What Hindus Should be Aware of

[vijisesh]

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Keep up the GOOD WORK guys !

May GOD Bless u !

 

[Kamakshi]

Dear Sri KRS and Sri Silverfox,

I just noticed! I meant 'guys' which turned out as 'guns'. This horrible typo error is truely regretted.

Regards,

 

[Chintana]

Thank you Sow Chintana for your suggestion. In return I should suggest that you too take care to be respectful to the members and not flaunt your powers to erase and kick people out. It is no way to run a successful fourm.

Dear Kamakshi,

After my explanations as there has been no response from you I take it that this allegation against me is baseless and was made without careful consideration of the what the job of the modertator entails.

As I mentioned earlier I hope any future requests to any moderator is made in a language and tone that reflects respect (for the good of the forum - not to massage the ego of the moderator as I have explained), failing which the moderators will have no choice but to do their job in establishing respect.

Thanks for giving me a chance to explain.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[silverfox]

Dear Chintana/Praveen:
Thank you both for the much-needed clarification on our site guidelines. Thank you, Chintana; boy! can you write!!

 

[Kamakshi]

Dear Chintana,

I told you that I do not want to engage in discussion with you because I considered it would be counter productive. You persisted and gave an ex parte judgement!

Have it your way. I would not be visiting this forum anymore.

 

[vijisesh]

On a deep thought

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri vijisesh Ji,

I can't believe it either! I thought you were having fun in this Forum and contributing!

I for one, have completely missed the use of 'stick' so to say or the admins being not fair. Especially, I did not see any negative comments thrown your way.

I think that the issue here is, if I may say so, that you think what Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji has said applied to you! But I can prove that she is quite fair - because I also thought that she was directing some of her words towards me! Her words are universal to the Forum and we can either take it right or wrong.

There is a different Forum, whose name I would not mention, which has the 'promotion of secular ideals' in it's charter, where the admins just act very capriciously. They remove anything they want if it is not siding with their own agenda. I do not see it in this Forum. I have only seen certain people removed because they were posting vulgar information. Those who can not abide by the very fair rules of this Forum, usually remove themselves.

I hope you are not one of them.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[hariharan1972]

My bit

There is a different Forum, whose name I would not mention, which has the 'promotion of secular ideals' in it's charter, where the admins just act very capriciously. They remove anything they want if it is not siding with their own agenda. I do not see it in this Forum.

Pranams,
KRS

I think i know the name of this forum. I am quite an active member there and i confirm what Sri KRS has to say.

Also to be noted is that they have an online moderation. So your posts dont appear till 24 hours !!!!!

The members who feel aggrieved could visit this forum (started by a very famous daughter who made it to the Upper house recently) and see the brazen anti-brahmin, anti-hindu tirade unleashed by some members. These *some members* include brahmins who now live in comfort in the West who have a pretty self-deprecating view about brahmanism.

Being self-critical is different from self-deprecating.

I think it is pertinent to point out what we are here for, atleast this is what i think -

a. Create a platform for our community to come together

b. Use our *collective financial resources* to make difference to the dis-advantaged sections of our community (wish to see it expanded to society god willing)

c. Fight for our legitimate rights or atleast create enought awareness (given our demographic constraints)

It is also appropriate to mention what are the *donts*. Point to be noted is that these *donts* are not words of gospel but something evolved thru conduct.

a. Not attack any other religion or community without justification.

b. Even if we have to, fight the person, incident rather than broad-brushing

c. Not give an impression of being / becoming xenophobic

So it is in this context that guidelines and some of the comments from the Moderators have to be looked into.

I find it sadly amusing that if we cannot agree on a common framework for discussions with the "shield of anonymity" intact, how will we ever work together ?

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri vijisesh Ji,

I can't believe it either! I thought you were having fun in this Forum and contributing!

I for one, have completely missed the use of 'stick' so to say or the admins being not fair. Especially, I did not see any negative comments thrown your way.

I think that the issue here is, if I may say so, that you think what Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji has said applied to you! But I can prove that she is quite fair - because I also thought that she was directing some of her words towards me! Her words are universal to the Forum and we can either take it right or wrong.

