Re-energising the Kanchi mutt

[suvarchas]

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wow .. bala ... r u sure ? an acharya has to live luxuriousluy to raise the standard of living of others ..? try telling that to mahaperiyavaa ... and the bs about indian toilets .. it is going to be true for the "namesake" brahmins who are not even used to doing regular thoppukaranams ... sick people aside , this attitude of living away from wht sri sankara lived like is not wht mahaperiyavaa would be ok with , period .... besides there are also mettur and kuvalaikkal swamigal , they walk everywhere too ... people are going to make comparisons on wht they see in the mutt ... they expect the acharyas to do things the way mahaperiyavaa would ,,,,

i hope if suvarchas can throw more light here and enlighten us more ..

I perfectly understand your concern.Let me try to answer within my capacity.
1.Meetur and Kuvallakal svamigal are travelling by foot.But the difference between them and Acharyas are that they are ordinary sanyasis and Acharyas were perceived to have security threat and till 1981 or 82 H.H.Jayendra svami was travelling by foot when MGR govt and Police told about the security threat and requested him to go by vehicle which even Maha svami permitted.

2.Mahasvamigal largely went by foot and it would be a blasphemy for me or anyone else to tell the present Acharya to do so.We also need to take into account the change in circumstances.The Mutt was largely confined to religious activities when Mahasvami was in the gaddi.There was no big threat to general public among the "not so devout going astray" as by and large people were religious .Now irreligious tendencies are on the rise and H.H. has to certainly prove that Mutt also has social responsibilities as our secular friends deride that the Mutt is more concerned abourt souls and rituals and not doing anything for the succour of the poor and down trodden.It is where HH.H.Jayendra sarasvathi svamiji's humanism comes to fore.He definitely thought that Hindus have to be unified and for that He has to reach out to people and not live in ivory tower.People who have seen Mahasvamiji and Jayendrasvamiji would vouchsafe that it is far more easier for people to meet the present Acharya as he is accessible.This is not to denigrate Mahasvamiji but only points to his temparament of reclusive nature where He would see only if he wished. He remained aloof and only earnest seekers can meet and seek his blessing after persistent efforts.His times were more spent in spiritual salvation as he felt drawing people who were above certain standards would help them in spiritual attainments.H.H.Jayendrasvami's feeling is that he needs to inculcate in people a basic god fearing and a faith in God before asking people to adopt a spititual life as the world is so materialistic.He cannot turn a blind eye to the change around him.lso the Mutt has to survive for so long to provide solace to generations.For that he has lowered his position to reach out to people and make them rally around the Mutt which makes people think he has gone astray which to say the least is audacious on our part as he does not stand to gain personally in any way
Lastly we also have to see whether we are living the way our forefathers lived.It is the necessity to recognise the change in times.Srimatam is a place not just for Brahmins,but Hindus as a whole

 

[s007bala]

re

suvarchas

I perfectly understand your concern.Let me try to answer within my capacity.

1.Meetur and Kuvallakal svamigal are travelling by foot.But the difference between them and Acharyas are that they are ordinary sanyasis and Acharyas were perceived to have security threat and till 1981 or 82 H.H.Jayendra svami was travelling by foot when MGR govt and Police told about the security threat and requested him to go by vehicle which even Maha svami permitted.

true.

2.Mahasvamigal largely went by foot and it would be a blasphemy for me or anyone else to tell the present Acharya to do so.We also need to take into account the change in circumstances.The Mutt was largely confined to religious activities when Mahasvami was in the gaddi.There was no big threat to general public among the "not so devout going astray" as by and large people were religious .

true.

Now irreligious tendencies are on the rise and H.H. has to certainly prove that Mutt also has social responsibilities as our secular friends deride that the Mutt is more concerned abourt souls and rituals and not doing anything for the succour of the poor and down trodden.It is where HH.H.Jayendra sarasvathi svamiji's humanism comes to fore.He definitely thought that Hindus have to be unified and for that He has to reach out to people and not live in ivory tower.People who have seen Mahasvamiji and Jayendrasvamiji would vouchsafe that it is far more easier for people to meet the present Acharya as he is accessible.

correct.

This is not to denigrate Mahasvamiji but only points to his temparament of reclusive nature where He would see only if he wished. He remained aloof and only earnest seekers can meet and seek his blessing after persistent efforts.His times were more spent in spiritual salvation as he felt drawing people who were above certain standards would help them in spiritual attainments.

true.

