Unity among Iyer and Iyengars

[rrvvvr]

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I always had a feeling that NBs are able to exploit Bs only because we lack unity. Particularly among tamil Bs, the divide bet Iyers and Iyengars is too much. Externally they may not show this, but internally there is a feeling of contempt for each other's practices. This is must stop forthwith. Afterall all of us are suffering equally at the hands of NBs. How does it matter whether we follow siva or vishnu? Particularly Iyengars show display this by not visiting non vishnavite temples and in their names. This generation can't spell the difference between dwaitam and adwaitam wh differentiated Sankaracharya from Ramanujar, but still believes in maintaining the feud.I dont intend raising fingers at anybody but request that all of us should unite and stand as one. I dont expect this thread to spill ill feelings amongst each other but only put forth productive suggestions to contribute to the cause of our unity. Let us take a oath to visit both Shiva and Vishnu temples, name our dear ones after both lords and show respect for each other's practices, infact learn from each other.

 

[s007bala]

r squared v cube r

What are you?Iyengar or Iyer?

Variety is spice of life.We shud respect Iyengars customs as well as Iyers traditions.That each has an opinion about each other is fine.We shud agree to disagree.Maintaining decorum and decency.Isn't it?.NB's are equally dis-united.They use us to unite.Similiarly we do too with them.God created humans with various permutation combinations,if we ascertain to creator concepts.The whole maaza is understanding different people.Its an virtual impossibility to have humans behave in one particular way,after all we are not robots,isn't it?

sb

sb

 

[happyhindu]

Unity is always good.

But i thot the iyer-iyengar diff no longer exists (except for a crazy movie like dasavataram that whips things up). I mean i know of them inter-marrying in the present time...And when the world is moving in every direction, it wud be silly to see any 'difference' b/w a class that everyone else classes as brahmin. All philosophies, all practices are good. God made everything and we are not to decide which is better...infact with more interaction, only similarities will come out.

But yep, NBs are equally disunited if not more...some have never seen a rich relative helping a poorer one...selfish, tooo materalistic and worse, some measure self-worth by measuring how poor the other person is....just keeps all poor and exactly where they are.

 

[kcmsjaffna]

Kirantha Site

hi
vanakkam
I am kamalasaravanabava sarma, yesterday i joined this site.
anyone know grantha sits, plz tell me
I search lots of sites but i didnt find grantha sits.I only get Nagara sits

 

[s007bala]

http://www.ancientscripts.com/grantha.html

Try this.

sb

 

[tbs]

I always had a feeling that NBs are able to exploit Bs only because we lack unity. Particularly among tamil Bs, the divide bet Iyers and Iyengars is too much. Externally they may not show this, but internally there is a feeling of contempt for each other's practices. This is must stop forthwith. Afterall all of us are suffering equally at the hands of NBs. How does it matter whether we follow siva or vishnu? Particularly Iyengars show display this by not visiting non vishnavite temples and in their names. This generation can't spell the difference between dwaitam and adwaitam wh differentiated Sankaracharya from Ramanujar, but still believes in maintaining the feud.I dont intend raising fingers at anybody but request that all of us should unite and stand as one. I dont expect this thread to spill ill feelings amongst each other but only put forth productive suggestions to contribute to the cause of our unity. Let us take a oath to visit both Shiva and Vishnu temples, name our dear ones after both lords and show respect for each other's practices, infact learn from each other.

hi all
visit shiva vishnu temples in USA......there are many shiva vishnu temples in
USA are the examples of iyer/ iyengar unity.......there are many
denominations in christianity......but they all believe in jesus christ..
EKAM SAT VIPRAH BAHUDHA VADANTI .......this is upanishadic
quote......let us pray for more unity among iyer/iyengars...
its just ignorance...........

regards
tbs

 

[rrvvvr]

Thanks for all those who responded. It feels nice to know that you have had experiences different from mine. I am happy to know that marriage between the classes is taking place. At least till a couple of years ago it din't happen. I request more poeple to feel for the cause and remove unwarranted stigmas if any.