There is a different Forum, whose name I would not mention, which has the 'promotion of secular ideals' in it's charter, where the admins just act very capriciously. They remove anything they want if it is not siding with their own agenda. I do not see it in this Forum. I have only seen certain people removed because they were posting vulgar information. Those who can not abide by the very fair rules of this Forum, usually remove themselves.

I hope you are not one of them.

Pranams,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS,

Thanks for your testimony. Much appreciated.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

I think i know the name of this forum. I am quite an active member there and i confirm what Sri KRS has to say.

Also to be noted is that they have an online moderation. So your posts dont appear till 24 hours !!!!!

The members who feel aggrieved could visit this forum (started by a very famous daughter who made it to the Upper house recently) and see the brazen anti-brahmin, anti-hindu tirade unleashed by some members. These *some members* include brahmins who now live in comfort in the West who have a pretty self-deprecating view about brahmanism.

Being self-critical is different from self-deprecating.

I think it is pertinent to point out what we are here for, atleast this is what i think -

a. Create a platform for our community to come together

b. Use our *collective financial resources* to make difference to the dis-advantaged sections of our community (wish to see it expanded to society god willing)

c. Fight for our legitimate rights or atleast create enought awareness (given our demographic constraints)

It is also appropriate to mention what are the *donts*. Point to be noted is that these *donts* are not words of gospel but something evolved thru conduct.

a. Not attack any other religion or community without justification.

b. Even if we have to, fight the person, incident rather than broad-brushing

c. Not give an impression of being / becoming xenophobic

So it is in this context that guidelines and some of the comments from the Moderators have to be looked into.

I find it sadly amusing that if we cannot agree on a common framework for discussions with the "shield of anonymity" intact, how will we ever work together ?

Thanks, Hari.

I think a large part of the confusion for most posters comes from a lack of understanding of what moderators in a forum should do, and what moderators in this forum are doing. Hopefully my message clarified this at least to some extent.

Secondly, we as a community do not know how to value expertise and authority. In the US, for example, if an individual has a difference of opinion with any person holding any responsibility - including those holding what Indians would consider 'low level' jobs - bus drivers, government office interfaces - the person with responsibility will have the final say on the matter. If the individual is unsatisfied the complaint is usually registered as a feedback. A person who argues with authority is considered socially disruptive. The American system works so well because people are discouraged from arguing with authority - the reason being that people with authority are just executing their jobs. So there is a 'don't shoot the messenger' attitude.

In this forum we at the admin encounter so much of "who are you to tell me?" attitude. Well somebody has to direct the discussions, no? And somebody has to lay out what is ok and what is not ok in the process. As long as those rules conform to standards of reasonableness technically there shouldn't be a problem. I don't know why this simple thing is difficult to understand and respect, for some people. Point is, rules can be changed if deemed necessary. But its executors should not be attacked. They are just doing their job.

Thirdly, I am increasingly surprised at discovering how difficult it is for some people to apologize. I base this statement on the past year of experience I have had moderating this forum. To me, an apology is the most productive way of establishing trust. Everybody makes mistakes, including myself. There have been several occasions in my life when I realized I made a mistake and said sorry. An apology is a great way of providing closure to the person one has inadvertently offended. Again, I have seen this concept put to better use in the US. Our community definitely needs more of an open and learning attitude.

Let's hope we can move a little closer toward these goals.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[vijisesh]

I really appreciate the Good Work that is done

 

[Chintana]

Dear Chintana,

I told you that I do not want to engage in discussion with you because I considered it would be counter productive. You persisted and gave an ex parte judgement!

Have it your way. I would not be visiting this forum anymore.

Dear Kamakshi,

I am no one to stop you. And this is not "my way". What I established was the way of the forum, whether you understand that or not. I have taken a lot of trouble to explain myself (and the moderators) to you - what I/we do and why I/we do it - yet I don't see a shred of understanding in your words.

Please understand that no accusation against anybody WITHOUT proper reason, evidence or explanation will be tolerated in this forum.

