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Procedures of praying in Temples

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S

somanathan Iyer

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Hi all,

I would like to get the following doubts clarified.

We all know that Lord Ganesa is accorded the first place in our culture before starting any venture.

When we visit temples of other than Ganesa, and if there is a Ganesa Sannidhanam there, is it not mandatory on our part to offer first prayers to Lord Ganesa and then for others?

The other one is why should we wash our feet after offering prayers at Navagraha Sannidhanam? They are kept in temples because they are also considered Gods. Then why this culture of washing feet after visiting them?

Now this question is to Mr. Praveen.

Is there any possibility for moving old posts to new threads for the benefit of readers?
 
Dear S. Iyer,

There are thousands of posts in this forum and Sri. Praveen will have a tough job moving the earlier posts, I guess.

If you are talking about your poems, you can post again in the new thread. That should be fine!

Best wishes,
Raji Ram
 
somanathan Iyer said:
Hi all,

I would like to get the following doubts clarified.

We all know that Lord Ganesa is accorded the first place in our culture before starting any venture.

When we visit temples of other than Ganesa, and if there is a Ganesa Sannidhanam there, is it not mandatory on our part to offer first prayers to Lord Ganesa and then for others?

The other one is why should we wash our feet after offering prayers at Navagraha Sannidhanam? They are kept in temples because they are also considered Gods. Then why this culture of washing feet after visiting them?

Now this question is to Mr. Praveen.

Is there any possibility for moving old posts to new threads for the benefit of readers?
Click to expand...

Shri Somanathan Iyer,

The idol of Ganesa is installed in different locations with respect to the main "sannidhi" in different temples. In some, you will find a Ganesa sannidhi just to the side of the main (outer) entrance to the main deity's sannidhi; then it is customary, and the local people who are knowledgeable will tell you, if you request guidance, that first you should worship Ganesa, do a circumambulation (pradakshinam) of the outer praakaaram which will cover the Ganesa temple also and then only enter the main temple.

In some temples the Ganesa idol may be installed in some innocuous corner. In that case it is not customary to go in search of that corner first, worship Ganesa and then only worship at other sannidhis.

Anyway, the condition today is that even brahmins do not have any clear idea of how to worship in a temple. I have seen many people, young and old, male and female, fashionable and traditional (orthodox-) looking, taking the temple just like a zoo - whichever cage attracts them they go their whether it is pradakshinam or apradakshinam :)

And now, Ganapati is a late entrant into our hindu pantheon. Vinayaka or vighneswara was considered as a "Dushta graha" or evil planet which will create obstacles to your success, if it is not pleased before you embark on any expedition or work of some importance. Only in course of time, this evil entity has been "sanitized" by means of various Puranic stories and all, into a God worthy of first reverence.

"washing our feet after offering prayers at Navagraha Sannidhanam" is news to me. According to traditional belief learnt by me, one can wash one's feet after temple worship only after he/she has rested on floor or a chair for some time, after returning home from temple, failing which the washing of feet will cause the loss of all the merit (puNyam) gained by the temple visit. In view of the conditions in our country, and the unhygienic roads, it is customary for orthodox people to rest their seat (!) on the edge of the mandapam while coming out of the temple as a shortcut for the above; this will enable them to wash their feet before entering their house.
 
Ok this may be a silly question but I've always wondered nevertheless. Why do people do a sort of sit up like thing when praying to Ganesha while pulling their ears and hitting their temples? head? with their knuckles? Is this just a Tamil thing or do other Indians do this? Do they do this in the north as well?

Thanks
 
amala,

we call in thOppu karaNam in tamil. :)

when i was young, if had to be punished, the most common form, apart from the cane, was 50 times thOppu karaNam, non stop, in quick succession - enough to put you out of breath. great abs exercise incidentally.

it is as much a sign of veneration cum penance, as punishment particularly when meted out to sub teen boys of tamil nadu. have not seen too
many girls do this.

i suggest, you try it once, for the heck of it, taking care not to knot or lock your knees. as i said, apart from the religiosity, it is great for
stomach muscles and a flat belly.

which is why chubby folks with pot bellies will find it difficult to go through the whole process - holding your hands to the ears, crosswise or
straight, bending fully and the knucles to touch the knee caps. they usually topple forwards and fall down. i have to accept, that no matter who does it, it does not look elegant. but ganesha is supposed to be satisfied.

good fun :)

i would have thought that tamils in malaysia and singapore would be practising this too, along with kavadi aattam and thee midhi. no? havent
seen northies do it, but then, my experience with their temples is practically none.
 
