Perumal Naivedyam (பெருமாள் நைவேத்யம்)

[rsreenivasan]

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Perumal Naivedyam (பெருமாள் நைவேத்யம்)

நான் இருக்கும் ஊரில் உள்ள கோவிலில் ( செயிண்ட் லூயிஸ், யு.எஸ் ), கோவில் சமயலறையில் பிரசாதம் சமைத்த பின் ஒரு சிறு பாத்திரத்தில் பெருமாளுக்கு எடுத்து நைவேத்யத்துக்கு அனுப்பி விட்டு விற்க ஆரம்பித்து விடுகின்றனர். ஓரிரு மணி நேரம் கழிந்த பின்னரே அபிஷேகமும், பூஜையும் ,நைவேத்யமும் செய்யப்படுகிறது. இவ்வாறு செய்யலாமா ? வீட்டில் கூட நைவேத்யம் ஆகாமல் சாப்பிட அனுமதிக்க மாட்டார்கள் ..கோவிலில் நிச்சயம் செய்யக்கூடாது என்பது common sense என்றே நினைக்கிறேன்.. இருந்தாலும் இவ்வாறு செய்வதற்கோ செய்யக்கூடாது என்பதற்கோ சாஸ்திர விதிகள் உள்ளனவா ? இருந்தால் இவ்விதிமுறைகளைத் தர முடியுமா?
-ஶ்ரீனி

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

No doubt that it is against Aacharam. The word Prasadam must be offered to others only after Offering.

Why don't you go and object it and expose your Condemnation before the Temple
In charge people.

 

[kunjuppu]

sreenivasan,

these temples abroad have their own reasons for doing what they do. the last thing needed is someone from india coming and imposing their values.

if you do not like what they do, dont go there. or, try to influence by getting into the management of the temple and effecting a change from within. folks outside india are tired of interfrerence by 'know alls' from india, talking about acharam and all that.

if you are that keen on following acharam, you should not have crossed the black waters in the first place.

when in rome, do as the romans. ok?

 

[Govinda]

sreenivasan,

if you are that keen on following acharam, you should not have crossed the black waters in the first place.

when in rome, do as the romans. ok?

Sir,

Regarding crossing black waters, It was instructed so, because those days they practised strict spiritual disciplines and the resources and the conditions may not be convincing for daily practices. But now, I would say, foreign lands has better/cleaner atmosphere (for private practices) than that of India esp. Tamilnadu.

We are going to use the same municipality waters, groceries from public market etc, income from a non-vedika manager/company, how is India being different than black waters? We are atleast away from cable TVs, bollywood movies, gossips, politics etc. to influence us. I was spiritually ignorant back in India, and everyone was rat racing for money, power, marks etc. Plus, the temple outer premises and nearby places are filthy, don't tell me brahmins did that and Brahmins squandered the sanitation /scheme money. But I am up towards seeing India esp. south india moving towards spirituality.

I would think, Krishna must be a new happy resident of those Iskcon temples though,. They observe Ekadasi, Jnamshtami in compelte fasting. They offer all the food completely in temples (be it foreign lands or India), before the prasadam gathering. Just accept the fact that some of the hindus have acharam and devotion only for personal welfare and commerce.

when in rome, do as the romans. ok?

Why British/christians and muslims in India, dont do as hindus do? Instead, we are romans even in India

Thanks,
Govinda.

 

[Govinda]

இருந்தால் இவ்விதிமுறைகளைத் தர முடியுமா?
-ஶ்ரீனி

Resp. Sir,

One may refer for Agama like PanchrAtra (Tirupathi) etc. regarding temple worship. In most temples, the prasadam gathering is only after all the festivities are over. May be to cater to kids or elderly/sick, they can offer some other food than the main prasadam. You may discus with them politely about how you have seen practices in general, without expressing your doubt about their system.

Regards,
Govinda

 

[Subhalakshmi]

நான் இருக்கும் ஊரில் உள்ள கோவிலில் ( செயிண்ட் லூயிஸ், யு.எஸ் ), கோவில் சமயலறையில் பிரசாதம் சமைத்த பின் ஒரு சிறு பாத்திரத்தில் பெருமாளுக்கு எடுத்து நைவேத்யத்துக்கு அனுப்பி விட்டு விற்க ஆரம்பித்து விடுகின்றனர். ஓரிரு மணி நேரம் கழிந்த பின்னரே அபிஷேகமும், பூஜையும் ,நைவேத்யமும் செய்யப்படுகிறது. இவ்வாறு செய்யலாமா ? வீட்டில் கூட நைவேத்யம் ஆகாமல் சாப்பிட அனுமதிக்க மாட்டார்கள் ..கோவிலில் நிச்சயம் செய்யக்கூடாது என்பது common sense என்றே நினைக்கிறேன்.. இருந்தாலும் இவ்வாறு செய்வதற்கோ செய்யக்கூடாது என்பதற்கோ சாஸ்திர விதிகள் உள்ளனவா ? இருந்தால் இவ்விதிமுறைகளைத் தர முடியுமா?
-ஶ்ரீனி

Mr. Sreenivasan,

Ungal aadhangam purigiradhu, but indha country la we have to be practical.. there are so many who come to the temple from other cities and sometimes travel long distances and have other commitments etc.. so the temples have the practice of distributing food after offering a small container to the gods..

