Hello Raju:
As per post # 73, you need to thank the Scriptwriter of that particular movie, and not Mr. Saidevo, as I understand.
Cheers.
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Hello Raju:
As per post # 73, you need to thank the Scriptwriter of that particular movie, and not Mr. Saidevo, as I understand.
Cheers.
namaste Nara and Yamaka.
Nara, you are so predictable! Well, if you're happy to live with your opinions about the Vedas and Vedanta, it is fine with me, although I am not impressed.
You said in post #75:
The great acharyas of Vedantic traditions have asserted that through Vedic rituals one trains his mind to be receptive to spirituality. In that sense, and in the context of Vedanta, spirituality is not far removed from rituals.
To use your favourite clause, this is knotting up the moTTaitthalai and muzhangkAl. With that same logic would you say that high-level science is not far removed from the antics of sports, if a scientist says that a sportsman who knows nothing except his passtime, needs to train his mind in the discipline of science to do research in that field?
Come on Nara, if you can explain in terms of pure science, the individual of Yamaka, specially with regard to how that individual keeps apart from the dual roles of observer and observed, you might have added value to the discussion.
Yamaka,
1. There is a difference between inference and imagination, as you know. The talk about the metaphysical reality in the script is inference, IMO.
2. Metaphysics, IMO, is knowledge obtained by inference from the physical reality of science. Since you dismiss it entirely, what I am going to discuss will surely 'contradict known Science', so I guess you are going to be up and down on your feet, raising objections like a defence lawyer! (No offence meant.) Depending on the context, I may or may not choose to answer to your forthcoming objections.
Nara, you are so predictable! Well, if you're happy to live with your opinions about the Vedas and Vedanta, it is fine with me, although I am not impressed.
You said in post #75:
The great acharyas of Vedantic traditions have asserted that through Vedic rituals one trains his mind to be receptive to spirituality. In that sense, and in the context of Vedanta, spirituality is not far removed from rituals.
To use your favourite clause, this is knotting up the moTTaitthalai and muzhangkAl. With that same logic would you say that high-level science is not far removed from the antics of sports, if a scientist says that a sportsman who knows nothing except his passtime, needs to train his mind in the discipline of science to do research in that field?
Come on Nara, if you can explain in terms of pure science, the individual of Yamaka, specially with regard to how that individual keeps apart from the dual roles of observer and observed, you might have added value to the discussion.
Yamaka,
1. There is a difference between inference and imagination, as you know. The talk about the metaphysical reality in the script is inference, IMO.
2. Metaphysics, IMO, is knowledge obtained by inference from the physical reality of science. Since you dismiss it entirely, what I am going to discuss will surely 'contradict known Science', so I guess you are going to be up and down on your feet, raising objections like a defence lawyer! (No offence meant.) Depending on the context, I may or may not choose to answer to your forthcoming objections.
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What happens when you close your eyes and gently rub your eyelids?
Everyone of us do it, on various occasions. What we usually witness are colorful, beautiful geometrical patterns explanding and exploding. What are they and how are they formed? Here is an explanation from science:
Pitt mathematician tracks origin of hallucinations
Before they ask, let me assure our skeptics here that I have no metaphysical extrapolations of these geometrical patterns.
Everyone of us do it, on various occasions. What we usually witness are colorful, beautiful geometrical patterns explanding and exploding. What are they and how are they formed? Here is an explanation from science:
Pitt mathematician tracks origin of hallucinations
Before they ask, let me assure our skeptics here that I have no metaphysical extrapolations of these geometrical patterns.
"Yamaka,
1. There is a difference between inference and imagination, as you know. The talk about the metaphysical reality in the script is inference, IMO.
2. Metaphysics, IMO, is knowledge obtained by inference from the physical reality of science. Since you dismiss it entirely, what I am going to discuss will surely 'contradict known Science', so I guess you are going to be up and down on your feet, raising objections like a defence lawyer! (No offence meant.) Depending on the context, I may or may not choose to answer to your forthcoming objections."
Hello Saidevo:
Go ahead and make inferences... let's see how intelligible those are.. we will go from there.
You need not respond to my writings at all.... I am not expecting any from a Vedic or Spiritual person! Lol.
Enjoy your metaphysical inferences of Science!
1. There is a difference between inference and imagination, as you know. The talk about the metaphysical reality in the script is inference, IMO.
2. Metaphysics, IMO, is knowledge obtained by inference from the physical reality of science. Since you dismiss it entirely, what I am going to discuss will surely 'contradict known Science', so I guess you are going to be up and down on your feet, raising objections like a defence lawyer! (No offence meant.) Depending on the context, I may or may not choose to answer to your forthcoming objections."
Hello Saidevo:
Go ahead and make inferences... let's see how intelligible those are.. we will go from there.
You need not respond to my writings at all.... I am not expecting any from a Vedic or Spiritual person! Lol.
Enjoy your metaphysical inferences of Science!
Dear Yamaka,
Lo! Whatever revealed itself to you in post #73 was very much visible in post #70 itself. Please go through it again. I am disappointed. My appreciation of Saidevo for his time and effort is despite my knowing the fact that what was given in his post is a copy and edit job.
Cheers.
N
Nara
Guest
not so Saidevo, the acharyas do claim a direct link between rituals and spirituality, not the m to m kind.I am not sure about Adi Sankara, but in SV sampradayam, Karma Yoga is nothing but assiduously performing all the nithyakarmas and other rituals free of desire for any results. They say such performance of rituals prepares the jeeva for the next level of Gyana Yoga, followed by Bhakti Yoga which is a means for liberation/mukthi.
BTW, do you really think Vedanta is not a religion?
Cheers!
The world behind closed eyes: A metaphysical view
The famous prANAyAma mantra that speaks of the saptaloka--seven worlds, (bhUH, bhuvaH, suvaH, mahaH, janaH, tapaH, and satyam) occurs in the taittirIya AraNyakam 10.35.1. As these are material worlds although of subtle matter, each must have their own fundamental units of matter as their building blocks.
• Obviously, since these worlds are of increasingly subtle matter up in the hieararchy (from bhUH to satyam), it can be inferred that each is not a world that is separate from one another, but contained within and permeating one another, just as AkAsha--space/ether permeates every unit of matter in our physical world of earth.
• In other words, all the seven worlds occupy the same space of this prapancham--universe. This in turn means that a yogi can 'travel', i.e. move his consciousness from one world to another, and go up the hiearchy as far as his yoga-siddhi can accomplish.
• This means again that the aNus--fundamental building particle (FBP, let us say), should also be subtler as we go up from bhUH, all contained within and permeating one another. In other words, we can infer that the physical atom as the FBP of this earth, floats in a sea of the FBP of the astral world, which in turn floats in a sea of the FBP of the mental world and so on.
• Theosophy, which was born out of the concepts of Hinduism and Buddhism, has the following names for the seven worlds, with a mention of the size of their FBP.
#...Theosophical Name...........Hindu/Buddhist name...Unit size of FBP
1.. Divine World................Adi/satyam............1
2...Monodic World...............anupadaka/tapaH.......49
3...Spiritual World.............Atmic/janaH...........2,401 (49^2)
4...Causal World (Intutional)...buddhic/mahaH.........117,649 (49^3)
5...Mental World (Intellectual).suvaH.................5,764,801 (49^4)
6...Astral World (Emotional)....kAmaloka/bhuvaH.......282,475,249 (49^5)
7...Physical World (Earth)......bhUH..................13,841,287,201 (49^6)
• Thus, if we take the FBP of the world of satyam, the highest plane of manifest existence, as one, the FBP of the world of tapaH, the next grosser plane can accomodate 49 FBPs of the highest plane and so on. Since all FBPs contain space within them, each grosser FBP floats on the sea of its previous subtler FBP.
Formation of the matter of the seven worlds
How were the FBPs of the highest plane (Adi/saytam) formed in the first place? Theosophy (and possibly the Hindu darshanas) has a theory about it, which is being rediscovered in modern physics as the inflationary theory of the universe.
The popular Theosophists Annie Besant and Charles W. Leadbeater, pioneers in the field of clairvoyant investigations of gross and subtle matter, published their findings in a book titled Occult Chemistry: Clairvoyant Observations on the Chemical Elements. This book anticipated several later discoveries of science, quarks for example.
Three factors were involved in the Theosophical theory of creation of matter: parabrahman, mUlaprakRti and Fohat.
• As Hindus, we are aware of these three factors: parabrahman is the universal divine consciousness, mUlaprakRti is the primordial proto-ether, described as salilam--water, in the famous nAsadIya sUktam of the Rg-veda 10.129. Fohat is the intelligent cosmic force that originated from Brahman and acted on the PrakRti to create material forms. Fohat is described in the nAsadIya sUktam as AnIdavAtaM--breathingless breath/motionless vibration/swelling.
