Post ICM Social Status and Position

[krish44]

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My concern is more about offsprings of ICM or IRM marriages.where one mate is brahmin.

These children are not accepted in brahmin community and are forced to opt for marriages from other communities or religion.. They are unable to return to brahmin

fold in case these offsprings desire that. If the attitude of brahmins for exclusiveness persists, the community in terms of numbers will dwindle like dinosaurs .Our

religeous leaders , if we can accept anyone as one have to intervene to make possible a new order which will accept these half brahmins with one brahmin parent.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

This extreme behaviour IMHO is because brahmin community is paternalistic and status of women is very inferior to men in brahmin families. Hence these women try to escape and find solace and delivery by opting for other communities where they think their status will improve.Sometimes , they find they have jumped from frying pan into the fire and regret their decision . In others ,they are lucky to get a better option.My feeling is a successful marriage depends on both boys and girls bond with each other and their families after marriage not on caste or sub caste.Any marriage can be a good marriage if only both boy and girl work to make it successful.

It is not true. Which religion or caste has given full freedom to women, and encourage IRM / ICM marriage.

In other religions and castes, if marriage takes outside the religion/caste, there is serious resistance - Dharmapuri incident an example - whereas since Bs are not generally aggressive and brave to face such challenges, it happens without any fight, and ultimately the family puts the blame on fate.

 

[theseventhhill]

My concern is more about offsprings of ICM or IRM marriages.where one mate is brahmin.

These children are not accepted in brahmin community and are forced to opt for marriages from other communities or religion.. They are unable to return to brahmin

fold in case these offsprings desire that. If the attitude of brahmins for exclusiveness persists, the community in terms of numbers will dwindle like dinosaurs .Our

religeous leaders , if we can accept anyone as one have to intervene to make possible a new order which will accept these half brahmins with one brahmin parent.

When entire B community realized that population is dwindling, liberal values taking over entire societies, still inter B marriages have not reached a critical mass. This is the most surprising aspect. After going through 60s-90s of DK, movie attacks, media vilification etc, still our folks want to romanticize the past.

One new trend I have observed in India and in the U.S. is the emergence of non-mainstream (I mean one that does not follow under the more established philosophies of Adviata, Dwaita and V.Adwaitam) spiritual pathways (Babas, ISKCON etc.) In particular ISKCON is seen as very secular and pro-women, they have women priests as well. So the ICM folks or the economically forward folks who want a spiritual getaway AND get some name recognition choose ISKCON. In ISCKON I have seen for ardent devotees, their guru initiates them and then later does Upanayanam as well. The folks who were not accepted in the hierarchical elitists TB gumbal in temples (Veda Parayanam, Prabandham, Aagamas etc), they choose this route. After 5-7 years of strict observance , guaranteed Upanayanam irrespective of original caste. This way, the ICM have found a way around the system in 1 aspect.
IRMs, IMHO are a different beast. I cannot understand the common ground between X and I or X and H, where is the middle ground after the lust and money shine fades?
The exclusivity stems primarily from the ritualistic aspects ingrained through Thithis, Tharpanam, Upanayanam and Kalyanam, there is no war around it. If one were to change this, Manu , Kannan, Raman , all need to give another visit to Bhoomi and fix it.:boink:
Upper class B women seek economic and power match, so that hybridization has happened long time back. Simple glance at the TB women in DMK family, PC family , HINDU family and so on will reveal this trend which started way back in 80s.
Coming from a Sannidhi theru brought up, I can vociferously say that B guys will never settle for ICM, unless it is some case of lust gone wrong and turns into a caste war we see in Bharathiraja movies. :bump2:

 

[V.Balasubramani]

This extreme behaviour IMHO is because brahmin community is paternalistic and status of women is very inferior to men in brahmin families.

This is absurd.

This posting sounds like Brahmins community is paternalistic and do the poster mean indirectly that other communities are dominant with henpecked??? LOL

 

[vgane]

It is not true. Which religion or caste has given full freedom to women, and encourage IRM / ICM marriage.

