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Reason for Conversion to Islam/Christianity ?

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Before answering that, I have a small but strange question, which needs to be answered with a deep thought..


What exactly is the problem(for others), if one chooses to change his faith?
 
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It would be great anyone can clarify the following:-

1.Why people are converting to Islam/Christianity ?
People have little knowledge is one thing secondly poverty, it has been taken advantage by Muslims and Christians to convert them.
2.What will be happen to them after death ?
Who has seen, what is happening after the death. We can not comment on this.
3.If the converted people, wants to come back to community (as a Brahmin) Can they ? If "Yes" How ? If "No" Why ?
They themselves come back and silently joining. There is no drive is required to reconvert them. Where is the question of converting into Brahmin?
 
Spiritual Seedlings.

To All: Here is a answer fromEknath Easwarans Book Meditation;Commonsence Directions for An Uncomman Life.:welcome: When I say we need to be selective in our company,I am not talking aboutwithdrawing into a little group and refusing to have any contact with peoplewho do not do as we do. We should be courteous and friently with every one,aware of their feelings and points of view, and avoid being judgmental. I am stressing the need to build deep relationships with those who welcome the changes we are trying to make and whowill help us make them.

When a seedling is planted in the countryside, it is fenced in so it will have some protection. Similarly, as spritual seedlings, it is a good idea to surround ourselves with the protection of others who are spritually minded. In time, of course, when our new ways of thought, speech and action have taken a firm hold, we can stand in any company without being uprooted. Far from returning to our old patterns of conditioning, we will influence others by our personal example to change their patterns as well.

Wherever people gather for selfless ends, there is a vast augmentation of their individual capacities. Something wonderful, something momentous happens. An irresistible force begins to move, which, though we may not see it, is going to change our world.

In this lies the power and the meaning of spritual companionship.

( Courtesy spritual link RSSB)
The conversion to Islam\Christianity is only for money, muscular power. SRK
 
Dear Sri SRK Ji,

You said: "The conversion to Islam\Christianity is only for money, muscular power. SRK"

Please elaborate why you think that ALL such conversions are so. You mean to say there are no conversions based on one's choice?

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear "gladguy"மஹேஷ்,

This is a big subject, cannot be answered by simple Q&A.There may be many personal reasons for individuals converting to other Religions. But I found a few important underlying reasons that force people to seek refuge in other religions.

1) First. To get Social Respect among the community is one of the important causes. The undue discrimination in Hindu society towards the oppressed, has forced many Harijans and Dalits to fall for conversion. Nothing Spiritual in these conversions. Gandhiji has tried his best to reverse the trend by helping the Harijans. Christian clergy is more organised and well governed by hierarchy. They expand their activities of proselytization by propaganda and Service. They are well funded. But the fact is the Converts gain sociel status once they embrace the new Religion. This you will find true in the case of Dalits and Adivasis.

2) Second. Many inter religious marriages out of love has forced people to resort to Conversion. Here also not for Spiritual reasons.

3) Third: Spiritual: Few individuals who find the disciplined approach of other Religions more condusive to their Spiritual aspitations get converted... .

For the Second question, my answer is simple. Nothing different will happen to any living thing after death. "Death is a great equalizer", there is no discrimination in death.

For the third question: My answer is Yes, Any one can become a "Hindu". Though theree is nothing found in our accepted scripturess on conversion, Religious sects like Arya Samaj, Brahmo Samaj, ISKCON, VHP perform reconversions to "Hindu Religion"..In the past also there must have been reconversions from Biddhism and Jainism to Hinuism in our Country. We have no authuntic information as to how this was done..

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
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The conversion to Islam\Christianity is only for money, muscular power. SRK

I would rephrase this as The conversion to Christianity is predominantly influenced by money while conversion to Islam is predominantly by force.