Showing respect to posters (and moderators!) means that there should be focus on the issue, not attacks on the personality. I believe that any difference in opinion can be discussed by avoiding any description of the personality. If in your assessment you find the person having an undesirable quality PLEASE DO NOT BRING IT UP. Discussing people's inabilities and faults is not the objective of this forum. The focus should strictly be on the issue. We at the admin have been a bit unsure about how to bring this up with you.

None of us at the admin doubt the fact that you are a good person. But we have been consistently concerned at your lack of friendliness (very often rudeness) toward people you disagree with. One can disagree without getting flustered, without labeling, without getting angry and impatient. One can remain calm and present one's views. If those views are found to be solid by others they will adopt it. What any poster can do is to make sure that person gives sound reasons for her/his beliefs. And leave it at that. Posters will make up their own mind about what to do - nobody can tell anybody what to think.

We at the forum WANT TO accomodate all types of personalities within our community. We want to help everybody create space in their lives for everybody else in our community. We can disagree all we want but we want to establish at the end of the day that we are friends, that we are happy to have found an active section within our community that we can claim to belong to. Rudeness does not align with this objective.

Please realize that the discussions in the threads are all aimed at all of us getting to know one another only so that we can develop a welcoming attitude toward one another. Our geographical dispersal has made us into very different people with different views. We have become so different that I personally tend to think it is a miracle if a few Brahmins recognize any element of commonality in their thinking or ways of living. We are not a close knit community anymore. We are very different people!! Question is - can all of us still try to be friends? We value a "yes" to this answer more than establishing who is right or wrong about any given point of view.

Coming together is a very difficult thing to do given our conditions. We think the best we can do is to make people feel at home by being friendly. So your rudeness has been somewhat hard for me (and everybody at the admin) to understand.

For those of us in the US, this forum is like a proxy home. We like to feel that we are wanted. Rudeness and curtness don't help very much in creating that atmosphere.


Regards,
Chintana

 

[KRS]

Dear Friends,

I am not trying to belabour the point, but I think that as a community (TB/Hindu/Indians/Worl Citizens), it is very important for us to keep certain things in mind.

We are an emotional people. So, we sometimes use emotions to guide our actions. During such instances, we do not put a filter between our thoughts and our words. So, in the anonymity of the Net, we say things we perhaps may not say to a person's face. This is why, I have resolved from the early days of my postings on the Net that I would not change my 'handle' at all in any and all the discussions I am and will be part of. 'KRS' will remain 'KRS' everywhere. For me, this provides a self check on myself as I am building my online personna that should not be much different from my own being.

I consider myself a 'Virundhali' in every site that I am allowed to post my views on. As you all know, there are well developed norms for guests as well as hosts in our custom. A host will honour the guest almost like a God for gracing the host with his/her divine presence. Because the process of a guest and a host coming together is a miracle by itself, ordained by Him, for a purpose. In return of this venerable treatment by the host, the guest needs to abide by the house rules of the host. A guest, according to our custom, will not violate the sacred order of a host's home. He/she will only take what the host willingly gives, with gratitude.

The word that describes this common code of conduct is 'grace'. If one thinks about it, this is the foundation for the civilization for the entire humanity, as each one of us, in our lives, starting with our birth, play either of these roles. The civilization disappears if we break this simple code of conduct.

I am saying all this, because we need unity that can only be brought about if we analyze our roles within the context of this sacred bond. When one is angry and hurls abuse to another human being, two things happen. The above code of grace is gone and as such one violates one's own self of dignity. The next thing is the targeted person defends himself/herself instinctively and this defence will vary in it's force based on the aggreived person's spiritual development as an Atma. But just the same, two atmas are injured, and by corollary, all the living beings are injured.

Anyways, my two cents.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Dear Friends,

I am not trying to belabour the point, but I think that as a community (TB/Hindu/Indians/Worl Citizens), it is very important for us to keep certain things in mind.

We are an emotional people. So, we sometimes use emotions to guide our actions. During such instances, we do not put a filter between our thoughts and our words. So, in the anonymity of the Net, we say things we perhaps may not say to a person's face. This is why, I have resolved from the early days of my postings on the Net that I would not change my 'handle' at all in any and all the discussions I am and will be part of. 'KRS' will remain 'KRS' everywhere. For me, this provides a self check on myself as I am building my online personna that should not be much different from my own being.