Last edited:
kunjuppu said:
amala,

we call in thOppu karaNam in tamil. :)

when i was young, if had to be punished, the most common form, apart from the cane, was 50 times thOppu karaNam, non stop, in quick succession - enough to put you out of breath. great abs exercise incidentally.

it is as much a sign of veneration cum penance, as punishment particularly when meted out to sub teen boys of tamil nadu. have not seen too
many girls do this.

i suggest, you try it once, for the heck of it, taking care not to knot or lock your knees. as i said, apart from the religiosity, it is great for
stomach muscles and a flat belly.

which is why chubby folks with pot bellies will find it difficult to go through the whole process - holding your hands to the ears, crosswise or
straight, bending fully and the knucles to touch the knee caps. they usually topple forwards and fall down. i have to accept, that no matter who does it, it does not look elegant. but ganesha is supposed to be satisfied.

good fun :)

i would have thought that tamils in malaysia and singapore would be practising this too, along with kavadi aattam and thee midhi. no? havent
seen northies do it, but then, my experience with their temples is practically none.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have seen some men do this in KL. Mostly SL of both genders do this here. I have tried this before without crossing my hands pulling my ears and it really hurts the thigh muscles the next day alot like breastroke swimming.

But i wondered why only for Pillaiyaar and not for Sivan or Vishnu, this ThOppu KaraNam?

It appears to be good for the brain as well, from Shri MSK's post, so all the more reason to do it daily! :)
 
It is from the Sanskrit word "दोर्भिः कर्णः (dorbhiḥ karṇaḥ) - both ears also". Means prostration while holding both the ears also (with hands). But doing a proper namaskaaram in this way will be strenuous and may even cause injury to nose - without arm support on the ground - and hence the practice has come to what we see it as today.

Much is made out of a twist in the ear and heart/brain functioning better and so on, but I for one do not know whether any serious, medical research is so far available which corroborates this claim.
 
Taken from Teaching Open Source Software Forum
You have to be open and critical to both sides.

In the meantime, please do not mislead others on
thinking that the current decadent peer-review
publishing system is in any way related to the
rigor of the scientific method.

(Warning Video is 30 minutes long)

This talk from Keith Baggerly at MD. Anderson:
The Importance of Reproducible Research in High-Throughput Biology: Case Studies in Forensic Bioinformatics - videolectures.net
will hopefully help to illustrate the differences.

The topic is more widely discussed here:
A case study in the need for open data and code: Forensic Bioinformatics « Victoria Stodden

"This is the work that resulted in the termination
of clinical trials at Duke last November and the
resignation of Anil Potti"

The same case was discussed recently
in The Economist:
Misconduct in science: An array of errors | The Economist
 
Nope, no North Indians. It is a Tamil/Telugu thing. I think it may have something to do with Ganesha's large ears.


amala said:
Ok this may be a silly question but I've always wondered nevertheless. Why do people do a sort of sit up like thing when praying to Ganesha while pulling their ears and hitting their temples? head? with their knuckles? Is this just a Tamil thing or do other Indians do this? Do they do this in the north as well?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
What difference would procedure really make in prayer.When God is Antarayaamin I guess the most important Idol is inside us.
Just relax and be free when we pray..too many rules and regulations kills the beauty of religion.
 
The order of worship is important in the sense it is followed by your family and group based on time hollowed traditions. Our culture is so much personalized that it is better to follow your tradition and respect others'. It will also depend on the temple practices. All practices are acceptable, but not for all.

Once this principle is accepted, many of the our divergent practices will fall in place and will remove doubts.

"enga veetu pazhakkkam, enga kula pazhakkam" is to be acknowledged and accepted.
 
We have so many practices. Some we understand, others we do not have the correct explanation. I have come to realize that some of the practice which seemed strange at that time, after getting proper explanation makes sense.

Some of the procedures were mandated as religious were purely for physical benefits. I never did the exercise yoga in India, but after seeing the poses they do reminds me postures we do in day to day life in India. So may be the pose were prescribed for health benefit.

Going round in parikrama, could also be power walking. They may not have any religious significance but they do help you health wise. To give incentives to people they are promised some rewards. Just because you sometime get the reward promised, you start to believe in that practice.

Is my God going to reward me? That is not my motivation. At the same time as I posted before I will not embarrass my guide and will do (at least pretend) what I am told.

We were asked to rent south Indian cloths to were over our north Indian cloths in Kerala, we did it. In another we had to strip the upper body. LOL
I was told to take off shoe going to a Makbara tomb (taj Mahal) i did not protest or walk out.
Similarly they ask you to put cloth over your head (male/female) in gurudwara, I respect that. But I refuse to take the drink in a Church.

I like Sarag's prescription. Follow your families principle, at the same time follow the prevailing practice of the temple.
 
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sarang said:
The order of worship is important in the sense it is followed by your family and group based on time hollowed traditions. Our culture is so much personalized that it is better to follow your tradition and respect others'. It will also depend on the temple practices. All practices are acceptable, but not for all.