As to why it should concern "others" if someone would change his / her faith, here are the reasons

a) Being part of a religion is being part of a larger eco system of culture, tradition and practices. So the changes to this eco system should be the concern of everyone who belongs to this eco system.

b) If i am paying my taxes honestly, i have every right to be concerned about a tax evader. Likewise, i have every right to be concerned about my co-religionist if he is being unlawfully influenced.

c) The organized structure of christian missionary conversion program could rival any top MNC's organizational setup. The amount of money that is being earmarked to "harvest souls" and the methods (usually fradulent) adopted by these missionaries are scaring.

d) After been promised "equality" in their new adopted religion, the converts often find that they are still at the lowest rung of the pyramid. The christian missionaries have successfully 'marketed' the caste system of Hinduism to harvest souls and later use the same to continue subjucation in their new faith. 'Dalit Christians' is an oxymoron for a faith which promises equality

e) Very often the process of conversion is done thru indoctrination. Christian missionaries heap abuse on Hindu gods and try to ingrain in the minds of the followers of other faith that they are worshipping false gods.

f) Saying that how the foundation of Hinduism cannot be shaken, is actually trying to lull us from sensing the impending disaster.

g) Post conversion, the missionaries use the converts to sneak into the hindu cultural system and slowly take over the reigns of culture. May be a 100 years from now, Ramayanam could become the story of Jesus. Christian missionaries want to culturally destroy India.

Having said that, I am not against conversions per se. i am all for a transparent, fact based, legal conversion.

To me each religion represents a shopping mall. Let everyone spread their wares in a honest, competitive environment stressing on what they have got to offer (positive campaign) instead of casting asperions on another faith.

And may the best man win.
 
g) Post conversion, the missionaries use the converts to sneak into the hindu cultural system and slowly take over the reigns of culture. May be a 100 years from now, Ramayanam could become the story of Jesus. Christian missionaries want to culturally destroy India.

Actually I take this in a positive note, ie, other religions accepting & integrating with the Indian-Hindu culture. Isn't that a welcome sign for harmony?

In the past,one of the major complaint sang parivar had against missionaries is about their affinity to 'Western culture'.

Soon after, they changed for the best to 'Integrate with the Indian culture'. Latin Hymns were changed to Tamil Carnatic Hymns. Some hymns followed Devaram.. Oil lambs replaced the altar candles. Aarrathi instead of incense. Pongal was celebrated with great fanfare in churches.Mary's attire changed to Indian saree and JC got draped in white dhothi. Jesuits principals shed their cassocs and moved in to normal pant&shirt or even veshti and sandals.

I think, this should be taken in a positive note, and there is something to learn from it.

We have often heard many calling TamilBrahmins as Aryans..But have you heard any one calling Tamil Christians as Italians or Israelites?
 
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Actually I take this in a positive note, ie, other religions accepting & integrating with the Indian-Hindu culture. Isn't that a welcome sign for harmony?

This is not harmony it's all about money.

The process of "indigenisation" of christianity is a time tested one. There's no problem with that.

But in the garb of indigenisation, the local culture shouldnt be destroyed. I suspect in a few years from now, just as a small sanctorum for Ganapathi is a must for every temple, Missionaries may influence HR&CE Dept to have a statue of Jesus in every temple.

In the past,one of the major complaint sang parivar had against missionaries is about their affinity to 'Western culture'.

Missionaries were trying to position "western culture" as the only "culture". Missionaries quickly understood the rules of the "harvest game" and they changed track to suit the local population.


Soon after, they changed for the best to 'Integrate with the Indian culture'. Latin Hymns were changed to Tamil Carnatic Hymns. Some hymns followed Devaram.. Oil lambs replaced the altar candles. Aarrathi instead of incense. Pongal was celebrated with great fanfare in churches.Mary's attire changed to Indian saree and JC got draped in white dhothi. Jesuits principals shed their cassocs and moved in to normal pant&shirt or even dhothi.

Pongal is a harvest festival and perhaps has very less religious significance. Other practices of worship - hymns, oil "lambs", aarathis - i dont cavil, it's their choice to adopt.

Using carnatic music is also fine except when used as an overlap. Popular carnatic songs were morphed into christian hymns, which i consider to be a serious insult to the memory of the Carnatic Trinity.

Missionaries have tried best to "Hinduise Christianity" (however oxymoronish), to really drive home the point that "nothing much would change" for a "convert".

While they have adopted everything, it is interesting that the obsequies have remained intact. I dont know of a christian who was cremated, if you ignore Staines.

But have you heard any one calling Tamil Christians as Italians or Israelites?

TBs are still being called as "Aryans" to accentuate the AIT myth. It proved to be a successful tactic with the gullible tamilians but not any longer.