• mUlaprakRti--proto-ether--called initial false vacuum today in science--undergoes expansionary phase-change to become koilon--normal quantum vacuum, driven by Fohat--the unified, intilligent cosmic force--called superforce--which 'blew bubbles'--material particles in an infinitely dense ether.
• Cosmic Fohat, a unified Superforce to start with, subsequently split into the four presently-known natural forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, the strong and the weak nuclear forces.
• Chris Illert, a leading theoretical physicist and mathematician, in his paper Matter as Bubbles in the Aether gives the following analogy to explain it:
The 19th century concepts underlying this occult cosmology are easily visualized in terms of liquid in a cylinder. Fizzing can be induced if the piston is moved; thus did Cosmic Fohat--Superforce--induce a quantum-vacuum transition (Mulaprakriti to Koilon), releasing energy which tore the aether apart into numerous 'subatomic particles'--BUBBLES--which we see as substantial even though they are, in fact, THE ABSENCE OF SUBSTANCE.
• Leadbeater gives another analogy: these 'bubles of matter' are not like the full soap bubbles that detach from their source and float in the air, but like the half bubbles formed on the surface when water is boiled.
A great facility the bubbles have is that they can be easily moved and grouped to shape higher forms of matter; and these higher units of matter--FBPs--that form the six subtler worlds, are highly susceptible to thought.
(to continue...)
The famous prANAyAma mantra that speaks of the saptaloka--seven worlds, (bhUH, bhuvaH, suvaH, mahaH, janaH, tapaH, and satyam) occurs in the taittirIya AraNyakam 10.35.1. As these are material worlds although of subtle matter, each must have their own fundamental units of matter as their building blocks.
• Obviously, since these worlds are of increasingly subtle matter up in the hieararchy (from bhUH to satyam), it can be inferred that each is not a world that is separate from one another, but contained within and permeating one another, just as AkAsha--space/ether permeates every unit of matter in our physical world of earth.
• In other words, all the seven worlds occupy the same space of this prapancham--universe. This in turn means that a yogi can 'travel', i.e. move his consciousness from one world to another, and go up the hiearchy as far as his yoga-siddhi can accomplish.
• This means again that the aNus--fundamental building particle (FBP, let us say), should also be subtler as we go up from bhUH, all contained within and permeating one another. In other words, we can infer that the physical atom as the FBP of this earth, floats in a sea of the FBP of the astral world, which in turn floats in a sea of the FBP of the mental world and so on.
• Theosophy, which was born out of the concepts of Hinduism and Buddhism, has the following names for the seven worlds, with a mention of the size of their FBP.
#...Theosophical Name...........Hindu/Buddhist name...Unit size of FBP
1.. Divine World................Adi/satyam............1
2...Monodic World...............anupadaka/tapaH.......49
3...Spiritual World.............Atmic/janaH...........2,401 (49^2)
4...Causal World (Intutional)...buddhic/mahaH.........117,649 (49^3)
5...Mental World (Intellectual).suvaH.................5,764,801 (49^4)
6...Astral World (Emotional)....kAmaloka/bhuvaH.......282,475,249 (49^5)
7...Physical World (Earth)......bhUH..................13,841,287,201 (49^6)
• Thus, if we take the FBP of the world of satyam, the highest plane of manifest existence, as one, the FBP of the world of tapaH, the next grosser plane can accomodate 49 FBPs of the highest plane and so on. Since all FBPs contain space within them, each grosser FBP floats on the sea of its previous subtler FBP.
Formation of the matter of the seven worlds
How were the FBPs of the highest plane (Adi/saytam) formed in the first place? Theosophy (and possibly the Hindu darshanas) has a theory about it, which is being rediscovered in modern physics as the inflationary theory of the universe.
The popular Theosophists Annie Besant and Charles W. Leadbeater, pioneers in the field of clairvoyant investigations of gross and subtle matter, published their findings in a book titled Occult Chemistry: Clairvoyant Observations on the Chemical Elements. This book anticipated several later discoveries of science, quarks for example.
Three factors were involved in the Theosophical theory of creation of matter: parabrahman, mUlaprakRti and Fohat.
• As Hindus, we are aware of these three factors: parabrahman is the universal divine consciousness, mUlaprakRti is the primordial proto-ether, described as salilam--water, in the famous nAsadIya sUktam of the Rg-veda 10.129. Fohat is the intelligent cosmic force that originated from Brahman and acted on the PrakRti to create material forms. Fohat is described in the nAsadIya sUktam as AnIdavAtaM--breathingless breath/motionless vibration/swelling.
• mUlaprakRti--proto-ether--called initial false vacuum today in science--undergoes expansionary phase-change to become koilon--normal quantum vacuum, driven by Fohat--the unified, intilligent cosmic force--called superforce--which 'blew bubbles'--material particles in an infinitely dense ether.
• Cosmic Fohat, a unified Superforce to start with, subsequently split into the four presently-known natural forces: gravitation, electromagnetism, the strong and the weak nuclear forces.
• Chris Illert, a leading theoretical physicist and mathematician, in his paper Matter as Bubbles in the Aether gives the following analogy to explain it:
The 19th century concepts underlying this occult cosmology are easily visualized in terms of liquid in a cylinder. Fizzing can be induced if the piston is moved; thus did Cosmic Fohat--Superforce--induce a quantum-vacuum transition (Mulaprakriti to Koilon), releasing energy which tore the aether apart into numerous 'subatomic particles'--BUBBLES--which we see as substantial even though they are, in fact, THE ABSENCE OF SUBSTANCE.
• Leadbeater gives another analogy: these 'bubles of matter' are not like the full soap bubbles that detach from their source and float in the air, but like the half bubbles formed on the surface when water is boiled.
A great facility the bubbles have is that they can be easily moved and grouped to shape higher forms of matter; and these higher units of matter--FBPs--that form the six subtler worlds, are highly susceptible to thought.
(to continue...)
Resurrecting the Extinct Animals:
Hello All:
Whether you are God-fearing or Godless (like Y), you would agree that Science has enriched our lives since at least the time of Industrial Revolution.
Now Scientists are trying to Resurrect the Extinct Animals, as shown here in this piece by 60 Minutes in CBS aired on Sep 04, 2011 evening..
60 Minutes Video - Resurrecting the extinct - CBS.com
The interesting idea here is, try to get a "live cell" in the "preserved" extinct animal. Then take the nucleus and put it inside the egg of a very close species (after removing its own nucleus). Activate the egg to divide by "electric shock" or other methods. Then implant cell mass in the uterus of this very close species. Allow it to grow..
Finally what you will get is the Cloning of an Extinct Animal by Cross Species Cloning!
Voila... God destroyed the Species... and Man resurrects the Extinct Species....
That's where Science is moving these days!
Oh God people! Stop your mindless pursuit of the Non-Existent Gods!!
Believe in Science, not in Gods!
Stay tuned.
Hello All:
Whether you are God-fearing or Godless (like Y), you would agree that Science has enriched our lives since at least the time of Industrial Revolution.
Now Scientists are trying to Resurrect the Extinct Animals, as shown here in this piece by 60 Minutes in CBS aired on Sep 04, 2011 evening..
60 Minutes Video - Resurrecting the extinct - CBS.com
The interesting idea here is, try to get a "live cell" in the "preserved" extinct animal. Then take the nucleus and put it inside the egg of a very close species (after removing its own nucleus). Activate the egg to divide by "electric shock" or other methods. Then implant cell mass in the uterus of this very close species. Allow it to grow..
Finally what you will get is the Cloning of an Extinct Animal by Cross Species Cloning!
Voila... God destroyed the Species... and Man resurrects the Extinct Species....
That's where Science is moving these days!
Oh God people! Stop your mindless pursuit of the Non-Existent Gods!!
Believe in Science, not in Gods!
Stay tuned.
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renuka
Well-known member
Anything is possible when God has provided the raw material for scientists.
Anyway "resurrection" of any dead species is nothing new.
Read about King Vena.(how a progeny was produced from the dead King from his own cells).
The article might appear as kind of simple but the whole process might have been even more complex than we can imagine it to be.
Vena, the Evil Descendent of Dhruv: The sages kill the son of Anga and Prithu is born from his dead body | Suite101.com
Well folks, since the topic of Vena is brought up thot of saying this.
Vena's episode is described in detail in the Padma Purana. There is a Jain version of the Padma Purana also.
The hindu version says Vena was a Jain. As a Jain he would not support the brahmanical religion. The hindu 'sages' kept trying to convert him but he would not budge.
The hindu version (naturally) characterized Vena as "evil". And ofcourse Puranic writers 'killed' him off, apparently with some 'curses' (and we are supposed to believe that i suppose).
