Raavanan

[amala]

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I think the point here is that Ravana was not ALL bad. Just like Rama was not ALL good, although being a "God", I'd have to say the standards should be higher for Rama .

History/stories etc are always written by the victors, no? Same could be said of the Ramayan. I'm not defending Ravana's abduction of Sita. I'm merely saying that Ravana had his good sides, which unfortunately in the Rama-centric stories hardly ever get highlighted. Perhaps protraying Ravana as all evil has its advantages for certain sections of society.

 

[Nara]

....So what if he abducted someonelses wife?

Renu, Someone else's wife is not the important part, what is important is she was unwilling.

You say Rama and Laskhmana disfigured Surpanaka. Why was Sita punished for it? What did Sita do? If anything Sita was about to be fatally attacked by Surpanaka.

I don't see any divinity in the story of Ramayanam, all I see is a story that glorifies male domination as dharma. At the end of the war when Rama refused her, Sita should have dumped Rama and ran away with Mandodhari and lived happily ever after. Why should either of them suffer a criminal bully or an uptight and rigid authoritarian,

I give you a funny, poignant, and immensely intriguing retelling of Sita's story here.

Cheers!

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

Renuka ji
well done. It is a very nice work on lord siva with meaning also. thanks for bringing it TBC.
what so ever ravana also born to brahmin is in`t it.

Ananth

i have copied the text thanks

 

[nachi naga]

ravanan was a tamizh brahmin,or maybe sinhalese brahmin.

lord shiva is known to give or grant boons easily,becoz he gets pleased easily.lord shiva worsipper attain everything very easily in life,including moksham.

ravanan abducting mother sita is basically,a shaivaite abducting sita against her will.first offence is another man wife.secondly against the woman wish,against her consent.thirdly sita and rama are vaishnavas,so on all three accounts ravanan betrayed shaivaites.in fact ravanan was destined to be born as shaivaite,so that vaishanava could kill him.though i personally feel,ravanan was extremely lucky to have been slayed by lord rama,who is a avataram of lord vishnu.

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Dear Renukakarthikeyan
I understand what you say as follows. Ravanan is as much a nice or a bad guy as Rama is.Then why discredit him and glorify Rama? Paint them both with the same brush. Correct? If so read on. If not skip.
This has been attempted earlier and successfully also. R.S. Manohar had a hit (drama) Lankeswaran Remember? Here he was Lakeswaran and not Ravanan slightly elevated to Iswar level. He is the hero and no blemish of any sort is cast upon him OK

According to Hindu establishment & Belief Rama is one of the incarnation of Vishnu the supreme. This is the basic belief & foundation on which there may (will) not be any compromise from any quarters Supreme is ultimate ஒப்பாரும் இல்லை மிக்காரும் இல்லை.
Even if you raise Ravan to Lankeswar level he will be a lesser God only.

Your character analysis are excellent & presentation very good.This will definitely fetch you academic laurels . Will your dream slogan Jai Ravanji ki jai become a reality? Jai Ram Ki Jai is established for ages. Jai Ravan Ki Jai may be a far fetched dream. Jambu:brick:

 

[sapthajihva]

Ravana had many apsaras imprisoned in his harem; so the kidnapping is not only of Sita.

Maybe Kalanemi, Dhundhubi and Simhika could also be glorified in this Yuga... :noidea:

Ravana was, no doubt, a great warrior and a scholar, and a person with great tejas; no ordinary man could have all the 14 lokas under one's control, like Ravana. But there is a flip side too. For all his tejas, he did not abide by the Dharmashasthras. That is the whole point. So while we have to accept that Ravana had good points, it is not something that is to be gloated or glossed over.

Whatever goodness Ravana had, Rama had more of it... and he always abided by Dharmam. The worth of a person's life is measured by the extent of his adherence to the shasthras.