After exhorting the tamilians to replace the "Aryan", the "Dravidan" turned to be equally a கயவன்.

Tamil Christians cannot be called Italians or Israelites because everyone knows that they were originally Hindus.
 
There are christians to whom Christ is the only (avatara) God. This is similar to hindus having one chosen diety as an ishtadevata. Therefore when one wishes to adopt Christ as their ishtadevata, it is their own personal choice. There are ppl who have converted out of faith and their own will, and it is very much an acceptable norm (atleast i have no prob with that).

However, what i do not tolerate is the abuse of hindu scriptures, hindu way of life, gods and goddesses to create disaffection and dislike against the same, just to help 'harvest' numbers.

This especially happens in poor communities where literacy is low (poor people will beleieve whatever the pastor tells them without verifying things). They will also beleive a pastor or an islamist who tells them that caste is the reason for their poverty, and in that way they tend to suceed in turning an indian against a fellow indian.

Add the lure of money, ofcourse a man will agree with the person who brings him a neat fortune (why Jesus or Allah, a man may be willing to sing paens for satan in return for a house, car, shop or business or even a few hundred rupees).

Not only is the abuse of hinduism unacceptable, but it is also a potentially dangerous situation. In karnataka, in the recent years due to twisted missionary propaganda, we see poor people calling themselves oppressed dravidians and referring to northindians, brahmins and well off lingayaths as oppresive aryans. I also heard the naxals in andhra, chattigarh, etc, consider themselves oppressed dravidians on the same lines.

This type of pitting an indian against another indian on communal lines can easily be taken advantage of by outsiders, it can pose a danger to the nation's security in the long run though it really does seem like a trivial thing as such.

However, have heard that converts do not really have an easy time (depending on where one lives). Among the poor, they are discriminated against by their own lot (i heard of an incident where the hindus of a village kept new christian converts out of the annual temple jatra procession celebration).

Have met monks who have recounted personal experiences of some converts, who wanted to revert back to hindusim. When they find themselves being discriminated against by their own relatives, or when a family finds their children not able to get a suitable matrimonial alliance due to their converted status or when a poor guy no longer receives money, etc, they tend to becomes disllussioned with their new religion and revert back to hindusim, Arya samaj esp has brought many back to the hindu fold.

Actually, i think the whole tactic of trying to nativize christianity is really silly, it probably shows that christianity is rather hollow as a religion (lacking in depth and susbtance) as such and cannot survive in india otherwise.
 
Shri.hariharan, thanks for the interesting detailed response. Here is my take on few of the important points..

If missionaries are technically evaluting or comparing gods and try to prove one as wrong, then, you and I and every citizen has the equal right to reject that statement, if it is wrong? Also, one can also use that opportunity to prove missionaries idea of God as wrong god. Thats our fundamental right. So where is the problem here?
After all, for every scientific inventions, there are 1000 another men in lab, busy working out to prove him wrong. Thats the human nature.


You are worried about morphing of carnatic music by missionaries, as an insut to Trimurthy, but fail to understand music is all about 7 notes and music is for all the mankind. Imagine our Indian music industry without western instruments like Guitar,Organ,Sax, Grand Piano etc.. And most of the popular western songs are morphed/distorted version of Mozart & Bach.. Do we call that as an insult? As a lover of Carnatic music, I feel pride when its copied by someone.. Hope you wont call George Harrison (Beatles) and Miles Davis as blasphemers to Thirumurthies.

And pointing christians for not cremating their dead in line with Indian culture, I think it would become a suicidal argument.. How may people in India torch the dead? Majority of the Indians bury the dead esp, South Indians. Most of the ancient tamil excavation talks about 'Thazhi' (huge mud pot as coffin). Even Mohanjadaro and Harappans followed this system.. I think, this point cannot be used to refer as a unified relection of Indian culture..

Again, you should explain in detail,listing the damages done to Indian culture, due to conversions.

In my view, if any one copies our culture, I would only feel proud of it..
 