Usually if it is a big celebration,, I have seen the prasad being offered only after the abhishegam and Neivedhyam in the Pittsburgh and New jersey temples.

 

[Nara]

. so the temples have the practice of distributing food after offering a small container to the gods..

No, the problem is not a small container is offered and then distribution takes place. The problem is, a small container is set aside and even before it could be offered the distribution begins. This is what OP is objecting.

Of course we have to be practical, and if I may add, rational, which means we need to reject the whole thing. What is it about bathing a statue, dressing it up, and offering food to it? But, if one professes to be theistic and believe in all this stuff, then, to be practical is to be hypocritical. Being practical in this way is like saying, சோத்துல என்னவோ இருக்கு, தள்ளிவிட்டுட்டு எடு.

Why can't they have two separate cooking areas, one for public distribution and one for religious purposes, that may be considered practical without diluting the much wonted principles?

The problem is, all these temples are run by people with giant size egos. The priests are viewed as their employees, and priests act accordingly. They are ready to do anything demanded of them. So, the whole thing is a big farce.

In the U.S. temples are meant for socializing. If you want to observe tradition you need to do it at home, don't expect the temple to observe any.

Cheers!

 

[rsreenivasan]

சில வருடங்களுக்கு முன்பே இதைக் கூறி பெருமாள் திருமஞ்சனம்/ஆரத்தி, முடியும்வரை காத்திருக்க முடியாது என்று நீங்கள் அடம் பிடிப்பீர்களென்றால் நைவேத்யத்துக்கு அனுப்பாதீர்கள் என்று கூறி, அதைக் கடைப்பிடித்து வந்தார்கள்.. இப்போது திடீரென்று மறுபடி ஆரம்பித்து விட்டார்கள்.. நிச்சயமாக போர்டிற்கு கம்ப்ளெயிண்டாகக் கொடுக்க விரும்புகிறேன். அதற்கு supporting references இருந்தால் நன்றாக இருக்குமே என்று தான் பார்த்தேன்.

எல்லாரும் இங்கு கூறியுள்ளது போல் அட்ஜஸ்ட் செய்து போகலாம் தான்.ஆனால் இது வெறும் அட்டூழியமாகவே எனக்குப் படுகிறது..

நேரில் பேசிப் பார்த்து விட்டேன்.. எங்கள் முடிவு இது தான்.. அமெரிக்காவில் எல்லாக் கோவில்களும் இப்படித்தான் செய்கிறார்கள் அது படியே நாங்களும் செய்கிறோம்.. என்று பதில் வருகிறது.. Thats why I wanna provide them with something in writing..

-SR

 

[rsreenivasan]

//outside india are tired of interfrerence by 'know alls' from india, talking about acharam and all that.

if you are that keen on following acharam, you should not have crossed the black waters in the first place//

I beg to differ with you on this.. First of all I am not a "know all".. I never claimed that. I think naivedhya food being held back until pooja is done is common sense. I feel this as a total disrespect to the Perumal. Apparently the board and the temple committee don't seem to think that way..

சாதாரணமாக வீட்டிலே கூட நைவேத்யம் ஆகாமல் நைவேத்ய உணவுகளைத் தொட விட மாட்டார்கள்.. கோவில் என்று வைத்து விட்டு அடிப்படையான விஷயங்களைக் கூடக் கடைப்பிடிக்கவில்லையேன்றால், இது கோவிலாக அல்ல , வெறும் எக்சிபிஷனாகத்தான் இருக்கும்....கடல் கடந்து வந்தததானால் அடிப்படை வழக்கங்களில் விட்டு வீழ்ச்சிகள் இருக்கக் கூடாது என்பதே எனது எண்ணம்..

 

[rsreenivasan]

Govinda,

Yes, I did enquire verbally about this and got a pretty rude reply that " This is how the committee has decided and this is how we are going to do it". Apparently, other people have raised this issue also.

Hence I am trying to get some kind of written complaint to them. I am looking for some kind of supporting reference to go with it.