I consider myself a 'Virundhali' in every site that I am allowed to post my views on. As you all know, there are well developed norms for guests as well as hosts in our custom. A host will honour the guest almost like a God for gracing the host with his/her divine presence. Because the process of a guest and a host coming together is a miracle by itself, ordained by Him, for a purpose. In return of this venerable treatment by the host, the guest needs to abide by the house rules of the host. A guest, according to our custom, will not violate the sacred order of a host's home. He/she will only take what the host willingly gives, with gratitude.

The word that describes this common code of conduct is 'grace'. If one thinks about it, this is the foundation for the civilization for the entire humanity, as each one of us, in our lives, starting with our birth, play either of these roles. The civilization disappears if we break this simple code of conduct.

I am saying all this, because we need unity that can only be brought about if we analyze our roles within the context of this sacred bond. When one is angry and hurls abuse to another human being, two things happen. The above code of grace is gone and as such one violates one's own self of dignity. The next thing is the targeted person defends himself/herself instinctively and this defence will vary in it's force based on the aggreived person's spiritual development as an Atma. But just the same, two atmas are injured, and by corollary, all the living beings are injured.

Anyways, my two cents.

Pranams,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS,

Thank you for your words.

You know, it gets much trickier if there is a social responsibility to be executed. Even if it is sometimes possible to "be above" any given situation on an individual level I am learning that social responsibility is - responsibility! It may involve decisions that one wouldn't execute on oneself. Because in a social responsibility situation an individual's behavior sets a precedent - it becomes the basis for attracting certain people over others for, more often than not there is a social need to explicitly see the execution of fairness. When a person with social responsibility says such things are ok, and such things are not - there arises a need to assign consequences when non-adherents break those codes. In other words, policing becomes important, the execution of which has to match the understanding of the person one is dealing with. It is definitely possible to be internally calm while executing the action but I don't know that the action itself can be avoided. I didn't see this point addressed in your posting. If you had indeed implied it, I apologize for not having understood.

It is not without reason that our shastras laid out the codes for people with responsibility (such as kings etc).

I am grateful for the training. I can only hope I am learning my lessons well.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[vijisesh]

Katrathu Kadugalavu ... Karkavendiyathu Ulagalavu !

Yes amidst "Natural Calamities ", "Extremists destruction" amongst "hatred ", "jealousy",
"evil thoughts and deeds " amongst all the Badness in the world ,
still the optimists in the world survive !

to preach a lesson ,
a lesson of truth,honesty , courage
a lesson of kindness, friendship ,
spreading the truth of happiness and joy
preaching good things !

Salutations to the creator of this universe who controls each and every moment of our lives!

Mr.KRS - thanks for ur message

U are a guest , so am I
Ulagam our vadagai veedu !

 

[KRS]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji,

What I wrote above applies to the primitive civilzed core of a human being. It is a starting point, a starting approach to any situation before assuming the social role.

For example, a King will approach his duties based on the dharma principles for his role as laid out in our scriptures, but even before that, to start with, he will recognize that he is a 'host' to his subjects. This, in my opinion would change his outlook on his role as a human being on this earth and make him a humble person, hopefully making him to understand that he is an instrument of the divine power.

So are our relationships to our parents, teachers etc., should start with this view. We are either 'givers' or 'takers' in life.

Starting with this premise, both our scriptures and Confucianism to a greater extent have defined the different interactive models in the society and have assigned 'duties'. But the starting point is the same. It is the basic human civility, borne of divinity.

In warfare involving a weapon, this is why it is clearly stated that if one draws the weapon, one should use it. The inference is that one should never draw a weapon on others unless one is ready to fully use that weapon (so avoiding anger). Such is the power of this basic divinity in all of us.

And there are rules governing the conduct of the administrator as well as the administratee, based on what is good for the society. And this is not only is unavoidable, but necessary. So when a 'guest' misbehaves, it is also the duty of the 'host' to correct. We all have heard of the 'buring of the bird by a gaze' story of Rishi Vishwamitra.