In other religions and castes, if marriage takes outside the religion/caste, there is serious resistance - Dharmapuri incident an example - whereas since Bs are not generally aggressive and brave to face such challenges, it happens without any fight, and ultimately the family puts the blame on fate.

We blame fate, we blame the upbringing, we blame the insidious culture...But are we ready to introspect and try to find a solution...We tend to be stubborn and assume all is hunky dory without doing a reality check...We are like the proverbial frog in a boiling water which does not know the impending danger

 

[krish44]

I am talking about brahmin community and not anyone else.

I am unable to comment on communities I do not belong to.... .

There is no point in saying other communites/religion are worse.

This ostrich like approach and not seeing realities on the ground is doing no one any good.

 

[theseventhhill]

The unique dimension of the B community issues is we have social and cultural aspects. Not saying other communities are culture-less or not have any social issues but our problem us a B specific problem. Cultural aspects are the emphasis on maintaining mutts, temples, agama schools, veda patashalas, Sanskrit based education on Vedanta, support poor B families, anthima kaaryam resources etc . The social element it ofcourse money, power, greed, love, lust, materialistic desires, and most importantly social status+rank+recognition.
Blaming DK, patriarchy, movie influence etc is all eye wash, no major merit in today's time. Introspection and proactive measures are missing in both social and cultural aspects. Today's B folks, especially the men have prime opportunity to do some major shakeup in the architecture. They are well positioned to contribute to cultural and social aspects. Money and education ( at least engineering + decent IT job) are not major issues. Money in B community flows a lot. The problem is the misplaced priorities. Affluent weddings for "show-off" and approval from peers is one such aspect. The issue of ICM kids is particularly relevant and important in the cultural aspects:
1. In many rural temples, father priest is probably the lone one man army doing bhattar job. If she has a daughter and did ICM or IRM, the temple rights is up in the air.
2. There have been numerous incidents in big temples where NB try to get back door entry to core temple affairs by virtue of being an ICM kid whose father in law as a priest or did service in temples.
3. The apathy in the affluent class especially B, is painful. I have seen families shed $$$$ on Bhelpuri stall for marriage but whine for weeks when it comes to giving partly sum to Brihaspathi.
4. Today's B men 25-35 age group should try to strike a balance between fulfilling both cultural and social aspects. They should not let go of basic anushtanam (sandhyavandhanam) and at the same time should flex to enjoy the comforts of life and do some targeted service that directly affect B's.
5. Marriage is a gone case, so more B's should strive to focus on larger community good rather than making their parents happy. Stay single and consider your job as a means to pay bills and nothing more. One can focus more on social issues and be a better amBIssidor. Being single and contributing to society through tangible actions and $ is better than having a family of 4 with zero or even worse, hatred towards B customs and above all the Dharmic philosophy .
6. The next biggest slug fest will be in temple rights and ownership . With families crumbling down and next gen not interested in Dharmic activities, temples will be lost one by one and soon we can definitely see a ICM priest in Kabaleeshwarar temple.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

This ostrich like approach and not seeing realities on the ground is doing no one any good.

No body passed comments on other communities. Your opinion is implied as though other communities are practicing right values, etc etc

This opinion of yours is far from truth and nothing to do with ground reality. Only people with highly misconceived and perverted mindset will come out with such opinions.

 

[sangom]

For many reasons, some of which may be known to us and others still not understood, there has been a steady increase in ICMs & IRMs; my own impression is that this started with the IT/BPO sectors providing emploument for a very large number of girls (including tabra girls), these girls earning fabulous salaries & perquisites which their parents had not seen in their whole life, and many of these girls getting a chance to go abroad temporarily, at least. The US/western culture and the interactions there between boys and girls of marriageable age, etc., seem to have incited our younger people, more particularly the girls, to venture into tha so-called "love" with someone of their liking and getting married to that partner even disregarding the suggestions of parents and other close relatives & well-wishers.

