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Un-divided India

  • Thread starter Thread starter s007bala
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s007bala

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While living in India,i never knew this Jammu & Kashmir issue between India & Pakistan,were tinder-box like issue.After being a resident of USA,i realise,that Pakistan is standing on three legs,for it's sustenance.The first being China,the second being Saudi Arabia and the third being USA/UK.For all the three legs of Pakistan,Indians ie majority Hindus are the targets.

One can call it harvest of souls in religious parlance or Harvest of ideologies thru Mind.China has brilliantly exclaimed that how Indians conqured their hearts & minds in the past generation.But todays China follows a peculiar kind of Communism braized with confuciousnism.Pakistan has donated land from J & K to China,thinking its porumboke land aka Gandhi Kannakku.Gleefully China is an occupant of those lands.China is one of the members of UN Security Council.

Even though Saudi Arabia was/is patron saint of Pakistan ( Faislabad ) aka Islamabad,when other Arab Islamic countries shieks started funding Pakistan,the frenzy to prove how Islamic converted hindus of todays Pakistan are,they go with an all out attempt to fix Christians like Brits/Americans/French/Deutchs/.........etc covertly.9/11 perpetrators got training & funding thru hawala transactions,originating in Islamabad.

Americans by nature,i have begun to realise,hold an extra-ordinary special relationship with Brits.You scratch my back i scratch my back kinda thingy.So much so,Yanks have been fooled again by Brits,to do their bidings.Whether majority American population realise this or not,at least the ruling class of political/military leaders have pulled wool over the eyes of common american citizens.

For Americans,its about possesing the lands in Afghanistan for oil pipelines,so that businessmen can thrive.I have noticed common American citizens are left out in various bailouts and only the rich creamy in society is getting away with it.Neither the occupation in Iraq nor war on terror in Afghanistan,has improved the lives of common man ie American citizens at large.

I still don't get it.Why negotiations fail?Is war always the answere.?Or are we still animals deep down?

Please lets discus,with context with which 11/26 in Mumbai flared,as its a decoy,by Talibanistic Jihadi Groups in tandem with powers in Pakistan,be it civilian/Military.Again,the common citizen of Pakistan,is blissfully un-aware of the crores of rupees stashed away by Pakistani Civilian Leadership as well as Military Leadership.

Only if there is constant conflict set up between Pakistan & India,will other super-powers be able to sell their arms & ammunition,so that their economies thrive.Are both Pakistanis & Indians ie leaderships so naive to not see,whats going on.

USA,CHINA,FRANCE,RUSSIA,UNITED KINGDOM( all security council members with veto option )....are selling arms to India as well as Pakistan,rofl.They are part of UN Security Council.When i read,evidence being given to USA,FRANCE,CHINA,SAUDI ARABIA,RUSSIA.....maybe all in United Nations,what will other nationalities think.Nobody will try to help India.Because Pakistan itself does not know how to govern itself.Koranggu Kaila Poo Malai Kodutha Eppadi Irrukum.Koranggu Koranggu welai Seyyum..rofl.

Solution for this,as Obama & Hillary are contemplating,Bill Clinton to be deputed.If one sees how American Pentagon,has demarcated those territories,India will lose,Jammu & Kashmir.If it has not already lost it.

Very bad.

sb:crazy:
 
Jinnah looked upon Kashmir as the apple of his eye... It was painful for him that he could not annex it during his time...

The agreement that J&K would form a part of India (by Hari Singh), I think may be time bound (not sure about it). Then it seems that a plebiscite would decide as to the status of the state... This has formed the crux of the issue now.

Please see this link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2511438/Letter-From-Maharaja-Hari-Singh-to-Lord-Mount-Batten-by-Asif-Raja

The book "Freedom at Midnight" explains how patan hordes were sent to capture the state; and as a result Hari Singh had signed the accession to India. India has claimed it ever since, not going for the plebiscite.

Pakistan, relentlessly massacred Kashmiri pandits thus turning the area into a Hindu minority. Moreover, infiltrations frequently occur thus enabling Pakistani jihadis from settling in J&K as ordinary citizens. Obviously, then the result of the plebiscite would favour Pakistan.

I have heard that professors in JNU actively campaign for the independence of Kashmir.

So, seems that this is not a conflict simply to mislead people; rather the Pakistanis deem it their right to annex Kashmir. And that is why negotiations always fail - India and Pakistan are at parallels as regards the issue of Kashmir.