Hope this explains.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi Chintana Ji,

What I wrote above applies to the primitive civilzed core of a human being. It is a starting point, a starting approach to any situation before assuming the social role.

For example, a King will approach his duties based on the dharma principles for his role as laid out in our scriptures, but even before that, to start with, he will recognize that he is a 'host' to his subjects. This, in my opinion would change his outlook on his role as a human being on this earth and make him a humble person, hopefully making him to understand that he is an instrument of the divine power.

So are our relationships to our parents, teachers etc., should start with this view. We are either 'givers' or 'takers' in life.

Starting with this premise, both our scriptures and Confucianism to a greater extent have defined the different interactive models in the society and have assigned 'duties'. But the starting point is the same. It is the basic human civility, borne of divinity.

In warfare involving a weapon, this is why it is clearly stated that if one draws the weapon, one should use it. The inference is that one should never draw a weapon on others unless one is ready to fully use that weapon (so avoiding anger). Such is the power of this basic divinity in all of us.

And there are rules governing the conduct of the administrator as well as the administratee, based on what is good for the society. And this is not only is unavoidable, but necessary. So when a 'guest' misbehaves, it is also the duty of the 'host' to correct. We all have heard of the 'buring of the bird by a gaze' story of Rishi Vishwamitra.

Hope this explains.

Pranams,
KRS

Yes, it does.



Thank you.

 

[KRS]

Katrathu Kadugalavu ... Karkavendiyathu Ulagalavu !

Mr.KRS - thanks for ur message

U are a guest , so am I
Ulagam our vadagai veedu !

Sri vijisesh Ji,

Thank you. Yes, we are all guests in Ishvara's home of Samsara, where he has nine 'assistants' to delve out the fruits of action (either sweet or sour) based on our behaviour in His home.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[vanam9394]

Sri vijisesh Ji,

Thank you. Yes, we are all guests in Ishvara's home of Samsara, where he has nine 'assistants' to delve out the fruits of action (either sweet or sour) based on our behaviour in His home.

Pranams,
KRS

Dear KRS
You have summarized the whole concept of human life in couple of sentences. I was wondering how many people know this. Even the so-called brahmins who are supposed to be learned in sastra have no idea of all these. All they know is how to pull the leg of others so that they can step of their head. That is why the brahmin group is in a precariuos state now.

 

[vijisesh]

[FONT=&quot]The following is an interesting excerpt from the net ...

"The purpose of the Gita is not to give instructions on politics or military tactics. Rather it's aim is complete sharanagatiunto the lotus feet of Shri Krishna, the Supreme Absolute reality. The Gita seems to have been spoken for Arjuna's benefit. Actually however Arjuna is Bhagavan Shri Krishna's eternal associate and sakha, so he can never come under the spell of illusion. His apparent bewilderment was part of the dramatic performance which facilitated the advent of the Gita. It is understood from the statements of the Vedas: partho vatsa, "The advent of the Gitamrita is compared to the giving of milk, and Arjuna plays the part of the calf". This milk of the Gitamrita has not been given only for Arjuna's benefit, but for the whole of humanity. Shri Krishna Himself has said: mam ekam sharanam vraja. The import of the word ekam is to surrender only unto the supremely omnipotent Shri Krishna, and this is indeed the only conclusion of Gita-shastra.

and that being one of the reasons , it is difficult for human ego's to surrender, to a mortal !

[/FONT]

 

[KRS]

Dear KRS
You have summarized the whole concept of human life in couple of sentences. I was wondering how many people know this. Even the so-called brahmins who are supposed to be learned in sastra have no idea of all these. All they know is how to pull the leg of others so that they can step of their head. That is why the brahmin group is in a precariuos state now.

Dear Sowbhagyavathi vanam9394 Ji,

You are too kind. I have posted what I have read. I have no special knowledge. I think that lots of our brothers and sisters understand and probably live up to the message above. If not more.

