What Hindus Should be Aware of

[Amoorkan]

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There are so many things happening that affect us the Hindus and I propose to bring them to the attention of the fellow members. I am asking everyone to post things that are happening around that affect the lives and heritage of the Hindus.

The Culture Butchers
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=143&page=6

Culture Minister Ambika Soni (a christian) has a funny idea. According to a report in The Asian Age, she is contemplating opening up heritage monuments to hold cultural events. The plea is, it would help raise much needed resources for the restoration of dilapidated historical structures and sites lying in ruins. Few weeks ago, it was reported that the Ministry was surrendering budget allocation as unutilised funds. Paucity of funds for restoration is the rationale for the new venture. Clearly, there is a mismatch. Opening-up of heritage sites for public events will not only pose a danger to the structure but also spoil the sanctity of the monuments. The conservationists are mortified at the idea. The Archaeological Survey of India is not doing as much as it should.

It has been decades since the ASI was headed by an archaeologist. IAS officers have been repeatedly nominated to the post. This has caused resentment among professionals. The National Culture Fund, set up with a very purpose of attracting resources from private sources and corporate houses to upkeep monuments, is a defunct body. But letting out heritage sites for functions is like converting the precious monuments into ‘baraat ghar.’

The Congress-led government at the Centre has carried politics into even such areas as culture, art, science and academics. Ever since the UPA came to power it has been attempting to undo some real good work done by the NDA. Underwater exploration at Dwarka, revamping Ajanta to protect it from tourism-related degradation, launching a search for the lost river Saraswati, mapping pilgrimage tourism, giving face-lift to monuments like the Humayun’s Tomb and launching the National Mission for Manuscripts are few among the many measures taken by the NDA.

On its part, the UPA has gone about killing each of these initiatives. The National Museum, the Archaeological Survey of India, the National Archives and the state archives and museums under the Centre’s control have all been reduced in this short period of time by the UPA into routine, file-pushing government offices. The latest to join the morass is the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, which has been headless for over a year. IAS officers head most of the art and culture institutions or some IAS officer in the ministry holds the additional charge.

Under pressure from the communists, the government abandoned the Saraswati project. The communists opposed it only because it boasted of a Hindu heritage. Similarly, the under-water explorations off Dwarka, Krishna’s karmabhoomi, were at a crucial phase and the government held back its support and funding. In any other country, this project would have received national support and immense political patronage.

Gone are the heady days of cultural exchange, youth festivals and ‘apna utsav,’ which promoted the live cultures of different regions in India. In less than three years, the Ministry of Culture has seen two ministers and three secretaries. The current incumbent Ambika Soni has been sent to safeguard the interests of the Gandhi family in all the cultural institutions in India. Which, when translated into action, means reappointing the members and the coterie of the Gandhi family into the art institutions, from where they were legally and rightly removed by the NDA government.

In India, pilgrims account for the maximum number of tourists. Criss-crossing the country, people from one region reach another for prescribed rituals and fulfilling traditions. The Vajpayee government, in an effort to augment this travels, introduced the pilgrimage tourism routes. For instance, the places mentioned in the Ramayana are still the revered places, whether it is Panchmarhi, Chitrakoot, Ayodhya or Mithila. The project envisaged offering package tours that would cover the Ramayana region, converging at Rameshwaram. The idea was not only innovative in tourism, it strengthened the bonds of nationalism. The project has been unceremoniously dumped.

The committee to plan celebrations of the 150th anniversary of the First War of Indian Independence (it's still being described as ‘mutiny’ in most of the communist historian-authored NCERT books) has such huge numbers as its members that there is no way it can have any cohesive discussion or decision. One committee meeting would be nearly as big as a public rally, that’s the joke going around in the bureaucratic corridors. Giving more comic relief in the matter is the demand by A.B. Bardhan of the CPI to include the name of Karl Marx in the festivities. He reportedly argued in one of the meetings that Marx was opposed to imperialism and in his writings he spoke of the economic factors behind the 1857 revolt. Very original, Mr. Bardhan. But he committed a bigger sin, in comparing Veer Savarkar with Marx, saying if the former could be part of it, why not the latter?

The government is changing laws to accommodate Sonia Gandhi in the Jalianwala Bagh Memorial Trust. Fitting tribute it would be for the memory of the freedom fighters that a foreigner becomes the chairperson of the governing body.

According to reports, the Ministry of Culture is surrendering to the government funds unutilised, while several institutions are crying for help for revival. The Sangeet Natak Academy and Lalit Kala Academy, once buzzing with action, are now lifeless. The National Museum has not held any major exhibition for the past three years. Even the annual awards for artistes are so much steeped in politics.

While Arjun Singh goes around butchering the education department, political interference is harming the culture ministry. The National Culture Policy has not seen the light of day. New proposals to allow private participation in up-keeping of monuments have not been pursued. The National Culture Fund is a defunct set up. Art is an area that needs government patronage sans politics.

 

[Amoorkan]

RAISE A TOAST TO JUDGE KODE!

The verdict given by TADA Judge P.D. Kode on the 1993 Mumbai serial bomb blasts should be etched in gold. In all 100 people have been convicted on various counts ranging from terrorism to waging war against the country to illegal possession of weapons of mass destruction. Over 257 innocent lives were lost in the blasts in Mumbai.

The Special TADA Court had awarded the death sentence to Yakub Memon, the brother of prime accused Tiger Memon, in connection with the 1993 Mumbai blast case earlier in July. The other two Memon brothers, Essa, Yusuf, and Tiger Memon’s sister-in-law Rubina were given life sentences and all had been convicted of abetment and conspiracy in the serial blasts. Interestingly, in this case Tiger Memon has been declared absconding, while his father Abdul Razzak Memon passed away during the trial. After the trial Kode gave death sentences to 12 of the convicts. But along with Sanjay Dutt, Yusuf Nullwala was given a five-year imprisonment term while Kersi Adajenia was given two years of imprisonment. Russi Mulla, on the other hand, was granted probation. They had been held guilty of a lesser offence under the Arms Act, and not under TADA.

