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Think or sink!

sankara_sharmah

Active member
Maa Visalakshi,

Bhakthi is not exclusive only to Vaishnavism, however loudly they may claim. The Nayanmars started the Bhakthi movement and were some of the greatest Bhakthas. The Saktha Bhakthi movement of Bengal is well known. Ram Prasad Sen was a great Kali Bhaktha.

I am sorry. I thought I should bring this to your attention.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Bhakti is more closely related to faith in God than knowledge of scriptures or atma gnaanam.

The pegans have more bhakti than the pundits since they can see God in trees, plants, rivers, land, animals and almost everything.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
What was the Atma gnanam in Bhata Kannappa naayanar?
His intense love for God was his bhakti and
not his superior knowledge about anything.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Bakthi is Bakthi . I do not think GOD differentiates between these purely academic classifications. Kannappa Nayanar and Purandara Dasa were both Bakthas. GOD was pleased with both of them. That is what we believe in.

Thamasic, Rajasaic, Sattvic. These are mere Academic categorizations. There is not much difference between the Academics of today and the academics who wrote our scriptures.

An example of this is the classification of Puranas.

Vishnu, Narada, Padma, Garuda, Varaha and Bhagavata are
Satvika Puranas. Brahma, Brahmavaivartha, Brahmaanda, Markandeya, Bhavishya and Vaamana are Rajasika Puranas and Siva, Linga, Skanda, Agni, Matsya and Kurma are Tamasika Puranas.



I need not say which sect did this classification or why?

The same about classification of Gods/Goddesses.

I have not only thought about it, but done a lot of reading and written about it.

Human beings have these three temperaments namely Rajasic, Tamasic and Satvic.

In fact my guru used to say that these three moods prevail in the same person during different times of the day.

So the same qualities are projected on everything man wants to describe or explain.

Brahma became Rajasic, Siva Taamasi and Vishnu Satvic.
Saraswathi became Rajasic, Durga Tamasic and Lakshmi Satvic.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Maa Visalakshi,

Bhakthi is not exclusive only to Vaishnavism, however loudly they may claim. The Nayanmars started the Bhakthi movement and were some of the greatest Bhakthas. The Saktha Bhakthi movement of Bengal is well known. Ram Prasad Sen was a great Kali Bhaktha.

I am sorry. I thought I should bring this to your attention.

Did I give any hint anywhere that bhakti is propagated ONLY by the Vaishnavites?

Not to my knowledge!

Dravida region is the birth place of bhakthi movement and it includes the six religions...the worship of Siva, Vishnu, Shakti, Ganesh, Skandan and Sun God.

It is a group of the six schools of Indian religions called Sauram (Sun worship), Ganapatyam (Ganapathy worship), Kaumaram (Murugan worship), Vaishnavam (Vishnu worship), Saktham (Sakthy worship) and Saivam (Siva worship).


By the way there was one other person who used to call me Maa!

He had a very powerful avatar too. I made fun of one of his posts and he vanished into thin air.

To this day I am repenting for having played tomfoolery with a serious and sensitive person like him and the light hearted jokers alike! :tsk:
 

sankara_sharmah

Active member

Human beings have these three temperaments namely Rajasic, Tamasic and Satvic.

In fact my guru used to say that these three moods prevail in the same person during different times of the day.

So the same qualities are projected on everything man wants to describe or explain.

Brahma became Rajasic, Siva Taamasi and Vishnu Satvic.
Saraswathi became Rajasic, Durga Tamasic and Lakshmi Satvic.
When we worship GOD are we bothered about these purely academic classification? NO. Today being a Monday. I saw a long line of young girls at the Shiva temple doing abhishekam, bilva archanai and some of them even hugging the Siva Linga. They are all praying for a good husband. Do they know or even if they know bother about the classifications by book writers of Siva as thamasic? NO.

There are more Amman temples in Tamil Nadu than any other temple. Mostly Kali, Mariamman, Renuka and other goddesses. Devotees go there because they believe that these Goddesses protect them. Protect them from evil. Not many temples for Lakshmi. Why? People need protection more than wealth. Do these devotees bother about the classification? NO.

BTW these classifications are basically Sankya Philosphy. Bhagavad Gita which is basically a Sankhya text emphasizes thus.

The classification of God/goddesses suffer one major handicap. Tamas is also a Guna or Quality that is much needed to counter Evil, Tamas cannot be counteracted by tamas. How does Durga becomes Tamasic when all her stories are about her overcoming the Asuras?

These classifications are highly subjective and arbitrary.

