Reservation for Brahmins

[Iyest]

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The most difficult period for brahmins in tamil nadu was in the 70's. There were very few professional colleges, all were government controlled, reservation had been introduced and there were few jobs in the private sector which was almost non existant anyway. During the last four decades, things have improved a bit. But the overall rate of progress is so slow it would put a snail to shame. We have had brahmin leaders and organizations but very few of them produce results for the community.

Recently, I visited rameshwaram and saw the deplorable living conditions of the brahmin community there. What is even more heart breaking is the fact that there is no party or orgnization to speak for them. Dozens of bright teen agers living in appalling conditions without any chance of being admitted into engineering or medicine. The scene is not much different in other smaller towns.

People here think that the 31% open competition category is available for brahmins. But the fact is the vast majority of this category is also taken by the powerful and wealthy castes in the BC. Of the 1200 government medical seats every year, I doubt whether even half a dozen are alloted to brahmins. How many brahmin dcotors do you know who are below the age of 40 and have studied in tamil nadu? The community desperately needs to do certain things.

1. Start a private medical college (not dental) with scholarships for the poor brahmin students.

2. Help poor brahmin students with any education, professional or otherwise. Without education, the community is doomed.

3. Provide brahmins with assistance to study anywhere in India or abroad.

4. Don't be dejected that we are only 2% of the population. Remember, so are the sikhs. Form alliances politically wherever possible with clear demands in return for support. All these years of supporting the dravidian parties have yielded nothing.

5. Last but not least, teach proper history to our children. All the propaganda against brahmins over the past four decades has affected the psyche of the younger generation. Many kids today believe the brahmins ruled (they never did, the rulers were kshatriyas who are now classified as BC!) or had financial power to abuse other castes. Unless there is some self belief, no venture is going to be successful.

Of course, those who are satisfied with study of shastraas and vedas must be left alone and respected for their way of life.

 

[kunjuppu]

iyest,

i read you and would like to think i understand you.

but a couple of questions. hope you don't mind.

one of the biggest mistakes, i think, is that you, like most most of the indians think that there is a life only in medicine or engineering.

nothing could be more further from the truth.

our prime minister is an economist. there are awesome careers in economics, statistics, accounting, finance, corporate secretary, human resources and above all shipping.

none of these courses involve expensive professional college education, but only drive and ambition.

which brings me to the second topic.

drive and ambition.

in every society, community, family there are kids with drive and ambition. nothing will stop them. rich or poor, they view each hurdle as a challenge to overcome.

...and there are the others. nothing wrong in not being satisfied with their current lot. to a stranger, it opens up several avenues of feelings tending towards guilt, self-pity, indignation and above all (within our community) an entitlement denied.

not saying that there are genuine cases of youths of either gender kept back due to their caste, but i sincerely feel, that within our community atleast, those that wish to educate themselves, due to their contact to our more prosperous brethren, will find a way - if not anything else, money from the bank to pay their education.

which is how, many many kids in the u.s.a or canada, fund their education. nothing wrong in that.

finally, every community has its share of losers. these are the whiners, who attempt to squeeze all the goodness within you, for personal gains.

i try to imagine under what conditions would i feel the way you did when you wrote your post. probably most of the time. after all, feelings always overwhelms the rational analysis, don' they?

it will take me a while, always egged by that nagging feeling that i have been duped, till i finally overcome my denial, accept the fact that there are charlatans in our community too. which is ok. for it only confirms my faith in humanity, that we are no better or no worse than anyone else in this world.

if you go through old posts, there was an active movement to start a college in bangalore, because in karnataka we qualify as a llinguistic minority, and we can give preference to our own kind. there were no takers. many times this topic was discussed, but did not go anywhere. i think, because, although there are poor in our community, by indian poverty standards, they are better off than the poorest of the poor. atleast that is my gut feeling, and i admit that i may be offbase here.

even though sikhs are 2% of indian population, they are a majority community in punjab and significantly represented in haryana & delhi. they have a passion for their religion, almost mirroring the muslims or the christians (of india only). our community ie tamil brahmins, come from a different tradition. it is best that we accept it, and manoeuvre our heritage, for the betterment of the current generation.

in this regard, i think, we have succeeded beyond bounds. i feel that today, we as a community, are a broad mid to upper class based community, and among the most prosperous communities of inda. this, i repeat, only tamil brahmins. we should not compare ourselves to brahmins of other states. their traditions are different. we are unique. this thanks to tamil nadu, its culture, language, and the tamil hindu tradition, which i am sad to say, that due to various missteps, we are perforce to deny or neglect these days. that is a sad fact. but, i feel, true.


thank you. hope to see more of you here.

 

[Iyest]

iyest,

i read you and would like to think i understand you.

Unfortunately you did not.

but a couple of questions. hope you don't mind.

Not at all.

one of the biggest mistakes, i think, is that you, like most most of the indians think that there is a life only in medicine or engineering.

The biggest mistake is not reading what somebody writes and jumping in with pre conceived ideas. Where did i say so or anything close to that? I was just about to post on the shortage of good quality veda patasalas. Does that mean there is life only in patasalas?

nothing could be more further from the truth.