Now that these girls/boys have plunged into the ICM/IRM ocean, we should leave it to their skill and tenacity which they show abundantly while before the marriage, to fend their course of life in the ICM/IRM ocean. Let us not bother about their post ICM social status. That is completely unnecessary for this forum.

 

[yesmohan]

Very polarizing and emotional comment. ICMs also "proclaim" they are liberal, progressive etc.. but when things do not go their way (not getting B alliance), they leave India citing India is intolerant :eyebrows:. One thing for sure,the hypocrisy and bigotry knows no bounds on both sides of the aisle.

Please read post no 23 again. There is no emotion in my post.
If the ICMs leave India it is only for their own better prospects.It is a gain to the nation also as these breed would earn and sent inward remittance.
No loss to the Bs as the ICMs already cease to be Bs.

 

[krish44]

For many reasons, some of which may be known to us and others still not understood, there has been a steady increase in ICMs & IRMs; my own impression is that this started with the IT/BPO sectors providing emploument for a very large number of girls (including tabra girls), these girls earning fabulous salaries & perquisites which their parents had not seen in their whole life, and many of these girls getting a chance to go abroad temporarily, at least. The US/western culture and the interactions there between boys and girls of marriageable age, etc., seem to have incited our younger people, more particularly the girls, to venture into tha so-called "love" with someone of their liking and getting married to that partner even disregarding the suggestions of parents and other close relatives & well-wishers.

Now that these girls/boys have plunged into the ICM/IRM ocean, we should leave it to their skill and tenacity which they show abundantly while before the marriage, to fend their course of life in the ICM/IRM ocean. Let us not bother about their post ICM social status. That is completely unnecessary for this forum.

The ICM and IRM marriages with one brahmin is trend setting. If some venture into it and make a success of it, it should encourage other cat on the wall cases to take

the plunge. Over a period of time the existing small community of brahmins will shrink further. Either the community learns to absorb them in its fold and enable ICM

off springs to find brahmin matches or face extinction in due course of time. Why not wake up and be enablers to absorb ICM half brahmin off springs if they are

otherwise qualified? We believe in pariharam and such rituals for atonement for wrongs committed. There can be shuddhi ceremony if the orthodox desire for taking

back these ICM kids. After all these kids cannot be held responsible for their parents actions of inter caste marriage

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Those who preach about ICM or IRM vehemently in this Forum should first set an example themselves by following the ICM or IRM marriages to their offspring.

Will they do??

And everybody in this Forum know pretty well that mere preaching is a very easy thing to do and some love to do it merily.

We have more such torch bearers of arm chair revolutionaries to preach about ICM or IRM marriages in this Forum and to shoot postings for pages together untiringly. Such hypocrites never miss the opportunity of offering their opinion whenever threads on such topic are posted here and unfortunately their posting will sound like as though they are protector of Brahmin community and are deadly against its extinction, dwindling to zero, etc etc. LOL

But when it comes to following such revolutionary principles by themselves by going in for ICM or IRM marriages for their offspring, they will have lot of reservation and excuses.

Will such hypocrites prove atleast henceforth that they are 'action kings', they mean what they write and not mere 'preachers'.

I just remember the quote:

"An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching"

​

- Mohandas Gandhi

 

[Vaagmi]

The ICM and IRM marriages with one brahmin is trend setting. If some venture into it and make a success of it, it should encourage other cat on the wall cases to take the plunge.

There is nothing trend setting about ICM or IRM. One tree does not make a wood. For every ICM or IRM taking place, there are a hundred normal successful, traditional,within the community marriages taking place. What is trend setting about these ICMs? The cat on the wall is under the influence of hormones. After sometime and after seeing all those cats suffering on the hot tin roofs, these cats will choose the right side and jump (not plunge and get hurt). LOL.