I had posted the example of the classification of Puranas in my earlier post to show how these writers played sectarian politics with these classifications.
 
Last edited:

tks

Well-known member
sankara_sharmah;170242 [B said:
Bhakthas are fanatics. Bhakthi does lead to fanaticism.[/B] I can understand why some member defends the God whom he worships. Though he may quote books, the basic feeling is Bhakthi.

Fanatic devotion is Bhakthi.


Fanatic devotion to anything is Fanaticism.
Unfortunately Bhakthi is understood this way because of overall lack of knowledge that pervades due to all that one hears from the so called Bhakthas
 

tks

Well-known member
Bhakthi comes from the heart. It is a feeling, an emotion. It does not come by reading text books or by performing any ritual.

.

.



But then I was shocked when I heard a respected scholar say that You have to reach the stage of Atma Chaitanyam through Jnana yoga before becoming a Bhaktha.

.
.
The respected scholar may be somewhat right though if he knew what he was teaching it would not be as transcribed above. There is no time order here -There is a unification of knowledge giving rise to Bhakthi and vice versa.

If anyone is preaching that one has to 'become something' it is a hint to stay away since that is not a sign of scholarship.
 

sankara_sharmah

Active member
I remember the discussion I had in a religious forum about Bhakthi a couple of years back. I said that all the people coming to temples are Bhakthas. The counter argument was that "only people who seek spiritual salvation can be termed Bhakthas. Those who seek material benefits can not be termed as Bhakthas." There were more than 100 posts with most people quoting religious texts to buttress their arguments.

Though I continued posting in that forum, that was the last I posted about Bhakthi. That forum is defunct now.

I do not think you need any qualifications to be considered a Bhaktha. Only devotion is sufficient.

The purpose of Devotion is not a consideration.

This is proved by the stories of Bhakthas. Many of the Bakthas started out seeking material benefits and ended up by gaining in spirituality. The Bhakthas who could not progress spiritually were left behind.

The Bhakthas who seek materiel benefits are on the right path. But they have the wrong goals/destination. They may realize their mistake and reach the right goal/destination.

Sometime back I had written an article about Tantra and Bhakthi. How a Tantrik is basically a Bhakta even while following Tantric rituals. That may not be of interest to members of this forum where there are almost no Tantriks.

The traditional/ritualistic Hinduism had no other option but to include Bhakthi, because of the popularity of the Bhakthi movement. It was a question of their survival.

But still the contempt for Bhakthi does continue. They would like to view all Bhakthas as illiterate people. Bhakthi is not the current fashion. It is not modern.

Puja and japa are considered old fashioned. Meditation is the in thing. Vedanta is in.

My Guru warned me repeatedly about this. He said "An ounce of practice is better than a tonne of theory."

I have chosen this path after seeking for about 20 years and trying out other paths.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
ref # 26.

I have been under the impression that asuras are Rajasic in temperament since they are always active and busy seeking unlimited power and pleasure.

If I am correct in saying this, can it mean that Durga can be Tamasic and still conquer the Rajasic asuras?
:confused:
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
ref #29.
My Guru warned me repeatedly about this. He said "An ounce of practice is better than a tonne of theory."

I have chosen this path after seeking for about 20 years and trying out other paths.


dear sir,
Does this path mean the Bhakti maargam???
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Bhakti should be a natural form of LOVE similar to that
a mother has for her child or the child has for its mother.
Nobody need tell the mother or the child to love each other.
God is our mother, father, guru and deivam.
Do we need an education or degree or diploma for loving such a God?
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
# 26.
Not many temples for Lakshmi. Why? People need protection more than wealth. Do these devotees bother about the classification? NO.


Actually those who have loads of money
need more protection than those who don't have it.

Yoga kshemam is indeed a difficult task.

So even if Lakshmi Devi is with us
we still need Durga Devi to protect us
as well as our Lakshmi Devi.
 

sankara_sharmah

Active member
ref # 26.

I have been under the impression that asuras are Rajasic in temperament since they are always active and busy seeking unlimited power and pleasure.

If I am correct in saying this, can it mean that Durga can be Tamasic and still conquer the Rajasic asuras?
:confused:

In the holistic-universal creation Tamas is where the demons and asuras dwell, their energy is purely tamas since Tamas can't be controlled by mortal energy,vedic philosophy dictatesSattva as the preferred guna.
Tamas (philosophy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whoever wrote earlier and now this wanted us to believe that only Vishnu who is Sattvic can overcome the Asuras.

Fortunately Devi put an end to this.