I agree but your reply is not relevant to my post.

our prime minister is an economist. there are awesome careers in economics, statistics, accounting, finance, corporate secretary, human resources and above all shipping.

none of these courses involve expensive professional college education, but only drive and ambition.

which brings me to the second topic.

drive and ambition.

in every society, community, family there are kids with drive and ambition. nothing will stop them. rich or poor, they view each hurdle as a challenge to overcome.

Great speech. You would be doing a great service to the community if you could convince the dravidian parties and the lalu yadavs of your philosophy. Since nothing can stop drive and ambition, there is no need for reservation at all for anybody.

The issue here is de facto denial/barriers of certain professions to otherwise capable students. This is discrimination. It is irrelevant whether some other options are available.

not saying that there are genuine cases of youths of either gender kept back due to their caste, but i sincerely feel, that within our community atleast, those that wish to educate themselves, due to their contact to our more prosperous brethren, will find a way - if not anything else, money from the bank to pay their education.
which is how, many many kids in the u.s.a or canada, fund their education. nothing wrong in that.

Take a trip to rameswaram. Look at the families there, their living conditions. Making a living entirely by cooking food and performing rites for sraadam. No guarantee of daily income. No contacts with anybody in Chennai, let alone anybody abroad. Similar conditions in chidambaram and other temple towns. Your views only smacks of the all too familiar 'let them eat cake' attitude.

i try to imagine under what conditions would i feel the way you did when you wrote your post. probably most of the time. after all, feelings always overwhelms the rational analysis, don' they?

Based on false assumptions you are free to come to any conclusions you like. I have nothing to say.

it will take me a while, always egged by that nagging feeling that i have been duped, till i finally overcome my denial, accept the fact that there are charlatans in our community too. which is ok. for it only confirms my faith in humanity, that we are no better or no worse than anyone else in this world.

That was also addressed in my post. The community must come to terms with reality and help members stand on their own feet by taking specific actions.

in this regard, i think, we have succeeded beyond bounds. i feel that today, we as a community, are a broad mid to upper class based community, and among the most prosperous communities of inda.

You are way off base here. You likely did not see the report last year that in UP the largest number of applications for government sweeper jobs came from brahmins. Tamil nadu is even worse, the brahmins will not bother to apply even for those jobs since they will be denied anyway. Last week, the anniversary of Vaidyanatha Iyer in Madurai went totally unrecognized even by the Congress party. It prompted an article in Dinamani asking whether this great freedom fighter was ignored only because of his caste.

I guess (only a guess) your views are formed mainly from contact with families in major cities of TN and Karnataka. When you reach my age and have lived in both cities and rural areas you get a better perspective.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

I think our community has already learnt to live with the reservation issue.

Our community has started dwindling in Tamilnadu.

Personally I just took a statistics of the next generation of my brother and sisters family.

Out of 13 children, 8 are living outside India (5 USA, 1 Gulf, 1 Singapore and 1 Australia)

Of the remaining 5, only one is living in Tamilnadu and three are living outside Tamilnadu. My daughter is studying undergraduate degree outside Tamilnadu and is looking for the earliest opportunity to move out of India.

Recent survey by a magazine says our community population is much less in Tamilnadu.

www.outlookindia.com | Brahmins In India

We don't have enough votes to fight the establishment or influence them.

So the best way, I think is to use our resources productively to improve the poor members of our community instead of wasting our energy in fighting others.

Personallly my village had 65 houses of our community. Today there are only 5 houses of our community in the village. Even this five will get reduced in the near future as most of them are very old. All the migrants are dispersed globally.

The remaining members of our community are mostly concentrated in Chennai, Coimbatore, Trichy, Madurai, Salem, Tirunelveli etc. Few people are in smaller towns. Our population has definitely dwindled in villages.

Now we have to help poorer members of our community to move up the ladder. There are lot of opportunities available for them

Most of our community members have given up medical profession. Except children of medical professionals of our community, others are not even applying for medical education.

As you rightly side, accountancy profession has tremendous demand throughout the world. One can pursue global accountancy courses right from Chennai.

ACCA - the global body for professional accountants

Cimaglobal

One has to pay registration and examination fee in British Pound. Otherwise these institutes don't bother about coaching which one can take anywhere.

Proabably one can pursue ACCA first which gives lot of exemptions when they pursue CIMA subsequently.

If some of our community students are interested, I don't mind organising coaching classes on self financing basis at very reasonable cost. For really poor and meritorious students, we can even organise some scholarships.

Those who pass out can pursue their career almost throughout the western world as the qualifications are awarded by Institutions recognised by the British Charter.

There is no problem in getting admissions to Arts/Science/Commerce colleges.

There is no problem in getting admission to Engineering colleges in the open quota .

Most of the people go out of India for post graduate education as the Institutions in India, except a few, have lost relevance in the international arena.