 

[[email protected]]

sri rrvvvr, Your feelings are good,but the Iyengars should change themselves, I am a victim by iyengars when i worked underthem, they think they are good and they belive only their customs, e.g. at Adambakkam a vinayaka Temple built by Iyers,and other forward community Hindu's ,one fine Morning some Iyengars enter the Temple and Kept Ram,sita, lakhman vickgrams. To-day the total admn under their control. So change should come from Iyengars .

 

[happyhindu]

sri rrvvvr, Your feelings are good,but the Iyengars should change themselves, I am a victim by iyengars when i worked underthem, they think they are good and they belive only their customs, e.g. at Adambakkam a vinayaka Temple built by Iyers,and other forward community Hindu's ,one fine Morning some Iyengars enter the Temple and Kept Ram,sita, lakhman vickgrams. To-day the total admn under their control. So change should come from Iyengars .

Please when you allege like this i hope you can also back it up. To begin with, i request you to write which temple is this that you are talking about. Which temple in Adambakkam? Wud also be nice if you cud mention when did this take place....

 

[s007bala]

>> So change should come from Iyengars .<<

Iyengars cannot change.They cannot even reconcile to Vadakalai & Thenkalai,let alone Shiva Stalams.Its just the way bharatham is divided even before the birth of Abrahamic religions came into existence.We are cogenital warring groups.

sb

 

[[email protected]]

Sri H.H sir, The Temple is RajaVinayakar Koil,and my own sisters huspend was started this project and complected.only some one from Iyengars of Porttrustand retaired Railway person did this.

 

[happyhindu]

In such cases, without knowing any details, it is very difficult to say anything. Generally speaking sir, if management is poor it perhaps paves way for better management to fall into place....moreover it might be a good thing to let go of such things as stray incidences (if at all its true)...

 

[happyhindu]

We are cogenital warring groups.

Nobody needs to be congenital warring groups....even when people get a horoscope read, the idea is to know pariharams to fix the situation or lessen ill-effects...here, obviously "knowing" is to be able to fix it...ofcourse nobody needs to give up culture..its about being supportive and making place for accomodativeness for one another...well, there is always a garden of eden for better relationships...

 

[s007bala]

Ya,give and take policy

sb

 

[tbs]

Ya,give and take policy

sb

The history of the Brahmin community in India begins with the Vedic
religion of early Hinduism, now often referred to by Hindus as
Sanatana Dharma
The Vedas are considered Śruti (that which is heard) and are the
paramount source of Brahmin traditions. Shruti includes not only the
four Vedas (the Rigveda, the Yajurveda, the Samaveda and the
Atharvaveda), but also their respective Brahmanas, Aranyakas and
Upanishads.
1.Pancha Gowda and Pancha saraswatha Brahmins
The Brahmin castes may be broadly divided into two regional groups:
Pancha-Gauda Brahmins and Pancha-Dravida Brahmins This has reference
to one shloka, from Rajatarangini of Kalhana which is composed only
in 11th CE .This is the earliest reference we are having now.
2.Translation of sloka as given in Vikipedia-:
Karnataka(Kannada), Telugu (Andhra), Dravida (Tamil and Kerala),
Maharashtra and Gujarat are Five Southern (Panch Dravida).
Saraswata, Kanyakubja, Gauda, Utkala, Maithili are Five Northern
(Pancha Gauda).
This classification occurs in Rajatarangini of Kalhana and is
mentioned by Jogendra Nath Bhattacharya in "Hindu Castes and Sects."
[14]
Panch Gauda detals are as follows: (1) Saraswat,(2) Kanyakubja, (3)
Saryuparin Brahmins (4) Gauda brahmins (including Sanadhyas) (5)
Utkala Brahmins including Bengali, Oriya and Maithili Bahmins
However this grouping fails to give all the Brahmin group names of
the day in different part of India. May divergence from other basic
groups
3.Bihar Brahmins
In Bihar, majority of Brahmins are Kanyakubja Brahmins, Bhumihar
Brahmins and Maithil Brahmins
I think Maithili is familiar grouping to all in south.
4.Gujarat Brahmins
In Gujarat, Brahmins are classified into Eight groups: Anavil
Brahmin, Audichya Brahmins, Bardai Brahmins, Girinarayan Brahmins,
Khedaval, Nagar Brahmins, Shrimali Brahmins, Sidhra-Rudhra Brahmins
and Modh Brahmins. The Modh Brahmins woship Matangi Modheshwari mata
(Modhera) and are mostly found in North Gujarat and in the Baroda
region.