The our imaginative puranic writers went a step ahead. They 'churned' Vena's body and produced the first Nishada. They gave the Nishadas an ogre type of look [black-skinned dwarfs with a low nose and blood-red eyes, etc], possibly to show their utter dislike for them.
The same Nishadas (Kiratas / Boyas) are described in Nepali sources as fair / yellow skinned people and not as some uncivilized ogres.
Funnily despite all the puranic dislike for the Nishadas, the Nishadas came to be included as a gotra in the Ganapatha, Ashtadhyayi of Panini. To historians this means an inclusion of Nishadas into the brahmanical society after an initial stand-off.
According to the Proceedings of the Indian History Congress (Vol 52, p.134), the inclusion happened "perhaps" through Atharva-veda. The Nishada Sthapati was given an important position in vedic rituals. This obviously means absorption of Nishada (jain?) priests into hindu order as brahmins.
Here, being killed off means being 'killed off as jain'; and being revived means, being revived as hindu. Unfortunately there is nothing like cloning mentioned here.
Vena's episode is described in detail in the Padma Purana. There is a Jain version of the Padma Purana also.
The hindu version says Vena was a Jain. As a Jain he would not support the brahmanical religion. The hindu 'sages' kept trying to convert him but he would not budge.
The hindu version (naturally) characterized Vena as "evil". And ofcourse Puranic writers 'killed' him off, apparently with some 'curses' (and we are supposed to believe that i suppose).
The our imaginative puranic writers went a step ahead. They 'churned' Vena's body and produced the first Nishada. They gave the Nishadas an ogre type of look [black-skinned dwarfs with a low nose and blood-red eyes, etc], possibly to show their utter dislike for them.
The same Nishadas (Kiratas / Boyas) are described in Nepali sources as fair / yellow skinned people and not as some uncivilized ogres.
Funnily despite all the puranic dislike for the Nishadas, the Nishadas came to be included as a gotra in the Ganapatha, Ashtadhyayi of Panini. To historians this means an inclusion of Nishadas into the brahmanical society after an initial stand-off.
According to the Proceedings of the Indian History Congress (Vol 52, p.134), the inclusion happened "perhaps" through Atharva-veda. The Nishada Sthapati was given an important position in vedic rituals. This obviously means absorption of Nishada (jain?) priests into hindu order as brahmins.
Here, being killed off means being 'killed off as jain'; and being revived means, being revived as hindu. Unfortunately there is nothing like cloning mentioned here.
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renuka
Well-known member
"Anything is possible when God has provided the raw material for scientists."
I wonder which God has provided the raw materials for Scientists?
The Pre-Vedic Gods
The Vedic Gods
The Puronic Gods
Hebrew Gods
Allah
Jesus
Buddha
Mahavira
Other Gods ??
Whether these Gods have Jurisdictions carved out for their Rule in the Universe? LOL.
Take it easy!!
I wonder which God has provided the raw materials for Scientists?
The Pre-Vedic Gods
The Vedic Gods
The Puronic Gods
Hebrew Gods
Allah
Jesus
Buddha
Mahavira
Other Gods ??
Whether these Gods have Jurisdictions carved out for their Rule in the Universe? LOL.
Take it easy!!
N
Nara
Guest
Happy, I read the story given in the link. I don't understand what teachings the Hindus are offering with this ridiculous story. This Vena comes across as a rational person hoping to get rid of superstitious nonsense, but the so called sages wouldn't allow it. Vena then had to pay the ultimate price. A small excerpt below:
"He (Vena) forbade all worship and religious rituals. He traveled the country on his chariot like a rogue elephant destroying every sign of religion. The lawless got bolder as there was no fear of punishment. "
"The sages ...... explained to him the usefulness and purpose of religious activities .....they recalled the glorious rule of Manu and Dhruv. .... But the king [...] admonished the sages. He told them that he is their true protector and patron. He ordered them to worship him instead of God. Now the sages were left with no choice. They uttered a curse on him and Vena was no more."
It looks like the "sages" simply bumped him off to reimpose their superstitious ways on the people. This seems to be the history all across Bharath, any sign of rational discourse, from the days of Charvakas, simply get rid of them and burn their books. By the time EVR came, a true fearless iconoclast, the political climate was different and the "sages" for some inexplicable reason lost the power to cast deadly curse on the trouble makers!!
The ending of this story is strange and disturbing.
"The evil from Vena’s body removed, the sages churned the arms and a couple was produced. The male was Prithu, an avatar of Vishnu, born with full armor and weaponry. The extremely beautiful female, Arci, was an incarnation of Lakshmi. With great pomp the sages arranged for the coronation of Prithu and Arci and assured the citizens that they would be safe under Prithu’s just regime."
Whether or not the ridiculous suggestion that this is an example of cloning is true, Prithu and Arci have to be biological siblings. Yet, these "sages" of infinite wisdom saw fit to make them a couple!!
What is truly surprising to me is this site on Hinduism has gladly put this embarrassing story online for everyone to see.
Cheers!
Matter as bubbles in the aether by Chris Illert: A paraphrase
Thus, the cosmic expansion caused matter sucked into existence.
Paul Davies, physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University, writes that
"what appears as empty space is actually a seething ferment....of quantum activity, teeming with [ghost] VIRTUAL PARTICLES and full of complex interactions. ....A real particle...must be always viewed against this backdrop of frenetic activity.
When [a real particle] moves through space, it is actually swimming in a sea of ghost particles of all varieties...entangled in a complexe melee'.... It
is important to realise that, at the quantum level of description, the vacuum
is the DOMINANT STRUCTURE. ...particles are only MINOR DISTURBANCES bubbling
up over this background sea of activity/(shades of implosion/sonoluminescence!)"
Thus the 'dense' aether (quantum vacuum) is scientific dogma today, even though it seemed the height of absurdity when Theosophists first proposed it.
But what of subatomic particles? Are they really bubbles?
• Meson is one of the simplest kinds of subatomic particle, composed of one quark and one antiquark, of opposite charges. The meson is actually a bubble in the aether (quantum vacuum); its internal field line that connects the quarks is trapped in the bubble.
• Ordinary electric charges produce field lines that spread to infinity throughout the ether. As the charges are moved apart, the connecting field lines move apart and spread unconstrained.
• Inside the meson, however, the quarks are connected by 'matter' field lines, which, contrary to 'electric' field lines, draw closer together, if the bubble is stretched! If the bubble is stretched too far, it can divide into two bubbles.
• We can think of the connection line of the quarks inside a meson as a 'Nambu string' akin to an elastic/rubber band, that always has two oppositely charged particles at its two ends.
• Now, if this 'band' is stretched too far, it snaps, but since there must be a charged particle to maintain the field line, two fresh quarks are sucked out of the surrounding ether! The figure below represents these occurrences of bubble-matter generation in ether.
• One way we could stretch and divide a meson bubble would be to make it SPIN VERY FAST; then the centripetal force would draw the quark and antiquark APART, stretching the elastic 'string' that holds them together.
• Thus, spinning 'matter bubbles' in the aether (quantum vacuum) would tend to be elongated AND oval-shaped. They are called VECTOR MESONS and there are 37 different types of them in nature.
• Non-spinning 'matter bubbles' would TEND TO BE SPHERICAL. They are called SCALAR MESONS and there are 36 different kinds of them also in nature.
• The occult chemists Besant and Leadbeater drew both kinds--vector and scalar mesons--as their E3 state of matter, in 1895. Science discovered these quarks only since the year 1968, after their existence was proposed in 1964, nearly seventy years after Besant and Leadbeater discovered them using their occult powers.
The seven worlds in Hindu cosmology
The seven worlds are described in the Hindu cosmology as below:
sthUla lokas: gross worlds
The material unvierse, the physical plane or earthly regions.
• bhUloka--earth: the lowest of the seven worlds. This the bhUmi, the Earth or the Physical World we live. The field of influence of bhUloka is said to extend little farther than our atmosphere. The term originates from bhUH--earth and loka--place or world.
sUkShma lokas: subtle worlds
The mental and emotional sphere, occupied by disembodied jIvas and devas.
• bhuvarloka--astral world: the middle of the three worlds bhUH, bhuvaH, suvaH. This is the world we go to after death. The ethereal realm or sphere between the earth and the sun, this world is also the abode of the munis. pitRuloka--world of our deceased ancestors, is located in the upper regions of the bhuvarloka. The term Bhvar-loka originates from bhuvas--air, atmosphere.