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

நமஸ்தே,
தங்கள் கூற்று உண்மையே ! ஆனாலும் இராவணன் இராமனைப்போல் மனைவி மீது சந்தேகம் கொண்டு அக்னிப்ரவேசம் செய்ய வைக்க வில்லை. மேலும், அயோத்தியிலுள்ள ஒரு சலவைக்கரனின் ஒரு சொல்லுக்காக மீண்டும் சிதையை கானகத்திற்கு அனுப்பி ஒரு சந்தேககே கணவனாக வாழவில்லை. இதில் இராவணன் ராமனைவிட உயர்ந்தவனாக கருதப்படுகிறான் என்பது அடியேனின் எண்ணம்.

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

நமஸ்தே,
தங்கள் கூற்று உண்மையே ! ஆனாலும் இராவணன் இராமனைப்போல் மனைவி மீது சந்தேகம் கொண்டு அக்னிப்ரவேசம் செய்ய வைக்க வில்லை. மேலும், அயோத்தியிலுள்ள ஒரு சலவைக்கரனின் ஒரு சொல்லுக்காக மீண்டும் சிதையை கானகத்திற்கு அனுப்பி ஒரு சந்தேக கணவனாக வாழவில்லை. இதில் இராவணன் ராமனைவிட உயர்ந்தவனாக கருதப்படுகிறான் என்பது அடியேனின் எண்ணம்

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

நமஸ்தே,
தங்கள் கூற்று உண்மையே ! ஆனாலும் இராவணன் இராமனைப்போல் மனைவி மீது சந்தேகம் கொண்டு அக்னிப்ரவேசம் செய்ய வைக்க வில்லை. மேலும், அயோத்தியிலுள்ள ஒரு சலவைக்கரனின் ஒரு சொல்லுக்காக மீண்டும் சிதையை கானகத்திற்கு அனுப்பி ஒரு சந்தேக கணவனாக வாழவில்லை. இதில் இராவணன் ராமனைவிட உயர்ந்தவனாக கருதப்படுகிறான் என்பது அடியேனின் எண்ணம்

 

[S.Chandrasekaran]

நமஸ்தே,
தங்கள் கூற்று உண்மையே ! ஆனாலும் இராவணன் இராமனைப்போல் மனைவி மீது சந்தேகம் கொண்டு அக்னிப்ரவேசம் செய்ய வைக்க வில்லை. மேலும், அயோத்தியிலுள்ள ஒரு சலவைக்கரனின் ஒரு சொல்லுக்காக மீண்டும் சிதையை கானகத்திற்கு அனுப்பி ஒரு சந்தேக கணவனாக வாழவில்லை. இதில் இராவணன் ராமனைவிட உயர்ந்தவனாக கருதப்படுகிறான் என்பது அடியேனின் எண்ணம்

 

[nachi naga]

renu

They could have just stopped Surphanaka physically instead of disfiguring a woman..which is so Adharmic and what about the episode where Rama kills Vaali from the back...Againts Kshatriya Dharmic code...So why should Ravana alone follow any Dharmic code of conduct?

surpanaka being disfigured is actually bringing her back to asurani looking form,which was how she looked,bcoz she disguises herself artificially,not her natural form,like how women beautify themselves for others to look,that is why islam puts burqha for women,so that no man should have sexual feelings generated by looks.burqha is a tool,just as clothes cover us human body now.if naked all men when they look at women,will have an erection promptly,even with his own mother,sister..etc.

siddhantha has already given an explanation in the forum,vali being born as the hunter,who shots the arrow,for lord krishna,to shed his body,from bhu-loka.in lord vishnus eight avataram as lord krishna.

 

[nachi naga]

நமஸ்தே,
தங்கள் கூற்று உண்மையே ! ஆனாலும் இராவணன் இராமனைப்போல் மனைவி மீது சந்தேகம் கொண்டு அக்னிப்ரவேசம் செய்ய வைக்க வில்லை. மேலும், அயோத்தியிலுள்ள ஒரு சலவைக்கரனின் ஒரு சொல்லுக்காக மீண்டும் சிதையை கானகத்திற்கு அனுப்பி ஒரு சந்தேககே கணவனாக வாழவில்லை. இதில் இராவணன் ராமனைவிட உயர்ந்தவனாக கருதப்படுகிறான் என்பது அடியேனின் எண்ணம்.