They had all sought their release on probation on grounds of good conduct. According to the Probation of Offenders Act, a person convicted of any offence other than the one punishable with death or life imprisonment, can be released on probation instead of serving the sentence in prison. In all, 20 including the three Memon family members have been given life sentences. Ezas Pathan was sentenced to ten years imprisonment. But he died on June 15 after prolonged illness. Eleven of the accused were given seven to eight years of rigorous imprisonment. Amongst the others, 16 were awarded rigorous imprisonment for 10 to 14 years. Two women— Zaibunnisa Quazi and Mubina Bhiwandiwala—were also sentenced to five years in jail. Five others have been awarded three years sentence for providing vehicles and aiding transportation of arms. But Sanjay Dutt’s involvement generated all the hype and controversies. Sanjay Dutt was booked for possessing an AK-56 rifle which came in a consignment of arms and explosives meant for the Mumbai serial blasts. This happened almost two months before the blasts took place and Sanjay Dutt should have informed the police if he was just a mute bystander. Kode had awarded sentences to two convicts who had supplied arms to Sanjay Dutt. On June 1, Samir Hingora, the man who supplied the AK-56 rifle to Sanjay Dutt, was awarded nine years’ rigorous imprisonment. Dhakla, who removed the rifle from Dutt’s house, was awarded 10 years imprisonment.

This case also gained significance because it was the first terrorist attack on Mumbai city. But ever since the police found the involvement of film-star Sanjay Dutt the investigations and the trial proceedings have been in public limelight. The on-going endless debates and arguments on the legalities had been closely watched even by the international community and foreign media. And hence, Kode’s judgement will be commended for its no-nonsense verdict.

Kode’s verdict only helped to prove that India is not a soft state. The media and its kangaroo court had absolved Sanjay Dutt of all his crimes but the political pressure on the case has been unbelievable. And nowhere in the reports there was even a passing reference to the fact that Sanjay Dutt is the brother of Congress MP Priya Dutt. Nor was there any mention of criminalisation of politics. Just after the court sentenced Sanjay Dutt to a six-year term in jail Union Information & Broadcasting Minister P.R. Dasmunsi expressed deep shock and surprise at the judgement.

He felt that Sanjay Dutt had suffered enough for unintentional faults. It was almost as if Sanjay Dutt had only been caught for traffic violation. The TADA Judge has been cut and dry while sentencing Sanjay Dutt. “If you don’t respect the law, don’t expect a pardon.” Merely having guns showed scant respect for law, he added. The Judge also rejected Dutt’s application for benefit under the Probation of Offenders Act (POA) while stating that Sanjay Dutt is not a first-time offender. Sanjay had bought a pistol from one Quyum. According to Kode, Dutt’s acts were imminently dangerous and showed a high element of criminality.

During the course of the trial film actor of yesteryears Dilip Kumar had filed an affidavit in the court along with former Sheriff of Mumbai Nana Chudasama giving a character certificate to Sanjay Dutt. Kode was almost contemptuous of the affidavit while saying that the affidavits are of no use if there is material evidence of criminal act. Even before the dust could settle reports of political pressure bearing upon the case came to light. It is not a mere coincidence that Congress MP Priya Dutt is the sister of Sanjay. Former Police Commissioner M.N. Singh in an interview to a leading daily talked about how Sunil Dutt had approached him to refer the trial of his son Sanjay to a regular court and not a TADA court. But Singh made it clear that it would be inconsistent with the on-going judicial process to refer Sanjay to a regular court as over 100 accused in the case were booked under Arms Act along with Sanjay. But the most shocking revelation has come from a morning tabloid in Mumbai which told a story of how the then Prime Minister Narasimha Rao had tried to influence the course of the trial by sending the then CBI director K. Vijaya Rama Rao to the then TADA Judge J.N. Patel. Rao had sought to remove Sanjay Dutt from the TADA charges. Sunil Dutt had even met Shiv Sena chief Balasaheb Thackeray, which was widely reported as a turning point in political equations in the state. Hence, we should raise a toast to Kode’s audacious judgement on the longest trial in the world on a terrorist attack.
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=196&page=2

 

[Amoorkan]

Rural Bengal in the grip of Islamic hot-heads
By Ranjit Roy The ruling CPI(M)’s policy to acquire farm land for setting up high profile industries is slowly but steadily eroding party’s nearly 30-year-long Muslim vote bank in rural Bengal. This is evident after the humiliating defeat in Panshkura and later losing seven seats to the Opposition combine in closely contested Haldia municipal elections in east Midnapore on July 22. Although the CPM-CPI combine have retained its authority over the civic body by bagging 19 of 26 seats, this was far from the clean sweep of winning all the 26 seats in 2002 elections.

But the fact that has either been ignored or gone unnoticed by the media so far is the sudden and steady rise of a new extremist Muslim force in Bengal under Siddiqullah Chowdhury’s religious outfit Jamiat-e-Ulema Hind. Many fear that Jamiat’s involvement in political power sharing may lead in near future to sharp communal divide during the Panchayat elections early next year. Siddiqullah has floated his own political party, “People’s Democratic Council of India” (PDCI), on the eve of Haldia civic body election. The Jamiat, which for the first time entered into the fray under the banner of its political front PDCI, contested on two seats in Haldia election and bagged one seat. In fact, Siddiqullah waited for a long to unite Bengal Muslims and turn them into a formidable political force totally independent from the mainstream of Indian politics. He is consciously following the Muslim politics of the late Fazlul Haq and his Krishak Praja Party in the thirties. Like Siddiqullah’s PDCI, the late Haq’s party had initially aspired for a non-communal role only to gather support from both Muslim and Hindu communities. Fazlul Haq was an ever shifting leader—one day he was populist and secular and the other day he was a Muslim with a harsh communal antipathy to the Hindus. Haq’s so-called secular Muslim politics had later led to the infamous “Great Calcutta Killings” under the support of his political friend Sahid Suhrawardy when at least 5000 Hindus in the city were brutally killed during the first two days of Muslim League’s Direct Action to get Muslim homeland Pakistan. The wounded were five times more than the number killed.

