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Unity of NRI because of Religion

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Ms Bashu,
You put a smile on my face with your comments.
I agree hundred percent, but I can tell you that we are not young enough to socialize the way we used to. So it is mutual that I too do not want any casual socialization.

But the woman's dress even in India is changing. We still live in India of 1970's, that India has moved on. In well to do Indian social groups it is rare to see a young women in sari.
Indian women need an IPAD App to wear sari. Sari App Written by an Indian woman for her age group.

But I suppose it is convenient to wear jeans and t-shirt, it is progress in their eyes. I am sometimes nostalgic.:high5:
 
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I am glad to put smile on your face Mr. Prasad :) what I meant was about the younger women not even smiling, was simply the recognition of a fellow Indian.. that is all.. I did not want to socialize with her.. I have a galore of friends, I am not able to keep up with, but just... I guess I am old fashioned in some ways..

I used to wear sarees, until I was working part time, once I started full time, over 20 years I have worn all the western, except shorts, that is something I cannot do .. I am not westernized to great extent... You are quite right about India changing so much, that I am afraid sarees will be history, I hope it will never go out of style.. I think that is the most elegant dress in the world.. women should learn it from mother or someone else, not use an Ipad for this.. :)))

I guess I went off track and I better say bye before someone yells at me that I am off the subject, sorry guys.. :) good luck with your discussions.. :)
 
These days, when a young Indian woman, recently migrated is stepping out in her jeans and Tshirt, and here I am with saree and my pottu, she clearly ignores me and just pretends not to even notice me.. and this after I smile at her..

It just was amusing to me that these kids (coming from India) today have not much respect for a fellow indian, (particularly for the older generation) we were of different make, still care very much for holding on to a lot of our ways, but with a modern twist.. :) To a lot of us People matter and nothing else..

Omg i so want to comment on this. I agree with you totally. Even here when we are wearing sari/salwar with pottu vibhuti whatever "effnic" having just gone to a temple or an "Indian do" and you get some people especially women who probably just landed yesterday and are more "freshie" (a term used here if you're from Asia or dress very Subcontinent) than us but just give us this "you freshies, can't you even wear western clothes here" look and roll their eyes!! Too many "coconuts" around if you ask me!

PS: No offence to any "coconuts"!. Merely tongue/cheek/in but nevertheless my experience and observation thus far. :)
 
Post #25
I did not mean unity is ONLY ​due to religion. My original post was to point out that religion do bring people togather. One participates in various gatherings, where they feel wanted, or sometimes need to show up even if you hate it (pretend unity).

My post was specifically directed towards those who assign every problem in life to religion. They are miserable, make people around them miserable, all in the name of their perceived "truth" or ills of religion.

In Jaggi Vasudev's words:
"The greatest crime that you can do to humanity is to teach your children that suffering is a part of their life. You have taken away the possibility of them being joyous human beings."
 
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a smile always brought in hidden motives for me.namely amway or some other way :) now 13 years later a family that shud have been thre is gone..poyindi,poyuduthu, cholay gacchay,baag gaya..:( a price too high that i paid,though i comfort myself saying zindagi ek safar hai suhanna yahaan kal kya ho kisne jaana :)
 
Can you visualize how our forefathers traveled all over Bharath on tirthayatras and temple visits with no worry about the next meal or the next shelter?
 
Nachi Naga sir, I totally agree with your statement below..

My post was specifically directed towards those who assign every problem in life to religion. They are miserable, make people around them miserable, all in the name of their perceived "truth" or ills of religion.

I have known a few like that in my life and I always laugh at such people and think how much they have to evolve.. just because you say prayers in the morning and light a lamp and right after that they would do something so unethical.. been there seen that...

By the way what did you mean by the smile??? you mean, I use a lot of smiles.. Haiyo did I make a mistake??? I am not a Amway person, not to worry :)) by the way, are you from calcutta, chole gache!! I used to live in calcutta too.. :)
 
From the various posts so far, I who do not have any idea of the unity-through-religion of NRIs, feel that religion divides Indians into various schisms (NY group splitting in the nascent stage itself and making two temples) and then religion brings about an outwardly semblance of unity among the congregation.