sc

இராவணன் மற்ற ஒரு மனிதனின் மனைவி மலே அசை பட்டன் ஆடு தவறு .ஏக பத்னி அவதாரம் ராமர் .அவருக்கு வேறு பத்னி கிடையாது வரலாறு சொல்கிறது .சண்டைய்கம் என்பது எல்லா உயிர் எண்ணத்திற்கு வரும் .இடு இயல்பாக வரும் .சிட தேவி மீது இந்த சந்தய்கதை நீக்க சையட காரியம்

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukakarthikeyan
I understand what you say as follows. Ravanan is as much a nice or a bad guy as Rama is.Then why discredit him and glorify Rama? Paint them both with the same brush. Correct? If so read on. If not skip.
This has been attempted earlier and successfully also. R.S. Manohar had a hit (drama) Lankeswaran Remember? Here he was Lakeswaran and not Ravanan slightly elevated to Iswar level. He is the hero and no blemish of any sort is cast upon him OK

According to Hindu establishment & Belief Rama is one of the incarnation of Vishnu the supreme. This is the basic belief & foundation on which there may (will) not be any compromise from any quarters Supreme is ultimate ஒப்பாரும் இல்லை மிக்காரும் இல்லை.
Even if you raise Ravan to Lankeswar level he will be a lesser God only.whom God

Your character analysis are excellent & presentation very good.This will definitely fetch you academic laurels . Will your dream slogan Jai Ravanji ki jai become a reality? Jai Ram Ki Jai is established for ages. Jai Ravan Ki Jai may be a far fetched dream. Jambu:brick:

Dear sir...

I am just trying to see Rama as Paramaatma and Ravana as Jeevataama whom God loved so dearly..thats all...

I can also say Sri Jambunatha Ki Jai...why not...
I dont want to limit myself to Ravana only...

Its not wrong to praise anyone as God is present in each and everyone of us...and there is no such thing as lesser God..
If something contains God..its Full only ..otherwise Om Purnamadah Purnamidam mantra will have no meaning...

dear sir..how can I get academic laurels when all i regurgitate from my cerebral cortex is just loaned/borrowed knowledge..Its no original thought....even learning how to read and write is borrowed knowledege only..i did not coin alphabets...

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Dear Renukakarthikeyan I have heard this Jeevathama seeking union with Paramathama in a different Avathra . Gopikas Radhas relationship with Krishna. It was all love may be even sensual. Finer refined emotions. Her it seems to be hatred & revenge much cruder, the emotions we normally try to avoid. Though my understanding of your postings were distorted and wrong as you have pointed out now you have read my posting fully not skipping ( as suggested in my post) & tried to explain your position is much appreciated Your quest for knowledge (even borrowed as you claim) is fantastic ! Continue with your endeavor. Jambu

P.S. Would you consider avoiding the slogan Jambunathki Jai It is like Opium Gets into your system Make you feel bigger than what you are really முகஸ்துதி is dangerous.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukakarthikeyan I have heard this Jeevathama seeking union with Paramathama in a different Avathra . Gopikas Radhas relationship with Krishna. It was all love may be even sensual. Finer refined emotions. Her it seems to be hatred & revenge much cruder, the emotions we normally try to avoid. Though my understanding of your postings were distorted and wrong as you have pointed out now you have read my posting fully not skipping ( as suggested in my post) & tried to explain your position is much appreciated Your quest for knowledge (even borrowed as you claim) is fantastic ! Continue with your endeavor. Jambu

P.S. Would you consider avoiding the slogan Jambunathki Jai It is like Opium Gets into your system Make you feel bigger than what you are really முகஸ்துதி is dangerous.

Dear sir...

See even Yudhishthira could not understand why after Sishupala(the same person as Ravana) was beheaded by the Sudharshan Cakra a light came out of him and merged into Lord Krishna..Lord Krishna just kind off gave Yudhisthira a non commital answer saying that Sishupala had been contemplating on Him all the while though in a negative manner..we all know the real reason was Jaya(a.k.a Hiranyakashipu,Ravana,Sishupala) had attained his previous state and attained Sayugjya....

Rama and Ravana battle just appears like revenge,hatred..bloodshed etc..Was it really like that for Lord Rama or even Ravana...
I always had a doubt in my mind..I have this lingering feeling that Ravana actually knew his purpose of birth..
thats the reason why i had put the Shiva Tandava Stotram in this thread in the first place...