Siddiqullah fielded two candidates—one Hindu and the other Muslim woman—in wards—14 and 15 respectively. Strangely, the Hindu candidate, Shankar Prasad Jana, did not get support of the local Muslim voters and lost to the CPI(M)’s Muslim candidate Sheikh Muzzafar by a considerable margin in Muslim-dominated ward 14. But the PDCI’s Muslim candidate Murshida Bibi had no difficulty to win the ward 15 defeating the CPI(M) candidate. Abdus Samad, spokesman of the Jamiat, said, “We entered the electoral politics for the first time and the electorate of Haldia has proved we are not a communal party although CPI(M) has launched a propaganda saying so.”

The CPI(M)’s strategy, on the other hand, to tackle the rise of Jamiat as its political foe is by pursuing the policy of appeasement of Muslim community. The party has directed the government officials not to acquire land belonging to Muslims, a quick development activities aimed at the Muslim community only and to distribute a better compensation package for Muslim farmers than to Hindu farmers. It is evident from the strategy that the party is planning to follow the age-old British policy of divide-and-rule by targeting only Hindu majority areas for acquisition of land for the proposed SEZs and also by offering better compensation packages for Muslims if a few of them are evicted for setting up industries. The CPI(M) think-tank believes that such discrimination will only jeopardize the fragile unity of the Opposition and confuse the Jamiat’s rank and files.

The rise of Jamiat and Siddiqullah Chowdhury in Bengal politics is a warning signal for both the ruling Left Front and its Opposition. In 2006, no one was aware of the presence of Siddiqullah Chowdhury and his Jamiat in Bengal. Today, no media house will ignore his press conferences or meetings as he is now regarded, rightly or wrongly, as a voice of Bengal Muslims. Thanks to the Bengal Chief Minister, Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee and his party bosses for calling Jamiat a dangerous communal force, which in fact, has helped the Jamiat leader to play with Muslim sentiments. He has told the rural Muslims that by declaring Jamiat a communal force the Chief Minister is now talking like the BJP leader, L. K. Advani. This has touched and swayed the rural Muslims under the flag of Jamiat. The Shahi Imam of Kolkata’s oldest Nakhoda Masjid, Maulana Muhammad Shafique, has already extended his full support to Siddiqullah Chowdhury and his Jamiat saying, “I find nothing wrong with Jamiat fighting for the Muslims’ cause. The Chief Minister should refrain from making comments that hurt the Muslim sentiments”. No doubt, Jamiat has tested blood at Haldia. Now Jamiat is eyeing not only for the next Panchayat polls but beyond it to the real power centre in Kolkata. (VSK Feature Service)
Results of Haldia Municipal Elections, 2007
Total Seats: - 26
CPM-CPI Combine: - 19
Trinamul Congress: - 06
Jamiat-backed PDCI: - 01

Results in 2002 election
CPM-CPI Combination: - 26
Opposition: - 0

 

[suresh*]

Problem is, the avg. hindu isn't bothered about any of this. He is more interested in acquiring the latest cellphone, getting a bonus, a hot date, and so forth. Tell him about any of this, and he'll blame the 'hindu fundamentalists' for being paranoid. Tell him about mumbai blasts, he'll blame the riots. Tell him about any of the hundreds of terrorist attacks, and he'll blame them all on gujarat.:dizzy:

This is the avg. hindu for you, and no amount of information campaign is gonna change his mindset. Lack of awareness is not the problem here, it's the hindu's stern refusal to face facts, and instead twist them to blame his community, as he often does wrt terrorist attacks (by referring to gujarat or babri as the cause, indirectly absolving the peaceful muslim community of all responsibility).

 

[Amoorkan]

You are sooooooo right Suresh. No one could have put it as succinctly as you have done. Hats off to you!

With Warm Regards,

 

[gurumurthyji]

We ought to know more !!

Brahmins, particularly Tamil Brahmins need to understand and discuss many more things sir. From the 2001 population survey of India and the speeches or writings of many learned economic pundits you will notice that more than 50% of the population is young. Most of them are in an economically sound position. In other words they are cash rich, consumers waiting to buy everything. Now it is global business sir, purely potential market sir. This boom and super power slogan is for what? To lure the gullible, young and cash rich population!!

Look what they want sir? Our hard work of 12hrs x 7 days in return for a good pay !! And lure them with every good thing in life to spend. And again Look who is selling? We are not ready with any big business ideas. Not even the massive methodology of garbage cleaning. So from vegetable to even water MNCs are collecting back your earnings. Stock market, futures & options, currency trading or car making any and in every possible way you pay back to them. When they bring their money it is 46 rupees and when they wish to take back it will be 30 or 33.

Then this health business. They offered this chemicals, fertilizers and pesticides. They said you need milk you don’t need fat etc. etc. Now every one above 40-45 is a diabatic. Every patent right of medicine for now and for the future is ready with them. No cholesterol and therefore your heart is o.k. But this other fertilizers and chemicals have spoiled your pancreases, lever and kidney. From the year 2011 or 2022 this well earning population of 6% is going to be retired or non earning. Their children will be in abroad earning. There will be no body to help them on day to day work and they continue to spend for the repair of their body parts and live a long life. Here again we have no plan and they will be ready with business models to continue to lure us.

What is that our IITs IIMs and P.hd s are going to do? What is the best way we can think for the future. You can not suddenly stop the happenings. But you can be wise enough to have alternative model ? Some thing I thought I should write. There are some good thinkers, like Sri. Hari Sir, Sri.LQ Sir and many others among us to present this in a more articulate way. Please do write sir.