I think Nagar , Sidha-rudra, Modh may be familiar grouping to all
in south.

5. Hariyana Brahmins
In Haryana, the Brahmin are classified in mainly Dadhich_Brahmin,
Gaud Brahmin, Khandelwal Brahmin. But large proportion of Brahmin in
Haryana are Gaud(about 90%).
Goud and Khandelwal may be familiar grouping to all in south.
6.Madhya Pradesh Brahmins
In Madhya Pradesh, the Brahmins are classified in mainly Shri Gaud,
Sanadhya brahmin, Gujar-Gaud Brahmins.
Naramdevs are in high concentration in Nimar (Khandwa and Khargone)
and Bhuvana region (Harda) of Madhyapradesh.

Gujar came familiar to me due to my co-worker there was from Gujar.
Ofcourse Naramdev appear familiar.

7.Maharashtra Brahmins

In Maharashtra, Brahmins are classified into five groups: Chitpavan
Konkanastha Brahmins, Gaud Saraswat Brahmin, Deshastha Brahmin,
Karhade Brahmin, and Devrukhe. As the name indicates, Kokanastha
Brahmin are from Konkan area. Gaud Saraswat Brahmins are from Konkan
region or they may come from Goa or Karnataka, Deshastha Brahmin are
from plains of Maharashtra, Karhade Brahmins are perhaps from
Karhatak (an ancient region in India that included present day south
Maharashtra and northern Karnataka) and Devrukhe Brahmins are from
Devrukh near Ratnagiri.
Of these Chitpavan and Gowda saraswath may be familiar grouping to
all in south I think.
8.Nepal Brahmins
In Nepal, the hill Brahmins are classified in mainly Upadhaya
Brahmin, Jaisi Brahmin and Kumain Brahmins.
Upadhaya Brahmins are supposed to have settled in Nepal long before
the other two groups. Majority of hill Brahmins are supposed to be
of Khasa origin.
Of these Upadhyaya may be familiar grouping to all in south I
think.Of these One Mr Upadhyaya was my co worker in UP ALTTC.
9.Punjab brahmins
In Punjab, they are classified as Saraswat Brahmins.
10 Rajasthan brahmins
In Rajasthan, the Brahmins are classified in mainly Dadhich_Brahmin,
Gaud Brahmin,Sanadhya brahmins, Rajpurohit / Purohit Brahmins, Sri
Gaud Brahmin, Khandelwal Brahmin, Gujar-Gaud Brahmins.
Rajpurohit / Purohit Brahmins are mainly found in Marwar & Godwad
region of Rajasthan.
Shakdweepiya Brahmins are also found at many places in rajasthan
they are the major pujari in many temples of western rajasthan.
Raj purohit and Purohit two groupings I too get familiar
11.Sindh Brahmins
In Sindh, the saraswat Brahmins from Nasarpur of Sindh province are
called Nasarpuri Sindh Saraswat Brahmin. During the India and
Pakistan partition migrated to India from sindh province.
12.UP Brahmins
In Uttar Pradesh from west to east: Sanadhya, Gauda & Tyagi (western
UP), Kanyakubja( Central UP), Sarayuparin (Central Uttar Pradesh,
Eastern, NE,& SE UP) and Maithil(Varanasi), the South western UP,
i.e. Bundelkhand has thick population of Jujhotia brahmins(branch of
Kanyakubja brahmins:ref. Between History & Legendower & Status in
Bundelkhand by Ravindra K Jain).
Mathure or mathuria Brahmins 'choubeys' are limited to Mathura area.
Of course choube, Gauda and Thyagi are familiar to US
13.Brahmins of West bengal
In West Bengal the Brahmins are classified in Barendra & Rarhi
corresponding to the ancient Barendrabhumi (North Bengal) and
Rarhdesh (South Bengal) making present day Bangladesh & West Bengal.
It is also said that Barendras are traditional Brahmins who
practiced the art of medicinal science and surgury rather than the
traditional function of being the teacher or the priest, and so many
a times they are not considered true brahmins by the Rarhis,
although they are their own offshoots.
The traditional accounts of the origin of Bengali Brahmins are given
in texts termed Kulagranthas (e.g., Kuladīpīkā), composed around
the
17th century.