• svarloka, svarga--Heaven, mental world: It is also exoterically said to be a paradise situated on Mount Meru, the abode of BrahmA and ViShNu. Mount Meru, the Hindu Olympus, is "described geographically as passing through the middle of the earth-globe, and protruding on either side. On its upper station are the gods, on the nether (or South pole) is the abode of the demons (hells)" (SD 2:404). The sphere of influence of svarloka is said to reach to the pole star. The term is a from the root svaH--heaven.
• maharloka--causal world: The abode of certain classes of pitriss, certain of the manus, and the seven RShis, as well as of orders of celestial spirits and gods. Its sphere of influence is exoterically said to extend to the utmost limits of the solar system. The term maharloka is from the verbal root maH--to be great, also pleasure, delight.
kAraNa lokas: causal worlds
The spiritual universe of the mahAdevas, the gods and highly evolved souls.
• janaloka--Spiritual world: Exoterically said to extend beyond the solar system, it is the abode of the kumAras belonging to a high plane, but one nevertheless inferior to those living in tapaloka. The siddhas--yogis are stated to have their spiritual dwellings or rest periods in janaloka. There too, according to the purANas, animals destroyed in the general cosmic conflagration are born again (SD 1:371). The term originates from the root jana--to be born.
• tapaloka--Monodic world: is often called in Hindu literature the mansion of the blessed. It is considered to be the abode of vairAja deities, agniShvAtas, Sons of BrahmA, the highest classes of mAnasa-putras and kumAras. The term originates from tapaH--penance.
• satyaloka--the divine world: Referred to as the abode of truth, this loka is the innermost and closest to the radiating spiritual center, and yet extends its influence through and beyond all the inferior lokas. The three higher worlds janaloka, tapaloka and satyaloka are together known as brahmaloka. satyaloka is the abode of jIvanmuktas, souls that are liberated for the remainder of the entire solar manvantara from the cycle of spiritual transmigrations through the various spheres of being. The term is from the word satyam--truth.
Ref:
Theos-Talk Archives (December 2005 Message tt00131)
loka -
Correspondence of the seven words to our spiritual faculties
The seven worlds correspond to our various spiritual faculties as below:
1.bhUloka:
• mUlAdhAra chakra--the base chakra located at the base of the spine.
• 36 pRithvI tattvas--material manifestations of consciousness.
• sthUla sharIra--gross body that belongs to the annamaya kosha--food sheath.
pretaloka--world of the departed: of earth-bound souls. The astral duplicate of bhUloka.
• 1.nivRtti-kalA: jAgrat chitta, saMskAra chitta and vAsanâ chitta:
the conscious, subconscious and subsubconscious mind, the interrelated magnetic forces between people, people and their possessions.
• prANamaya-kosha--the 'sheath of vitality' which enlivens the physical body.
2.bhuvarloka, pitRuloka and 3.suvarloka:
• svAdhiShThAna chakra--the second chakra, located in the abdomen, lower back, and sexual organs.
maNipUra chakra--located in the solar plexus, corresponds to the 3.suvarloka.
• 2.pratiShThA-kalA: buddhi chitta and manas chitta--realm of intellect and instinct.
• Ashuddha mAyA--magnetic/gross energy:
13.prakRuti tattva--primal nature
14–16.antaHkaraNa--mental faculties
17–21.jnAnendriyas--organs of perception
22–26.karmendriyas--organs of action
27–31.tanmAtras--elements of perception
32–35.AkAsha tattva--ether, vAyu tattva--air, tejas tattva--fire, Apas tattva--water.
• sUkShma sharIra--subtle/astral body that belongs to the manomaya-kosha--the intellectual (odic-causal--buddhi) and instinctive (odic-astral--manas) sheath.
4.maharloka
• anAhata chakra--the heart chakra.
• 3.vidyA-kalA: antaHkaraNa chitta
‣ subsuperconscious awareness of forms in their totality in progressive states of manifestation.
‣ subsuperconscious cognition of the interrelated forces of the spiritual and magnetic energies.
• shuddha-ashuddha mAyA--spiritual/magnetic energy:
06.mAyA tattva--mirific energy
07.kAla tattva--time
08.niyati tattva--karma
09.kalA tattva--creativity, aptitude
10.vidyA tattva--knowledge
11.rAga tattva--attachment, desire
12.puruSha tattva--shrouded soul.
• sUkShma sharIra--subtle/astral body that belongs to the vijnAnamaya-kosha--the 'sheath of cognition', the mental or actinodic causal sheath.
j5.analoka, 6.tapaloka
• vishuddha chakra--located in the throat.
AjnA chakra--located between the brows, corresponds to 6.tapaloka.
• shAnti-kalA--kAraNa chitta--superconscious forms made of inner sounds and colors.
• shuddha mAyA--pure spiritual energy:
03.sadAshiva tattva--power of revealment
04.Ishvara tattva--power of concealment
05.shuddavidyA tattva--dharma, pure knowing, the powers of dissolution, preservation and creation-—Rudra, ViShNu and BrahmA.
• kAraNa sharIra--causal body that belongs to the Anandamaya-kosha--'sheath of bliss'-—the body of the soul, also called the actinic causal body.
7.satyaloka
• sahasrAra chakra--the crown chakra.
• shAntyAtIta-kalA--shivAnanda--superconsciousness expanded into endless inner space.
• shuddha mAyA--pure spiritual energy:
01.shiva tattva: parAshakti nAda satchidAnanda--pure consciousness
02.shakti tattva--parameshvara-bindu--Personal God.
• vishvagrAsa--final merger of the golden Anandamaya-kosha (svarNa-sharIra) in parameshvara.
Ref:
The Seven Worlds of Nature
Theos-Talk Archives (December 2005 Message tt00131)
Vedic-Agama cosmology:
Vedic Agamic Cosmology
http://www.les-108-upanishads.ch/PDF/Lokas_Plans_cosmiques.pdf
Seven chakras:
Sacred Centers - The Chakra Portal - Pathways for Personal and Global Transformation - Chakras, Videos, Workshops and Books by Anodea Judith.
36 tattvas:
The 36 tattvas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thus, the cosmic expansion caused matter sucked into existence.
Paul Davies, physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist working at Arizona State University, writes that
"what appears as empty space is actually a seething ferment....of quantum activity, teeming with [ghost] VIRTUAL PARTICLES and full of complex interactions. ....A real particle...must be always viewed against this backdrop of frenetic activity.
When [a real particle] moves through space, it is actually swimming in a sea of ghost particles of all varieties...entangled in a complexe melee'.... It
is important to realise that, at the quantum level of description, the vacuum
is the DOMINANT STRUCTURE. ...particles are only MINOR DISTURBANCES bubbling
up over this background sea of activity/(shades of implosion/sonoluminescence!)"
Thus the 'dense' aether (quantum vacuum) is scientific dogma today, even though it seemed the height of absurdity when Theosophists first proposed it.
But what of subatomic particles? Are they really bubbles?
• Meson is one of the simplest kinds of subatomic particle, composed of one quark and one antiquark, of opposite charges. The meson is actually a bubble in the aether (quantum vacuum); its internal field line that connects the quarks is trapped in the bubble.
• Ordinary electric charges produce field lines that spread to infinity throughout the ether. As the charges are moved apart, the connecting field lines move apart and spread unconstrained.
• Inside the meson, however, the quarks are connected by 'matter' field lines, which, contrary to 'electric' field lines, draw closer together, if the bubble is stretched! If the bubble is stretched too far, it can divide into two bubbles.
• We can think of the connection line of the quarks inside a meson as a 'Nambu string' akin to an elastic/rubber band, that always has two oppositely charged particles at its two ends.
• Now, if this 'band' is stretched too far, it snaps, but since there must be a charged particle to maintain the field line, two fresh quarks are sucked out of the surrounding ether! The figure below represents these occurrences of bubble-matter generation in ether.
• One way we could stretch and divide a meson bubble would be to make it SPIN VERY FAST; then the centripetal force would draw the quark and antiquark APART, stretching the elastic 'string' that holds them together.
• Thus, spinning 'matter bubbles' in the aether (quantum vacuum) would tend to be elongated AND oval-shaped. They are called VECTOR MESONS and there are 37 different types of them in nature.
• Non-spinning 'matter bubbles' would TEND TO BE SPHERICAL. They are called SCALAR MESONS and there are 36 different kinds of them also in nature.
• The occult chemists Besant and Leadbeater drew both kinds--vector and scalar mesons--as their E3 state of matter, in 1895. Science discovered these quarks only since the year 1968, after their existence was proposed in 1964, nearly seventy years after Besant and Leadbeater discovered them using their occult powers.
The seven worlds in Hindu cosmology
The seven worlds are described in the Hindu cosmology as below:
sthUla lokas: gross worlds
The material unvierse, the physical plane or earthly regions.