Why this Silence? Let some one write who are we? That is really very good to understand the reality and to think of a win win situation.. And some others also write whom be belong. That is also nice and a good guidance. Amoorkan Sir, good idea you gave us a timely reminder what we ought to know? Ultimately if our community benefits that is the greatest pleasure for me!!

gurumurthyji

 

[Amoorkan]

Thank you Sri Gurumurthyji. Here is a news item that makes me wonder if Newton was a plagiarist and a hijacker of Indian wisdom.

Newton's Infinite Series: We heard it in Malayalam first
Tuesday August 14 2007 00:00 IST NEW DELHI: A group of Malayali scholars had predated a ground-breaking Newton 'discovery' by over 250 years, according a research paper published on Monday.

The team of researchers from the Universities of Manchester and Exeter reveal that the 'Kerala School' identified the 'infinite series'- one of the basic components of calculus - in about 1350.

The discovery is currently - and wrongly - attributed in books to Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibnitz," says Dennis Almeida, one of the researchers and Teaching Fellow at the School of Education. The research team says that the Kerala School also discovered what amounted to the Pi series and used it to calculate Pi correct to 9, 10 and later 17 decimal places.

And there is strong circumstantial evidence that the Indians passed on their discoveries to mathematically knowledgeable Jesuit missionaries who visited India during the fifteenth century.

That knowledge, they argue, may have eventually been passed on to Newton himself.

In fact Dr George Gheverghese Joseph, one of the researcher and Honorary Reader, School of Education at The University of Manchester came to know of the ancient discovery while trawling through obscure Indian papers for a yet to be published third edition of his best selling book 'The Crest of the Peacock: the Non-European Roots of Mathematics' by Princeton University Press.

He said: "The beginnings of modern maths is usually seen as a European achievement but the discoveries in medieval India between the fourteenth and sixteenth centuries have been ignored or forgotten.

"The brilliance of Newton's work at the end of the seventeenth century stands undiminished - especially when it came to the algorithms of calculus.

"But other names from the Kerala School, notably Madhava and Nilakantha, should stand shoulder to shoulder with him as they discovered the other great component of calculus- infinite series.

"There were many reasons why the contribution of the Kerala school has not been acknowledged - a prime reason is neglect of scientific ideas emanating from the Non-European world - a legacy of European colonialism and beyond.

"But there is also little knowledge of the medieval form of the local language of Kerala, Malayalam, in which some of most seminal texts, such as the Yuktibhasa, from much of the documentation of this remarkable mathematics is written."

He added: "For some unfathomable reasons, the standard of evidence required to claim transmission of knowledge from East to West is greater than the standard of evidence required to knowledge from West to East.

"Certainly it's hard to imagine that the West would abandon a 500-year-old tradition of importing knowledge and books from India and the Islamic world. But we've found evidence which goes far beyond that: for example, there was plenty of opportunity to collect the information as European Jesuits were present in the area at that time. They were learned with a strong background in maths and were well versed in the local languages. And there was strong motivation: Pope Gregory XIII set up a committee to look into modernising the Julian calendar."

On the committee was the German Jesuit astronomer/mathematician Clavius who repeatedly requested information on how people constructed calendars in other parts of the world.

The Kerala School was undoubtedly a leading light in this area. Similarly there was a rising need for better navigational methods including keeping accurate time on voyages of exploration and large prizes were offered to mathematicians who specialised in astronomy.

Again, there were many such requests for information across the world from leading Jesuit researchers in Europe. Kerala mathematicians were hugely skilled in this area.

 

[Amoorkan]

Six killed in group attack in Tenkasi
Chennaionline.com

Chennai, August 14: Six persons were killed in Tenkasi in Tirunelveli district today when a group attacked them in retaliation for the murder of a local Hindu outfit leader last December, police said here.

Five persons were seriously injured in the attack in the town in Tirunelveli district, police said.

Ruling out involvement of any particular community behind the killing of the six persons, Tirunelveli Range DIG P Kannappan said it was a "retaliatory action" to avenge the murder of a Hindu Munnani leader last year.

Earlier, District Collector G Prakash cited "religious ideologies" behind the clash but declined to elaborate.

“We have informed the government and are awaiting instructions," he told newspersons.

With tension prevailing in the town, he did not rule out the possibility of imposing curfew to stabilise the situation but said state government clearance was being awaited.

The group attacked the victims with sickles, Kannappan said.

He said those killed were accused in the murder of Hindu Munnani leader Kumar Pandian.

“It is purely a retaliatory attack and those killed are the accused and their family members," he said. However, the identity of the deceased was yet to be ascertained.

While four persons were killed on the spot, two died in the hospital, he said, adding the injured had also been hospitalised.

Security has been beefed up in the town to prevent any untoward incidents.

 

[Chintana]

Awareness for action?

Dear Sri Amoorkan,

Thank you for the informative postings on this thread. Reading through them I did feel quite worried.

I worried for a couple of reasons:

The 'attack' on Hinduism is not new. But bringing up such issues are sensitive and we need to deal with them carefully. Discussing such points without proposing action plans for what we can do about them not only creates worry, anxiety and helplessness but it produces a suspicion tinged on hatred towards other religious groups and sects.

While we should be aware of what others are doing it is important that we discuss strategies that are aimed at a solution. Otherwise readers will be left with a sense of worry and alarm which is not healthy considering they have to deal with several members of different religious and social groups in their day-to-day lives.

So if you must post items along the lines of the ones you have posted I strongly encourage you to discuss action plans that each of us as individuals can do to mitigate the problem.

Otherwise such issues will dwindle into the area of mere sensationalism promoting helplessness and anguish. We don't have to go there. The news media is there to do that for us.