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to Krs, sir At present I am Staying at Tambaram East and 98% my surrouding people are Converted to Chirstianity.80% of them Poor and hailed from down south and with help of Money to purchase day to day need.Slowly started Preaching Jesus teaching and mis Translated version of Tamil scripturesFor e.g Bali,Fire God, Murugan, Venkatajapathi etc.With in 13 years 15 Small and 3 big Prayer Halls and big and small Churchs established. More over even My Asst convert to Chirestianity and he become Rev today he is Corepathi.Once he said that via Srilanka they get Money for converson.When I young and at Yercaud the Hill population was mostly Chirstians.All most all schools run by Churchs.Those days weekly 3 days every one get Imported Milkpowder, Corn products etc free. Even as school children we also getour share(we give it to our Driver or gardener) Since only Two Family was TB'S at that time , Now a days I am witnesing for Foreign job's the conversion took . Also they are very clever to publish books suitable words matching with Hindu Drama way.I am also having good frients among some of the Preachers and they will ask me about my reserch works onSound and Light. Yesderday I have received a Book TiTled Prophetical Books for my comments about their reserch on Siva Siddhanda and Hindu Gods ,Village Gods and small gods. Their interprtation is to full more and more Hindu s to their way by saying that Jesus will re born and one and only God he is.Another thing their Mission to achive their GOOL.
 
to sapr333ji sir, In this world no one can destroy any religion ore culture.The past histry says so many religions come and gone. First I want to say Our great religion is not named as Hinduism it may be Called Vedha Matham.Matham also wrong word we may say Vedha Vazhi.(path).Man created things will perishable.so one day the Maha Pralayam will come and every thing vanish but Vedham will survive. With regards S.R.K.
 
This especially happens in poor communities where literacy is low (poor people will beleieve whatever the pastor tells them without verifying things).

Dear HH, seeking your outlook on this data.

1) Kerala/Goa which ranks top in social index like Literacy/Percapita/women empowerment/health care also ranks high in Christian population.

2) Indian Christians and Jains ranks top in Literacy,percapita income and job participation (Census data)

3) In 50 years south korea became top 10 in global economy and in the same span became a Christian majority country too..

Here, I'm finding difficult to relate poverty & illiteracy, to the point you are claiming about cheating pastors.
 
to sapr333ji sir, In this world no one can destroy any religion ore culture.The past histry says so many religions come and gone. First I want to say Our great religion is not named as Hinduism it may be Called Vedha Matham.Matham also wrong word we may say Vedha Vazhi.(path).


Shri.esarkey, this is exactly what I was also telling, in my earlier post...

Money and power cannot shake the foundation of the 5000 year old Great Hindu traditions..

Unfortunately, Shri.hari shares another view that 'Its actually trying to lull us from sensing the impending disaster'.


>>to Krs, sir At present I am Staying at Tambaram East and 98% my surrouding people are Converted to Chirstianity.>>>

Could you please authenticate it.. Looks like an exaggerated figure..
 
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If missionaries are technically evaluting or comparing gods and try to prove one as wrong, then, you and I and every citizen has the equal right to reject that statement, if it is wrong? Also, one can also use that opportunity to prove missionaries idea of God as wrong god. Thats our fundamental right. So where is the problem here?

"Technical evaluation" gimme a break !!!

So what are they, the christian missionaries ? And how valid is their self-annointment as "evaluators" of another faith ?

And pray (pun intended) what techniques do they use to evaluate ? BS7799, SOX, Agile, Lean or CMMI ? Just what ?

I think the whole concept of "evaluating a faith" is outlandish. Saying so, i am not trying to shove the problem areas of hinduism under the carpet but by no means can someone come and "evaluate" hindusim.

Raja Ram Mohan Roy didnt evaluate Hinduism when he wanted to get rid of Sati ;

Vivekananda didnt evaluate Christianity when he reached out to Christians with his famous "Brothers & Sisters" address ;

It is almost impossible for someone with only an acadmic view of Hinduism to acknowledge it's greatness. It goes for every faith.

Can a non-hindu with only an academic knowledge of hinduism make a convincing case for Dwaita or Advaitha ? Both have an equal and indelible place in the Hindu system.

What the Christian missionaries engage in, is unadulterated blasphemy. Calling Gods and Goddesses as "prostitutes" as was done by a Christian Church in Karnataka, cant quite qualify as "Technical Evaluation". And the Archbishop of Delhi who later appeared in a television program showed absolutely no remorse at the slur but went on only to express his anguish at the violence that was unleashed subsequently.