I do not think that Hiduism is in any trouble. As usual, it is at an juncture in history where a revival will take it to it's roots. My own opinion.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[KRS]

[FONT=&quot]The following is an interesting excerpt from the net ...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"The purpose of the Gita is not to give instructions on politics or military tactics. Rather it's aim is complete sharanagatiunto the lotus feet of Shri Krishna, the Supreme Absolute reality. The Gita seems to have been spoken for Arjuna's benefit. Actually however Arjuna is Bhagavan Shri Krishna's eternal associate and sakha, so he can never come under the spell of illusion. His apparent bewilderment was part of the dramatic performance which facilitated the advent of the Gita. It is understood from the statements of the Vedas: partho vatsa, "The advent of the Gitamrita is compared to the giving of milk, and Arjuna plays the part of the calf". This milk of the Gitamrita has not been given only for Arjuna's benefit, but for the whole of humanity. Shri Krishna Himself has said: mam ekam sharanam vraja. The import of the word ekam is to surrender only unto the supremely omnipotent Shri Krishna, and this is indeed the only conclusion of Gita-shastra.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]and that being one of the reasons , it is difficult for human ego's to surrender, to a mortal ![/FONT]

Dear Sri vijisesh Ji,

Lord Krishna is an 'avatar', meaning that He is a Paramathma in a Jeevathma's garb.

Guess what! Our religion says that YOU are also the same - as quoted by yourself in your last posting: "Aham Brahmasmi".

Pranams,
KRS

 

[vijisesh]

Good thoughts Mr KRS,

Hinduism is never in any trouble !
Left to choice , it would be a worthwhile journey to " GET INTO the ROOTS!" (as u've mentioned ) of any study , as this will make one's faith " UNSHAKABLE ! ".
And ...never did Hinduism ask anyone to deep cruise into the Vedas and Upanishads !
One can be satisfied surfing on the surface , and so has been the case of many who do their duty and follow the guidelines of worship , as per their family sampradhaya !

Brahmins also need FOOD for survival , HAPPINESS for living, they are no exceptions!
and Darwin theory of FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL is more apt for us !

So first , let them come out of their grihasta after which they can proceed to vanaprastha and sanyasi stages !

One needs to have patience , till then !

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri vijisesh Ji,

You are correct. Every human being (according to our scriptures) has to follow the Ashrama Dharma. This is divided in to four dharmas (Karma, Artha, Dharma and Moksha). No use in becoming a vanaprastha when you are at a stage in life when you are supposed to accumulate wealth (artha).

Yes, our religion supports one even if that person does not want to delve in to Vedas and Upanishads. But, based on my own experience, when one is in the vanaprastha stage, one is thirsting to understand one's own heritage (I know what what Sri Naachi Ji wrote about heritage, but I mean the scriptures here).

So, yes. One should normally go through the four stages according to one's stage in life. There is no need for patience, because these four stages are designed to fit the stages that a human being goes through normally in their life cycle, viz., Brahmacharya, Grahastha, Vanaprastha and Sanyasin.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sri vijisesh Ji,

You are correct. Every human being (according to our scriptures) has to follow the Ashrama Dharma. This is divided in to four dharmas (Karma, Artha, Dharma and Moksha). No use in becoming a vanaprastha when you are at a stage in life when you are supposed to accumulate wealth (artha).

Yes, our religion supports one even if that person does not want to delve in to Vedas and Upanishads. But, based on my own experience, when one is in the vanaprastha stage, one is thirsting to understand one's own heritage (I know what what Sri Naachi Ji wrote about heritage, but I mean the scriptures here).

So, yes. One should normally go through the four stages according to one's stage in life. There is no need for patience, because these four stages are designed to fit the stages that a human being goes through normally in their life cycle, viz., Brahmacharya, Grahastha, Vanaprastha and Sanyasin.

Pranams,
KRS

Thank you, KRS.

A small addenda. Though Vanaprastha is for study and contemplation, in the present context I would also include service to humanity. As Swami Vivekananda said "Service to Humanity is service to God."

There are zillions of ways of serving your fellow human beings. Though we are expected to do this service throughout our life, we may not get time or have the patience to do it in the early stages of life.

So in Vanaprastha stage we should concentrate on this service in addition to study and contemplation.