Our forum is a group that is active enough and bright enough to discuss what to do about such things. I trust you will steer the discussion toward more of 'what we can do about it' instead of merely focusing on 'Oh! This is happening to us because other religious groups are out to get us'.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Amoorkan]

Dear Smt. Chintana,

Before I say anything I need a clarification from you since you have two hats to wear. Are these comments from you are those of the Administrator (I do not exactly know the role of an Administrator, perhaps I and other members would like to be informed so we know who we are vis a vis the administrator) or are these personal opinions of you just like that of any other member?

Thank you in advance,

 

[Chintana]

Dear Smt. Chintana,

Before I say anything I need a clarification from you since you have two hats to wear. Are these comments from you are those of the Administrator (I do not exactly know the role of an Administrator, perhaps I and other members would like to be informed so we know who we are vis a vis the administrator) or are these personal opinions of you just like that of any other member?

Thank you in advance,

Thank you for your questions/comments. I am glad to clarify.

Please address me as Chintana. Please do not use the prefix Smt. If you'd like to use a prefix I prefer the full or abbreviated version of Sowbhagyavati (Sow.).

These are my views as an Administrator/Moderator.

The role of the admin/moderator in this forum is to see to it that any discussion stays productive, which includes seeing to it that the language is kept free of abuses, that the tone of the posting does not offend anybody, and that the issues discussed promote a respectful co-existence with other communities. We want to provide a basis for strengthening our community's identity but do not want to indulge in sentiments that promote hatred and other negative feelings along religious and communal lines. We want to promote the development of solutions to our problems because we want the community to do well by getting along.

The issues you have raised are important ones and they need serious consideration. For anything concrete to be initiated against other religious groups the Hindus must first come together - not enough if just the Brahmins unite. Uniting all Hindu communities under a single umbrella is beyond the scope of this forum. We are interested in encouraging ideas about what we as Brahmins (amongst Hindus) can do to do our part in dealing with such complex issues.

Is there a progressive/modern way of dealing with such problems effectively? Such ideas can have ancient roots but they should be workable. They should promote a sense of camaraderie and responsibility (within our community and with others).

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Amoorkan]

Chintana,

Can't have any difference of opionion on MOST of what you have said. Tell me what exactly irks you. What prompts you to write what you wrote. Little more detail would make every one understand your point.

Regards,

 

[Chintana]

Chintana,

Can't have any difference of opionion on MOST of what you have said. Tell me what exactly irks you. What prompts you to write what you wrote. Little more detail would make every one understand your point.

Regards,

Dear Amoorkan,

I thought I mentioned this in my earlier posting. Nothing 'irked' me, just that I found something missing - i.e., a strategy or an action plan about what we can do.

The 'respectful co-existence with other communities' sentiment is not promoted by your postings in their current form. We are left with a sense of worry in our minds (I am taking the liberty of speaking for other posters who have responded to your postings as they have expressed this sentiment in some way) and a sense of suspicion toward other religious groups. That's hardly grounds for establishing respect for others. We need to be able to call attention to the problems they are causing, certainly. But how? More importantly, we'd like to be able to figure out how to solve them. We would like to direct our energies to things that CAN be done and to this extent are interested in encouraging questions/problems that help us understand what we can do.

Is the suggestion for an action plan necessary for every type of issue presented? No. Just for the ones that 'highlight' communal, religious and sectarian problems. We don't want readers feeling anguished AND helpless. If presenting such 'awareness' articles is meant to grab attention ONLY then let's leave it to the media. We'd like to see something a little more than awareness. Time to start acting. We as a community have gotten too used to feeling like we are getting beaten and can do nothing about it. We are interested in promoting the sentiment that something can be done and it can be done by all of us.

Thanks for your questions once again. I am happy to have had the chance to clarify.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Amoorkan]

Dear Chintana,

You have said:

"The 'respectful co-existence with other communities' sentiment is not promoted by your postings in their current form."

How so? I reread my postings and I have to respectfully disagree with you. The truth I speak of concerning our existence as a community of Brahmins which is integral to the larger community of Hindus emphasizes that there is a threat to our existence as a society, as a culture, as a civilization and so on. It is the truth and no one can say it is false.

You have said:

"Discussing such points without proposing action plans for what we can do about them not only creates worry, anxiety and helplessness but it produces a suspicion tinged on hatred towards other religious groups and sects."


I do have solutions but we are still enumerating and why stop it? What is the hurry? I am being told in words to the effect "We know what you are saying and will say hereafter. Just say what you have to do about it." I am in effect asked not to tell this truth, past and present as they happen. Why is the truth being made a Casualty? What is our agenda?

You have said:

“We are left with a sense of worry in our minds (I am taking the liberty of speaking for other posters who have responded to your postings as they have expressed this sentiment in some way) and a sense of suspicion toward other religious groups. That's hardly grounds for establishing respect for others."