Once this principle is accepted, many of the our divergent practices will fall in place and will remove doubts.

"enga veetu pazhakkkam, enga kula pazhakkam" is to be acknowledged and accepted.
Click to expand...

when in rome, do as the romans :)
 
Mr Prasad,

Please don't mistake my query but I am most baffled as to how you were even offered that drink in church. At least all the RC churches that I've been too in quite a few countries at that have never let me as a unbaptised RC take either the bread/wafer or any drink.
 
amala said:
Mr Prasad,

Please don't mistake my query but I am most baffled as to how you were even offered that drink in church. At least all the RC churches that I've been too in quite a few countries at that have never let me as a unbaptised RC take either the bread/wafer or any drink.
Click to expand...


Don't get exited it is a sip not happy hour. lol

We were invited guest of the bishop. We had gone to church as part of interfaith group. It was just one of visit. May be I got lucky.
 
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Another point I would like to add - it is stated that a Saashtanga Namaskaram before deities - I have had it from my Acharyan that if one does daily Namaskaram (prostrations) (even as per their own Sampradaya) helps one avoid cardiac arrests. Namaskarams after Sandhyavandhanam (it would be three times a day) would be sufficient. It was perhaps thought at a time that the lifestyle should be linked to religion to make it a proper one. Rather if not linked obedience was not possible. Perhaps due to such feelings, the procedures for temple worship including the pradakshinam etc. were laid out. In Tiruvidaimarudur Mahalingaswamy temple or temples like Madurai Meenakshi temple which occupy huge space one pradakshinam of the outer periphery (praakaaram) in the evening times or morning times could be considered as a sufficient waliking exercise. But, there are certain procedures which are ordained as Mahaganapathi as Agra poojitha (first worship right granted to him by his parents), touching the Nandikeswara on his backside while leaving the Siva temple and looking at the linga between his horns etc. -- these are universal. One can not have all knowledge but when something comes to your mind and appeals to you you should follow. But at the end of it, I would like to go with the practice of Paramartha guru - Adhi Shankara Bhagavatpada - as said in Nirvana Shatakam.
 
biswa said:
Nope, no North Indians. It is a Tamil/Telugu thing. I think it may have something to do with Ganesha's large ears.
Click to expand...
No Biswa! Nothing to do with Lord Ganesha's ear. There is a story about river Cauvery and Agasthiyar.

The story copy pasted from a page from 'Indian Heritage':

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]During the wedding of Siva with Parvathi in the Mount Kailas, the entire population, Devas and Rishis had gathered &

hence the Northern land dipped down, unable to bear the weight. [/SIZE]Lord Siva asked Sage Agasthiar to go to the

Podhigai ranges in the Southern land in order to balance the weight. (Agasthiar was very short in stature but his

might was so great). Agasthiar was sad that he could not stay & witness the Lord's wedding.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Siva granted that he

would still be able to see the wedding from the South. From within his matted locks, he took river Cauvery & filled it

in Agasthiar's kamandalam (spouted pot), bidding Cauvery to flow wherever Agasthiar pointed. Agasthiar reached

the south & travelled to various Siva Sthalams. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Surapaduman was an asura, who had immense power. Indra had run

away in fear from his Indralogam, reached Sirgazhi in the southern regions of India & prayed to Lord Siva. He created

a beautiful garden & worshipped Lord Siva with the flowers from his garden. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]But soon, Lord Varuna in fear of

Surapaduman did not shower rains & Indran's garden & in fact the whole land suffered from lack of water. Sage

Narada, told Indran of the river Cauvery that Lord Siva had once filled in Agasthiar's kamandalam. Indran prayed to

Lord Ganesha for his help. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Ganesha took the form of a crow & sat on Agasthiar's kamandalam & toppled it. Agasthiar

lifted his hands to shoo off the crow. River Cauvery, took it as a signal for her & began to flow. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The crow took the

form of a small boy. Agasthiar started chasing the boy trying to strike him on his head with his knuckles. Ganesha

took his original form. Agasthiar was saddened that he had tried to strike Lord Ganesha. He started striking his

forehead with his knuckles. Ganesha stopped him & granted that everybody who worshipped him in this manner

would be blessed with wisdom.'

We have added "thopukaraNam" (punishing ourselves?) after the "kuttu" on our foreheads!
[/SIZE]
BTW, do you know that it is scientifically proved that "thOpukaraNam" activates the brain? If I find the clipping on

youtube, I shall post here soon! :)


 
Dear Somanathan Iyer,
Washing our feet after offering prayers at Navagraha Sannidhanam is news to me as stated by Sri Sangom Sir. I am only trying to share what has been taugt to me by my father.To that matter we do not wash our feet on reaching home after the temple visit as stated by Sangom Sir.Added to that it was considered necessary either by tradition or by prescrIption to rest near the entrance inside the temple .This is particularly a prerequisite before leaving the Siva temple (wherein in some other deities are also installed) as we have to take leave from the " Siva Ganas " who are with one and all while doing Pradakshinam to protect the Bakhthas, by reciting a sloka which is mentioned below:
'Mahabali mukhassarve Sivagya paripalaya maya nirvarthithayuiim gachdhvam Siva Sannidhim'. This was taught to me by my father.
There seems to be a feeling that one will forego the "punya" gained by visiting the temples if one washes the feet immediately on reaching home.