Thus the first and more potent result is one of religion/faith/region (Palghat/TN)-based splitting as the first one and then the people meet together to foster their own individual small schismatic groups. We are also told that rivalry is strong and alive for control of the affairs of temples, sometimes even on Iyer-Iyengar or B-NB basis.

All considered I feel religion is at work in the very same fashion abroad as it has been working in India for centuries. The Hindu religion is thus not a catalyst of unity but fragmentation, imo.
 
Can you visualize how our forefathers traveled all over Bharath on tirthayatras and temple visits with no worry about the next meal or the next shelter?

In light of my new found knowledge, how did they do it? It would be fascinating read.
 
From the various posts so far, I who do not have any idea of the unity-through-religion of NRIs, feel that religion divides Indians into various schisms (NY group splitting in the nascent stage itself and making two temples) and then religion brings about an outwardly semblance of unity among the congregation.

Thus the first and more potent result is one of religion/faith/region (Palghat/TN)-based splitting as the first one and then the people meet together to foster their own individual small schismatic groups. We are also told that rivalry is strong and alive for control of the affairs of temples, sometimes even on Iyer-Iyengar or B-NB basis.

All considered I feel religion is at work in the very same fashion abroad as it has been working in India for centuries. The Hindu religion is thus not a catalyst of unity but fragmentation, imo.


I have afferent opinion.
Could the problem be in your definition of word "religion". May be it differs my definition of the same word.

We fragment for our convenience, our purpose, and our ego satisfaction. We come together for same reasons. I have not said 'religion is not used to divide people'. I agree some people have used their portion of religion to divide people.

Why then blame "religion" that too specifically "hindu religion" for the misdeeds of a small group that has attracted your attention. My experience is different. May be one should expand their horizon, like the expression "smell roses".

Check this view of Hinduism held by large number of people.

Learn About Hinduism video from Answers.com Videos
 
i have been residing in canada for 38+ years most of it in toronto.

here is my experience.

initially when the community was getting foothold here, there was more of 'indian'ism. we even had an indian credit union (co-operative community bank) but within 10 years that folded. very soon, people with the comfort of numbers, started gravitating to micro groups, same language, caste

again the old fogies of the 70s and 80s like us, do not mix with the new young crowd, fresh off the boat from india or dubai. our children, who are the same age, for cultural incompatibility do not mix with the newly arriveds.

the second generation, do not know the difference, or appreciate the difference between gujju, punjabi or madrasi. since punjabi is the overwhelming culture by virture of numbers, everyone gravitates towards punjabi culture. not many tambram kids are aware of our unique rituals, to carry it on to the next generation, and neither do the parents care. atleast 75% if not more, though i am not sure, if the parents would agree to this.

initially there was one south indian temple, a unified effort of overwhelmingly iyers with representation from iyengars, telugus and sri lankan tamils. then in the 1980s these overwhelmed everyone not only by their numbers (est 4 lakhs in toronto) but also by their devotion. the ganesha temple is a thriving example of devotion carried across the seas by sl tamils. the management is nominally tambram, but the tradition and devotion is sri lankan. the odd bajana group congregates there during weekends, but festival celebrams are 99.9% sl tamil.

in addition to that enterprising tambram priests (indian or sri lankan) have started 'private' temples which are also flourishing.

north indians, west indians, gujjus have their own temples, not that others are not welcome or forbidden go there. but it is not usually done. everyone likes the smell of their own kind. that is the way it is.

the iskon temple is a convertd protestant church, so clean that you can eat off the floor. except you get hounded by the white converts, so that you cannot wait to get out.

the new temple is shringeri mutt, which is becoming a sole tambram strong hold (whispers here is to keep the sri lankans out) showing that our generation and the newly feeds from india are strong in their avoidance to any other group than tambrams even when it comes to religion. there are also several private vathiars, doing good business, and flying all over canada, to remote areas, for weddings, poonals or shraddhams.

