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Vow to speak Brahmin Tamil

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rcscwc

Guest
Dear rcscwc,
I'm no 'language chauvinists', but i can relate to what you say from my personal experience.



In TN we had to take special interest to learn Hindi (or other Indian language). Few Parents used to do that in 80s - 90s thinking it will be an advantage in job search in future.
Today parents don't see advantage in teaching Hindi, they prefer computer classes / extra math classes etc.
We do readily learn Telugu/Malayalam from our neighbors, so we are quite flexible when it comes to learning new languages.
Your statement about 'Tamils speak in Tamil even with non Tamils' in my view is untrue. You might have noticed a rare incident or a person with kutarkam.
In general, We try not to expose our limitations so that others do not take advantage of....

When i went to Delhi, i found a lot of Tamils in good bureaucratic positions and are quite comfortable in Hindi.

When we go outside state for the first time, we try to find a group of tamils and stay in that circle hoping we can ride the wave. Slowly we realize it does not work and we start learning the language. I assume it is a natural process for all migrants.

We realize that Rikshaw Puller or Vegetable vendor try to take advantage of our limitations and we are also comfortable testing our new skills with them rather than to our colleagues.

Not sure what you meant here.

thanks,

Sirji, it is a matter of bread and butter. Tamils in Tamil Nadu tend to think they don't need to learn Hindi as it gives no advantanges in Tamil Nadu. Wrong. Even in Tamil Nadu, where you have to interact with N. Indians in large numbers, people learn Hindi. In Rameshwaram, Kanya Kumari, Madurai etc. At such places insistence on Tamil can backfire.

With more and more S. Indians pilgrims, the day is not far when Tamil would be understood in Kurukshetra. Already there are a few sign boards in Gujarati and Bangla.

Those Tamils who go outside for work, do pick up the local language. In Punjab I have seen many S. Indians speaking very good Punjabi. At least one man spoke Punjabi with rustic, farmers' acceent.

Our pandas in Puri, Gayaji etc. are able to speak to us in Punjabi too, though we do know Hindi too. When I was posted at Asansol, I picked up Bangla, even though it was hardly necessary for my survival there.

Take Karuna Nidhi. He can never be an orator in N. India, not with his insistence on speaking in Tamil only. But Modi can address people in TN, with his Hindi plus smattering of Tamil. He is no Gujarati language chauvinist.
 
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Brahmanyan

Active member
Learning a language depends upon the necessity. Coimbatore has sizable Gujarathi population doing business related to textile industries. Almost all of them speak fluent Tamil. Similarly in Bangalore film distribution industry is in the hands of people from Mumbai area, they speak Kannada freely. I have seen businessmen (mainly from Nadar community) in Mumbai speaking Marathi and Hindi. Chennai has sizable northern Indians living for generations in Sowkarpet area, who speak and study Tamil just like any other Tamilian. Similarly Kolkata has a big Marwari population who speak Bengali. Only those who adopt themselves to the environs succeed in life.
But it is the Governments that put the language barriers among the people. During the British rule I have seen separate M.O. Forms printed in Tamil, Malayalam and Telugu for the use of public. Now it is different.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
Learning a language depends upon the necessity.

How true! Personally in Bangalore I have also seen the two extremes.Our Neighbours from Various states, most of whom either do business or are involved in dealing with Localites talk Kannada as fluently as the localite.

Being in IT, I also have seen certain people (including those from Hindi Speaking States) not learning more than 2-3 words in Kannada in spite of being here for more than 10 years,.They are in not in contact with the localites , even when they talk to shopkeeper/auto wallah they ask in Hindi and their daily needs are satisfied.

I (Being a Tamilian) also regularly get chided from my colleagues on why people in Tiruchy/Tanjore (Places they go generally to visist temples, navagrahas etc) do not talk Hindi ! Pray , why should they? The people here are self contained in thier own sense for their language needs.But if a person from same area migrates to Bangalre/Mumbai/Delhi, he/she will learn the language of the local!

Thank you

Regards
Revathi
 
R

rcscwc

Guest
I had a very unfortunate experience. In 77 I had gone to Kanya Kumari. Parvati is highly revered by us N. Indians. Travelling to Trivedrum, the bus halted at a small town. My younger brother wanted water. We got down, and asked for a glass of water. Did we get it? NOOOO. After pleading in various ways including sign language, we got nowhere. That was an eatery!! Then I blasted them in Hindi and threatened an arrest [I made out to be a police officer.]. Water WAS brought!!

Then I asked in Hindi: Ek aur. AND I got it!! BEAT IT if you can.