Instead of wasting our energies in fighting, let us focus on development of our youngsters which is utmost important.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

IdlyVadai - ??்?ி??ை

please read the story of muthumari in the above blog. thank you.

rvr,

i agree with you, re reservations and our community. you are absolutely correct re self help within the community, is quick to enforce and immediate succour to those who need it.

i suspect, even though we have pockets of poverty, it is few compared to the total number of our community. this is just my suspicion and the reality may be different.

even for non TBs, coming within the purview of reservation, as the above story shows, not all is a cakewalk. it takes still a lot of effort and money. the reservation is a break, but again the poor do not always get the benefit.

poverty knows no caste or creed. i think, given the current political currents, giving preference based on economic needs will not happen in our life time. by then, maybe 90% of TBs may have left tamil nadu. we shall have to start calling ourselves XTB then?

 

[Ganamukundhapriya]

It is atrocious that many (including SASTRA, Ramakrishna Mutt etc) try to cash in on the desperation of the
Brahmins by falsely suggesting Medical, Engineering and ACCA like things. The dialogs like 'I am ready to conduct a free coaching class' are sure meant to lure the gullible ones. The Brahmins have to get things in a systematic manner in India / Tamilnadu and suggestions like that opportunities are available is all the West should never be believed now, particularly after the failure of Globalization. Today any education, be it engineering or economics or medicine or mathematics, cannot be succor to Brahmins for they are being discriminated in spite of their qualification. Please note that we have suggested here an easy approach for Reservation and please respond with respect to it.

The proof that Brahmin community is degenerating is everywhere. Once a Brahmin officer in Government service is revered for his integrity. Today the handful of the Brahmins managing to hang on to the Government services are admired for his / her corrupt methods! The merit today comes from one's ability and propensity for corrupt practices and not by any educational qualification. Even the wealthy Brahmin cannot achieve anything if he / she not going to subscribe to this scheme. Reservation may be a corrupt practice by Brahmin's sentiments. But it is not so by our Constitution. We have to work for Reservation for our posterity to have any connection with Tamilnadu / India.

Reservation again is going to be only a self help among Brahmins. I could notice Mr.lramakrishnan1 understanding the motive behind this thread. Others should also should apply their mind and should help in our endeavor.

 

[kunjuppu]

.... Please note that we have suggested here an easy approach for Reservation and please respond with respect to it.

The proof that Brahmin community is degenerating is everywhere. ..... Reservation may be a corrupt practice by Brahmin's sentiments. But it is not so by our Constitution. We have to work for Reservation for our posterity to have any connection with Tamilnadu / India.

Reservation again is going to be only a self help among Brahmins. I could notice Mr.lramakrishnan1 understanding the motive behind this thread. Others should also should apply their mind and should help in our endeavor.

gana,

i find some of your sweeping statements like 'proof that brahmin community is degenerating...' somewhat difficult to swallow.

here is a proof of not-degeneration

Handi Care International - We Can Make a Difference

this organization is run by a TB, for the benefit of all. i think it would be difficult to call him or his organization anything associated with degeneration, except of the body, as here, everyone has a failed body. but not failed mind, moral, ideals or idealisms.

once again, please read my previous notes here yesterday.

i think we need to plan to do the 'do-able'. do you realistically believe that we TBs have the clout, or the werewithal, to enforce a reservation? reservation based on what?

if we claim poverty, please look around you in terms of percentage of our community who are well off. if you take all tamil communities, i think that we as a group, have more in middle and upper classes than any other tamil community.

this is a sweeping statement, i make without any proof. because it is a gut feeling that has come out of several years of posting. nowadays most appeals for help are for the poor aged who need medical care.

gana, also note, that not everyone is made to be a doctor or engineer. i think one can get obsessed with reservations and think this is the solution for the remnants of poverty in our community.

sir, knowing our community, i can bet that if ever reservations for brahmins was enacted, the beneficiaries would be the middle class, who will have no conscience or hesitation to falsify salaries and wealth, and claim the benefits of reservation, without batting an eyelid. much the same as what other communities are doing today with regards to reservation.

think out of the box, i say. is b.a. economics still laughed at today, as it was when i graduated from high school 40 years ago? i loved economics and just the fear of being mocked and ridiculed, i would not even let my parents know my true interest.

today i regret it. our PM is an economist. we have an economist Nobel prize winner in Amartya Sen. sir, i think, we have, as a community, very dark blinders - we blind ourselves to the gold beyond our immediate noses, thanks to our short sight and a pitiable moanings of discriminations. i think it is best we get out of this mindset, and that alone, will a step forward towards prosperity.

thank you.

 

[Iyest]

Folks,

The issue is reservation-not whether there are gullible brahmins, poor brahmins, wealthy brahmins, blue eyed brahmins etc. And yes, there are many communities that are wealthier than brahmins as a group (chettiars for one come to mind) though I suspect brahmins are not the poorest.