Whatever you may try to obfuscate, Christianity is not the host religion of this nation. There's certainly a place for Christianity and Christians to be treated alike but no more than that. I dont think, even in the face of the several warts that Hinduism has, there can be any sanction for a blatant, cocksure blasphemy by the Church.

I dont believe in Christianity being "first among equals" and certainly dismiss any notions of subservience to it's suzerainity.

Actually by "evaluating" other religions, christianity is selling itself short (pun intended).

A faith whose basic tenet was "revised" obviously cannot have the chutzpah to mock other faiths.

You are worried about morphing of carnatic music by missionaries, as an insut to Trimurthy, but fail to understand music is all about 7 notes and music is for all the mankind.

Beyond saying that it is an insult, actually i am not worried. There's always a place for plagiarists as there is for the purists. Also given my poor appetite for classical music, i think there are persons better placed than me to worry about this.

Imagine our Indian music industry without western instruments like Guitar,Organ,Sax, Grand Piano etc.. And most of the popular western songs are morphed/distorted version of Mozart & Bach.. Do we call that as an insult? As a lover of Carnatic music, I feel pride when its copied by someone.. Hope you wont call George Harrison (Beatles) and Miles Davis as blasphemers to Thirumurthies.

Obfuscation.

My point was limited to using a 'Thyagaraja Krithi' to overlap a christian hymn or carol.

I was NOT referring to using the same Raaga.

And come to think of it, you were in the forefront of a copyright violation in this forum, not so long ago.

Hmmm....

And pointing christians for not cremating their dead in line with Indian culture, I think it would become a suicidal argument.. How may people in India torch the dead? Majority of the Indians burry the dead esp, in South Indian. Most of the ancient tamil excavation talks about 'Thazhi' , ie, burying the dead in mud pots. Even Mohanjadaro and Harappans followed this system.. I think, this point cannot be used to refer as a unified relection of Indian culture..

I tend to think that among Hindus, those who cremate the dead (not torch, you cremate someone with honour not torch) and those who bury would be probably in equal proportion.

So it became convenient for the missionaries to take umbrage under this fact and continue their practice.

Talking of obsequies, the argument, but naturally would be "suicidal" in nature.

Again, you should explain in detail,listing the damages done to Indian culture, due to conversions.

In my view, if any one copies our culture, I would only feel proud of it..

I am not an authority to state the "damages" to the Indian culture but i think there's enough proof if one would bother to look around as to how "christianity" is creeping upon india.

I would neither feel proud or dismayed about someone copying "our" culture but i would certainly "question" even if i cant resist attempts to "substitute" the local culture.

I am not keen on "amalgamation" but certainly i am against "acquisition".
 
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Money and power cannot shake the foundation of the 5000 year old Great Hindu traditions..

Unfortunately, Shri.hari shares another view that 'Its actually trying to lull us from sensing the impending disaster'.

Nice try !

The methods of missionaries vary from shocking to befriending and so i am not surprised.
 
I agree with Hariharanji. "Inculturation" procedures as adopted by zealous Christian missionaries is dangerous because it destroys indigenous cultures, traditions and practices. You can make a poor Hindu today recite Om Jesus Namaha but after a generation what remains is only Jesus. It is like today lot of Christians or converts do not know that December 25th was originally the day of Sun worship as it denoted the beginning of the Winter Solstice. It was conveniently adopted by early Christians as Christmas as what better way to attract the new converts.

I think conversion activity is only going to increase in the years to come. Islam is making great inroads in Europe. Church attendance is falling drastically all over Europe and USA. The Church cannot undertake conversion activities in China or the Gulf. The next best opportunity is countries like India and Sri Lanka. The Catholic Church in India is already the biggest landowner after the government. Its outlay is more than the Indian navy. And it does not come under any law like the Temple Act. Inculturation techniques like creating a Indian Bible and borrowing concepts from the Vedas does not denote that they are proud of the Hindu heritage. For the missionaries, the processes are different while the goalpost never shifts.