H.H.Jayendrasvami's feeling is that he needs to inculcate in people a basic god fearing and a faith in God before asking people to adopt a spititual life as the world is so materialistic.He cannot turn a blind eye to the change around him.lso the Mutt has to survive for so long to provide solace to generations.For that he has lowered his position to reach out to people and make them rally around the Mutt which makes people think he has gone astray which to say the least is audacious on our part as he does not stand to gain personally in any way

Lastly we also have to see whether we are living the way our forefathers lived.It is the necessity to recognise the change in times.Srimatam is a place not just for Brahmins,but Hindus as a whole

correct vv.in fact in early 90's hdg hh js as well as hdg vs stunned me by conversing directly with me unlike how hdg hh cs used to convey thru his seva dals.but,in my conversatiom hdg hh js was of the opinion,that so many people coming to mutt with worldly problems and we sanyasis do not have our own shanthi to do dhyanam.

so,i promptly thought,i shud stop bothering my gurus with my wordly issues and learn to deal them myself.but since i could not do that,instead sai baba drew me to him.but hdg hh vs for whom i did the pada namskaram in kurnool,when all three of them confluenced,joked in good banter about my not being a frequent visitor like before.now its more than 10 years ,since i had darshanam of their hh's.all their leelas.

legend:

hdg=his divine grace
hh=his holiness
cs=chandrasekerendra saraswathi
js=jayendrar saraswathi
vs=vijayendrar saraswathi

sb

 

[suvarchas]

suvarchas



true.



true.



correct.



true.



correct vv.in fact in early 90's hdg hh js as well as hdg vs stunned me by conversing directly with me unlike how hdg hh cs used to convey thru his seva dals.but,in my conversatiom hdg hh js was of the opinion,that so many people coming to mutt with worldly problems and we sanyasis do not have our own shanthi to do dhyanam.

so,i promptly thought,i shud stop bothering my gurus with my wordly issues and learn to deal them myself.but since i could not do that,instead sai baba drew me to him.but hdg hh vs for whom i did the pada namskaram in kurnool,when all three of them confluenced,joked in good banter about my not being a frequent visitor like before.now its more than 10 years ,since i had darshanam of their hh's.all their leelas.

legend:

hdg=his divine grace
hh=his holiness
cs=chandrasekerendra saraswathi
js=jayendrar saraswathi
vs=vijayendrar saraswathi

sb

Dear Members,
I would like to know if anybody would be interested to get involved with the Kanchi mutt as a volunteer or a close devotee to get to know more about the working of the Mutt and The Acharyas and dispel the wrong notions formed due to ignorance or the calumny campaign launched by media earlier.I shall ceratinly help them to have direct access to Their H.H.

 

[malgova.mango]

please visit www.mahaperiyavaa.wordpress.com

 

[rrvvvr]

Dear Members,
I would like to know if anybody would be interested to get involved with the Kanchi mutt as a volunteer or a close devotee to get to know more about the working of the Mutt and The Acharyas and dispel the wrong notions formed due to ignorance or the calumny campaign launched by media earlier.I shall ceratinly help them to have direct access to Their H.H.

Dear Suvarchas,

I would like to volunteer. But I stay in North India. Tell me how can I be of any help.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Originally Posted by suvarchas
Dear Members,
I would like to know if anybody would be interested to get involved with the Kanchi mutt as a volunteer or a close devotee to get to know more about the working of the Mutt and The Acharyas and dispel the wrong notions formed due to ignorance or the calumny campaign launched by media earlier.I shall ceratinly help them to have direct access to Their H.H.

There have been a number of posts after that. But please do remember that many members of the Brahmin community were involved in hurling accusations against Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal. It was painful to read.

One member of this forum who claims very close association with Kanchi Mutt had accused Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal of taking money from JJ. When I protested, he repeated the accusation. The administrators have removed the posts.

What I am trying to emphasize that we as Tamil Brahmins have to unite to see that a respected Acharya like Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal is not maligned by our own community. This should be done irrespective of the affiliation of the individual to Kanchi Mutt or Shringeri Mutt.

I am sure the Acharyas would be absolved of all charges. But efforts have to be made to unite the community behind this cause forgetting the differences between the Mutts and the differences between the followers of Paramacharya and Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal.

 

[s007bala]

re

There have been a number of posts after that. But please do remember that many members of the Brahmin community were involved in hurling accusations against Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal. It was painful to read.