How do we achieve reservation? We are still not poverty stricken as a whole community to claim it on the basis of caste alone. In any case, reservation based on economic criteria is bound to help those in the community that need it most. A few political leaders in the country have mentioned a small (5% or so) reservation based on economic criteria for all castes. Here the brahmin leadership has been found wanting. No follow up has been initiated to meet with leaders of other castes that are also denied reservation and present a united front. A few over zealous voices in TN demanded 7% reservation for brahmins alone! Such unreasonable demands only rekindle the age old fears of brahmins in the other communities besides making us the laughing stock of the state.

We can also learn from the christians in the state whose population is similar to brahmins. Learn to put up a united front. Thankfully, india is a parlimentary democracy, so all is not lost unlike a presidential system. In any constituency where brahmins are 5% or more of the electorate, they are bound to sway the results if they vote as a block (assuming they vote at all!). Instead the only modern mantra we hear from people is that they cannot do anything about the situation.Whether a brahmin male does sandyavandhanam or not, he is bound to chant this mantra a few times daily!

Is there a single brahmin organization that has even an approximate breakdown of the community population in the 234 constituencies of the state? What kind of negotiations have they been doing all these years without even basic information about their community?

Some are suggesting relocating to a different state. Even this needs to be done with some thought since the reservation evil started in TN but soon spread to other states. The quantum of reservation is now no less in Karnataka or Andhra. That leaves only Kerala as an option in the south for brahmins. Those who relocated to Delhi or UP (where the brahmin population is indeed above 7%) may stand a better chance in terms of exercising some political power whenever things turn really ugly as in TN. Does any brahmin organization offer any counseling to tamil brahmins leaving the state? Does anybody think ahead even to one or two generations? Or is each generation going to run from one place to another like nomads?

It appears that the community is somehow expecting things to turn their way with reservation even without doing basic homework. We have a situation where self proclaimed 'leaders' demand reservation without any knowledge of their own community distribution or poverty and education levels. The results have been there for all to see since the past forty years.

 

[RVR]

None of us are standing here against those who want to take up the establishment against reservation as a whole or getting reservation for our community from the appropriate authorities.

Let them follow their path and none of us here are objecting to it.

But please don't interfere in our attempt to help some members of our community for development and growth.

Personally I feel that population of our community in Tamilnadu has reduced from 4% earlier to may be around 1 to 3% now as per independent media reports.

It is going to be reduced further in the near future as younger generation is moving out at a much faster rate.

I will not be surprised if the population of our community is reduced to less than 1%

A simple calculation could be derived as follows

Total Tamilnadu Population Say 6 crores
Our community population say 2% = 12 lakhs of the total population
Average age 70
No.of students passing out 12th standard every year. 17,143 approx.
Out of the above, people below poverty line say 20% = 3429

80% of the students will manage themselves without our help.

I am personally interested in guiding and helping the remaining 3429 people.

If our community unites and helps these people every year, we can lift our community out of poverty at the earliest.

Let us unite and do it.

All the best

 

[pvraman]

v

Reservation in higher education and government jobs - I presume that you meant this one. The Brahmins shouldn't ask any reservation as long as there is open, unreserved quota. Only those who qualify by merit should enter higher education and govt. jobs (only applicable for Brahmins). Once highly educated, Brahmins should serve the society and spread their knowledge to as much people as they can. Our scriptures teach us to live the most simple life and spread knowledge and we should live by them. If Brahmins give up living as per Shastras, then it will be end of Sanatana Dharma. Nowadays, Brahmins are mostly sticking to material pleasure and their addiction to Mann, Maadhu and Ponn is growing.

Very well Put. A BIG YES.Nobility, earlier achieved by Simplicity. When we pursue the material pleasure where can one claim superiority. Brahmins ones well known for the righteous truthful nature. We loose it due to the material mad rush. Gandhi Ji showed us, with a will one can still live a simple & noble life. There is enough ways lead a dignified life, provided the primary evil - our own mindset should change.

 

[Iyest]

None of us are standing here against those who want to take up the establishment against reservation as a whole or getting reservation for our community from the appropriate authorities.

I don't think anybody is standing against helping the community in other ways either.

Let them follow their path and none of us here are objecting to it.

That is very weak. Given the situation facing the community, it is a necessity for people to help in all possible ways. Simply not being an obstacle is not much help. This is how a small community gets divided and becomes even less effective to do anything.

But please don't interfere in our attempt to help some members of our community for development and growth.

It is shameful if somebody does so.

I am personally interested in guiding and helping the remaining 3429 people.

Please let us know the details and many would be glad to help.

If our community unites and helps these people every year, we can lift our community out of poverty at the earliest.

It has been forty years late, but better late than never.

 

[RKB]

The apprehensions expressed are mostly due to the Social Stigma that these people feel from being termed as person of Backward Community or Most Backward Community. It is understandable for most of us like to live in nostalgic thought of pseudo glorious past of Brahmins. It is pseudo - because the glory is from Brahmins mental strength and not from their material are political strength. But today we see challenge to this mental strength!

It is true that we will raise as phoenix from our ashes. Even jews have proved such a possibility in the history. But that will happen by a movement leading to an uprise. Why not we initiate it now? I have earlier told that our demand for Reservation may eventually bring down the evil of Reservation!!