• bhUloka--earth: the lowest of the seven worlds. This the bhUmi, the Earth or the Physical World we live. The field of influence of bhUloka is said to extend little farther than our atmosphere. The term originates from bhUH--earth and loka--place or world.
sUkShma lokas: subtle worlds
The mental and emotional sphere, occupied by disembodied jIvas and devas.
• bhuvarloka--astral world: the middle of the three worlds bhUH, bhuvaH, suvaH. This is the world we go to after death. The ethereal realm or sphere between the earth and the sun, this world is also the abode of the munis. pitRuloka--world of our deceased ancestors, is located in the upper regions of the bhuvarloka. The term Bhvar-loka originates from bhuvas--air, atmosphere.
• svarloka, svarga--Heaven, mental world: It is also exoterically said to be a paradise situated on Mount Meru, the abode of BrahmA and ViShNu. Mount Meru, the Hindu Olympus, is "described geographically as passing through the middle of the earth-globe, and protruding on either side. On its upper station are the gods, on the nether (or South pole) is the abode of the demons (hells)" (SD 2:404). The sphere of influence of svarloka is said to reach to the pole star. The term is a from the root svaH--heaven.
• maharloka--causal world: The abode of certain classes of pitriss, certain of the manus, and the seven RShis, as well as of orders of celestial spirits and gods. Its sphere of influence is exoterically said to extend to the utmost limits of the solar system. The term maharloka is from the verbal root maH--to be great, also pleasure, delight.
kAraNa lokas: causal worlds
The spiritual universe of the mahAdevas, the gods and highly evolved souls.
• janaloka--Spiritual world: Exoterically said to extend beyond the solar system, it is the abode of the kumAras belonging to a high plane, but one nevertheless inferior to those living in tapaloka. The siddhas--yogis are stated to have their spiritual dwellings or rest periods in janaloka. There too, according to the purANas, animals destroyed in the general cosmic conflagration are born again (SD 1:371). The term originates from the root jana--to be born.
• tapaloka--Monodic world: is often called in Hindu literature the mansion of the blessed. It is considered to be the abode of vairAja deities, agniShvAtas, Sons of BrahmA, the highest classes of mAnasa-putras and kumAras. The term originates from tapaH--penance.
• satyaloka--the divine world: Referred to as the abode of truth, this loka is the innermost and closest to the radiating spiritual center, and yet extends its influence through and beyond all the inferior lokas. The three higher worlds janaloka, tapaloka and satyaloka are together known as brahmaloka. satyaloka is the abode of jIvanmuktas, souls that are liberated for the remainder of the entire solar manvantara from the cycle of spiritual transmigrations through the various spheres of being. The term is from the word satyam--truth.
Ref:
Theos-Talk Archives (December 2005 Message tt00131)
loka -
Correspondence of the seven words to our spiritual faculties
The seven worlds correspond to our various spiritual faculties as below:
1.bhUloka:
• mUlAdhAra chakra--the base chakra located at the base of the spine.
• 36 pRithvI tattvas--material manifestations of consciousness.
• sthUla sharIra--gross body that belongs to the annamaya kosha--food sheath.
pretaloka--world of the departed: of earth-bound souls. The astral duplicate of bhUloka.
• 1.nivRtti-kalA: jAgrat chitta, saMskAra chitta and vAsanâ chitta:
the conscious, subconscious and subsubconscious mind, the interrelated magnetic forces between people, people and their possessions.
• prANamaya-kosha--the 'sheath of vitality' which enlivens the physical body.
2.bhuvarloka, pitRuloka and 3.suvarloka:
• svAdhiShThAna chakra--the second chakra, located in the abdomen, lower back, and sexual organs.
maNipUra chakra--located in the solar plexus, corresponds to the 3.suvarloka.
• 2.pratiShThA-kalA: buddhi chitta and manas chitta--realm of intellect and instinct.
• Ashuddha mAyA--magnetic/gross energy:
13.prakRuti tattva--primal nature
14–16.antaHkaraNa--mental faculties
17–21.jnAnendriyas--organs of perception
22–26.karmendriyas--organs of action
27–31.tanmAtras--elements of perception
32–35.AkAsha tattva--ether, vAyu tattva--air, tejas tattva--fire, Apas tattva--water.
• sUkShma sharIra--subtle/astral body that belongs to the manomaya-kosha--the intellectual (odic-causal--buddhi) and instinctive (odic-astral--manas) sheath.
4.maharloka
• anAhata chakra--the heart chakra.
• 3.vidyA-kalA: antaHkaraNa chitta
‣ subsuperconscious awareness of forms in their totality in progressive states of manifestation.
‣ subsuperconscious cognition of the interrelated forces of the spiritual and magnetic energies.
• shuddha-ashuddha mAyA--spiritual/magnetic energy:
06.mAyA tattva--mirific energy
07.kAla tattva--time
08.niyati tattva--karma
09.kalA tattva--creativity, aptitude
10.vidyA tattva--knowledge
11.rAga tattva--attachment, desire
12.puruSha tattva--shrouded soul.
• sUkShma sharIra--subtle/astral body that belongs to the vijnAnamaya-kosha--the 'sheath of cognition', the mental or actinodic causal sheath.
j5.analoka, 6.tapaloka
• vishuddha chakra--located in the throat.
AjnA chakra--located between the brows, corresponds to 6.tapaloka.
• shAnti-kalA--kAraNa chitta--superconscious forms made of inner sounds and colors.
• shuddha mAyA--pure spiritual energy:
03.sadAshiva tattva--power of revealment
04.Ishvara tattva--power of concealment
05.shuddavidyA tattva--dharma, pure knowing, the powers of dissolution, preservation and creation-—Rudra, ViShNu and BrahmA.
• kAraNa sharIra--causal body that belongs to the Anandamaya-kosha--'sheath of bliss'-—the body of the soul, also called the actinic causal body.
7.satyaloka
• sahasrAra chakra--the crown chakra.
• shAntyAtIta-kalA--shivAnanda--superconsciousness expanded into endless inner space.
• shuddha mAyA--pure spiritual energy:
01.shiva tattva: parAshakti nAda satchidAnanda--pure consciousness
02.shakti tattva--parameshvara-bindu--Personal God.
• vishvagrAsa--final merger of the golden Anandamaya-kosha (svarNa-sharIra) in parameshvara.
Ref:
The Seven Worlds of Nature
Theos-Talk Archives (December 2005 Message tt00131)
Vedic-Agama cosmology:
Vedic Agamic Cosmology
http://www.les-108-upanishads.ch/PDF/Lokas_Plans_cosmiques.pdf
Seven chakras:
Sacred Centers - The Chakra Portal - Pathways for Personal and Global Transformation - Chakras, Videos, Workshops and Books by Anodea Judith.
36 tattvas:
The 36 tattvas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dear Sir,
Historically some rulers (like those of rashtrakuta) were staunch Jains and quite aggressive in spreading their faith.
Jainism being a nastika religion, is an anti-thesis of the 'popular' version of brahmanical-puranic-religion which is 'supposedly theist' and has to have someone to worship.
Maybe if one were to be fed up with the constant haggling or proselytising attitude of the hindu 'sages', then he wud end up with the refrain that "if you want to worship someone, then you can worship me".
This wud naturally come across to the hindus as unimaginably haughty. There are quite a few puranic stories where the approch is that such kings need to be taught a lesson (hiranyakashipu story comes to my mind). If the 'puranic-sages' were really kind they wud not curse or kill anyone.
There are so many time-periods assigned to the Padma Purana. Wonder who was this 'Vena' and who were the 'sages' who bumped off Vena. Or if the story really happened at all....
Maybe they thot making them a couple would solve sibling rivalry, if any
Theosophy offers a holistic view about the esoteric reality of the seven planes of nature and the nature of the Absolute that drives it. Theosophy has clairvoyantly investigated the three subtle planes that surround the physical plane--astral, mental and causal--and documented its findings. While we read about these investigations and views, it would be more convincing for us Hindus, if we can trace the corresponding or allied concepts in Hindu texts.
Let us remember these universal truths however:
• Most religions strive to teach that God is One, but no religion preaches the truth effectively that man is one too, and divine in nature.
• Man is one, in his physical, emotional and mental consitution, although people stand divided by various social realities caused and fostered by their ego.
• This means that man's afterlife would be pretty much the same, irrespective of their belief, although they would stand divided in the worlds of afterlife too, carrying over the remnants of their belief and past impressions.
• Just as the physical world has different regions to accommodate aggregations of humanity, so do the subtler worlds of the astral and mental planes.
Manifestations of the Absolute
Let us first try to trace the Hindu correspondence of the three factors involved in the Theosophical view of creation: parabrahman, mUlaprakRti and Fohat.
parabrahman
The usual form of reference to the Absolute in Hindu texts is brahman. The term parabrahman as such occurs in some texts. The terms AUM, tat, sat, brahman are all synonymous in Hindu spiritual parlance.