One member of this forum who claims very close association with Kanchi Mutt had accused Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal of taking money from JJ. When I protested, he repeated the accusation. The administrators have removed the posts.

What I am trying to emphasize that we as Tamil Brahmins have to unite to see that a respected Acharya like Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal is not maligned by our own community. This should be done irrespective of the affiliation of the individual to Kanchi Mutt or Shringeri Mutt.

I am sure the Acharyas would be absolved of all charges. But efforts have to be made to unite the community behind this cause forgetting the differences between the Mutts and the differences between the followers of Paramacharya and Jayendra Saraswati Swamigal.

Good,i like this post.

sb

 

[suvarchas]

hope kanchi mutt gets realistic and comes forward with their correct dates and history first..adi shankara founded the mutts in 800AD..not in some BC times as kanchi mutt claims...and adi shankara founded only 4 mutts for 4 regions, no kanchi mutt in the pic...any clarifications?

Here we go again contradicting traditional history based on western scholars and people like Nehru.
My posers
1.Admitting that Adishankara established four mutts,the chronology of the "Palindrome" certified and acknowledged Mutts,should atleast tally with minor variations.The irony is the socalled Dakshinamnaya Mutt claims to be in A.D and other mutts claim to be In B.C.
2.The lineage of the other Mutts exceed 70 to 140 or so in Dwaraka and Puri.Here it is only 36
3.As per legend Adsishankara established the southern mutt in the confluence of Thunga and Bhadra.The present Mutt is on the banks of Thunga
4.While the dakshinamnaya theory itself in question,there is a revealation about that.
While Dasanami sanyasis are ordained to visit the Chardhams like Badrinath,Jagannath,Ramnath and Somnath where Shankara should have established Mutts,the other three still are in the same places and the southern Mutt could not been in interior.So this theory itself does not hold water
5.We need to develop of spirit of enquiry,but that does not mean questioning the traditions in an unfounded manner

 

[s007bala]

re

Here we go again contradicting traditional history based on western scholars and people like Nehru.
My posers
1.Admitting that Adishankara established four mutts,the chronology of the "Palindrome" certified and acknowledged Mutts,should atleast tally with minor variations.The irony is the socalled Dakshinamnaya Mutt claims to be in A.D and other mutts claim to be In B.C.
2.The lineage of the other Mutts exceed 70 to 140 or so in Dwaraka and Puri.Here it is only 36
3.As per legend Adsishankara established the southern mutt in the confluence of Thunga and Bhadra.The present Mutt is on the banks of Thunga
4.While the dakshinamnaya theory itself in question,there is a revealation about that.
While Dasanami sanyasis are ordained to visit the Chardhams like Badrinath,Jagannath,Ramnath and Somnath where Shankara should have established Mutts,the other three still are in the same places and the southern Mutt could not been in interior.So this theory itself does not hold water
5.We need to develop of spirit of enquiry,but that does not mean questioning the traditions in an unfounded manner

what did chacha nehru write?

adi-sankara attained samadhi.thoonilum irruppar thurumbillum iruppar.200 years back history itself has been manipulated by east india company and prior to that for 800 years islamic mughals altered and dis-shaped our temples.if at all any relic is found,scholars will squabble amongst themselves.so,its better to listen to sampradayic ishta guru and leave all this dating alone.how does it help in anyway to continue a controversy?we all witnessed mahaswamigal=he is final authority,lets believe his bashyam.

sb

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Please do not start the age old controversy of the Mutts. This will not help us in any way. Books have been written about this. Purely an academic discussion which may boost the Ego of individuals, but does not help the community or the common cause.

So let sleeping dogs lie.

Thank you.

 

[suvarchas]

Dear Suvarchas,

I would like to volunteer. But I stay in North India. Tell me how can I be of any help.

you can contact me whenever you are in Chennai.I shall put you on to the right person who can coordinate with you in the Mutt affairs.My contact No:9884713592

 

[suvarchas]

Please do not start the age old controversy of the Mutts. This will not help us in any way. Books have been written about this. Purely an academic discussion which may boost the Ego of individuals, but does not help the community or the common cause.

So let sleeping dogs lie.

Thank you.

I appreciate your view point.I just wanted to point out that there are several unresolved mysteries in Shankara's date which no one can point out with certainty.But the traditional views of all Mutt including Sringeri are only same about him being born in B.C. till the beginning of 20th Century when the Sringeri Mutt changed its views to A.D.