The Brahmins trying to live in Tamilnadu are now a part of Tamil Brahmin diaspora. But the truth is that this part is dwindling. The Handi Care International or ACCA is not going to check on this for they are also going to suggest migration. Though it has been clothed intelligently as a 'Service for poor Brahmins', it is only a mission to make some vested interest rich. There is no business without a vested interest!

 

[RVR]

The apprehensions expressed are mostly due to the Social Stigma that these people feel from being termed as person of Backward Community or Most Backward Community. It is understandable for most of us like to live in nostalgic thought of pseudo glorious past of Brahmins. It is pseudo - because the glory is from Brahmins mental strength and not from their material are political strength. But today we see challenge to this mental strength!

It is true that we will raise as phoenix from our ashes. Even jews have proved such a possibility in the history. But that will happen by a movement leading to an uprise. Why not we initiate it now? I have earlier told that our demand for Reservation may eventually bring down the evil of Reservation!!

The Brahmins trying to live in Tamilnadu are now a part of Tamil Brahmin diaspora. But the truth is that this part is dwindling. The Handi Care International or ACCA is not going to check on this for they are also going to suggest migration. Though it has been clothed intelligently as a 'Service for poor Brahmins', it is only a mission to make some vested interest rich. There is no business without a vested interest!

Sri RKB,

Please don't make wild allegations.

I suggested alternative opportunity for our members and Accountancy courses like ACCA are only options. I have not asked any body to join that course also.

I am not running any institution to impart education for ACCA or any other course.

If some body wants to pursue, let them pursue.

Without going through the whole posting don't talk `vested interest' and all that.

Can I conclude that by provoking our community members you have vested interest in enriching yourself.

Please be careful with your words and sentences.

 

[pvraman]

Association

Association can be formed with a noble cause which should be beneficial for ourselves and others as well. Association should be based on the basic values of brahmins with a common vision or view points. Try to focus, practice and enlarge the noble qualities which shall be the associations motive. Once with selfless intentions thus formed could be used to address the common problems. So the base "அஸ்த்திவாரம்" is important over which the association would be formed. Basically it should educate the members to adhere strictly the minimum values a brahmin should posses and have a uniform and good identity.

Its of no use, if one brahmin consumes alcohol , one is eating meat ((boasting as forward brahmin or backward brahmin!!) and one is sacred and following a simplistic spiritual life. I take the example of myself, when I was in my teens, i was not doing anything as a orthodox brahmin boy should be doing like basic sandhiyavandhanam and knowing few slokas and having even little knowledge of scriptures and all. I had friends from other communities, Who incidentally made fun of few such boys in agraharam who were a down to earth simple brahmin boys doing sandhyavandam 3 times etc etc. When I think about that, deeds of persons like me, made the boys to receive comments which they did not deserve. If there was a provision to have the right to call myself brahmin if only i followed this and have a basic education on the scriptures and procedures and way of life, then the differences in the qualities of agraharam boys who are now men would not be there.

No other caste has this kind wide difference within themselves as for as basic qualities are concerned. While, the one who is doing all these things rejoices on the treatment and the other fumes for the treatment for he did nothing to deserve. So as long as this inconsistency in values are there, we can never achieve the uniformity which is required for any association.

An example, to give lectures in Temples or madams about our duties and responsibilities, on particular days, evenings for those who does not know and esp, for kids who can grow with the principles (better than going to mall or movie). It may require little bit of discipline. It requires a lot of sacrifice from the materialistic point of view.

We (i am not telling all, only the people I see, who are many within our community), despite sporting visible symbols like Poonool and other tilakams - differentiating from the main stream, does all the work and have the characters of the main stream, which is a hypocrisy. So, if we see closely, both can not go together. So, live according to the symbols implying the swadharma or form a different group like any other caste which does not sport the symbols, dissolve in one of the groups/castes best like to follow, shunning from relating to the ancient brahmanas. ஆத்துக்கும் ஒரு கால் சேத்துக்கும் ஒரு கால். Thats the reason why we are ridiculed. The politicians are using this ambiguity to leverage their own personal benefit and who does not believe in this kind of things also criticize and the public too puzzled with this kind of ambiguity.

Considering this, forming an association on ideology esp brahmin's is not a small task, it requires lot of will and efforts.

Forming an association for materialistic goal such as reservation, will not hold longer and stronger. Due to the inherent nature of materialistic mind, it will break sooner or later even if with great effort formed one.

There is no doubt, due to the reservations the brahmins are expected to compete in GQ and expected give top performance with total devotion. Such person if qualified should be helped, by the association thus formed - would be a good work.

Such persons, thus qualified set an example for the humbleness and nobility by serving to the poor at free of cost - will not only lift himself but the image of entire community.

Sorry if the post hurts anyone. My two பைசாக்கள்.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

No, they do not need reservation. Reservation is humbug and humiliation of a different sort. If you are not cared for by the government, so be it. This has been clearly a move to pit people against people. The enlightened have always been inclusive kind. Only IT people are surging ahead. Does it mean that engineers, medicine men, technologist, entrepreneurs and the rest are to be cast aside. Even if they do, for how long? The enmity created by the successive governments by pure propaganda will wear out. It already does. The change will come as the self-centered, over-ambitious, dogmatic adventurists of mean order, disappear from the scene of opportunism. They have created only anti-sentiments.