And we perfectly understand the necessity of "revolutionery, liberals" pontificating about ICM here. They are liberally giving us the lethal dose of the poisonous medicine their children have administered to them. Poor souls, when they were chasing a chimera thinking that that is the purushartha, their children were going on blind dates. After a number of such blind dates and after a lot of things happening in these encounters, they have run away with someone. These revolutionary liberal parents were not able to do anything about it other than blessing them half heartedly. Even after all these happenings, they did not have the necessary stuff in them to do a soul searching to find out what went wrong. The next easy thing to do was to come and prescribe the poison to others so that it can be an orgy with all those who got their high.

Over a period of time the existing small community of brahmins will shrink further. Either the community learns to absorb them in its fold and enable ICM off springs to find brahmin matches or face extinction in due course of time. Why not wake up and be enablers to absorb ICM half brahmin off springs if they are otherwise qualified? We believe in pariharam and such rituals for atonement for wrongs committed. There can be shuddhi ceremony if the orthodox desire for taking
back these ICM kids. After all these kids cannot be held responsible for their parents actions of inter caste marriage

The brahmin community had always been small. It can never become big by proliferating as the necessary fertility is not there.

The ICM offsprings are not brahmins and they will have to get their matches from elsewhere.

They do not simply qualify. Period.

This is a pariharam-less situation.

Shudhdhi is not for this kind of stupidity.

Parents are responsible for the children's misery.

 

[theseventhhill]

Definitely, I agree with the majority of the opinions. Arm chair criticism and preaching to the choir are very easy to do. I do sense a mini revolution is happening to match with the changing times but the critical mass has not yet reached why is why it always appears gloom and doom. Of all the reforms we need, tagging ICM kid as B and wholeheartedly embracing their liberal values is lowest priority

 

[sangom]

The ICM and IRM marriages with one brahmin is trend setting. If some venture into it and make a success of it, it should encourage other cat on the wall cases to take

the plunge. Over a period of time the existing small community of brahmins will shrink further. Either the community learns to absorb them in its fold and enable ICM

off springs to find brahmin matches or face extinction in due course of time. Why not wake up and be enablers to absorb ICM half brahmin off springs if they are

otherwise qualified? We believe in pariharam and such rituals for atonement for wrongs committed. There can be shuddhi ceremony if the orthodox desire for taking

back these ICM kids. After all these kids cannot be held responsible for their parents actions of inter caste marriage

Shri krish Sir,

I know a few cases of tabra boy/girl who were married to NBs like goldsmith community girl, ezhava boy, etc., on the initiatives of the parents or the responsible elders who were the guardians. These rare cases of ICM couples happened, in the case of one boy due to a combination of factors like poverty, consequent low educational qualification and low status job (temple pujari of a private temple of a nair tarwad) etc., whereas, in the case of one of the girls which I know of, it was "jAtakadOsham" due to which the girl had to remain unmarried for a long time (till she was about 30 or so). These couples are living happily in their surroundings and the tabra community also accepts them without any bias.

The case of the high-profile, high-earning, adventurous types of ICM/IRM cannot and should not be equated with the above types of exceptional cases, I feel, because ICM/IRM is not a 'developmental' step but an (mis-) adventure step I feel. In such cases while we of the tabra community will have nothing against those adventurers, we cannot be expected to be அடிவருடிs (foot-lickers) of such people for any reason whatsoever. This is my opinion.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

The biggest minus point in ICR/ICM marriages involving Bs - boy or girl - is about the feed-back. There is no data collection on such marriages.

It is still not known how couples of such marriages are leading their life and what is the percentage divorce in such marriages.