Drusha dwichi thra thalpayor bhujanga moukthika srajo,
Garishta rathna loshtayo suhrudhwi paksha pakshayo,
Trunara vinda chakshusho praja mahee mahendrayo,
Samapravarthika kadha sadashivam bhajamyaham. 12

Kada nilampa nirjaree nikunja kotare vasan,
Vimuktha durmathee sada sirasthanjaleem vahan,
Vilola lola lochano lalama bhala lagnaka,
Shivethi manthamucharan kada sukhee bhavamyaham. 13


the above two stanzas appears like an internal impatient cry for liberation..Why? If a person is so intoxicated with pride and power would he cry out for liberation?
Does it not ring a bell somewhere...

Rama and Ravana battle might appear like a "star wars" episode..
But Lord Rama was an avatar..to Him there is no battle or war..
Its just His Leela..to liberate Ravana and indirectly make this whole role play a lesson to mankind...thats the outer covering of Ramayana..the inner core is just the Divine Love of a Jeevaatma and Paramaatma..

Well coming to Gopikas..sensual is not the word..its total surrender..
Sensual comes with attachments and gunas..
they were beyond that..

In a previous yuga they(Gopikas) were rishis who had Darshan with God.
In Treta yuga they were the Vanaras who had Sambhashan with God..and finally in Dwapara yuga they had Sparshan with God...
Sparshan of God liberates a person...

The Gopika--Krishna relationship is the ultimate union of Jeevaatma and Paramaatma..Its like sugar being mix in the water and Jeeva being the sugar and Paramaatma being the water..uniform sweetness beyond words to describe...but not Sensual...

 

[nachi naga]

Dear sir...

I am just trying to see Rama as Paramaatma and Ravana as Jeevataama whom God loved so dearly..thats all...

I can also say Sri Jambunatha Ki Jai...why not...
I dont want to limit myself to Ravana only...

Its not wrong to praise anyone as God is present in each and everyone of us...and there is no such thing as lesser God..
If something contains God..its Full only ..otherwise Om Purnamadah Purnamidam mantra will have no meaning...

dear sir..how can I get academic laurels when all i regurgitate from my cerebral cortex is just loaned/borrowed knowledge..Its no original thought....even learning how to read and write is borrowed knowledege only..i did not coin alphabets...

renu

omg,what a powerful post,pregnant with divine meanings.

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Renukakarthikeyan I have heard this Jeevathama seeking union with Paramathama in a different Avathra . Gopikas Radhas relationship with Krishna. It was all love may be even sensual. Finer refined emotions. Her it seems to be hatred & revenge much cruder, the emotions we normally try to avoid. Though my understanding of your postings were distorted and wrong as you have pointed out now you have read my posting fully not skipping ( as suggested in my post) & tried to explain your position is much appreciated Your quest for knowledge (even borrowed as you claim) is fantastic ! Continue with your endeavor. Jambu

P.S. Would you consider avoiding the slogan Jambunathki Jai It is like Opium Gets into your system Make you feel bigger than what you are really முகஸ்துதி is dangerous.

tnj

the luckiest person is lil dhanista to have an awesome grandpa like you.yes granpis are a must for children,you simply rock sir:nod:

 

[renuka]

renu

omg,what a powerful post,pregnant with divine meanings.

Dear nachi...

I guess being in this forum itself brings out the best in me...thank you for your comment...

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Amazing ! I never thought that my posting Ravanna in this forum orginally a Walt Disney affair to keep Dhanishta engaged could grow into this level of intellectual boxing among this learned audience! மனம் கேக்குதே more Jambu :boxing: Keep it up

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

I remember in a medical magazine an article by a psychiatrist"s explanation of the mutual aggressive and violent behaviors of a married couple who had consulted him for help He explained " You hit hard whom you love most" called it "Love Hate" situation. Emotion is love expression is Hate. May be Ravana & Rama are in a similar situation Jambu :nod:

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

tnj


the luckiest person is lil dhanista to have an awesome grandpa like you.yes granpis are a must for children,you simply rock sir:nod:

Dear Nachi Naga

Dhanishta seems to have got your attention and love easily without any conscious efforts on her part except probably for her innocent curiosity to learn and childish questions and comments put to me. Do I have any role or deserve any credit for this? Jambu :drum:

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Dear sir...