The dire need is that Brahmins should recognise their own clan NOT TO OPPRESS OTHERS, but to rid of this suppression. The bane of brahmins has always been individual improvement. There has been no social interaction. Above all we should not concede to the canards churned out by the slushy politicians. Brahmins never oppressed anybody nor forced their opinions on others. They have been leading because they were all pioneers. When there were no takers, the brahmins accepted positions in the Raj. They became the leaders of Indepence Movement. They fought the government on law in their own language. Today’s glamourous tinsel world had brahmin pioneers. Most of the development efforts after independence were heralded by Tamil Brahmins. They never usurped those positions, but because there were no takers. There was no HRD then and the sunken eyes, yearning for earning to fill its span of belly (whiling away at hotels and restaurants on a cup of 10-paisa tea) attracted to be picked up to staff establishments. Todays contenders were sluggish not even cared for the opportunity nor for the person who took it.

To day everybody is usurping positions in the name religion, region and legion of castes. These tendencies have created an empire of corruption presided over by an empress and crowned clowns. Not only our own establishments, but even MNCs are maladministered by parochial interests and sheer political power. This edifice will not collapse but just will sink and dissipate beyond recognition. Then this “down-trodden” “scape-goats” will again resurrect this great country, India, that is Bharat. So, let us serve our own community without harming others.

 

[WeAreTheFire]

I did'nt even bother reading the other posts in the thread upon reading the title of this thread. I dont even feel like elaborating in fact.
Brahmins and reservation? We havent fallen from our grace so much as to stoop to levels of asking reservation.
The most intelligent race India has produced in such a self pity mode?
I find it hard to believe.
We have always been a million steps ahead of others, why the need for reservation now? We are denied positions of powers of position and others are given a head start, yet we make it ahead of the rat race.
And the same people are asking for reservation?

 

[Iyyarooraan]

RVRji...There is no use in talking against caste based reservation in India now. Also India will be having the best secular credentials than any other countries of this world now. One has to be a roman in Rome. Brahmins should demand for caste based reservation now.

aramakrishnan1 sir.. you sound like affluent in one posting and sound a pauper in another. Just tell clearly whether you want reservation or not.

Would it not be good idea to seek a separate district or 2 adjacent ones in each state within the constitution. Or should we go the Isareli way?

 

[Iyest]

Would it not be good idea to seek a separate district or 2 adjacent ones in each state within the constitution. Or should we go the Isareli way?

Are you kidding? It won't happen and nobody is going to give it now. Sir C.P.Ramaswamy Iyer was the only one who had the vision and foretold what would happen to brahmins in a democracy down the road. He asked for a separate state but was laughed at by others, including the then brahmins with their "know it all" attitude.

Going the Israeli way would mean that brahmins must settle as groups in certain districts and account for more than 5% of the population. That is the only way out. Who is going to guide them and make it happen? It might be a 20 or 30 year process.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

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Iyest
Junior Member

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Folks,

The issue is reservation-not whether there are gullible brahmins, poor brahmins, wealthy brahmins, blue eyed brahmins etc. And yes, there are many communities that are wealthier than brahmins as a group (chettiars for one come to mind) though I suspect brahmins are not the poorest.

How do we achieve reservation? We are still not poverty stricken as a whole community to claim it on the basis of caste alone. In any case, reservation based on economic criteria is bound to help those in the community that need it most. A few political leaders in the country have mentioned a small (5% or so) reservation based on economic criteria for all castes.......................................................................

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I find the above post more near reality and realistic in aim. But ist somehow got overshadowed by emotion and anguish ,that it strayed a bit into avoidable territories of seemingly allegations. But I agree with the sincerity of intention behind the pos, though I may not be able to support for words used..

Even in my earlier posts I have underlined the ground reality that , in the absence of swelling numbers , without having any ability to tilt balances of win/fail in even a panchayat election, no political party will heed to any of our requests or demands, however justified it may be ,and even when personally political leaders are convinced bout it.
It is here that we need a realistic approach. If not able to get something standing alone, it is prudent to get I by joining similar minded. In politics, diametrically opposite parties are having opportunistic working alliances and coalition.So it is a practicable solution. Then, consistency in pursuing our demands is needed. Without bursting blind shots at politicians, and some well wishers from our own community and from similar minded ones, we should support the politician who comes more sympathetic to our community(in word and deed),and openly support him even if initial losses may be there.But our stand should be consistent.

Again ,I repeat my stand that, overnight it will not happen.It should start from micro level. Start it from ward,village ,panchayat,town,district,state etc gradually escalating. Definitely success will be there.

There are lot of suggestion points in the above post also.