There are talks here that Indian muslims are taken to Pakistan via the Gulf, and given training in arms... Anything can happen in this country!!! Whatever happens in this part of the world is a closely guarded secret...

Dawood has a big Villa here and he celebrated his daughter's wedding ina lavish style... why did not Indian Govt. pressurise the Gulf countries to hand him over? No bilateral relations? What sort of a political clout do we have?

There are a lot more subvert actions here than meets the eye. Of course Saudi is funding Pakistan, as it is viewed as an important stronghold in the East.

A third party arbitration would inevitably go for plebiscite as the last option, given the fact that India and Pakistan are at opposite stands and could never compromise. This would obviously lead to J&K joining Pakistan - that is too obvious now with the amount of infiltration and Kashmir-Liberation movements... and this is the main reason why India does not favour a third party involvement.

If Kashmir separates, then other states could well take the cue...we already have parties giving clandestine and public calls for "Thani Thamizhagam"... which is another lurking danger.

Hence, this conflict is bound to continue till eternity... unless and until one of the countries compromises its stand on Kashmir. But that may never happen. Failing which, incidents such as 26/11 would continue to happen - of course sparked by Pakistan.

Surgical strikes should have been done immediately after the blasts thus dealing a body blow to Pakistan when it had not time to organize... it is too late now...

Pakistan were divided into pro-taliban and anti-taliban, shia and sunni, pro-US and neutral and were on the brink of collapsing when the Mumbai blasts happenned, this scenario of a common enemy ie., India has somewhat united them. The Govt. of Pakistan seems to fully utilize this opportunity by giving provoking statements and mobilizing its army (show to its people).

There is no apparent solution to this... friendship talks and improving relations are only an illusion. Without putting out the fire of enmity, talks are useless and would not yield any results.

India needs politically strong leaders below the age of 50 years. It should use its diplomacy in the world arena to its advantage.

There is another way of approach. This article beautifully explains it:

http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/de...s-india-inc-govt-must-do-against-pakistan.htm

Regards
 
Hari Singh annexed Jammu & Kashmir.That's it.Jammu & Kashmir is integral part of India.If Pakistan is contesting to the accension,then automatically India has to dispute each every princely state that Pakistan annexed into it fold.

History has proved to Global community,East Pakistanis broke away from West Pakistan,and became Independent as Bangla Desh.Sure,i saw a ton of East Bengalis pouring into Kolkatta.The refugee camps were filling up,like swarms of bees.It was a pitiable plight.

So,trying to ask UN for plesbiscite is totally im-practical.

I think Bill Clinton,will say LOC is the demarcation.Or you never know with Bill.He is one smart President unlike Bush,who did not give a damn to anyother nationalities feeling,and went for the jugular.Go for oil fields and he did it.Iraqis are putty in the hands of Americans.

Soon,i think Pakistan will be putty in American hands too.I must say Gen.Musharaff had us all fooled with his about turn 360 degree when received the telephone call,from Colin Powell,to distance Pakistan from Taliban or else.I think Colin Powell is the greatest Military brains.One phone call,Musharaff peed in his sherwani.But now it appears Musharaff was total acting,fooled Americans including Cheney.Actually,Pakistani Islamic forces have retarded Christian Forces absolute brilliantly,and now putting the pressure of Indian Hindus.

Sardar Man Mohan Singh will never attack Pakistan,as Lahore forms part of his faith.Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born in Lahore.Origination of the great Sikh Khalsa.Neither will BJP attack Pakistan as Advani is from Sindh.These old timers are nostalgic.I don't blame them.

That is why when i read Bhagavath Gita,the entire map itself,totally different.What is called as Middle East,Afghanistan......etc were all part of India,and the folks were Indians with hindu,buddhist,jain,sikh,christian,judaist,islamic ethos.....anyways unless India has support of USA/UK/China/Russia/France...i think Pakistan is a country which is law unto itself.

Obama will not attack Pakistan,rather will ask India to negotiate,is my take.But,then i could be wholly wrong in this geo-political entanglements.

sb
 
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Hari Singh annexed Jammu & Kashmir.That's it.Jammu & Kashmir is integral part of India.If Pakistan is contesting to the accension,then automatically India has to dispute each evry princely state that Pakistan annexed into it fold.
Click to expand...

This is the bone of contention... We, as Indians think that it is our right. But there is an element of suspense as to the stance of India.