• While the terms that refer to Brahman usually include both the puruSha and prakRti (of the sAMkhya darshana), the term paramAtman is used to denote the Supreme Consciousness as the origin of all individual consciousness.
• Bhartruhari's vairAgya shatakam:
ज्ञानापास्तसमस्तमोहमहिमा लीये परब्रह्मणि }} १०० ॥
j~jAnApAstasamastamohamahimA lIye parabrahmaNi }} 100 ||
"May I now unite with the Transcendent Truth!"
• bhagavad gItA 8.3:
अक्षरं ब्रह्म परं
akSharaM brahma paraM
"Brahman is the immutable Supreme."
• Among the 108 upaniShads is the parabrahma upaniShad associated with the atharva-veda, which says, "Liberation is one alone to all, whether they are Brahma and the other gods, divine sages or human beings. Brahman is one alone", and explains the way to attain this status.
• Vedas refer to the parabrahman using the terms
‣ AUM iti brahma--AUM is Brahman----taittirIya upaniShad 1.8;
‣ tat--that, as opposed to idam--this, the manifest universe: tat savitur vareNyaM--RV 3.62.10;
‣ ekam sat--Reality is One--RV 1.164.46.
In the Vedantic traditions of the Hindu philosophy, their chief deity is accorded the status of Parabrahman/ParamAtman. Thus the Absolute is, in the philosphy of:
• advaita: the nirguNa brahman, who, as H.P.Blavatsky says, "having no relation, as the absolute all, to the manifested world--the Infinite having no connection with the finite--can neither will nor create; that, therefore, BrahmA, Mahat, Ishvara, or whatever name the creative power may be known by, creative gods and all, are simply an illusive aspect of Parabrahmam in the conception of the conceivers;" (SD 1:452)
• dvaita: brahmashabdashcha viShNaveva--"Brahman can only refer to ViShNu"--MAdhvAchArya; ViShNu as the Supreme One is eternally different from the Atman--individual soul.
• vishiShTAdvaita: the Ishvara, who is ViShNu-nArAyaNa, and as Brahman is the only reality qualified by the sentient and insentient modes.
• shAkta: the Adi parAshakti, who has a twofold aspect, as the nirguNa, niShkala brahman and shabda-brahman (AUM)
mUlaprakRti
The Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary compiled by G.de Purucker has the following elaborate account of the term mUlaprakRti (formatting added):
• Mulaprakriti: mulaprakrti (Sanskrit) [from mula root + prakriti nature] Root-nature; undifferentiated cosmic substance in its highest form, the abstract substance or essence of what later through various differentiations become the prakritis, the various forms of matter, concrete or sublimate.
• It is precosmic root-substance, the root-principle of the world stuff and all in the world; that aspect of parabrahman or space which underlies all the ethereally or materially objective planes or space of universal nature.
• It is again unmanifested primordial stuff or substance, divine-spiritual, undifferentiated, and therefore indestructible, eternal, parentless, and abstractly the Mother--space itself, and the vehicle, lining, or alter ego of parabrahman.
• It is "the noumenon of undifferentiated Cosmic Matter. It is not matter as we know it, but the spiritual essence of matter, and is co-eternal and even one with Space in its abstract sense. Root-nature is also the source of the subtile invisible properties in visible matter. It is the Soul, so to say, of the one infinite Spirit.
• The Hindus call it Mulaprakriti, and say that it is the primordial substance, which is the basis of the Upadhi or vehicle of every phenomenon, whether physical, mental or psychic. It is the source from which Akasa radiates" (SD 1:35).
• Mulaprakriti along with parabrahman are the two aspects of the one universal principle which is unconditioned to any human conception, and similarly eternal. Parabrahman is unconditioned and undifferentiated reality, and mulaprakriti is its veil or inseparable vehicle.
• To the First Logos or cosmic ego emerging in parabrahman, "once this ego starts into existence as a conscious being having objective consciousness of its own, we shall have to see what the result of this objective consciousness will be with reference to the one absolute and unconditioned existence from which its starts into manifested existence.
• From its objective standpoint, Parabrahmam appears to it as Mulaprakriti. . . . Parabrahmam by itself cannot be seen as it is. It is seen by the Logos with a veil thrown over it, and that veil is the mighty expanse of cosmic matter" (N on BG 20-1).
• Mulaprakriti stands in the same relation to parabrahman as the Qabbalistic Life of Space does to 'Eyn Soph; similarly on lower planes, it is what pradhana is to Brahman, or what prakriti is to Brahma.
*****
• sAmkhyA kArikA defines mUlaprakRti as:
३: मूलप्रकृतिरविकृतिर्महदाद्याः...
मूलप्रकृतिहि प्रधानं
3: mUlaprakRutiravikRutirmahadAdyAH...
mUlaprakRutihi pradhAnaM
3: Primal Nature, pradhAna is not an evolute, that is, is not produced.
HPB points out:
• "Matter is dual in religious metaphysics, and septenary in esoteric teachings, like everything else in the universe. As Mulaprakriti, it is undifferentiated and eternal; as Vyakta, it becomes differentiated and conditioned, according to Svetasvatara Upanishad, I. 8, and Devi Bhagavata Purana. (SD 1:11)
• "Spirit (or Consciousness) and Matter are, however, to be regarded, not as independent realities, but as the two facets or aspects of the Absolute (Parabrahm), which constitute the basis of conditioned Being whether subjective or objective.
• "Considering this metaphysical triad as the Root from which proceeds all manifestation, the great Breath assumes the character of precosmic Ideation. It is the fons et origo of force and of all individual consciousness, and supplies the guiding intelligence in the vast scheme of cosmic Evolution. On the other hand, precosmic root-substance (Mulaprakriti) is that aspect of the Absolute which underlies all the objective planes of Nature.
• "Just as pre-Cosmic Ideation is the root of all individual consciousness, so pre-Cosmic Substance is the substratum of matter in the various grades of its differentiation." (SD 1:15)
• "Hence it will be apparent that the contrast of these two aspects of the Absolute is essential to the existence of the "Manifested Universe." Apart from Cosmic Substance, Cosmic Ideation could not manifest as individual consciousness, since it is only through a vehicle--upAdhi of matter that consciousness wells up as "I am I", a physical basis being necessary to focus a ray of the Universal Mind at a certain stage of complexity. Again, apart from Cosmic Ideation, Cosmic Substance would remain an empty abstraction, and no emergence of consciousness could ensue.
• The "Manifested Universe", therefore, is pervaded by duality, which is, as it were, the very essence of its EX-istence as "manifestation." (SD 1:15)
Fohat
HPB explains:
• But just as the opposite poles of subject and object, spirit and matter, are but aspects of the One Unity in which they are synthesized, so, in the manifested Universe, there is "that" which links spirit to matter, subject to object.
• This something, at present unknown to Western speculation, is called by the occultists Fohat. It is the "bridge" by which the "Ideas" existing in the "Divine Thought" are impressed on Cosmic substance as the "laws of Nature." Fohat is thus the dynamic energy of Cosmic Ideation; or, regarded from the other side, it is the intelligent medium, the guiding power of all manifestation...
• Thus from Spirit, or Cosmic Ideation, comes our consciousness; from Cosmic Substance the several vehicles in which that consciousness is individualised and attains to self--or reflective--consciousness; while Fohat, in its various manifestations, is the mysterious link between Mind and Matter, the animating principle electrifying every atom into life. (SD 1:16)
• Fohat is the result of daiviprakRti, the divine light of Ishvara. HPB explains:
"Thus in the Esotericism of the Vedantins, Daiviprakriti, the Light manifested through Eswara, the Logos, is at one and the same time the Mother and also the Daughter of the Logos or Verbum of Parabrahmam; while in that of the trans-Himalayan teachings it is -- in the hierarchy of allegorical and metaphysical theogony--'the Mother' or abstract, ideal matter, Mulaprakriti, the Root of Nature;--from the metaphysical standpoint, a correlation of Adi-Bhuta, manifested in the Logos, Avalokiteshwara;--and from the purely occult and Cosmical, Fohat, the 'Son of the Son,' the androgynous energy resulting from this 'Light of the Logos,' and which manifests in the plane of the objective Universe as the hidden, as much as the revealed, Electricity--which is Life" (SD 1:136).
Further she says that theosophy "teaches that it is this original, primordial prima materia, divine and intelligent, the direct emanation of the Universal Mind--the Daiviprakriti (the divine light emanating from the Logos) -- which formed the nuclei of all the 'self-moving' orbs in Kosmos. It is the informing, ever-present moving-power and life-principle, the vital soul of the suns, moons, planets, and even of our Earth" (SD 1:602).