There are many people in our community ( as well as in Hindu Society as a whole), who feel it infra dig to openly admit that they belong to our community,and the easy way to get “accepted” is to say and write against all established traditions, and shout that something available outside is the Best. Let them do so for their happiness.
To quote from usual examples in daily life, even if a crow paints itself any other colour and wants to pass of as a different bird, no other flock will accept it. By the time it realizes its folly, it would have been isolated from its own folks also.

If this category stops any positive action of unity by putting spokes at the start itself with negation, there is another category which cause the same effect causing inaction... sample like ................

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If Brahmins give up living as per Shastras, then it will be end of Sanatana Dharma. Nowadays, Brahmins are mostly sticking to material pleasure and their addiction to Mann, Maadhu and Ponn is growing.
Very well Put. A BIG YES.Nobility, earlier achieved by Simplicity. When we pursue the material pleasure where can one claim superiority. Brahmins ones well known for the righteous truthful nature. We loose it due to the material mad rush. http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/........................
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The need of the hour is to present a unified stand, unified in letter ,spirit and action.
While help and support from wellminded philanthropists, is welcome in some individual cases as start up,Mutual help by individuals, community collective action associating the philanthropists is the best.

When focused actions become successful ,and decisive numbers are displayed, simultaneous efforts towards political alignment will fetch results.

Migration is not a permanent solution. Migrant is left undisturbed, as long as he is harmless guest. Once the hosts feel that they are threatened—(this is becoming a fearful reality in many countries), resistance develops in that place, and unwelcome actions start.

East or West, our own country is best for us. It is our birthright to be here and here only. We can go as guest anywhere. Nobody is going to accept us as their own.

As noted in some posts, we need a strong willed Leader.
Let us hope He will rise from among us.

“Yadaa Yadda hi Dharmasya........

Let us start the search now itself in right earnest. Starting from our own neighbourhood......

We should have the spirit as during Independence struggle.. Do or Die..

“Seithu mudi illayel Sethu madi..”
Youth brigade is ready for unified action.. Let us use their positive energy..

Greetings

 

[RKB]

Reservation is definitely a vested interest. Brahmins should not capitalise on the desperation of the fellow Brahmins and in that way the demand for Reservation is different. If I say that ACCA is propagating migration and thus breaking Brahmin families, it is about ACCA and not about you. You are doing something that you feel is good for now. I am pointing out something adverse in it in longer term. Understand sir.

Sri RKB,

Please don't make wild allegations.

I suggested alternative opportunity for our members and Accountancy courses like ACCA are only options. I have not asked any body to join that course also.

I am not running any institution to impart education for ACCA or any other course.

If some body wants to pursue, let them pursue.

Without going through the whole posting don't talk `vested interest' and all that.

Can I conclude that by provoking our community members you have vested interest in enriching yourself.

Please be careful with your words and sentences.

 

[RKB]

sir, About 3000 Lecturers are appointed to colleges by the present Government and there are some Brahmins (should be less than 10) in it. But the truth is that they earned their position through some dubious means (ofcourse they had qualification and experience ... but!!). Why should someone help such people. That too Brahmins!!!

The ground reality in Tamilnadu has to be understood. An association filing a Writ in the High Court alone has got greater chance to be admitted. Therefore an association is required to comply with formalities.

An Ideal Brahmin is non existent now. This fact has to be accepted by any association and therefore the association has to endure the imperfections now and should envisage for Ideals only in the long run.

Association can be formed with a noble cause which should be beneficial for ourselves and others as well. ......
There is no doubt, due to the reservations the brahmins are expected to compete in GQ and expected give top performance with total devotion. Such person if qualified should be helped, by the association thus formed - would be a good work.

Such persons, thus qualified set an example for the humbleness and nobility by serving to the poor at free of cost - will not only lift himself but the image of entire community.

Sorry if the post hurts anyone. My two பைசாக்கள்.

 

[RVR]

Teaching profession in India is losing its charm. Indian Institute of Technologies and other national institutions doesn't have good lecturers and professors nowadays. Once the present batch retires, they are going to face lot of shortages.

It is mainly because salaries offered to them is quite low as compared to private sector. A person after completing a basic degree (either three or four years) gets about 40 to 50 thousand rupees a month after just two or three years in a IT/BPO/Call Center job whereas a person who has obtained a doctorate degree is getting much lower salary.

Salary levels in Government colleges and universities are quite low as compared to the private sector and hence they are not able to attract talents. More than that reservation policy will discriminate them continuously in promotions and hence our community is avoiding teaching profession deliberately.

Education is almost privatized now and our community can start schools and colleges as charitable institutions. We can offer decent salaries to the teachers and at the same time charge nominal tuition fees to students. If we keep good quality and charge reasonable fees, we can attract students.

Some of our members may not like but I have to quote the Catholic Institutions like Loyala college, Stella Maris college as good examples. We can employ mostly our own community teachers and at the same time offer free/subsidized education to poor students of our community.

Let us hope that our community unites and establishes good institutions.