Thanks,

-SR

 

[rsreenivasan]

//so the temples have the practice of distributing food after offering a small container to the gods.. // Absolutely, I understand that. The priests cook a little serving of plain rice, dhal & ghee separately and that definitely is being offered as Primary Naivedhyam to Perumal. All I tried to discuss with them was that if they want Pongal, Puliyodharai etc for sale purpose, then they can very well proceed with that. They don't have to send them for Naivedhyam. We do have other stuff for Naivedhyam. If they do, they better wait.

Do you have any contact person in Pittsburgh temple whom I can call and confirm this ? I am getting a push back here that they have already consulted other temples and everyone is following this way.

Thanks,

-SR

 

[Subhalakshmi]

What I wrote is not to say that the practice of offering a little to the gods happens, I re checked with my friend who does run her own temple, where I was one of the trustees, I know none of the south Indian temples in NJ do that.. the prasadam is distributed only after it has been offered.. I am not quite sure of the practice of the other state temples.. There is usually a canteen and they serve food there.

I do agree that the temple is run by people with a lot of ego, but at the same time, is it not true that every religious institution is run that way, it all depends who has the power, by the way, when did the priests have power in a temple, India or abroad???? that was in the olden days.

People do go for socializing either it is in India or abroad, but you can't completely reject the idea that people go to the temple because they want to not to just to socialize..

 

[Nara]

Yes, I did enquire verbally about this and got a pretty rude reply that " This is how the committee has decided and this is how we are going to do it". Apparently, other people have raised this issue also.

Dear SR, I am sorry to say, it seems you have no standing. You should know that in the U.S. it is the committee that runs the temple. Most committee members carry huge chip on their shoulders. The priests from India are invariably economic refugees, not unlike most of us, they are keen to humor their bosses, you can't blame them.

So, if you don't like it you have to lump it. If you can't lump it, stay home, nobody is forcing you to go a temple that is nothing but an exhibition. On the other hand, if you like the experience of visiting this temple, then, I think you need to take it easy, let them be blind to their apacharas, just learn to enjoy the experience that makes you want to come back.

There is one temple in U.S. that prides itself as not having succumbed to compromises, and that temple is Sri Ranganatha Temple of Pamona, NY. You may google this temple and talk to them, but I must caution you, even that temple makes compromises, only that they keep them under wraps while talking up their fidelity. Be fairly warned, the patron saint of that temple is an alpha-male in all senses of the term.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

...Do you have any contact person in Pittsburgh temple whom I can call and confirm this ?

SR, as far as I am aware, Pittsburgh has two kitchens, one for formal offering and one for sales to public.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

, by the way, when did the priests have power in a temple, India or abroad???? that was in the olden days...

Dear Subhalakshmi, please do not take this as opposing you, I don't wish that in a million years, but, please permit me to submit to you, in India, tradition trumps everything else, even the most revered Acharyas of popular Mathams have any standing in this matter.

The temple priests in India may not have any say on how the hundi collection is spent or other administrative matters, but when it comes to religious practices like when food cooked in Thirumadappalli is served to the general public, they do have the ultimate authority, and not a single devotee visiting the temple with reverence will have it any other way.

best regards ....

 

[kunjuppu]

//outside india are tired of interfrerence by 'know alls' from india, talking about acharam and all that.

if you are that keen on following acharam, you should not have crossed the black waters in the first place//

I beg to differ with you on this.. First of all I am not a "know all".. I never claimed that. I think naivedhya food being held back until pooja is done is common sense. I feel this as a total disrespect to the Perumal. Apparently the board and the temple committee don't seem to think that way..

சாதாரணமாக வீட்டிலே கூட நைவேத்யம் ஆகாமல் நைவேத்ய உணவுகளைத் தொட விட மாட்டார்கள்.. கோவில் என்று வைத்து விட்டு அடிப்படையான விஷயங்களைக் கூடக் கடைப்பிடிக்கவில்லையேன்றால், இது கோவிலாக அல்ல , வெறும் எக்சிபிஷனாகத்தான் இருக்கும்....கடல் கடந்து வந்தததானால் அடிப்படை வழக்கங்களில் விட்டு வீழ்ச்சிகள் இருக்கக் கூடாது என்பதே எனது எண்ணம்..

sreeni,

just look at your statements above. if it is not full of 'knowing all' and finding 'fault' with what is practised in the usa, i dont know what it is.

had you atleast accepted the fact, that the wind here at the perumal temples flow differently, and not to your liking, i would accept it. instead, i see a smack of arrogance here - you seem to say that when dealing with your god, what you say is right, and not what the temples in usa practises.

and you have govinda playing second fiddle here, implying impurity on all fellow indians. such racist attitudes, and you are beneficiary of that.

i would be ashamed sir.

on top of that, nothing worse, than folks sticking with you for the wrong reasons.

if you dont like what is practised in the temples, stay at home. dont be another sankarraman.