I am glad you admit that it makes you worried and scared. Of course you and I and all of us have to worry and be scared about these things because it affects our existence, our culture and our purushaartha and our posterity. I thought excepting for one all other participants shared MY views. Even with Sri KRS we have no basic difference and I think that includes you too. As I read the postings of everyone the only issue that Sri KRS really have with me is on 'secularism'. He wants what is practiced in India to be called 'pseudo-secularism' and that pure 'secularism' is his aim. I had already asked him as to who would extricate this 'secularism' from these 'pseudos' and what is the guarantee that whatever comes out from such extrication will not be a washed out version of the same 'pseudo'-secularism. The Indian constitution which declares itself as 'secular' has brought about a political culture which Sri KRS wants to call it as 'pseudo-secularism' whereas my contention is that it has to be the chip of the same block, i.e. if the constitution is secular what it had bred viz. the political culture is the same thing. Apart from the verbal duel on the nomenclature, I don't think there is much of a difference between what he and I say on the content. Sri Silverfox, another moderator has rightly observed this. I have already said that I am not an opponent of all that is positive that is attributed to 'secularism' but merely pointed out that our own Dharma contains these positives and much more. In fact it is our Dharma that let the aliens to come in and prosper but they misused our gesture. We were tyrannized and enslaved, robbed and left for penury. What was the Industiral Workshop of the World became a basket case. All because we lowered our guard. As Dr. Swamy in one of his electrifying speech at Wilfrid Laurier University on the topic of ‘Emerging Economies – India and China’ declared that we are reasserting our rightful place. He detailed how the Nehruvian secularists with their socialist slogan had ruined the stride of progress with their authoritarianism that left us begging for food. When Sri Narasimha Rao a south Indian Brahmin who as the Prime Minister had to send a plane load of gold to be sold in Tokyo to buy food grains, he felt it was time to throw out the secularist-socialist economy and bring about the market economy that instantly propelled India on its road to development. So why sacrifice the greater one for getting a lesser one. It would make no sense. Sri KRS and I concur that Dr.Subramanian Swamy has the answer to the problem of the present day ills, but what consternated me was that at the very criticism of Sri Hari, comments came up saying Sri Swamy is not a man of reliable words. I felt that the 'baby was thrown out with the bath water'. I felt of the observation that the LTTE was against Dr.Swamy because he called them 'the international paraiah' was hitting below the belt for the LTTE is dead against Dr.Swamy only because as Law Minister he banned the LTTE which was trying to turn Tamilnadu into another Kashmir with these Dravidian outfits playing into their hands. Dr. Swamy is indeed the saviour of Tamilnadu and that our own fellow Brahmins. But in their sheer hippocracy of non-involvement our folks did not recognize his greatest contribution to their very survival. (Pl. read Sri Suresh's succinct observation of modern mindset of our folks which I am trying to change). If the non-Brahmins have been hijacked by the Dravidian outfits, to play anti-Hindu such as slapping false case on revered Acharyas and throwing them into jail with murderous criminals even when the Supreme Court has opined that there is no prima facie case. So why should we follow these secularists? This was my query. Happily Sri Hari withdrew his remarks against Dr. Subramanian Swamy. Such is the result of the enumeration of facts. We should never avoid it. I say to you not to narrowly read our forum's mission statement to shove things under the carpet and pretend that everything is fine and dandy. If we do that we would be making a deadly mistake. In my opinion the mission statement warns against wanton denigration of other religions and cultures and castes and communities. Only an uncivilized person would indulge in such wantonness. Our Dharma ensures the purushaartha of everyone, Hindu or non-Hindu, so long as the non-Hindu gives up their cardinal principle that being a Hindu is a sin and they are duty bound to destroy the 'sinners'.

You have said:

"We need to be able to call attention to the problems they are causing, certainly."

Thank you Chintana for stating clearly and emphatically. If we discourage the 'calling attention' to these vital problems then it would pose a dichotomy between what we say and what we do.

You have said:

"Is the suggestion for an action plan necessary for every type of issue presented? No. Just for the ones that 'highlight' communal, religious and sectarian problems. We don't want readers feeling anguished AND helpless. If presenting such 'awareness' articles is meant to grab attention ONLY then let's leave it to the media. We'd like to see something a little more than awareness. Time to start acting. We as a community have gotten too used to feeling like we are getting beaten and can do nothing about it. We are interested in promoting the sentiment that something can be done and it can be done by all of us."

Bravo! Chintana! I love it! I know you have said "Uniting all Hindu communities under a single umbrella is beyond the scope of this forum. We are interested in encouraging ideas about what we as Brahmins (amongst Hindus) can do to do our part in dealing with such complex issues." I agree we as a forum are not 'leaders' of the unity movement but we are a willing and earnest participants. We are like the squirral that helped build Rama Sethu.

In summary, I say: Yes it is new to become aware and assimilate the threat to our religion, culture and civilization because we have been sleep walking all along. We should not be scared of the enumeration for without such enumeration the solutions could get belittled and slip out of our grasp. For such of those who are anxious to know the end of the thriller I suggest you should read Dr. Subramanian Swamy's best seller "Hindus under Seige - the Way Out"!

Regards,
Amoorkan

P.S: If you as a moderator/administrator still think that my views are unacceptable please say so and I would not disturb your forum with my postings.

 

[Chintana]

Dear Sri Amoorkan,

I have to respond to your posting in parts as your response is quite long. Do bear with me.

Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Response to Amoorkan - I

Dear Amoorkan,

My responses are in maroon italics below.

Dear Chintana,

You have said:

"The 'respectful co-existence with other communities' sentiment is not promoted by your postings in their current form."

How so?

Because you haven't mentioned concrete action plans for us. We've been over this point at least a couple of times.

I reread my postings and I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Hope this time my communication was clearer.

The truth I speak of concerning our existence as a community of Brahmins which is integral to the larger community of Hindus emphasizes that there is a threat to our existence as a society, as a culture, as a civilization and so on. It is the truth and no one can say it is false.

Nobody is arguing about the truth of your posting, Sri Amoorkan. I certainly, am not. Even in my earlier postings I did not deny that there exists a threat.

So what you've mentioned is true.

But what I've mentioned is true too!

Fine, there are a lot of bad things that other communities are doing to us. What next?

That's my point.

What do you propose we do? That's what I was trying to get at.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

My Response to Amoorkan - II

Dear Amoorkan,

The maroon italics....

You have said:

"Discussing such points without proposing action plans for what we can do about them not only creates worry, anxiety and helplessness but it produces a suspicion tinged on hatred towards other religious groups and sects."


I do have solutions but we are still enumerating and why stop it? What is the hurry?

If you have solutions for the problems you bring up it will be helpful to any reader to say that upfront. That will tell that issues such as these are discussed with a purpose. I didn't see any message to this effect in all three of your postings. Also the title of the thread is - What Hindus Need to be Aware of - it seemed to me that creating awareness was your goal, not discussing action plans. That is why I brought it up.

As to the 'hurry' part - the sooner the moderators help the steering of the discussion the clearer it is for posters - that has been my experience moderating threads in this forum.


I am being told in words to the effect "We know what you are saying and will say hereafter. Just say what you have to do about it." I am in effect asked not to tell this truth, past and present as they happen. Why is the truth being made a Casualty? What is our agenda?