 

[theseventhhill]

I think there is no official means to do this. Census report is the only option but everyone is not always honest when census guys come to our house. I think by sheer math of population, the ICMs between upper NB and other NBs will be very high. But on a per capita basis,ICMs from TBs would be very high. These kids by now due to their economic position would be welcomed with open hands in historically B dominated or at least flavored schools like PS, PSBB, and VM etc .
I think moving forward economics alone would dictate social and familial contracts like marriage. Now a days in this social media world, there are always "wanabees" who are more close to B's than Bs themselves. take the TV anchors for example. In the name of "cool, hip and trendy", we see multicultural flow of thoughts. But as basic chemistry principles would tell us, it will end up making everyone mediocre and cater to the lowest common denominator. I have never seen NBs hanging out with Bs suddenly pickup Devaram or Thiruvasagam for spiritual or for love of Tamil purposes or become vegetarian. On the contrary more Bs can be found partying and doing merry go around with the new found purchasing power.
In depth anthropological and sociological studies are needed to understand the evolution of our community in a systematic research style fashion. I did work on this but it was mostly related to temples in dire conditions and lack of people to do service, tracking lost Gothras and Shakas etc. Hopefully in my lifetime, I will accomplish this study.

 

[krish44]

There is nothing trend setting about ICM or IRM. One tree does not make a wood. For every ICM or IRM taking place, there are a hundred normal successful, traditional,within the community marriages taking place. What is trend setting about these ICMs? The cat on the wall is under the influence of hormones. After sometime and after seeing all those cats suffering on the hot tin roofs, these cats will choose the right side and jump (not plunge and get hurt). LOL.

And we perfectly understand the necessity of "revolutionery, liberals" pontificating about ICM here. They are liberally giving us the lethal dose of the poisonous medicine their children have administered to them. Poor souls, when they were chasing a chimera thinking that that is the purushartha, their children were going on blind dates. After a number of such blind dates and after a lot of things happening in these encounters, they have run away with someone. These revolutionary liberal parents were not able to do anything about it other than blessing them half heartedly. Even after all these happenings, they did not have the necessary stuff in them to do a soul searching to find out what went wrong. The next easy thing to do was to come and prescribe the poison to others so that it can be an orgy with all those who got their high.



The brahmin community had always been small. It can never become big by proliferating as the necessary fertility is not there.

The ICM offsprings are not brahmins and they will have to get their matches from elsewhere.

They do not simply qualify. Period.

This is a pariharam-less situation.

Shudhdhi is not for this kind of stupidity.

Parents are responsible for the children's misery.

1. I think it is an ostrich like attitude to say the ICM involving brahmins does not exist. or negligible. Almost every brahmin family either their own or of their siblings is

having atleast one who is an ICM . The issue is very real.

2The poster does not decide whether ICM should or should not get a match from brahmin community. The market forces decide the mate what one gets for marriage

based

on his qualifications, likes and who is available and willing to enter into a marriage relationship.

3.Even the ruling party at the centre is talking of shuddhi ceremonies for those even belonging to other religions and taking them back into hindufold.

It is believed our religeous leaders of the past such as Ramanuja took many into brahmin fold . { I do not know if it is fully correct.Only members can enlighten}

So offsprings can definitely qualify to return to brahmin living and get absorbed. Why not?



4.The reach of the parents to set terms to their older children has vastly diminished over time. The authoritarianism and heavy handedness has been made to make way for a

better society where any type of parental abuse relating to children specially women is no longer tolerated. Women who are educated and working exercise their right

of choice caring two hoots for their parents. Most parents may not have much of a choice. The rules of arranged marriage set by parents promotes matches where women status

is considered inferior to men and they are considered as commodities to be traded at the worst.Working women hence lay down their guidelines for mates. If

brahmin

boys cannot meet their requirements , then they opt for ICM. This is in arranged matches. In so called love marriages , they choose boys they are comfortable with and

not worry about caste too much.

5. Parents cannot be made responsible for choices of children.

In fact , the parents have no right to decide whom their adult children should marry. If children consult them , they are doing out of courtesy and parents are not

supposed to move in and start deciding.Parents have lived their own life and should not damage their childrens life by making choices with biases which are based

on their experiences. With adult children, relationships are based on friendships and not on blood ties alone. When children make choices based on requirements of

modern living , they are likely to be wiser than their parents....

 

[theseventhhill]

1. I think it is an ostrich like attitude to say the ICM involving brahmins does not exist. or negligible. Almost every brahmin family either their own or of their siblings is

having atleast one who is an ICM . The issue is very real.