the kerala christians keep to themselves. the public must understand that the white culture is irreligious, and the indian catholic has not much in common with a white protestant or filipino catholic other than religion. culturally they do not mix.

same goes with the indianmuslims. most mingle with pakistani muslims, because they all belong to the same cultural roots of north india, and not because of any anti india feeling. same goes with bangladeshis who do not move with pakistani or indian muslims, or with banga hindus either.

ismailis, a muslim sect under agha khan, are not considered 'muslims' by pak or indian muslims. their women are liberated and the community is into education and are reaching great heights in management and education. they keep to themselves too.

so, we are all little islands, a mosaic in canada, each with our identities and brag lines.

the one occassion when there was a pan india celebration was during the 50th anniversary of indian independence. there was a cultural program of all of india, ie dances from all parts, and that was it.

without the urgency of a war, poverty, natural calamity, there has been no need for strong virulent identity assertation, unlike sri lankan tamils, who have been and still traumatized by the fate of their brethren back home. prosperity, i am afraid, does not provide a clarion call for unity or sacrifice or charity. this is the reality.

it is nice to believe that once out of the homeland, we indians congregate together. not true i think.

maybe it is our familiarity with english, or the familiarity of places due to the internet or hollywood movies, we may not feel as strange to foreign lands these days, like our grand fathers did.

after all, perhaps, yaathum oorey, yaavirum keLir, is now becoming more of a reality :)

thank you.

ps the only group that stick together like fevicol, are mainland or HK chinese, but then i may be prejudiced here.
 
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I have afferent opinion.
Could the problem be in your definition of word "religion". May be it differs my definition of the same word.

We fragment for our convenience, our purpose, and our ego satisfaction. We come together for same reasons. I have not said 'religion is not used to divide people'. I agree some people have used their portion of religion to divide people.

Why then blame "religion" that too specifically "hindu religion" for the misdeeds of a small group that has attracted your attention. My experience is different. May be one should expand their horizon, like the expression "smell roses".

Check this view of Hinduism held by large number of people.

Learn About Hinduism video from Answers.com Videos

Shri Prasad,

I could see only one minute of the video and that doesn't help any one to get even a basic idea about Hinduism imo.

Shri Kunjuppu has since written about NRIs in Canada. From Smt. Bushu's post I learn that the south indians thought of building a temple in NY but soon it got split and two temples were built by the rival groups. This is what I call "religion divides people" unless you feel temple-building and running these are activities outside religion, like forming club houses, or marriage mandapams. What is your definition of religion in this context, please?
 
Today I went to a SL temple Sivan Kovil with a SL friend. It was sooo unbelivably crowded and we thought we could beat the crowd by going really late after poojai is over, but no. It was after all Purataasi Sani and every SL was around.

In particular the Saniswaran (navagraham) was jam packed and people couldn't even move. What was really interesting to me was what the SL preist said. This were his exact words : "eppadi vennaalum suthongo. Ithu vunggada kovil dhaaney. Eppadi venaalum suthongo" perhaps to a query from some of the worshippers. I thought wow only in our religion do we have this much leeway (within reason, naturally!).Or perhaps he was sarcastic being London, and he thought it wouldn't make any difference if we're doing it wrong! :)
 
Today I went to a SL temple Sivan Kovil with a SL friend. It was sooo unbelivably crowded and we thought we could beat the crowd by going really late after poojai is over, but no. It was after all Purataasi Sani and every SL was around.

In particular the Saniswaran (navagraham) was jam packed and people couldn't even move. What was really interesting to me was what the SL preist said. This were his exact words : "eppadi vennaalum suthongo. Ithu vunggada kovil dhaaney. Eppadi venaalum suthongo" perhaps to a query from some of the worshippers. I thought wow only in our religion do we have this much leeway (within reason, naturally!).Or perhaps he was sarcastic being London, and he thought it wouldn't make any difference if we're doing it wrong! :)

for 7 grahams clockwise.for two rahu & ketu anti-clockwise,just fyi :)
 
Nachi Naga sir, I totally agree with your statement below..