Wooow!!! If ever I have seen a gross misinterpretation of my comments recently, this one certainly is it.

Did I ask you to stop telling the truth or did I ask you to suggest action plans?

There is a world of a difference between the two concepts and I am taken aback at your lack of distinction between them.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

My Response to Amoorkan - III

Dear Amoorkan,

The maroon italics...

You have said:

“We are left with a sense of worry in our minds (I am taking the liberty of speaking for other posters who have responded to your postings as they have expressed this sentiment in some way) and a sense of suspicion toward other religious groups. That's hardly grounds for establishing respect for others."

I am glad you admit that it makes you worried and scared. Of course you and I and all of us have to worry and be scared about these things because it affects our existence, our culture and our purushaartha and our posterity.

You seem to have missed the latter part of my sentence (that it creates a sense of suspicion toward other religious groups) and my larger point (doesn't really contribute toward establishing respect for others).

As to how these issues are going to affect our purushartha - I am interesting in finding out what we can do about it. Not just worry and feel alarmed.


I thought excepting for one all other participants shared MY views.

Why can't somebody NOT share your views? What is the problem with that?

Even with Sri KRS we have no basic difference and I think that includes you too.

The point I raised is with you and you have been responding to me about that. What does KRS have to do with this issue? Why are you bringing him up?


As I read the postings of everyone the only issue that Sri KRS really have with me is on 'secularism'. He wants what is practiced in India to be called 'pseudo-secularism' and that pure 'secularism' is his aim. I had already asked him as to who would extricate this 'secularism' from these 'pseudos' and what is the guarantee that whatever comes out from such extrication will not be a washed out version of the same 'pseudo'-secularism. The Indian constitution which declares itself as 'secular' has brought about a political culture which Sri KRS wants to call it as 'pseudo-secularism' whereas my contention is that it has to be the chip of the same block, i.e. if the constitution is secular what it had bred viz. the political culture is the same thing. Apart from the verbal duel on the nomenclature, I don't think there is much of a difference between what he and I say on the content. Sri Silverfox, another moderator has rightly observed this. I have already said that I am not an opponent of all that is positive that is attributed to 'secularism' but merely pointed out that our own Dharma contains these positives and much more.

Thank you for taking the time out to type this history. Unfortunately it is completely irrelevant to our exchange.


In fact it is our Dharma that let the aliens to come in and prosper but they misused our gesture. We were tyrannized and enslaved, robbed and left for penury. What was the Industiral Workshop of the World became a basket case. All because we lowered our guard.


The bold letters tell me that you not only want to emphasize this point but you are really getting worked up about this issue.

All the more reason to discuss strategies and action plans.

As Dr. Swamy in one of his electrifying speech at Wilfrid Laurier University on the topic of ‘Emerging Economies – India and China’ declared that we are reasserting our rightful place. He detailed how the Nehruvian secularists with their socialist slogan had ruined the stride of progress with their authoritarianism that left us begging for food. When Sri Narasimha Rao a south Indian Brahmin who as the Prime Minister had to send a plane load of gold to be sold in Tokyo to buy food grains, he felt it was time to throw out the secularist-socialist economy and bring about the market economy that instantly propelled India on its road to development. So why sacrifice the greater one for getting a lesser one. It would make no sense.

Again irrelevant points to the issue at hand.

Sri KRS and I concur that Dr.Subramanian Swamy has the answer to the problem of the present day ills, but what consternated me was that at the very criticism of Sri Hari, comments came up saying Sri Swamy is not a man of reliable words. I felt that the 'baby was thrown out with the bath water'. I felt of the observation that the LTTE was against Dr.Swamy because he called them 'the international paraiah' was hitting below the belt for the LTTE is dead against Dr.Swamy only because as Law Minister he banned the LTTE which was trying to turn Tamilnadu into another Kashmir with these Dravidian outfits playing into their hands. Dr. Swamy is indeed the saviour of Tamilnadu and that our own fellow Brahmins. But in their sheer hippocracy of non-involvement our folks did not recognize his greatest contribution to their very survival.

Your stance in the Pseudo Secularism thread is of no relevance to our discussion.

Again the bold letters indicate your getting worked up. Are you trying to convey a sense of urgency? Then your words will find a better mark if you support them with proposed actions.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

My Response to Amoorkan - IV

Dear Sri Amoorkan,

The final part of my response...

(Pl. read Sri Suresh's succinct observation of modern mindset of our folks which I am trying to change).

Sri Amoorkan, I don't believe it is within any of our power to change other people's mindsets. What we can do is to present logical views, supported by evidence from trustworthy sources. It is up to the readers to make up their own minds. I believe that several of us are thinking adults perfectly capable of making good decisions on our own. We'd hate to be told what to do.

On the other hand it is possible to set an example about how to deal with such issues by implementing action plans. Seeing the success of that people might change.


If the non-Brahmins have been hijacked by the Dravidian outfits, to play anti-Hindu such as slapping false case on revered Acharyas and throwing them into jail with murderous criminals even when the Supreme Court has opined that there is no prima facie case. So why should we follow these secularists? This was my query. Happily Sri Hari withdrew his remarks against Dr. Subramanian Swamy. Such is the result of the enumeration of facts. We should never avoid it.

I cannot speak for Hari but I can certainly understand how anybody can feel a little nervous about bringing up an opposing point of view with you. You seem to take offense if people don't agree with you! I find that a little disturbing. Point is, Hari may have withdrawn for other reasons, not necessarily for the ones you believe.


I say to you not to narrowly read our forum's mission statement to shove things under the carpet and pretend that everything is fine and dandy. If we do that we would be making a deadly mistake. In my opinion the mission statement warns against wanton denigration of other religions and cultures and castes and communities.

(Big Smile)

I paused and smiled for a good long bit before writing this response.