It is ideal if we just try to carry on in a concerted way and not raise controversies

 

[sivabgs]

The Traditional age of Sri Sankarabhagavatpada

Suvarchas, I agree with u

1.In the Book "A history of Vijayanagar- The Never to be forgotten empire" (1909), the author B.Suryanarayana Row published the list of Acharyas of the Sringeri matha from Adishankara.

The author says "this list is copied from the manuscript which was in the pujabox of Sri Narasimhabharathi IV. Acc. to t and comes therefore from the best source. According to this list the date of Sri Shankarabhagavatpada was 44BC Saka Vikramarka 14 (not 788AD). Even erudite scholars like Dr.A.K.Shastri failed to note this important record which had been carefully preserved by the Acharyas of the Matha.

2. A Kaditha of 19th century (Kd.57, No.1) of the Sringeri matha mentions Vikramasakha 75 as the date of incarnation of Sri Sankara.(History of Sringeri Dr.A.K.Shastri page 17)

3.The famous Tiruvanaika Tatanka Pratishta court case documents, Guruvamsa Kavya of Sringeri matha and the books written by devotees of the Matha like J.V.Rajagopala Sharma came out with various dates.

 

[KRS]

Again, I agree with Sri Nacchinarkiniyan ji's post above. In this case, let the sleeoing dogs lie. No amount of 'research' by anyone will resolve this issue.

What we have are two esteemed Shankara Muths in the South. Both have huge following, sometimes sharing the devotees. Why then raise an issue that has been talked about, written about, without any resolution for a long time?

Regards,
KRS

 

[happyhindu]

Suvarchas, I agree with u

1.In the Book "A history of Vijayanagar- The Never to be forgotten empire" (1909), the author B.Suryanarayana Row published the list of Acharyas of the Sringeri matha from Adishankara.

The author says "this list is copied from the manuscript which was in the pujabox of Sri Narasimhabharathi IV. Acc. to t and comes therefore from the best source. According to this list the date of Sri Shankarabhagavatpada was 44BC Saka Vikramarka 14 (not 788AD). Even erudite scholars like Dr.A.K.Shastri failed to note this important record which had been carefully preserved by the Acharyas of the Matha.

2. A Kaditha of 19th century (Kd.57, No.1) of the Sringeri matha mentions Vikramasakha 75 as the date of incarnation of Sri Sankara.(History of Sringeri Dr.A.K.Shastri page 17)

3.The famous Tiruvanaika Tatanka Pratishta court case documents, Guruvamsa Kavya of Sringeri matha and the books written by devotees of the Matha like J.V.Rajagopala Sharma came out with various dates.

wow!! thanks for this sivabgs. this sort of back dates everything. yes 44bc is also very much acceptable (am looking at it from the view point of influx and social segregation post-buddhist times plus from other points of view)..as written above i think the confusion came up because of various dates as mentioned in point 3.

thanks again.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I am putting on my hat as a Moderator. Discussions regarding Adi Sankara's date of birth and the origin of the mutts are are not relevant to the topic of "Re-energising the Kanchi mutt".

In any other case I would have suggested opening a separate thread. But these two issues have been discussed for more than a hundred years with no positive outcome. They have only divided the Brahmin community.

So please Cease and Desist.

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

i was wondering if i happened to miss all of the detailed explanations the two acharyas might have given to us , lay public, in the form of organised upanyasas on all the works of the acharyas right from the adi acharya , like vivekachudamani , upadesa sahasri ? has the mutt stored such stuff free on the net too ?

 

[rrvvvr]

Thread has deviated

After a long silence I am forced to comment that the thread has deviated from its original course and sucked in some unwanted debate of sorts. The real issue is how to bring back the lost glory of the kanchi mutt. I stay outside TN ;and on a recent visit to TN I found that most of the places have removed the photos of Jayendrar and Vijayendrar. It appears that a number of Brahmins have distanced themselves from the acharyas and mutt. The real issue is how to stop this and demonstrate to the powers that humiliated the mutt, the resolve of its followers. Since the issue of his arrest a few years ago, the acharya has chosen to maintain a stoic silence on all issues. There is a subtle message in this. What could that be? Any guesses or explanations? Your views are welcome.

 

[adiyean]

Thread has deviated

I agree with rrvvvr. thread is deviated.
Kanchi mutt is a great institution functiong more than 1000 years- An organisation found and united for the sake of preserving the Sanatana Dharma.
Mutt is much above Acharyals- (Mutt had many such in the Past).
In order to revive and re-energise a new Acharyal has to be elected. I believe firmly.
Humbly I would like to say that I don't have the slightest insolence against the present Acharyals.