My post was specifically directed towards those who assign every problem in life to religion. They are miserable, make people around them miserable, all in the name of their perceived "truth" or ills of religion.

I have known a few like that in my life and I always laugh at such people and think how much they have to evolve.. just because you say prayers in the morning and light a lamp and right after that they would do something so unethical.. been there seen that...

By the way what did you mean by the smile??? you mean, I use a lot of smiles.. Haiyo did I make a mistake??? I am not a Amway person, not to worry :)) by the way, are you from calcutta, chole gache!! I used to live in calcutta too.. :)

yes bushu part of my growing up was in kolkatta plus some work years there.i love kolkatta except the cpi(m) & cpi :).now i love where i live,so much of peace,green and love.i love usa :)
 
yes bushu part of my growing up was in kolkatta plus some work years there.i love kolkatta except the cpi(m) & cpi :).now i love where i live,so much of peace,green and love.i love usa :)

I love your post, but after this I will have to think twice.:faint:

I have lived in Kolcutta, ballygung (or little madras). I do not like Calcutta. LOL
 
yes bushu part of my growing up was in kolkatta plus some work years there.i love kolkatta except the cpi(m) & cpi :).now i love where i live,so much of peace,green and love.i love usa :)

O that is cool, I lived there for ten years, 69 to 79 got married there.. :) by the way what is CPI (m) and cpi??? sorry to sound ignorent.. I too love where I live now, can't beat the weather.. just no humidity awesome.. thank god for placing me here.. by the way I love calcutta too.... :)
 
OOPS!! Prasad, that is ok, you don't have to like it.. My mom hated it but had to be there most of the time, but what she did was to travel to Madras twice a year, lucky we had an awesome cook Kuttan, she taught him everything, so my dad had no problem.. :)) but I think Calcutta is still one of the best places.. so laid back and also very artistic and lovable people, I guess my experience was a good one..
sorry just saw this and answered to you both, sorry to have brought you out of your subject matter.. good luck
 
O that is cool, I lived there for ten years, 69 to 79 got married there.. :) by the way what is CPI (m) and cpi??? sorry to sound ignorent.. I too love where I live now, can't beat the weather.. just no humidity awesome.. thank god for placing me here.. by the way I love calcutta too.... :)

communist party of india marxism - cpi(m)

i grew up in bangalore,kolkatta,new-delhi,chennai,hyderabad travelled every nook & corner of india.travelled & lived in 5 states in usa so far..musafir hoon yaarone..:)
 
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When we came to this town, there were total of 55 Hindu/Jain families, in a radius of 50 miles, out of which were 5 Tamils, one was married to Christian, one was Tamilian but spoke Telegu at home. 10 of the of us joined together and bought 10 acres of land for the Temple, we asked the sick community to buy the adjoining land but they could not. We used to host fund raising events, and donations from other people to collected enough funds for down payment. We could not get any bank to loan us the money for building a temple. Finally we managed a loan from State Bank of India through some connection, at higher rate. We individually signed the note for the loan of $500,000.00. We built a small temple with multi-purpose room, this was 30 years ago. Today we have beautiful new Temple built worth $5,000,000.00. Of course we have lot of compromise. We have accommodated multiples vigrahas include Jain.
They conduct various poojas. We have 3 resident pujari. We service the needs of the congregation.
I am not into traditions, we consulted stapathi's, and anybody with a views and synthesized and compromised and built a vibrant temple. The temple is run as a non-profit organization with stakeholder (corporate members) under the state laws.

I think that is unity in my view. I do not know what else I can explain?

For the cattle, they jump the fence as "The pasture is greener on the other side".
Everything looks beautiful from far, once you are inside you know we are human.
Do we have ego, you bet we do.
If there is 80% unity and 20% discord, it is your position what you want to see.