P S Narayanan
 
Dear Somanathan Iyer,
Washing our feet after offering prayers at Navagraha Sannidhanam is news to me as stated by Sri Sangom Sir. I am only trying to share what has been taugt to me by my father.To that matter we do not wash our feet on reaching home after the temple visit as stated by Sangom Sir.Added to that it was considered necessary either by tradition or by prescrIption to rest near the entrance inside the temple .This is particularly a prerequisite before leaving the Siva temple (wherein in some other deities are also installed) as we have to take leave from the " Siva Ganas " who are with one and all while doing Pradakshinam to protect the Bakhthas, by reciting a sloka which is mentioned below:
'Mahabali mukhassarve Sivagya paripalaya maya nirvarthithayuiim gachdhvam Siva Sannidhim'. This was taught to me by my father.
There seems to be a feeling that one will forego the "punya" gained by visiting the temples if one washes the feet immediately on reaching home.

P S Narayanan
​
 
Dear Sri Narayanan, I agree with your views.The tradition followed in our family is also like that only. Taking bath is also not done immediately on return from the temple.Natpushpa.
 
I think, it depends on how dirty you feel. I do wash my feet after going to temple. Because in India, you walk a long distance barefoot after coming out of the temple. So there is nothing right or wrong about that practice.

I take shower whenever I feel sweaty in India, particularly in Mumbai, or Chennai. So again talking shower is not wrong. In case of people who do not believe in God, but still went to Temple for some reason may feel dirty, so for them taking shower is mandatory.

After talking a dip in Ganges in Kashi, I had to have shower in the clean tap water in the hotel. Mr. Sangom has made his belief or lack of it known. So take his comments knowing his personal philosophy.

Going to Temple is between you and your God, why do you worry about the method. If your God is such that He will punish you for all your misdeeds, then may be you need a new definition of God. My God does not need me to do anything for Him/Her. I do it for my satisfaction.
 
Last edited:
Raji Ram said:
No Biswa! Nothing to do with Lord Ganesha's ear. There is a story about river Cauvery and Agasthiyar.

The story copy pasted from a page from 'Indian Heritage':

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]During the wedding of Siva with Parvathi in the Mount Kailas, the entire population, Devas and Rishis had gathered &

hence the Northern land dipped down, unable to bear the weight. [/SIZE]Lord Siva asked Sage Agasthiar to go to the

Podhigai ranges in the Southern land in order to balance the weight. (Agasthiar was very short in stature but his

might was so great). Agasthiar was sad that he could not stay & witness the Lord's wedding.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Siva granted that he

would still be able to see the wedding from the South. From within his matted locks, he took river Cauvery & filled it

in Agasthiar's kamandalam (spouted pot), bidding Cauvery to flow wherever Agasthiar pointed. Agasthiar reached

the south & travelled to various Siva Sthalams. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Surapaduman was an asura, who had immense power. Indra had run

away in fear from his Indralogam, reached Sirgazhi in the southern regions of India & prayed to Lord Siva. He created

a beautiful garden & worshipped Lord Siva with the flowers from his garden. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]But soon, Lord Varuna in fear of

Surapaduman did not shower rains & Indran's garden & in fact the whole land suffered from lack of water. Sage

Narada, told Indran of the river Cauvery that Lord Siva had once filled in Agasthiar's kamandalam. Indran prayed to

Lord Ganesha for his help. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Ganesha took the form of a crow & sat on Agasthiar's kamandalam & toppled it. Agasthiar

lifted his hands to shoo off the crow. River Cauvery, took it as a signal for her & began to flow. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The crow took the

form of a small boy. Agasthiar started chasing the boy trying to strike him on his head with his knuckles. Ganesha

took his original form. Agasthiar was saddened that he had tried to strike Lord Ganesha. He started striking his

forehead with his knuckles. Ganesha stopped him & granted that everybody who worshipped him in this manner

would be blessed with wisdom.'

We have added "thopukaraNam" (punishing ourselves?) after the "kuttu" on our foreheads!
[/SIZE]
BTW, do you know that it is scientifically proved that "thOpukaraNam" activates the brain? If I find the clipping on

youtube, I shall post here soon! :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for this interesting story. Now i know why some do the thoppu karanam and kuttu for Ganesh.
 
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