Bhagavan Das in his book The Science of Peace explains:
• "Mula-prakrti or Matter and Daivi-prakrti or Force, together, make up the whole sva-bhAva of PuruSha or Pratyag-Atma. shakti shaktimatoH abhedaH, 'Force and Possessor of Force are not-different, not-separate though distinguishable.'"
To summarise:
1. The ABSOLUTE; the Parabrahm of the Vedantins or the one Reality, SAT, which is, as Hegel says, both Absolute Being and Non-Being.
2. The first manifestation, the impersonal, and, in philosophy, unmanifested Logos, the precursor of the "manifested." This is the "First Cause," the "Unconscious" of European Pantheists.
3. Spirit-matter, LIFE; the "Spirit of the Universe," the PuruSha and PrakRiti, or the second Logos.
4. Cosmic Ideation, MAHAT or Intelligence, the Universal World-Soul; the Cosmic Noumenon of Matter, the basis of the intelligent operations in and of Nature, also called MAHA-BUDDHI.
The ONE REALITY; its dual aspects in the conditioned Universe.
(to continue...)
Let us remember these universal truths however:
• Most religions strive to teach that God is One, but no religion preaches the truth effectively that man is one too, and divine in nature.
• Man is one, in his physical, emotional and mental consitution, although people stand divided by various social realities caused and fostered by their ego.
• This means that man's afterlife would be pretty much the same, irrespective of their belief, although they would stand divided in the worlds of afterlife too, carrying over the remnants of their belief and past impressions.
• Just as the physical world has different regions to accommodate aggregations of humanity, so do the subtler worlds of the astral and mental planes.
Manifestations of the Absolute
Let us first try to trace the Hindu correspondence of the three factors involved in the Theosophical view of creation: parabrahman, mUlaprakRti and Fohat.
parabrahman
The usual form of reference to the Absolute in Hindu texts is brahman. The term parabrahman as such occurs in some texts. The terms AUM, tat, sat, brahman are all synonymous in Hindu spiritual parlance.
• While the terms that refer to Brahman usually include both the puruSha and prakRti (of the sAMkhya darshana), the term paramAtman is used to denote the Supreme Consciousness as the origin of all individual consciousness.
• Bhartruhari's vairAgya shatakam:
ज्ञानापास्तसमस्तमोहमहिमा लीये परब्रह्मणि }} १०० ॥
j~jAnApAstasamastamohamahimA lIye parabrahmaNi }} 100 ||
"May I now unite with the Transcendent Truth!"
• bhagavad gItA 8.3:
अक्षरं ब्रह्म परं
akSharaM brahma paraM
"Brahman is the immutable Supreme."
• Among the 108 upaniShads is the parabrahma upaniShad associated with the atharva-veda, which says, "Liberation is one alone to all, whether they are Brahma and the other gods, divine sages or human beings. Brahman is one alone", and explains the way to attain this status.
• Vedas refer to the parabrahman using the terms
‣ AUM iti brahma--AUM is Brahman----taittirIya upaniShad 1.8;
‣ tat--that, as opposed to idam--this, the manifest universe: tat savitur vareNyaM--RV 3.62.10;
‣ ekam sat--Reality is One--RV 1.164.46.
In the Vedantic traditions of the Hindu philosophy, their chief deity is accorded the status of Parabrahman/ParamAtman. Thus the Absolute is, in the philosphy of:
• advaita: the nirguNa brahman, who, as H.P.Blavatsky says, "having no relation, as the absolute all, to the manifested world--the Infinite having no connection with the finite--can neither will nor create; that, therefore, BrahmA, Mahat, Ishvara, or whatever name the creative power may be known by, creative gods and all, are simply an illusive aspect of Parabrahmam in the conception of the conceivers;" (SD 1:452)
• dvaita: brahmashabdashcha viShNaveva--"Brahman can only refer to ViShNu"--MAdhvAchArya; ViShNu as the Supreme One is eternally different from the Atman--individual soul.
• vishiShTAdvaita: the Ishvara, who is ViShNu-nArAyaNa, and as Brahman is the only reality qualified by the sentient and insentient modes.
• shAkta: the Adi parAshakti, who has a twofold aspect, as the nirguNa, niShkala brahman and shabda-brahman (AUM)
mUlaprakRti
The Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary compiled by G.de Purucker has the following elaborate account of the term mUlaprakRti (formatting added):
• Mulaprakriti: mulaprakrti (Sanskrit) [from mula root + prakriti nature] Root-nature; undifferentiated cosmic substance in its highest form, the abstract substance or essence of what later through various differentiations become the prakritis, the various forms of matter, concrete or sublimate.
• It is precosmic root-substance, the root-principle of the world stuff and all in the world; that aspect of parabrahman or space which underlies all the ethereally or materially objective planes or space of universal nature.
• It is again unmanifested primordial stuff or substance, divine-spiritual, undifferentiated, and therefore indestructible, eternal, parentless, and abstractly the Mother--space itself, and the vehicle, lining, or alter ego of parabrahman.
• It is "the noumenon of undifferentiated Cosmic Matter. It is not matter as we know it, but the spiritual essence of matter, and is co-eternal and even one with Space in its abstract sense. Root-nature is also the source of the subtile invisible properties in visible matter. It is the Soul, so to say, of the one infinite Spirit.
• The Hindus call it Mulaprakriti, and say that it is the primordial substance, which is the basis of the Upadhi or vehicle of every phenomenon, whether physical, mental or psychic. It is the source from which Akasa radiates" (SD 1:35).
• Mulaprakriti along with parabrahman are the two aspects of the one universal principle which is unconditioned to any human conception, and similarly eternal. Parabrahman is unconditioned and undifferentiated reality, and mulaprakriti is its veil or inseparable vehicle.
• To the First Logos or cosmic ego emerging in parabrahman, "once this ego starts into existence as a conscious being having objective consciousness of its own, we shall have to see what the result of this objective consciousness will be with reference to the one absolute and unconditioned existence from which its starts into manifested existence.
• From its objective standpoint, Parabrahmam appears to it as Mulaprakriti. . . . Parabrahmam by itself cannot be seen as it is. It is seen by the Logos with a veil thrown over it, and that veil is the mighty expanse of cosmic matter" (N on BG 20-1).
• Mulaprakriti stands in the same relation to parabrahman as the Qabbalistic Life of Space does to 'Eyn Soph; similarly on lower planes, it is what pradhana is to Brahman, or what prakriti is to Brahma.
*****
• sAmkhyA kArikA defines mUlaprakRti as:
३: मूलप्रकृतिरविकृतिर्महदाद्याः...
मूलप्रकृतिहि प्रधानं
3: mUlaprakRutiravikRutirmahadAdyAH...
mUlaprakRutihi pradhAnaM
3: Primal Nature, pradhAna is not an evolute, that is, is not produced.
HPB points out:
• "Matter is dual in religious metaphysics, and septenary in esoteric teachings, like everything else in the universe. As Mulaprakriti, it is undifferentiated and eternal; as Vyakta, it becomes differentiated and conditioned, according to Svetasvatara Upanishad, I. 8, and Devi Bhagavata Purana. (SD 1:11)
• "Spirit (or Consciousness) and Matter are, however, to be regarded, not as independent realities, but as the two facets or aspects of the Absolute (Parabrahm), which constitute the basis of conditioned Being whether subjective or objective.
• "Considering this metaphysical triad as the Root from which proceeds all manifestation, the great Breath assumes the character of precosmic Ideation. It is the fons et origo of force and of all individual consciousness, and supplies the guiding intelligence in the vast scheme of cosmic Evolution. On the other hand, precosmic root-substance (Mulaprakriti) is that aspect of the Absolute which underlies all the objective planes of Nature.
• "Just as pre-Cosmic Ideation is the root of all individual consciousness, so pre-Cosmic Substance is the substratum of matter in the various grades of its differentiation." (SD 1:15)
• "Hence it will be apparent that the contrast of these two aspects of the Absolute is essential to the existence of the "Manifested Universe." Apart from Cosmic Substance, Cosmic Ideation could not manifest as individual consciousness, since it is only through a vehicle--upAdhi of matter that consciousness wells up as "I am I", a physical basis being necessary to focus a ray of the Universal Mind at a certain stage of complexity. Again, apart from Cosmic Ideation, Cosmic Substance would remain an empty abstraction, and no emergence of consciousness could ensue.
• The "Manifested Universe", therefore, is pervaded by duality, which is, as it were, the very essence of its EX-istence as "manifestation." (SD 1:15)
Fohat
HPB explains:
• But just as the opposite poles of subject and object, spirit and matter, are but aspects of the One Unity in which they are synthesized, so, in the manifested Universe, there is "that" which links spirit to matter, subject to object.