One of the common accusations by Christians or Muslims is the caste system in Hinduism has deliberately kept people poor and they are converting them to lift people out of poverty and oppression. So what about poverty in Africa? 45% of the population there is Muslims while 40% is Christian. Can we Hindus go there and start converting the Africans? The truth is a Hindu India is now the prime target for conversion by both Christians and Muslims. While Hindu population has been decimated in countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh, Christian and Muslim populations have grown in India. I have no problems with peace loving Christians and Muslims. But if they are going to target the Hindus for conversion and assuming they succeed what will be their next objective. Would they start targeting each other for conversion? Where is the end to this?
 
>>to Krs, sir At present I am Staying at Tambaram East and 98% my surrouding people are Converted to Chirstianity.>>>

Could you please authenticate it.. Looks like an exaggerated figure..

I also think so.

How can 2% continue to be Hindus ?
 
Ok Ok.. Chill out.. For argument sake, temporarily, let me buy all your points..

Whats your action plan to 'Stop Conversions?'...
 
Dear Sapr

Shri.hariharan, thanks for the interesting detailed response. Here is my take on few of the important points..

If missionaries are technically evaluting or comparing gods and try to prove one as wrong, then, you and I and every citizen has the equal right to reject that statement, if it is wrong? Also, one can also use that opportunity to prove missionaries idea of God as wrong god. Thats our fundamental right. So where is the problem here?
After all, for every scientific inventions, there are 1000 another men in lab, busy working out to prove him wrong. Thats the human nature.


You are worried about morphing of carnatic music by missionaries, as an insut to Trimurthy, but fail to understand music is all about 7 notes and music is for all the mankind. Imagine our Indian music industry without western instruments like Guitar,Organ,Sax, Grand Piano etc.. And most of the popular western songs are morphed/distorted version of Mozart & Bach.. Do we call that as an insult? As a lover of Carnatic music, I feel pride when its copied by someone.. Hope you wont call George Harrison (Beatles) and Miles Davis as blasphemers to Thirumurthies.

And pointing christians for not cremating their dead in line with Indian culture, I think it would become a suicidal argument.. How may people in India torch the dead? Majority of the Indians bury the dead esp, South Indians. Most of the ancient tamil excavation talks about 'Thazhi' (huge mud pot as coffin). Even Mohanjadaro and Harappans followed this system.. I think, this point cannot be used to refer as a unified relection of Indian culture..

Again, you should explain in detail,listing the damages done to Indian culture, due to conversions.

In my view, if any one copies our culture, I would only feel proud of it..

Read the following links to know more about damages wrought by "inculturation".

Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com
 
To Hari and sapr, This figure is the latest based upon a election for a Big Church here.ToTal Population of my area is 21,389.(last Ward Election) the Church said their membership 20thousand plus and that theypuchased 23thousand water Bottles,and cooldrinks. My figure is corret.More over In our area All this christions will give money to do all type of Pujas in Hindu Small gods Temples. To Stop Conversions, Firest we must unite all Tamil speaking Hindu's to bring under one Umperla.No deviation from Hindu faith.Equal status to All Hindu(no Caste Basis). s.r.k
 
Ok Ok.. Chill out.. For argument sake, temporarily, let me buy all your points..

Whats your action plan to 'Stop Conversions?'...

After staunchly refuting that conversions had anything to do with money power, it is bit strange that you opt to "buy" my points.

Anyways,

Let me also assume, albeit temporarily, that you are seriously concerned about Hindusim, and so here's my proposal.

a) Bring in a "Pro-Conversion" law to encourage fact based conversions. Per this law, everyone would be free to peddle their religion in a free, transparent manner. Those who opt to change should declare their intention and confirm that they are doing so out of their free will. They should also be required to change all their personal markers (name etc..) to that of their new adopted faith. No more Christian Anand Mahadevans or Raghavendra Lawrences.

b) Discourage continuation of any benefits to those who have converted that would accrue to them from any residual identities from their former faith.

c) Respect places of worship of every faith and ban any distribution of any material deriding other faiths.

d) Establish an authority with representation from every faith which will approve of all publicity material of every faith.

e) Review the teaching methods of schools and ensure that adequate respect for all faiths is imparted to the children. Errant schools will be derecognized.

f) Ban Prayer sessions in school and instead only have session for singing patriotic songs.

I dont think anything specific needs to be done for Hinduism, but in case member so desires, i would only state that the process of building an "inclusive hindusim" which is already in vogue be given more fillip and be speedened up.
 
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