To the naysayers I tell you it is human nature to fragment. If you think any religion or group is cohesive, it is your lack knowledge of that group. Get to know the details of that group, you will see the true color. Except where you have real King, Lee Kuan you, or Hitler with no opposition.

I am happy to see the unity.
 
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more on (dis) unity of religions in toronto.

the christians, of all hues and shades, each have their own church, or borrow time,from other congregations, for their own comfort. the tamil catholics and protestants, afaik, do not have their own churches. the egyptian copts have huge edifices, with community hall etc. and i presume, that if you were a non copt, you would have tough time moving in and about.

the bosnian muslims consider themselves 'european' and when among whites, cannot be distinguished. they have their own mosque. the turks have their own. incidentally, the ahamadiyyas, who are butchered in pakistan, have their mosque, next to a synagogue, and each group, regularly visit the other, and offer best wishes on their respective holy days.

the south asian muslims tend to pray together, only because of common origins, but even here, bangla deshis, once they get the critical number, move on to form their own group. the somalis join wherever they can, as they are still in the stage of coagulating into a group.

the arya samaj incidentally has its own mandir, a weird one for hindu institution, without any idols. :) it is spacious and well maintained, though i am uncomfortable with their vhp toting office bearers. a 25th wedding celebration for a family friend, turned into a polemic against the corruption of sanskrit in the north, due to foreign invasions, and a panegyric to tambrams for maintaining the true pronounciation and spirit of sanskrit. i could puke.

in the previous days, when there was a large amount of european immigration, each nationality had its own church - the german lutheran, the russian and ukrainian and greek orthodox churches, each different denomination, the armenian church, and even some french only churches. with the children marrying and becoming canadian, most of the old time european churches, have lost their ethnic flavour, and become mainstream, if they can get a decent sized congregation on a sunday at all. most of these are sitting on now prime lands, worth millions and it is a toss up as to how these will be divided.

there was a hungarian church, in mid toronto. the hungarians moved on and the area became chinese. so the hungarian catholilc church sold its property and moved further outside the city where the hungarians resettled. so what happened to the church - it became a chinese restaurant :)
 
Ref post #46,
You prove my point (unintentionally).
In spite of all discord we come together, do we not?
Otherwise that building would not be standing, am I right.
That building is serving some purpose, admit it.
 
To the naysayers....

I mentioned about the prejudice of some members in this forum. This group's hatred against brahmins is so deep that they have a compelling urge to see anything and everything in a negative light, as long as a brahmin sees it otherwise. It does not matter what Prasad writes here. Prasad is a brahmin and hence they disagree. That is all to it!
 
கால பைரவன்;99656 said:
I mentioned about the prejudice of some members in this forum. This group's hatred against brahmins is so deep that they have a compelling urge to see anything and everything in a negative light, as long as a brahmin sees it otherwise. It does not matter what Prasad writes here. Prasad is a brahmin and hence they disagree. That is all to it!
Oh come on Mr. Kalabhairavan, by saying this you are the one revealing yourself to be prejudiced to the core. However much you may like to conflate criticism of Brahminism with hatred towards individual Brahmins, the fact remains, Brahminism is a supremacist ideology deserving a place in the dung heap of history. The sooner the Brahmins get to be ex-brahmins the better it is for them.

Cheers KB, have a nice day!
 
Oh come on Mr. Kalabhairavan, by saying this you are the one revealing yourself to be prejudiced to the core. However much you may like to conflate criticism of Brahminism with hatred towards individual Brahmins, the fact remains, Brahminism is a supremacist ideology deserving a place in the dung heap of history. The sooner the Brahmins get to be ex-brahmins the better it is for them.

This obfuscation has been going for so long. There is hatred directed against brahmins in this forum. When questioned, it was opined that it is the caste system that is being criticized. I raised the question before: If the criticism is against caste system, why is the term "brahminism" used so profusely and the term "casteism" seldom (or never) used? No answers to this question. Perhaps, the Brabas are worried that NB casteists would be offended.
 
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