They mention a ruler named Ādiśūra who invited five Brahmins
from
Kanyakubja [7], so that he could conduct a yajña, because he could
not find Vedic experts locally
The listing may not be complete. However we will have a birds view
to Pancha Dravida grouping also.

Panch Dravida (the five classes of Southern India): 1) Andhra, 2)
Dravida (Tamil and Kerala), 3) Karnataka, 4) Maharashtra and Konkon,
and 5) Gujarat. They originate from north of the (now-extinct)
Saraswati River.[15]

14.Brahmins of Andhra pradesh

 

[tbs]

brahmins

14.Brahmins of Andhra pradesh

In Andhra Pradesh, Brahmins are broadly classified into 2 groups:
Vaidika (meaning educated in vedas and performing religious
vocations) and Niyogi (performing only secular vocation). They are
further divided into several sub-castes. However, majority of the
Brahmins, both Vaidika and Niyogi, perform only secular professions.
[16]

15Brahmins of Karnataka

In Karnataka, Brahmins are mainly classified into Havyaka speaking
Havigannada, Hoysala Karnataka speaking kannada, Shivalli and Kota
speaking Tulu, Karahada speaking Marathi and have their own
tradition and culture.

16.Brahmins of Kerala
In Kerala, Brahmins are classified into three groups: Namboothiris,
Pottis and Pushpakas. (Pushpakas are commonly clubbed with
Ampalavasi community). The major priestly activities are performed
by Namboothiris while the other temple related activities known as
Kazhakam are performed by Pushpaka Brahmins and other Ampalavasis
The Namboothiri Brahmins, Potti Brahmins and Pushpaka Brahmins in
Kerala follow the Philosophies of Sri Adi Sankaracharya. The
Brahmins who migrated to Kerala from Tamil Nadu are known as Pattar
in Kerala. They possess almost same status of Potti Brahmins in
Kerala.
17Brahmins of Tamilnadu
In Tamil Nadu, Brahmins belong to 2 major groups: Iyer and Iyengar.
Iyers comprise of Smartha and Saivite Brahmins and are broadly
classified into Vadama, Vathima, Brhatcharnam, Ashtasahasram,
Sholiyar and Gurukkal. There are mostly followers of Adi
Shankaracharya and form about three-fourths of Tamil Nadu's Brahmin
population.
Iyengars comprise of Vaishnavite Brahmins and are divided into two
sects: Vadakalai and Thenkalai. They are mostly followers of
Ramanuja and make up the remaining one-fourth of the Tamil Brahmin
population.
18.I got the follwing new informations too.
1.'Brahmakshatriyas'

Brahmins with the qualities of Kshatriyas are known
as 'Brahmakshatriyas'. An example is the avatara Parshurama who
destroyed the entire Haiheyas 21 times. Not only did Sage
Parashurama have warrior skills but he was so powerful that he could
even fight without the use of any weapons and trained others to
fight without weapons.