You don't want me to 'narrowly read' our mission statement? And you think that statement is only about 'wanton denigration'?

You are addressing these points to someone who actually drafted that statement.

(The ideas came from all of us in the admin but the language is by yours truly).

So you are in effect asking me to understand and interpret properly my own words!


Only an uncivilized person would indulge in such wantonness.

You will be surprised at the number of such 'uncivilized persons' we at the admin have encountered.

Our Dharma ensures the purushaartha of everyone, Hindu or non-Hindu, so long as the non-Hindu gives up their cardinal principle that being a Hindu is a sin and they are duty bound to destroy the 'sinners'.

I am asking you to suggest action plans, Sri Amoorkan. And you are giving me a discourse on dharma!

You have said:

"We need to be able to call attention to the problems they are causing, certainly."

Thank you Chintana for stating clearly and emphatically. If we discourage the 'calling attention' to these vital problems then it would pose a dichotomy between what we say and what we do.

Again you've missed the second short sentence and the latter part of the message. I said, "We need to be able to call attention to the problems they are causing, certainly. BUT HOW?"

You seem to be in a hurry to express only what you want to express. Your post is riddled with misinterpretations and quotes taken out of context.


You have said:

"Is the suggestion for an action plan necessary for every type of issue presented? No. Just for the ones that 'highlight' communal, religious and sectarian problems. We don't want readers feeling anguished AND helpless. If presenting such 'awareness' articles is meant to grab attention ONLY then let's leave it to the media. We'd like to see something a little more than awareness. Time to start acting. We as a community have gotten too used to feeling like we are getting beaten and can do nothing about it. We are interested in promoting the sentiment that something can be done and it can be done by all of us."

Bravo! Chintana! I love it! I know you have said "Uniting all Hindu communities under a single umbrella is beyond the scope of this forum. We are interested in encouraging ideas about what we as Brahmins (amongst Hindus) can do to do our part in dealing with such complex issues." I agree we as a forum are not 'leaders' of the unity movement but we are a willing and earnest participants. We are like the squirral that helped build Rama Sethu.

Good!!! So start suggesting what we can do to solve the problem.

In summary, I say: Yes it is new to become aware and assimilate the threat to our religion, culture and civilization because we have been sleep walking all along.

I hope you are speaking only for yourself. There are several of us who have been aware of such problems for a loooong time.

We should not be scared of the enumeration for without such enumeration the solutions could get belittled and slip out of our grasp.

I hope you know that what you have posted is not 'enumeration'. Enumeration means listing one by one. It is applicable to lists in general. What you have tried to do in this thread is called 'creating awareness'. And I am saying that without action plans such awareness is empty and not of much use.

For such of those who are anxious to know the end of the thriller I suggest you should read Dr. Subramanian Swamy's best seller "Hindus under Seige - the Way Out"!

This is again irrelevant to our discussion. I am certainly not anxious to read this book as I don't see its relevance here.

Regards,
Amoorkan

Regards,
Chintana

P.S: If you as a moderator/administrator still think that my views are unacceptable please say so and I would not disturb your forum with my postings.

P.S: Any LOGICAL view presented with an OPENNESS to change, a WILLINGNESS to LISTEN and the PATIENCE to UNDERSTAND is more than welcome. We find it hard to deal with stubbornness and rigid view points.

 

[MeirePudingi]

Your name is beautiful. :roll:

Dear Sri Amoorkan,

Thank you for the informative postings on this thread. Reading through them I did feel quite worried.

I worried for a couple of reasons:

The 'attack' on Hinduism is not new. But bringing up such issues are sensitive and we need to deal with them carefully. Discussing such points without proposing action plans for what we can do about them not only creates worry, anxiety and helplessness but it produces a suspicion tinged on hatred towards other religious groups and sects.

While we should be aware of what others are doing it is important that we discuss strategies that are aimed at a solution. Otherwise readers will be left with a sense of worry and alarm which is not healthy considering they have to deal with several members of different religious and social groups in their day-to-day lives.

So if you must post items along the lines of the ones you have posted I strongly encourage you to discuss action plans that each of us as individuals can do to mitigate the problem.

Otherwise such issues will dwindle into the area of mere sensationalism promoting helplessness and anguish. We don't have to go there. The news media is there to do that for us.

Our forum is a group that is active enough and bright enough to discuss what to do about such things. I trust you will steer the discussion toward more of 'what we can do about it' instead of merely focusing on 'Oh! This is happening to us because other religious groups are out to get us'.

Regards,
Chintana

 

[Chintana]

Thanks for the compliment.

Unfortunately, I cannot say the same of your name.

In the interests of the forum, I highly recommend that you change your handle. Pick another one (a decent one this time) and write to me or Praveen. We will change it for you.

Your name is beautiful. :roll:

 

[vijisesh]

Message Follows

 

[vijisesh]

Does It Really Matter !!

Great concept

 

[KRS]

Folks,

Our religion was founded on grand principles- that is why it is called Sanathana Dharma. The Truth is at the center of our beliefs. I dare say that the Truth will ultimately prevail, no matter what.

No one can destroy it. Unless we do not abide by it's fundamental principle.
That we are the first people on earth who understood that all 'religions' have the same objective. Because, this is what we are as Hindus. If we lose this thought, we have no Truth. We are reduced to the levels of others who think that their religions are supreme and who would go to any lengths to impose this idea on others.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[vijisesh]

Dear Mr.KRS,
Going by the theory that ' Hinduism is a way of Life ' , rather than a religion
and your emphasis that 'Truth Prevails ' is not going to help me provide a defense of Hinduism during a debate !
Also , I know for sure that " we are the first people on earth " as u've stated . But then the ' Diode - Valve ' Radio was also the first invention , later being overtaken by the successors, Transistor radio , the silicon chip one and the microprocessor , one.
Don't we need a revised version of ' Our Principles' , to present it to the modern day smart generation ?, in the aim of creating awareness amongst them?
Ur comments , please