Hari Singh's accession might well have been conditional... it is a kind of protection seeking help against invasion. He actually, did want to remain independent, before Pakistan started to squeeze him...

Otherwise, why should all this happen for nothing?

India disputing the LoC is out of bounds as independece and partition go hand in hand... then next Britain would claim India as its own. That reasoning would not fetch results...

Why does not India publish its accession agreement in black and white and explain its unrivalled stand with respect to J&K thus resolving the matter once and for all?

Negotiations would never yield results on this issue... one of the countries has to compromise.... my opinion.

Regards
 
Now i am getting confused.The link about the letter to lord mountbatten,clearly says Hari Sing has thrown his lot with India NOT Pakistan.Where is the ambiguity.?

In a indirect way UK is controlling India,using USA.My irritation is,insted of capturing Osama Bin Laden ,Mullah Omar and other such Jihadi numbskulls,why Pakistan is doing this to Americans?The kind of support Americans have given Pakistan,those people ie Pakistani Military should have volunteered alongside NATO forces.Instead,Pakistanis are ruining American chances of capturing,the terrorists.

India was happpily progressing and doing wonders with American support,suddenly these Pakistanis created a decoy.Obviously the drones are hitting home in North West Province,and a pincer effect is being felt by fundu jihadis.

Pakistan should be nabbing all these culprits and prove its innocent,Right now,every nationality in the world is totally suspicious of Pakistan and its intent.They say one thing and do the opposite.Even current Americans administration is fed up with Pakistani,double speak double game.

I think,Pakistanis hate themselves becoz they were forcibly converted to Islam for 800 years of Islamic Terrorism of Mughals.They have gone mad.Paglas they have become.So,let them become Christians, then after all they like to convert from one to another,geez man.I cannot believe these guys screwed Americans.

sb
 
It is only a temporary alliance meant for the protection of the state - that is how it was intented by Hari Singh.

After that plebiscite is the suggested way out.

That is the problem.
 
UN has already said plescbicite is not possible after all these years.So,i think,LOC is the final border between Pak and India.Good .Hope they settle this nonsense.There are better things for humanity,unlike this lattu biz.

In 1971 itself Indira Gandhi should have dealt it and finished this dispute,Like a moron,Bhutto lied to her.All this Bhutto,especially that Zia -Ul-Haq.No wonder the Americans CIA and ISI bumped him off alongwith their own agents in air accident.

Why cannot these Pakistanis understand,Americans are all powerful.Taking punga with Americans,they will get squished.

sb
 
That, I think is something which cannot be digested by the Pakistanis... it also could mean losing self-respect to a kafir...

America has really started paying attention (even though they knew all along) only after 9/11... after the American citizens got horror-stricken on seeing the brutal act of the islamic terrorists...

Also, relying solely on US may not also be the right kind of diplomacy... no one is a friend... got to remember that.

On the other hand, US is trying to garner allies by making deals with countries like India - that is a smart move. As India is one of the powers to reckon now, the balance of power has shifted towards us.

US has had a history of its own fire buring its backside... arms supplied to countries by the US tend to do a 360 degree turn.

I still think that negotiations are a faraway dream. Any Govt. in Pakistan that supports relinquishing rights to Kashmir would see its doom. And very much a similar situation in India too.

My opinion - we lost the golden opportunity to cleanse PoK and the militant borders of Pakistan after the 26/11...
 
Seshu

I personally have a grudging respect for both India & Pakistan.Both have not done foolish thing of going to war.Even though its kinda wimpy,but at least people are alive,which is most important.With people dying pre-maturely in war,is total bogus in this era.I know for sure,after 12.21.2012,its golden period..just feel it in my bones...

sb:)
 
So, maybe our ruling Govt. believes in doomsday... ahh... now there is something in what you say...

There are things which ought to be done for a greater cause... and that is what makes the army guys a step above the civilians... as there is no greater sacrifice than one's life. If even, deterrent strikes are to be avoided, pray, what is the necessity for an army.

I think otherwise Shriman.
 
Shri Seshadri

Military guy's die for us,I get that.I am eternally grateful for that and to their kith & kin.But war should be the last option.India is second largest nation in population or has overtaken China.Pakistan gets tremendous support from China,as China is doing,what is being done to them thru Taiwan.I get it.But its people wherever you go.They are divine.We should not let asura forces overtake deva forces.Though of course Lord Krishna tries to negotiate too,but Duryodhana refuses to give land to Pandavas.So,you are prolly right,this troops alignment by Pakistan,is subtle way of putting pressure on Americans.