We should work in that direction - This will certainly remove the long time pain in the hearts of lakhs of followers of the mutt including myself.

** Note : If this post is repeated kindly forgive me

 

[KRS]

There is no need to 'elect' any new Acharyals. Current Acharyals were blessed and selected by none other than the Maha Periaval.

In my opinion, no special effort to 're-energize' the mutt is required. It is a centuries old institution and as long as it serves the interests of Jagat, it will exist.

Mutts have normal ebb and flow like all institutions. I think that the Kanchi Mutt is no exception. If some in the TB community shun the institution, it is their loss. I would not generalize that a large number of TBs are doing so.

Regards,
KRS

 

[adiyean]

Respected Sri KRS ji,
Thanks for your reply.
I agree that "Current Acharyals were blessed and selected by none other than the Maha Periaval."
But even Ram - Vishnu had to displace Sita for the sake of Rajya Paripalana though she was innocent.
Mutt will exist but many people (as far as i know) will miss the active involvement with mutt and its extended influence on their life. I hope this is also important. Otherwise there is no needfor any re-energise/revive effort- as It is a centuries old institution and as long as it serves the interests of Jagat, it will exist.
Regards

 

[sapr333]

There is no need to 'elect' any new Acharyals.

KRS

The issue here is, who has to be given the voting rights to elect an Acharyal.. For public administration, we give rights to every one, but denitely not those below age 21.. For a co-operative society election, we dont give voting rights based on geography, but, only to those members of the particular society..

I dont discount the electing procedure.. But then ,out here we are talking about choosing a religious leader...Once cannot give voting rights to a communist/aetheist, to choose an Acharyal.. So, who n all,should be given the voting rights, in choosing a spiritual leader?

I would love to hear from the one, who raised this question....

 

[adiyean]

Thanks Sapr333

Dear Sapr333,
Thanks for your comments-You can include DKs & DMKs in addition to communists.

Any how thanks for pointing out the diff between Selection and Election.

I don't know the protocol of the mutt exactly. Normally I know it is the Senior & presiding Acharyal who selects the successor. But I heard (not very sure- as I am not very literate in these aspects like many in this forum) that in some occasions - the learned core group of the mutt selected/elected Acharyals during the crisis of Senior's sudden demise without selecting the successor earlier.
Even the present Acharyals can select a new Acharyal.
Here Again I don't have the slightest insolence against the present Acharyals.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sri Adiyean -ji,

Welcome back I think we are meeting after more than a year..

Regarding Jayendra Swami, from what i see and hear so far, swamiji is honest, upright, forthright and frank (sometimes too frank). Therefore swamiji has troubles from two quarters:

[the following is based purely on hearsay, please exercise your own discretion]

a) Troubles from within:

There was talk created that swamiji was doing things for shudras, and that was not dharmic. There was a section of orthodoxy that did not like swamiji talking to dalits and reaching out to them. One previous member on this forum also once passed comments which meant to mean that Jayendra swami's arrest happened because he did things that was not dharmic (or things that were not of social order).

b) Troubles from outside:

Swamiji boldly involved in issues of political and social nature. In the past, swamiji was involved in the ramjanma bhoomi issue. The recent talk with a cardinal about conversions is another involvment. Naturally, there are people with vested interests who do not like him because of his involvement. It is also possible that some in the kazhagams do not like him because swamiji reaches out to people easily.

People are trying to implicate swamiji falsely to stop his involvment in various issues.

There are countless people who admire him very much (me too). Let us say there is a 'larger destiny'. Silence (as mentioned by sri rrvvrr) can mean so many things. From our end, all of us can pray for swamiji. Every small prayer makes a difference.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

There are certain things in life that one must take for as granted. Like the Sun will come up in the east and set in the west. Like one's parents will always love one. Like a guru who was selected by Maha Periava in the tradition of a grand philosophical tradition of Adi Shankara will not even go near where there is any controversy, let alone ordering something akin to a mafia chieftan.

No, I do not believe in these stories, which portray a child like (not to be confused with childish) god person as a criminal to diminish not only him but a whole set of folks.

I condemn all those who have the temerity to think otherwise, without any proof. Because we are condemning our own selves in the process.

Regards,
KRS