2The poster does not decide whether ICM should or should not get a match from brahmin community. The market forces decide the mate what one gets for marriage

based

on his qualifications, likes and who is available and willing to enter into a marriage relationship.

3.Even the ruling party at the centre is talking of shuddhi ceremonies for those even belonging to other religions and taking them back into hindufold.

It is believed our religeous leaders of the past such as Ramanuja took many into brahmin fold . { I do not know if it is fully correct.Only members can enlighten}

So offsprings can definitely qualify to return to brahmin living and get absorbed. Why not?

Who decides what is stupid and what is not by the way?

4.The reach of the parents to set terms to their older children has vastly diminished over time. The authoritarianism and heavy handedness has been made to make way for a

better society where any type of parental abuse relating to children specially women is no longer tolerated. Women who are educated and working exercise their right

of choice caring two hoots for their parents. Most parents may not have much of a choice. The rules of arranged marriage set by parents promotes matches where women status

is considered inferior to men and they are considered as commodities to be traded at the worst.Working women hence lay down their guidelines for mates. If

brahmin

boys cannot meet their requirements , then they opt for ICM. This is in arranged matches. In so called love marriages , they choose boys they are comfortable with and

not worry about caste too much.

5. Parents cannot be made responsible for choices of children.

In fact , the parents have no right to decide whom their adult children should marry. If children consult them , they are doing out of courtesy and parents are not

supposed to move in and start deciding.Parents have lived their own life and should not damage their childrens life by making choices with biases which are based

on their experiences. With adult children, relationships are based on friendships and not on blood ties alone. When children make choices based on requirements of

modern living , they are likely to be wiser than their parents....

3.Even the ruling party at the centre is talking of shuddhi ceremonies for those even belonging to other religions and taking them back into hindufold.

It is believed our religeous leaders of the past such as Ramanuja took many into brahmin fold . { I do not know if it is fully correct.Only members can enlighten
Major correction.
Ramanujar DID NOT CONVERT people to Brahmin caste. Smriti does not allow caste conversion just like that. It is a wrong story that has been floating popular imagination. Ramanujar identified kainkaryam for all caste members and made temple activities include all strata of society

 

[krish44]

Shri krish Sir,

I know a few cases of tabra boy/girl who were married to NBs like goldsmith community girl, ezhava boy, etc., on the initiatives of the parents or the responsible elders who were the guardians. These rare cases of ICM couples happened, in the case of one boy due to a combination of factors like poverty, consequent low educational qualification and low status job (temple pujari of a private temple of a nair tarwad) etc., whereas, in the case of one of the girls which I know of, it was "jAtakadOsham" due to which the girl had to remain unmarried for a long time (till she was about 30 or so). These couples are living happily in their surroundings and the tabra community also accepts them without any bias.

The case of the high-profile, high-earning, adventurous types of ICM/IRM cannot and should not be equated with the above types of exceptional cases, I feel, because ICM/IRM is not a 'developmental' step but an (mis-) adventure step I feel. In such cases while we of the tabra community will have nothing against those adventurers, we cannot be expected to be அடிவருடிs (foot-lickers) of such people for any reason whatsoever. This is my opinion.

Sangom sir
The discrimination in brahmin community based on financial status or dosha creating a situation that that they have to go for other communities for marriage as a

reason for their acceptance by brahmin community for a social relationship exhibits a mindset that such ICM couple have committed a wrong and brahmins are

reluctantly accepting it is immoral. First there are no community enablers making possible the same sect marriage for such disadvantaged people. Then we make

them feel guilty that they have found a match in other communities and condescendingly offer to transact with them . Which brahmin text justifies this behaviour?

ICM offsprings with one brahmin might find some problem in finding a match in brahmin community but I am sure they try hard enough they will get one if they try in

times to come. India is changing and more economically prosperity will lower the caste divide and bring about mix of brahmin community with others including

ICMs

 

[zebra16]

Women who are educated and working exercise their right of choice caring two hoots for their parents.