I am just trying to see Rama as Paramaatma and Ravana as Jeevataama whom God loved so dearly..thats all...

I can also say Sri Jambunatha Ki Jai...why not...
I dont want to limit myself to Ravana only...

Its not wrong to praise anyone as God is present in each and everyone of us...and there is no such thing as lesser God..
If something contains God..its Full only ..otherwise Om Purnamadah Purnamidam mantra will have no meaning...

dear sir..how can I get academic laurels when all i regurgitate from my cerebral cortex is just loaned/borrowed knowledge..Its no original thought....even learning how to read and write is borrowed knowledege only..i did not coin alphabets...

Dear you are a mine of Information & Knowledge This should reach a bigger audience Should spread like caner (Dr. Shantha will not like this expression) How do you do that ? Simple I again repeat பாட்டி சொன்னாபுரியும் Pandit சொன்னா confuse ஆகும் . Let the பாட்டி in you take விஸ்வருபம். Pandit in you take வாமனா அவதாரம் Choice is yours . Be blessed Jambu

 

[renuka]

Dear you are a mine of Information & Knowledge This should reach a bigger audience Should spread like caner (Dr. Shantha will not like this expression) How do you do that ? Simple I again repeat பாட்டி சொன்னாபுரியும் Pandit சொன்னா confuse ஆகும் . Let the பாட்டி in you take விஸ்வருபம். Pandit in you take வாமனா அவதாரம் Choice is yours . Be blessed Jambu

Dear sir...

No I shouldnt spread like malignant cells...I have been doing daily desloughing and debridement for a Cancer Breast patient..I can see how malignancy hurts..

May be spreading should be like a rose that speaks silently in the language of fragrance(Sathya Sai Baba)..

Ok..I will take your advise Yada Yada I will let Grandma in me take Vishvaroopam and Tada Tada let the Pandit in me take Vaamana avataram...

But there again..Vishwaroopam was static..did not move ..stood in one place..

Vaamana was kinetic...2 steps itself covered the 3 worlds.3rd step had to be Emperor Bali's head...If only Bali was also a Dashmukha and had ten heads... Vaamana could have done a Tandava on his ten heads...So Pandit still wins....

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

Dear sir...

No I shouldnt spread like malignant cells...I have been doing daily desloughing and debridement for a Cancer Breast patient..I can see how malignancy hurts..

May be spreading should be like a rose that speaks silently in the language of fragrance(Sathya Sai Baba)..

Ok..I will take your advise Yada Yada I will let Grandma in me take Vishvaroopam and Tada Tada let the Pandit in me take Vaamana avataram...

But there again..Vishwaroopam was static..did not move ..stood in one place..

Vaamana was kinetic...2 steps itself covered the 3 worlds.3rd step had to be Emperor Bali's head...If only Bali was also a Dashmukha and had ten heads... Vaamana could have done a Tandava on his ten heads...So Pandit still wins....

Dear
you are seeing or would like to see Ravan even in Balis head, Like Prhalad seeing Vishnu(தூணிலும் இருப்பார் துரும்பிலும் இருப்பார்) I think I should suggest the forum to confer a suitable title upon you like Ravanpremi How do you like it ? Jambu:clap2:

 

[renuka]

Dear
you are seeing or would like to see Ravan even in Balis head, Like Prhalad seeing Vishnu(தூணிலும் இருப்பார் துரும்பிலும் இருப்பார்) I think I should suggest the forum to confer a suitable title upon you like Ravanpremi How do you like it ? Jambu:clap2:

Raavanpremi...literally means Raavan..to cry/wail
Premi..love..so technically it means One who loves to cry...
Well..i dont like to cry actually....

Paulasyapremi..would be a better title..Paulasya(son of Pulasya)..
Premi..Love..One who is fond of the son of Pulasya..

So who is going to confer this title to me?
I am honoured...