It was perhaps Nagarcoil. The town of Kamraj. What could you expect there? A Hindi speaker would be left to die of thirst and hunger in such places inhabitated by Tamil chauvinists. Wonder if Kamraj could never be an INDIAN leader? With such friends who needs enemies?


Break the shackles, Tamil brothers, brahmins or not.
 

RVR

0
I had a very unfortunate experience. In 77 I had gone to Kanya Kumari. Parvati is highly revered by us N. Indians. Travelling to Trivedrum, the bus halted at a small town. My younger brother wanted water. We got down, and asked for a glass of water. Did we get it? NOOOO. After pleading in various ways including sign language, we got nowhere. That was an eatery!! Then I blasted them in Hindi and threatened an arrest [I made out to be a police officer.]. Water WAS brought!!

Then I asked in Hindi: Ek aur. AND I got it!! BEAT IT if you can.

It was perhaps Nagarcoil. The town of Kamraj. What could you expect there? A Hindi speaker would be left to die of thirst and hunger in such places inhabitated by Tamil chauvinists. Wonder if Kamraj could never be an INDIAN leader? With such friends who needs enemies?


Break the shackles, Tamil brothers, brahmins or not.

Sri rcscwc,

It is very unfortunate that you had a very bad experience at Nagercoil. Your experienced has happened in the year 1977 where the literacy levels were much more lower than today. Probably local people would not have understood what you talked and the incident would have happened because of the communication gap also. Any way we have to condemn the incident if it has been done deliberately.

Personally I had similar experiences, off course not of the magnitude of what you have written, just because I was unable to talk the local language. In Germany I had a tough time getting information from the locals. In spite of their sincere effort to help me, I was not able to understand their language. For example I told them in simple English that I am a strict vegetarian but they tried to serve me fish which according to them is vegetarian.

Now probably English has become a common language in most parts of the world and let us try to use it at-least for basic communication. At the same time, let us also try to preserve our mother tongue also wherever possible. Let us not hate any other language and let us respect all the languages.

All the best
 
R

rcscwc

Guest
RVR, Sir. The Germans tried. In my case, they had to be threatened. Duifference.

It was bloody Kamraj who had created such a situation.
 
Sow. Vishalakshi Ramani asked -

How many people can guess the meaning of the words like
நேக்கு, நோக்கு, ஆத்திலே etc?
Greetings. Everybody who watched 'Micheal Madana Kama Rajan' (மைக்கல் மதன காம ராஜன்) would know the meaning (of course, besides the ones who use those words in their daily conversation).:)

Cheers!
 

RVR

0
RVR, Sir. The Germans tried. In my case, they had to be threatened. Duifference.

It was bloody Kamraj who had created such a situation.

Sri rcscwc,

Kamaraj is no more with us. He has done lot of good work in Tamilnadu and may be some people may not like him. Let us not talk bad about him.

All the best
 
R

rcscwc

Guest
Kamraj was "great", but only within TN. Greats have certain lergacies, mostly bad ones. His only legacy was : Hindi Down Down. It harmed Tamilians more than it did Hindi.

So sirji, please do not take a vow to speak tamil only.
 
reply to # 32.

Dear Mr. Raghy,

I am sure all brahmins who are supposed to use these words will understand them

My question was how many of the other people will understand them?

What is there to stop them from laughing or giggling, when these words convey them some other meaning.

Even to be understood, we need the help of a Kamal Haasam movie!

That is the plight of our language!

with warm regards,
V.R.
 
Sow. Visalakshmi Ramani,

Greetings. I don't know where you had the experience of people ridiculing Brahmin Tamizh. Actually, people love to hear it. We always come across narrow minded persons who would ridicule anything for hurting others feelings. I think, we should not take that as the norm. But we should emember; Brahmin Tamizh is a difference dialect, when speaking to non-brahmins, we should not expect them to understand the conversation in full context. Anyways, i like some visuals....

YouTube - michael madana kama rajan

(Kindly watch 4.06 to 4.17)...

Cheers!
 
... Travelling to Trivedrum, the bus halted at a small town. My younger brother wanted water. We got down, and asked for a glass of water. Did we get it? NOOOO.
rcscwc, if they understood what you were saying and still refused to give you water, then they were jerks. All Tamilians will scold them for refusing water to your family.