 

[Subhalakshmi]

No no I did not think like that Mr. Nara, please, I was trying to appease Mr. Sreenivasan's worries.. personally I believe god or whatever the power is within us will embrace us no matter what, if we are true to our own consciousness and be good people, I do respect other people's beliefs and feel that he has a right to talk to the management but at the same time, I know he was also informed wrongly about practice in every temple in the US..

I felt that the priests have no say in much only because how I have seen some temples run.. anyway..

I hope for Mr. Sreenivasan's sake things change in the temple he worships..

 

[Subhalakshmi]

by the way, the Ranganatha temple is another story I just don't agree with the guy I forget his name who is fanatic.. sorry I have had a very bad experience and he is such an ego maniac.. and has eyes all over.. I have never visited the temple, but heard it is beautiful and a complete Iyengar temple.... this is the first in the US I think..

 

[rsreenivasan]

// I know none of the south Indian temples in NJ do that.. the prasadam is distributed only after it has been offered.// Thats great! I am going to go back take it up to them once again..

//when did the priests have power in a temple, India or abroad????// That is true. In this matter even though I am a little perturbed that the Priests have not set their foot down one matters like these, their take is that they are being overruled( in general when they opine on matters)..

Thanks,
-SR

 

[rsreenivasan]

Yes. Pomona temple is beautiful, I visited the temple in 2009. I have also heard that they strictly adhere to the standards.

 

[rsreenivasan]

I never said they have to run the temple as I say. It is not arrogance to present my opinions.. I very well know that If I want to run a temple very much to my wishes, then I will have to build my own. I am not talking about that.

Temple is built and maintained by collective collaborative effort. It cannot be run on whim and fancies of a bunch of people. Just because they "are committee" doesnt give them a right to just about do anything they want to. It is still Hindu Temple. I believe Hindu temple has to be run as per Hindu Traditions.

I don't see how me wanting a Hindu Temple to follow general Hindu Temple procedures and aacharams is being a Racist.

 

[Nara]

...Just because they "are committee" doesnt give them a right to just about do anything they want to. It is still Hindu Temple. I believe Hindu temple has to be run as per Hindu Traditions.

Sorry SR, they do have the right to run the temple the way they want to just because they "are committee". That is just the way it is in the U.S., and in India too I think, just as long as it is a new temple sans any old tradition.

If you believe a Hindu temple has to be run as per what you hold to be Hindu Traditions, then you just have to build one yourself, like the fellow who built the Panoma temple, a beautiful one in your opinion, but one run by an egomaniac in the opinion of someone who lives much closer to the temple (NJ) than you (St. Louis).

SR, believe me, I do understand how you feel, but your approach is not healthy, I think. In this country, and in India as well I think, if you can't put up, i.e. put up some significant $, you have got to shut up. Sorry my friend, that is just the way it is.

If you ask me, I won't hold it against you if you don't, all this theism leads to such nonsense. I invite you to the realm that is free of all this nonsense, religion, god and such. I promise you will feel real peace, love, compassion and all that is wholesome towards our fellow human beings just because they exist as we do.

Welcome everyone!!

Cheers!

 

[rsreenivasan]

Nara, Im sorry, I was replying to Kunjuppu. Should have quoted in the reply..

-ஶ்ரீனி

 

[sarang]

Temple managements do interfere in all affairs of the temple. In srirangam, viswarupam seva was cancelled to extend darshan hours; was started after some protests, after a 3 day break. In tirupathy, 1000 pillar mandapam and old muts were destroyed to clear space around the temple. I am not sure whether the 1000 pillar mandapam is relocated.


As more devotees have to be fed now, it is preferable t have a madappali for offering and a mod, efficient kitchen for distribution. Prasadams sold to pilgrims in most of the big temples is supplied by contractors. One has to go to small and less crowded temples where these are strictly followed.

 

[Nara]

One has to go to small and less crowded temples where these are strictly followed.

sarang, I wish this was so. In less crowded temples, the priests don't even show up at the appointed time. Many years ago I visited Thirumandangudi, the birth place of none other than revered Thondaradippodi Azhvar. The locals informed me that the priest comes only once everyday, that too not for sure, and advised us to just go around the temple and get going.

There was another temple, one among the 108 Dhivya desams, one that is "less crowded" to the extent not many people care to visit, when we arrived the priest was sitting in a tea shop enjoying a cup of tea.

They say we must not look too deep into the origins of rivers or rishees, this is true for temple anushtanam as well.

Cheers!