All the best

 

[RKB]

We say that Brahmins have duty to 'Spread Knowledge' and to work without minding for remuneration. Now we also hear from you that 'Teaching' has lost its charm among Brahmins!!! What has happened to all the institutions of Education and Health care established in Private sector by the Brahmins. Even the Sankara Madam's venture has been sold out. So are the many Engineering Colleges started by the Brahmins. Only the SASTRA survives by dubious means and it's days are also counted after this Deemed University fiasco!!!

Sustainability of ventures is a problem for any Brahmin in Tamilnadu. The corporates like The Hindu, India Cements are there for they have conveniently sacrificed their Brahminical heritage. They are of no good to Brahmins uprise now.

Reservation alone can rejuvenate.

Teaching profession in India is losing its charm. Indian Institute of Technologies and other national institutions doesn't have good lecturers and professors nowadays. Once the present batch retires, they are going to face lot of shortages.

It is mainly because salaries offered to them is quite low as compared to private sector.

Today it is UGC VI Pay commission scale. You are wrong sir.

A person after completing a basic degree (either three or four years) gets about 40 to 50 thousand rupees a month after just two or three years in a IT/BPO/Call Center job whereas a person who has obtained a doctorate degree is getting much lower salary.

Now it is recession and IT sector is conspicuous now by its absence!!

Salary levels in Government colleges and universities are quite low as compared to the private sector and hence they are not able to attract talents. More than that reservation policy will discriminate them continuously in promotions and hence our community is avoiding teaching profession deliberately.

Brahmins should take teaching even when it is not attractive. That is what is our Dharma!!!

Education is almost privatized now and our community can start schools and colleges as charitable institutions. We can offer decent salaries to the teachers and at the same time charge nominal tuition fees to students. If we keep good quality and charge reasonable fees, we can attract students.

Some of our members may not like but I have to quote the Catholic Institutions like Loyala college, Stella Maris college as good examples. We can employ mostly our own community teachers and at the same time offer free/subsidized education to poor students of our community.

Even to get Minority status we have to work our way through the Courts. Let us demand for both Minority Status and Reservation. The Institutions that you have referred have special status sir!!!

Let us hope that our community unites and establishes good institutions.

All the best

 

[Dr.S.Ramanathan]

Dr.S.Ramanathan.

I think the time has come to crystallise our thinking for action.
Reservation on the basis of economic criteria seems to be the closest to reality, if pursued properly.
A more important thing would be to seek minority status. Muslims are a vast greater minority community than brahmins.All arguments can be advanced to group brahmins as a community, which indeed they are .
Support to the BPL brahmins in rural and town areas, so as to uplift their children educationally, is a moral and social responsibility,nay, necessity of the day, from the better placed from the same village or town. This is an immediate requirement.
A movement should be started to make all reservations only for a finite period and not extend indefinitely and infinitely.. Ambedkar himself did not want the reservation for a period of more than ten years.
Such a movement, when succeeds, will solve all the problems automatically.
Regards and respects,
Ramanathan.

 

[Iyest]

Reservation on the basis of economic criteria seems to be the closest to reality, if pursued properly.

We have been discussing how to pursue it or rather how to even start the process within the community. The fact is we don't have a clue about 'our' community. Many in the community are computer experts but they don't know the population distribution of the community, how many are BPL, how many are just above BPL etc. I suspect we don't know how many students got admitted to government professional colleges last year either. And yet, we still expect political leaders to grant reservation of some kind! Because of our constant pleading!!

A more important thing would be to seek minority status. Muslims are a vast greater minority community than brahmins.All arguments can be advanced to group brahmins as a community, which indeed they are .

We are talking about dealing with a state population fed on brahmin hatred for half a century. Do you think any dravidian political party is going to listen to our rational arguments? One doesn't need fancy arguments to see that many classified as BC are financially better off than brahmins. Even though it is wrong they get it because of their voting numbers. Today, politicians do what the majority wants. Not what is right. That is page 1 of lesson 1.

Support to the BPL brahmins in rural and town areas, so as to uplift their children educationally, is a moral and social responsibility,nay, necessity of the day, from the better placed from the same village or town. This is an immediate requirement.

It has been a requirement for many decades. And let us not forget the women. They are also half the community. As an example, look at the way the dikshithars in chidambaram have denied girl children from going to school. Who is to be blamed? Now with their numbers and clout dwindling and poverty at their doorstep, imagine their future.

A movement should be started to make all reservations only for a finite period and not extend indefinitely and infinitely.. Ambedkar himself did not want the reservation for a period of more than ten years.

A wate of time and energy. Ambedkar and Gandhi have no practical relevance in todays political situation. Do you think the politicians don't know what Ambedkar said? Unfortunately some in the community are still not aware of the reality and still prefer to bury their heads under the deep sands of the Marina.

Such a movement, when succeeds, will solve all the problems automatically.

The only movement that can succeed is the movement of large numbers concentrated in some constituencies. Such a situation needs to be created by voluntary resettlement if needed. Who is willing to do it? Even then it would take 20 plus years and above all a strong leadership that can demand "either grant reservation or be prepared to loose these constituencies". Sadly, the chances of these things happening are almost zero. I would be glad to be proved wrong.