I was just wondering what it would be like if the situation was reversed. Suppose that I was traveling from Delhi to Haridwar and stopped in a small town. Further suppose that I get down from the bus and go into a small restaurant and ask for water in Tamil, and insist on asking for water only in Tamil.

rcscwc, it was not Kamaraj who lead the opposition to the imposition of Hindi, it was Annadurai and DMK. Completely contradicting your statement about Kamaraj, it was Kamaraj's successor, Bhaktavatsalam of the Congress Party, who put down the anti-Hindi agitations.

The urban Tamils, particularly Brahmins, have taken to learning Hindi for the reasons you cite. They have blissfully abandoned learning Tamil in a formal way. All my Indian brought up nephews and nieces are fluent in Hindi including to read and write, but can only speak Tamil, and some don't do even that. I speak to them in Tamil and answer comes back in English.

Cheers!
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
SHri Nara Sir,

Actually I have experienced in Delhi and Mumbai Airports - even when I ask in English (Not because I dont like Hindi - I talk in English better compared to Hindi and had to communicate properly regarding what I wanted) and they replied in Hindi .(It is an international airport and they were talking to foriegners in English and since I am brown, I was expected to talk only in Hindi)

Worse, I (living in B'lore) get some telecalls from Delhi promoting some product or the other and the person starts talking in Hindi without asking me whether I can u/s the language.

But I will stop here since the thread goes in different direction than what it is intended for.

Regards
Revathi
 
R

rcscwc

Guest
rcscwc, if they understood what you were saying and still refused to give you water, then they were jerks. All Tamilians will scold them for refusing water to your family.

I was just wondering what it would be like if the situation was reversed. Suppose that I was traveling from Delhi to Haridwar and stopped in a small town. Further suppose that I get down from the bus and go into a small restaurant and ask for water in Tamil, and insist on asking for water only in Tamil.

rcscwc, it was not Kamaraj who lead the opposition to the imposition of Hindi, it was Annadurai and DMK. Completely contradicting your statement about Kamaraj, it was Kamaraj's successor, Bhaktavatsalam of the Congress Party, who put down the anti-Hindi agitations.

The urban Tamils, particularly Brahmins, have taken to learning Hindi for the reasons you cite. They have blissfully abandoned learning Tamil in a formal way. All my Indian brought up nephews and nieces are fluent in Hindi including to read and write, but can only speak Tamil, and some don't do even that. I speak to them in Tamil and answer comes back in English.

Cheers!
No. It was Kamraj who told the bearocrats to teat any letter that comes in Hindi. Of course, DMK created the bogey of Hindi imposition. In the process they took away the right to learn Hindi.

Sure, today is not 77, I know. Had I asked in English, I would get still the same moronic smiles. A hard tone and he understood my request, and repeat request too.

In Hardwar, sure they would not know Tamil. But then they would be quite helpful too. Same in Kurukshetra. After all lot of S. Indian pilgrims come there. Expect a few eateries in Hardwar where they know Tamil, may be a few years down.
 
R

rcscwc

Guest
Haha, Ganesh sir, you think you were racially targetted? BS. You could have said: No Hindi, English only. Problem solved. At Chennai airport I do not expect any problem. Nor with railway staff.
 
G

ganeshrev

Guest
Haha, Ganesh sir, you think you were racially targetted? BS. You could have said: No Hindi, English only. Problem solved. At Chennai airport I do not expect any problem. Nor with railway staff.

The post was meant to convey that I asked in English and reply came in Hindi.

I am not in a mood to discuss with you and in case you did not notice, I had addressed this to Mr Nara.So please could you excuse me.

BTW, you may as well see the signature and address appropriately

Thanks
Revathi
 
Reply to # 36.

Dear Mr. Raghy,

I had lived in a ladies hostel for 8 long years (while studying and while working).

So I know personally what kind of reactions we get when we speak in Brahmin Tamizh to everyone.

Well, It should have been specified 'while taking the vow' that in future we will speak Brahmin Tamizh to all the other brahmins.

Then this confusion could have been avoided :)


In kerala we have to ask for 'veLLam' if we want water to drink. 'Thanni' may mean some thing else!

There are two kinds of thannis, even in T.N.

சிலபேர் தண்ணி குடிப்பாங்க;

சிலபேர் தண்ணி சாப்பிடுவாங்க!

Thanks for the video link. I am yet to watch it.

with warm regards,
V.R.
 
Dear friends,

I have an interesting incident to share with you!

During one of our train journeys we had an important Government officer(?) in the same cubicle with his wife.

A number of persons had come to see him off and to make sure that all his luggage were properly stored and his wife had enough stock of cream biscuits to last through the journey.