I recollect here Pandalam Royal palace site calling them as descends
of Parasurama

The Pallavas were an example of Brahmakshatriyas as that is what
they called themselves. Perhaps the word Brahma-kshatriya refers to
a person belonging to the heritage of both castes.[24] However,
among the Royal Rajput households, brahmins who became the personal
teachers and protectors of the Royal princes rose to the status of
Rajpurohit and taught the princes everything including martial arts.
They would also become the keepers of the Royal lineage and its
history
2.'Brahmvyasya
Brahmins with the qualities of a Vaisya or merchant are known
as 'Brahmvyasya'. An example of such persons are people of the
Ambastha[26] caste, which exist in places like South India and
Bengal. They perform medical work - they have from ancient times
practiced the Ayurveda and have been Vaidyas (or doctors)


regards
tbs

 

[rrvvvr]

Dear all,

To ensure that the topic doesn't get diverted, I am chipping in. It was an informative write up from tbs. But you would have observed that it is only in tamilnadu, bs are divided on the basis of vishnu and siva. Bs in rest of the country are divided on the basis of their task, function etc., In TN first we start by asking whether the person is I or IG. Further details come later. This is not the case in AP or Kar or Ker or UP. I suggest we in TN should realise this and start spreading the message that all of us should stand united in this time of crisis. All all Iyers visit Vishnu temples, all IGs should start visiting siva, Murugan temples. Come let us make a beginning.

 

[prabhakaran123]

it is not that we are dis united
wew are egosistic one brahmin does not accept the inteligent of thernd evry brahmin considers himself to be leader. this is the curse. moe than tht the religious gurus themselves fight and differ on many issues. at last it was expected when the on slaught was made on h h. shri jayendra saraswatiga, whether right or not , i expected the othre shankarachriyars like h h. sringeri math, and othrs give a call
and suport the call. instead they remaned slent.
only puri sankarachariar suported the saint.
even in tamil nadu the support was poor, nly VHP of north supported the attack on shri sankaracharyar as an attack on hinduism.

we or more orthodox but dont have bakthi in heart.

this is the malady of the society.
prabhakaran.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri rrvvr Ji,

With all due respect, Smarthas will go on visiting All temples, most of the Shaivites will visit only Shiva temples and most of the Vaishnavites (Iyengars and Madhwas) will visit only Vishnu temples.

There is nothing wrong with that. We have different Sambradhayams, and like having differences even in how the food is prepared and served, these are 'cultural' aspects, and should be left as they are. Over time these will change on their own accord.

What is more important though is to recognize these differences and respect them all equally without judging. When a Smartha says 'Advaitha' is the only way or a person following Sri Ramanuja says that 'Visishtadwaitham' is the only way, the problem with unity starts. Instead if they both say such and such is the ONLY WAY FOR ME and also say, I recognize that what you are observing may be the ONLY WAY FOR YOU, then unity can be acheived with diversity.

The fundamental rule in living in peace and comity among others is to empathise with others' right to practice what they were taught growing up - be it religion, customs, eating habits, dressing habits, education, social status etc.

Just my humble 2 cents.

Regards,
KRS

Dear all,

To ensure that the topic doesn't get diverted, I am chipping in. It was an informative write up from tbs. But you would have observed that it is only in tamilnadu, bs are divided on the basis of vishnu and siva. Bs in rest of the country are divided on the basis of their task, function etc., In TN first we start by asking whether the person is I or IG. Further details come later. This is not the case in AP or Kar or Ker or UP. I suggest we in TN should realise this and start spreading the message that all of us should stand united in this time of crisis. All all Iyers visit Vishnu temples, all IGs should start visiting siva, Murugan temples. Come let us make a beginning.

 

[tbs]

Dear Sri rrvvr Ji,

With all due respect, Smarthas will go on visiting All temples, most of the Shaivites will visit only Shiva temples and most of the Vaishnavites (Iyengars and Madhwas) will visit only Vishnu temples.

There is nothing wrong with that. We have different Sambradhayams, and like having differences even in how the food is prepared and served, these are 'cultural' aspects, and should be left as they are. Over time these will change on their own accord.

What is more important though is to recognize these differences and respect them all equally without judging. When a Smartha says 'Advaitha' is the only way or a person following Sri Ramanuja says that 'Visishtadwaitham' is the only way, the problem with unity starts. Instead if they both say such and such is the ONLY WAY FOR ME and also say, I recognize that what you are observing may be the ONLY WAY FOR YOU, then unity can be acheived with diversity.