Pakistan,is really,a super braniac.As with little pinky finger its,aattufying Americans.One word-unbelievable.

sb
 
Russia attacked Georgia and today Israel has struck the Gaza strip...

There is an intent conveyed through strikes... We had the world on our side during the initial aftermath and we lost that opportunity.

Had we done that, the world counties would definitely have intervened to end an all out war...

US is probably in a devil's paradise... as regards Pakistan.
 
Russians attacking Georgia was totally bizarre.I think Putin is miffed with George with missiles in Poland.AS if Iran will get deterred by that.Now President of Russia visited Cuba.I am praying Obama does not have any problem from Cubans.Imagine Bay Of Pigs situation.Total morons.Why can't they let peace be the weapon all times.?

sb
 
I don't know why god is still persecuting jews in Israel.Palestinians are being used by other Islamic nations.But i guess,only god can stop all this NOT humans.I wish humanity learns from past mistakes or is war a neccessary evil.?

sb
 
The manner in which Pakistan got its nukes also,becoz of Americans.Americans turned a Nelson's eye to Pakistani clandestine operation.But then India also clandestine operation of diverting uranium from peaceful purpose to enriching to nuclear device,had the Americans fuming.But George and Sardarji,pulled off a coup with nuke deal.I think electricity will be in abundance in India soon.Thanks to American Technology,as well as Russians in Koodangudalum.

sb
 
The crusades still go on in "The Kingdom of Heaven"... albeit with sophisticated weaponry....:wave:

I guess, there is no straight answer as to support a war... it is conditional. But maybe everyone has a different viewpoint....

Would God intervene? Maybe, maybe not.... maybe he has given us a sign that if we do not stop all these acts of violence, he is gonna regress us back to the stone age - remember 2012?
 
Ayyo.Whats with 2012 thingy.We all will be fine.I just know it. :)

I just hate war.Because i saw all those kids from East Pakistan in Kolkatta.It's traumatised me.I hate wars.

God will not stop wars.We have our Gita to prove that.So,American Kshatriyas will kick butts in Afghanistans with NATO,Pakistan forces.Definitely.

sb
 
Seshadri Subramaniam said:
I am just digging it... ok... would not touch on 2012...

I am for peace.... :yield:
Click to expand...
HI SESH SIR,
namaskarams......i served indian army for 17 years and veteren now..
i saw Kargil war and served in Siachen sector.....but im just mute..
you are discussing war..........i know war in reality.......so no
comments........

Regards
tbs
 
With due respects Shri tbs,

My uncle is a Lt. clnl.( he served in Jammu/Assam among a host of other places) and my chithappa is a retired Major... I guess, given our army size, the probability of a military guy in 100 families could be quite high...

Though not intricate, I have had several conversations with my uncle about various topics in the army - starting from downright corruption, to morale of the Jawans when leading an operation.

Not all of us can know everything - I try to make the most use of my knowledge in co-relating things based on my perception. Agreed that it could be quite dangerous and misleading, but I guess, that is my way...

Thanks
 
If India and Pakistan go to war again,it will be really very bad.Total moronic thing to do.Pakistan is helpless not knowing how to govern itself,thru civilian or military leadership.Its time Americans occupy Pakistan-best solution.Then the circuit will be complete.

sb
 
India is silently taking all measured steps in keeping Pakistan under check, in the aftermath of Mumbai 26/11 attacks. It may take some time to bear fruit.

Mobilising international opinion against Pakistan-originated terror is gathering momentum. That apart, Pakistan does not have enough forex reserves even for paying oil imports. If I am right their forex reserves are less than USD 3bn and will be sufficient only to cover just
2 to 3 weeks imports. Therefore, India must persuade and convince USA, UK, France and Japan and China and also our friendly nations in the middle east to impose economic sanctions against Pakistan.

If that happens, it is more than declaring a military war and winning it too. The option I propose will prevent loss of precious Indian lives and the economic holocaust that may follow. The Pakistani military, directed by the Taliban, JEM, Lashkar-e-Taiba and their ilks, may foolishly opt for nuclear strike also, on India, without knowing the real consequences. If it happens, Pakistanis will be decimated in toto and no one on the earth can stop Pakistan from disappearing from the world map, permanently.
 
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