He was watching us with deep interest and finally put a question to me. First he asked my permission to ask his doubt. The doubt was "to which community or caste i belonged"

It was my turn to become curious that he should ask such a question!

He said that he can guess correctly the caste, community and locality of persons within minutes after meeting them. But he was baffled in my case!

He found it very hard to believe that I was Brahmin (that too of Kerala origin).

He wondered (since their dialect is unmistakably unique) but how I had got rid off it so well.

To this day I consider it as one of the best compliments I have received:)
 
OP
OP
I

Iyer

Guest
Reply to # 36.

Dear Mr. Raghy,

I had lived in a ladies hostel for 8 long years (while studying and while working).

So I know personally what kind of reactions we get when we speak in Brahmin Tamizh to everyone.

Well, It should have been specified 'while taking the vow' that in future we will speak Brahmin Tamizh to all the other brahmins.

Then this confusion could have been avoided :)

In kerala we have to ask for 'veLLam' if we want water to drink. 'Thanni' may mean some thing else!

There are two kinds of thannis, even in T.N.

சிலபேர் தண்ணி குடிப்பாங்க;

சிலபேர் தண்ணி சாப்பிடுவாங்க!

Thanks for the video link. I am yet to watch it.

with warm regards,
V.R.

Mz Ramani,

A Gounder or Nadar does not feel shy speaking their respective Tamil when communicating with others. They are least sensitive to the environment, to the caste of the other person or group whom they are interacting with. They go around speaking their accent (or dialect of Tamil whatever you name it). But Brahmins alone feel shy speaking Brahmin Tamil with members of other community. This is more because of fear of criticism than fear of annoying the other person. Even among Brahmins, the Brahmin Tamil is eroding. This is cause of concern.

Regards,
Iyer
 
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Dear Mr. Iyer,
The only way out is first to start talking Brahmin Tamil among ourselves- whether or not the others laugh on hearing it.
Slowly we can popularize our language among the others also. No harm in trying!
Thick skin also helps those people who care least for the environment :)
My guess is that most of us may not have it as a natural gift :(
with warm regards,
V.R.
 
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Namsakaram,

I am a new member and this is my first post. This topic has been pondered many times in our house.It is a real shame to say that most of the current middle age genartion the 1970-1980s born(I am one) are now settled abroad
and among them most of them have forgotten the proper brahminical tamil word usage for common terms. Even if they use it may be crude. They encourage the children to speak in English. Being abroad myself, I am not
against English, but it should not be at the cost of our mother tongue. The reason they cite is this age old saying "தமிழ் படிச்சு என்ன லாபம்".

If the parents dont encourage then how the current young generation will get to know of our linguistic treasure. Many of my cousins are even proud to say that they don't know how to read and write in Tamil.

This is a real pathetic situation prevailing in our community. On seeing this I am planning to start the work on a Project of using the Learn Tamil in 30 days and replace the the tamil terms used there with Brahminical Tamil.
Based on my commitments it may take about 6-8 months.Then circulate the same by email among our nears and dears. We can do that. Let me see how far I succeed. பெருமாள் அனுக்ரஹம் இருக்கும்னு நினைக்கிறேன்

Atleast if 1% use this it would make way for a good beginning.
 

kunjuppu

Active member
yk,

welcome to the forum. btw where do you live?

i live in toronto, and almost all tambram children do not speak tamil, mine included.

in contrast, the children of sri lankan tamils not only read, write and speak tamil, but also attend special weekend classes conducted by the school board for credit.

personally, i speak in chaste tamil (most of it) to my sri lankan friends. at home it is another story. the wife has only weak tamil and so is a jumble of tamil malayalam english.

the only group that i know for sure from india who is consistent in passing on traditions, is the bengalis.

re your venture, best wishes.
 
dear Mr. Y.R.K,

Welcome to the Forum!

Nice plan to spread Brahmin Tamil. I think you can start posting a few words at a time in the Forum. More people will benefit from your efforts!

All your near and dear ones can visit the Forum as guests or better still become members of the Forum.

From my personal experience, when given smaller doses more people seem to come forward to read and benefit!

Good Luck in your venture. I can also help you- in case you need help and don't mind it coming from an old grandma :) !!
with best wishes,
V.R.
 
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Hi Kunjuppu,

Thanks for the welcome. I am based in Singapore. Thanks for the encouragement in my venture. Hope to succeed.
 
Hi V.R,

Thanks for the suggestion about little dosage. You elders know better than us and I value their suggestions.

Of course I will come to u for the help.

பெரியவாள் அனுக்ரஹம் கண்டிப்பாக வேணும்
 
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