The fundamental rule in living in peace and comity among others is to empathise with others' right to practice what they were taught growing up - be it religion, customs, eating habits, dressing habits, education, social status etc.

Just my humble 2 cents.

Regards,
KRS

hi all
how about a iyer boy marrying a iyengar girl and iyengar girl marrying
iyer boy ...its better than marrying a NB girl/boy...like saathamudhu
with rasam........thirukkkannamuthu with payasam..........thaligai
with samaiyal........we are the most ego/hypocratic community in the
world.......sorry for that.........we can't accept sub sect within smarthas.....like somebody said........jewish and tamil brahmins
are god's chosen ppl........but we loose our identity soon..

regards

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri tbs Ji,

Many Brahmin families that I know are now inter-marrying. But there are still quite a number of orthodox folks in all our different communities. Change will happen according its own time. Please don't dispair!

Also, just to clarify. Jews view themselves as 'God's chosen people' not in the way of one who is 'privileged'. They think that He has chosen them to carry the burdens of the entire world. You can appreciate that Christ, a jew, applied this to carrying Himself the whole burden (sin) of humanity.

Ironically, we the Brahmins were supposed to do the same for our communities. We are supposed to carry the civilization of all the Hindus on our back. But not today.

Regards,
KRS

hi all
how about a iyer boy marrying a iyengar girl and iyengar girl marrying
iyer boy ...its better than marrying a NB girl/boy...like saathamudhu
with rasam........thirukkkannamuthu with payasam..........thaligai
with samaiyal........we are the most ego/hypocratic community in the
world.......sorry for that.........we can't accept sub sect within smarthas.....like somebody said........jewish and tamil brahmins
are god's chosen ppl........but we loose our identity soon..

regards

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

To be united one necessarily need not adopt marriage as the tool... it should be the common recognition of the community and a sincere effort to uplift the same for mutual benefits...

The divide is particularly vitriolic as it follows different philosophies and has become sort of separate identities... with a strong ego underlying it... I guess we can expect to be bashed around by anti brahmin groups until such time common sense prevails...

 

[lankalover]

Iyer vs iyengar

Yeah, you are spot on in this issue. But, of late, iyengars have discarded most of the things which held them away from iyers and have also started forging matrimonial alliances. I myself was approached by a few iyengars for marriage.

In fact, i look forward to the day when we - iyers & iyengars - shed all our inhibitions and unite for the larger well being of our communities.

May good sense prevail.

Lankalover

i always had a feeling that nbs are able to exploit bs only because we lack unity. Particularly among tamil bs, the divide bet iyers and iyengars is too much. Externally they may not show this, but internally there is a feeling of contempt for each other's practices. This is must stop forthwith. Afterall all of us are suffering equally at the hands of nbs. How does it matter whether we follow siva or vishnu? Particularly iyengars show display this by not visiting non vishnavite temples and in their names. This generation can't spell the difference between dwaitam and adwaitam wh differentiated sankaracharya from ramanujar, but still believes in maintaining the feud.i dont intend raising fingers at anybody but request that all of us should unite and stand as one. I dont expect this thread to spill ill feelings amongst each other but only put forth productive suggestions to contribute to the cause of our unity. Let us take a oath to visit both shiva and vishnu temples, name our dear ones after both lords and show respect for each other's practices, infact learn from each other.

 

[s007bala]

There are only two species-man & woman.Any man and any woman can marry and live happily,provided the society they live in allows such freedom,and they themselves are free from any peer pressures.This is the original truth.

sb

 

[lankalover]

Two species/genders

Hello.., nice to see your comments, bala...

If it is as simple as you have mentioned here, then you and i would not be in tamil brahmins' website/blog....!

Anyways, lets hope things/the world change for better and mankind is known only by the two genders.

Ciao....!

Vsk iyer

ps: Btw, whats your gender? M, or..., f?

===========================

there are only two species-man & woman.any man and any woman can marry and live happily,provided the society they live in allows such freedom,and they themselves are free from any peer pressures.this is the original truth.

Sb