This was written to counter Saivism. But Sakthism which tried to put an end to the Siva/Vishnu conflict by promoting the concept of the Ultimate Reality being a Female put a spoke in the wheel.
 

sankara_sharmah

Active member
ref #29.
My Guru warned me repeatedly about this. He said "An ounce of practice is better than a tonne of theory."

I have chosen this path after seeking for about 20 years and trying out other paths.


dear sir,
Does this path mean the Bhakti maargam???
The only way is Total Surrender. Saranagathi. Easy to preach, but extremely difficult to practice.

मत्समः पातकी नास्ति पापघ्नी त्वत्समा न हि ।
एवं ज्ञात्वा महादेवि यथा योग्यं तथा कुरु ॥ १२ ॥

matsamah pataki nasti papaghni tvatsama na hi
evam jnatva mahadevi yatha-yogyam tatha kuru

O, Mahadevi, Great Goddess, there is no sinner like me on the earth
and there is no other person condoning the sins except you. Knowing
all this, you do whatever you think is fit. ( I take the meaning as whatever you think I deserve)
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Feminine power is immeasurable indeed.

We all know this saying,
"Aavathum peNNale! Azhivathum peNNaale!"

All powers, wealth, knowledge, mental and physical abilities,
and all the holy things are assigned female names.

My father always used to say "Durga, Lakshmi, Saraswathi"
and never "Krishna, Rama, Govinda!"

I thought that the sequence Durga, Lakshmi, Saraswathi was due to the qualities assigned to them.

But now I feel that as the father of four daughters, he knew the importance of protection more than wealth or knowledge.
:hail:
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Holding on to is so much easier than letting it go!

Even a baby monkey holds on, tighter than we can!

It is the sweet little kitten that trusts its mother completely
and gets complete protection from her.

We should become like the all trusting kittens and not the
all tight holding monkeys that we really are.

We hold on to every single thing in our lives
except the one thing we should, namely God.
 

Raji Ram

Well-known member
Re-posting is allowed! So here is a poem relevant to this quote:

We hold on to every single thing in our lives
except the one thing we should, namely God.

என்றும் துணை!

ரயில் பெட்டியில் கிடந்த ஒரு பர்ஸை

ரயில் டிக்கட் பரிசோதகர் கண்டவுடன்,

'இது யாருடையது?' என்று கேட்டதும்,
'அது என்னுடையது!' என்று முதியவர்

ஒருவர் முன் வந்து சொல்ல, அதிகாரி
ஓர் அடையாளம் கூறும்படிக் கேட்டிட,

'அதில் கண்ணன் படம் உள்ளது' என்று
பதில் கூறிட, 'யார் வேண்டுமானாலும்

கண்ணன் படம் வைக்கலாமே?' என்றிட,
கண்ணன் படக் கதையைச் சொன்னார்!

சின்ன வயதில் அவரின் தாத்தா தந்த
வண்ணப் பர்ஸிலே, தான் மதித்த தன்

பெற்றோரின் படம் வைத்தார்; பின்னர்,
உற்ற பருவத்தில் நண்பர்கள் கிடைக்க,

தன் Group படம் வைத்தார்; அதன் பின்பு,
தன் மனைவி அழகியாய் அமைந்துவிட,

அவள் படத்தையே வைத்து மகிழ்ந்தார்;
அவள் மகனைப் பெற்றுத் தந்தவுடனே

அவள் படத்தை எடுத்துவிட்டு, செல்ல
மகன் படத்தை வைத்துக் கொஞ்சினார்!

தான் முதுமை எய்தியவுடன், இதுவரை
தான் வைத்த படங்களில் இருந்தவர்கள்

எவரும் துணையாக வரவில்லை; இனி
என்றும் துணை கண்ணனே என்றறிந்து,

வண்ணம் போய்ப் பழமையான பர்ஸில்
கண்ணன் படத்தை வைத்ததாகக் கூற,

புன்சிரிப்புடன் பர்ஸைத் தந்த அதிகாரி,
தானும் தேடினார் ஒரு கண்ணன் படம்!


:pray: . . . :hug:
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
It is said the human beings are like logs floating in water.

Some times they are drawn close together and at other times they drift apart.

Those who come closer become the family and friends but

they too move away at different times for different reasons.

The ONLY constant companion is the God within us.

He will linger on whether or not we remember him.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
My dear sister,

Your poems are much appreciated as I can see.

Still some of our friends do not go past GD.

So you are welcome to post anything worth thinking about and
anything discussing the current problems in society / life
here one more time, for the benefit of such members.

As they say If Mohammed will not go to the mountain,
the mountain will have to come to him Mohammed.
 

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