Your position on other points are well known.

Is this "caring two hoots" attitude for the parents by the modern tabras (whether boy or girl) is desirable or recommended? Are we appreciating it, condoning it or feeling helpless about it?

 

[sangom]

Sangom sir
The discrimination in brahmin community based on financial status or dosha creating a situation that that they have to go for other communities for marriage as a

reason for their acceptance by brahmin community for a social relationship exhibits a mindset that such ICM couple have committed a wrong and brahmins are

reluctantly accepting it is immoral. First there are no community enablers making possible the same sect marriage for such disadvantaged people. Then we make

them feel guilty that they have found a match in other communities and condescendingly offer to transact with them . Which brahmin text justifies this behaviour?

ICM offsprings with one brahmin might find some problem in finding a match in brahmin community but I am sure they try hard enough they will get one if they try in

times to come. India is changing and more economically prosperity will lower the caste divide and bring about mix of brahmin community with others including

ICMs

Shri krish Sir,

I am personally not against ICMs so long as the parents of the tabra boy/girl know it beforehand and approve of it. I am also not fastidious about the marriage being conducted in the traditional tabra type with vaadhyaar, etc., and if both sied have agreed they may conduct even a registered marriage only.

My reservations arise only in those cases where the boy/girl choose a partner of the opposite sex on their own, insist that they will not settle for anything else and go ahead with their self-determined ICM. Having done that in the overemotional upsurge of the young age, I have seen/been told that the tabra girls come weeping to their mother for succour because they know only their office work and earning handsome salaries whereas the ICM husband starts insisting on a wife who will be true to the old-world wife in their caste; usually his role model is his mother in this respect. The girl's mother out of attachment, starts helping her daughter in whatever way possible for her, but in regard to items like NV cooking and other non-brahminical things, the issues take much longer to get smoothened out since the girl's mother does not know about these things. In due course the girl gets pregnant and then the story changes.

This offspring is very often tried to be brought up with brahmin values and customs and the ICM couple start insisting on Poonal for the son or a brahmin groom for their daughter. Even here, I have no objection. What I am averse to is the propaganda that the tabra community must help these ICM couples to re-establish their ICoffsprings into the brahmin community as though it is the bounden duty of the community to do so. It is nowhere written in our saastras that a child born to a brahmin woman by a NB must be accepted as brahmin by the community; if the father is brahmin and mother an NB, then also in every case of cross-bredding across the castes, the progeny is categorised and we have numerous such instances in our itihasas.

So, I say, let the ICM couples of the last category fend for themselves.

 

[krish44]

Your position on other points are well known.

Is this "caring two hoots" attitude for the parents by the modern tabras (whether boy or girl) is desirable or recommended? Are we appreciating it, condoning it or feeling helpless about it?

I do not sit on judgement made on attitudes adopted by the next generation. I am stating the ground situation. It is upto the parents to decide regarding their stance. It can

only be an individual stand . They can either hug or disown them .

 

[yesmohan]

Shri krish Sir,

.........................................


This offspring is very often tried to be brought up with brahmin values and customs and the ICM couple start insisting on Poonal for the son or a brahmin groom for their daughter. Even here, I have no objection. What I am averse to is the propaganda that the tabra community must help these ICM couples to re-establish their ICoffsprings into the brahmin community as though it is the bounden duty of the community to do so. It is nowhere written in our saastras that a child born to a brahmin woman by a NB must be accepted as brahmin by the community; if the father is brahmin and mother an NB, then also in every case of cross-bredding across the castes, the progeny is categorised and we have numerous such instances in our itihasas.

So, I say, let the ICM couples of the last category fend for themselves.

Well said. It is a straight forward and considered opinion.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

The best way is to create a new religion, system and customs and incorporate it to claim for rights on wrongs of the past. New history writers, dozen for a dime, will always be available. And live happily thereafter.