• This something, at present unknown to Western speculation, is called by the occultists Fohat. It is the "bridge" by which the "Ideas" existing in the "Divine Thought" are impressed on Cosmic substance as the "laws of Nature." Fohat is thus the dynamic energy of Cosmic Ideation; or, regarded from the other side, it is the intelligent medium, the guiding power of all manifestation...
• Thus from Spirit, or Cosmic Ideation, comes our consciousness; from Cosmic Substance the several vehicles in which that consciousness is individualised and attains to self--or reflective--consciousness; while Fohat, in its various manifestations, is the mysterious link between Mind and Matter, the animating principle electrifying every atom into life. (SD 1:16)
• Fohat is the result of daiviprakRti, the divine light of Ishvara. HPB explains:
"Thus in the Esotericism of the Vedantins, Daiviprakriti, the Light manifested through Eswara, the Logos, is at one and the same time the Mother and also the Daughter of the Logos or Verbum of Parabrahmam; while in that of the trans-Himalayan teachings it is -- in the hierarchy of allegorical and metaphysical theogony--'the Mother' or abstract, ideal matter, Mulaprakriti, the Root of Nature;--from the metaphysical standpoint, a correlation of Adi-Bhuta, manifested in the Logos, Avalokiteshwara;--and from the purely occult and Cosmical, Fohat, the 'Son of the Son,' the androgynous energy resulting from this 'Light of the Logos,' and which manifests in the plane of the objective Universe as the hidden, as much as the revealed, Electricity--which is Life" (SD 1:136).
Further she says that theosophy "teaches that it is this original, primordial prima materia, divine and intelligent, the direct emanation of the Universal Mind--the Daiviprakriti (the divine light emanating from the Logos) -- which formed the nuclei of all the 'self-moving' orbs in Kosmos. It is the informing, ever-present moving-power and life-principle, the vital soul of the suns, moons, planets, and even of our Earth" (SD 1:602).
Bhagavan Das in his book The Science of Peace explains:
• "Mula-prakrti or Matter and Daivi-prakrti or Force, together, make up the whole sva-bhAva of PuruSha or Pratyag-Atma. shakti shaktimatoH abhedaH, 'Force and Possessor of Force are not-different, not-separate though distinguishable.'"
To summarise:
1. The ABSOLUTE; the Parabrahm of the Vedantins or the one Reality, SAT, which is, as Hegel says, both Absolute Being and Non-Being.
2. The first manifestation, the impersonal, and, in philosophy, unmanifested Logos, the precursor of the "manifested." This is the "First Cause," the "Unconscious" of European Pantheists.
3. Spirit-matter, LIFE; the "Spirit of the Universe," the PuruSha and PrakRiti, or the second Logos.
4. Cosmic Ideation, MAHAT or Intelligence, the Universal World-Soul; the Cosmic Noumenon of Matter, the basis of the intelligent operations in and of Nature, also called MAHA-BUDDHI.
The ONE REALITY; its dual aspects in the conditioned Universe.
(to continue...)
What's in Sanskrit Language ?
I notice that very many self proclaimed Theists, even though they don't know Sanskrit fully to read and write, use it to describe certain concepts or principles of divinity and Hinduism!
Can't they use their mother tongue, Tamil or the International language of Communication, English?
Perhaps, that's their ploy: To bring a sense of enigma or confusion to obfuscate the concept or the principles that they want to propose or ponder regarding divinity and religion!!
What say you?
I notice that very many self proclaimed Theists, even though they don't know Sanskrit fully to read and write, use it to describe certain concepts or principles of divinity and Hinduism!
Can't they use their mother tongue, Tamil or the International language of Communication, English?
Perhaps, that's their ploy: To bring a sense of enigma or confusion to obfuscate the concept or the principles that they want to propose or ponder regarding divinity and religion!!
What say you?
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Yamaka,
This I am going to be truthful since I know Sanskrit..dont know if you believe me but the language is a beauty on its own.You will have to learn it to feel that.
Its like a fragrance of a Rose..you cant see it..you can only enjoy it.
Is it NOT the same of Aramic for Jews and Arabic for Muslims?
I don't have problem with people fully knowing (reading, writing and speaking) Sanskrit....I find it hilarious that Bs or TBs use profusely Sanskrit words when they don't know the language... Why??
One Vedic Scholar in this Forum said, "Sanskrit is so complex that you need a week to explain one single word!.... It requires PROPER INFRASTRUCTURE to understand the meaning fully"
Assuming this is true, no wonder most people don't know the language, but still out of enigma use it profusely!!
Take care!
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renuka
Well-known member
Complexity is only in our mind. Sanskrit is actually very technical and mathematical and its rules of grammar is vast but not impossible to master.
One needs to be dedicated to master it.
A language becomes hard to master when we dont speak it thats what happened in the case of Sanskrit.People were not speaking it anymore.
When we dont speak a language only then we have to start reading up rules of grammar etc.
A child learns to speak a language by hearing and speaking and all rules of grammar for language just falls in place.
Thats why Samskrita Bharati of India emphasizes spoken sanskrit to master it faster.
Many who dont know Sanskrit fully still use it profusely in their conversations and descriptions becos its so apt to describe certain situations.
I will give you a simple example :the word Dharma.There is actually no English equivalent for it.So you will hear many using this word in their conversations.
Dear Y,
I basically have no prob with anything in hinduism and hindu scriptures, EXCEPT smrithis and obfuscations by smrithi-followers.
Generally in my view worthy people were absorbed into vaideekiyam, tantra vidya, yogic kriyas...this wud apply to kapalika tantrics, satyakama jabala, and such like. These functioned like semi-permeable cell membranes. Not easy to permeate and but not impossible.
However, this wud be an anti-thesis to the smrithi-followers; who sought a rigid cell-wall. So the ploy to disallow sanskrit to others, create enigma and confusion, (in my view), came from the smrithi-followers.
As regards sanskrit language and vedic chanting, it is intricate -- The Tradition of Vedic Chanting - YouTube
There is a poetic spiritual side to it. I do find the chanting divine, simply because it feels peaceful.
The effects of the chanting on the brain has not been studied yet. But playing the chants is the easiest way to put kids to sleep. Some of my kid's all time favorites are the bhagya suktam Vedic Chants - YouTube and mantra pushpam Mantra Pushpam - Vedic Hymns in sanskrit - YouTube
True that some parts of veda samhitas have 'uncomfortable' things, but they are a repository of history.
"Many who dont know Sanskrit fully still use it profusely in their conversations and descriptions becos its so apt to describe certain situations."
"I will give you a simple example :the word Dharma.There is actually no English equivalent for it.So you will hear many using this word in their conversations." -Renukka in post #95
Then, what exactly is Dharma, Sanatana or Sanatana Dharma?
How could people use these terms if they don't know what exactly they mean?
"I will give you a simple example :the word Dharma.There is actually no English equivalent for it.So you will hear many using this word in their conversations." -Renukka in post #95
Then, what exactly is Dharma, Sanatana or Sanatana Dharma?
How could people use these terms if they don't know what exactly they mean?
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Yamaka,
You wrote:
want to know??? you become a believer and I will let you know!!! LOL!!!
Ok Ok just joking...See there is no exact 1 single word in English to describe Dharma aptly.Its just almost there(various definitions) but the meaning of Dharma is felt by every Indian.
Like Love..we can feel Love in our heart..Dharma is also "felt".
People often prefer to us the word Dharma instead of any English definition cos the Dharma word just sums it all up.
In English it can go by variuos meanings...eg Righteousness,Duty, sometimes can also mean morality,religion.
The root word for Dharma means "that which upholds or supports"
So its a broad classification.
Ok see another word ...Prajñā (प्रज्ञा)
In English its called Constant Intergrated Awareness.
See what I mean.
It takes couple of words in English to just describe 1 word in Sanskrit.
You wrote:
want to know??? you become a believer and I will let you know!!! LOL!!!
Ok Ok just joking...See there is no exact 1 single word in English to describe Dharma aptly.Its just almost there(various definitions) but the meaning of Dharma is felt by every Indian.
Like Love..we can feel Love in our heart..Dharma is also "felt".
People often prefer to us the word Dharma instead of any English definition cos the Dharma word just sums it all up.
In English it can go by variuos meanings...eg Righteousness,Duty, sometimes can also mean morality,religion.
The root word for Dharma means "that which upholds or supports"
So its a broad classification.
Ok see another word ...Prajñā (प्रज्ञा)
In English its called Constant Intergrated Awareness.
See what I mean.
It takes couple of words in English to just describe 1 word in Sanskrit.
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