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New threats to Hinduism.

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Dear Saab Ji,

You said:

"Hindus have portrayed those who have sought refuge in our country as 'Adhithi Devas'. This exalted religion is under attack by those who hold secularism and pseudo-secularism as their religion. The Congress-communists coalition that is the bane of our country is killing our Gods. We should not rest until these demons are vanquished."

Can you please explain, in your opinion, who the 'psudo-secularists' are as aopposed to who the 'secularists' are? How does this story about Ms. Taslima in anyway affect our religion? How is rhe coalition 'killing our gods' by this action?

Pranams,
KRS
 
Dear Sri KRSji,

Unfortunately you wish to take the focus away from the fact that Ms. Taslima Nasreen was hounded by the Communist rulers in West Bengal who incited the Muslims to hound her out and that the Congress rulers in Delhi kept her prisoner in a room without adequate health care and denying her her fundamental rights to meet with people. Any normal person would be seething in anger at the maltreatment of a refugee woman. But you are more anxious about something else. For me the Communists and the crypto communists who mouth secularism and pseudo secularism are anti-nationals and anti-Hindus and anti-Brahmins. As I said before you and I are poles apart. Let's not turn this forum into a personal fight arena. The entire membership of the forum knows you and I differ fundamentally on every issue even though I tried to pick where we see eye to eye but it doesn't seem to matter. So please do not ask me to answer your questions. You post your views and I post mine and let others post theirs and the people are intelligent enough to know the truth.

Regards,
Saab
 
Without comments:

EVIL MACHINATIONS – A FAIZUR RAHMAN – TNIE 19/3/08

It is amusing to read Rahman’s reference to the
killing of thousands of Samanars by the Hindus in the
7th century. What is the actual story? During the
reign of Pandian kings,there was a debate between
Hindu scholars and Jain scholars on the greatness of
the respective religions. The Samanars themselves put
the condition that the losers in the debate, must be
hanged. When Samanars lost the debate, the then
Pandian king hanged the samanar scholars who
participated in the debate. Where is the question of
genocide or mass killings? Whether thousands of
Samanar scholars would have participated in the
debate? Full details of this incident can be seen
from the works of eminent historian and journalist,
K.C.Lakshminarayan and from the speeches and notings
of Guru Maha Sannidhanam Shri Shri Shanmuga Desika
Gnanasambanda Paramacharya Swamigal.

What Albureni, the Mugal historian who accompanied
Gazni Mohammed had written?.According to him, the
mugals destroyed the temples and massacred the
infidels on the basis of the tenets of Islam
religion. After destructing Hindu temples, Gazni
Mohammed used to pray for purification of his soul.
Whether Albureni is wrong according to Rahman? Can
Rahman show one instance where a Hindu king destroyed
a jain temple or a mosque on the basis of the tenets
of hindu religion?

Let us forget, Goutier for a moment. Who was
responsible for the massacre and ethnic cleansing of
hinuds in Kashmir? Why the muslims kept quiet when
Hussain made pornographic drawings out of Hindu Gods
and Goddesses? Why the same muslims all over India
protested over Danish cartoons?

Again U.N. Human Rights Commission in its 1981 report
said that the genocide in Bangladesh was the worst in
the history. According to Bangla Desh human rights
activist Jahanara Imam, hindus were butchered at the
rate of 6000 to 12000 per day, thro’ 267 days (please
refer to page 20 of the book, Bangladesh Decoded by
R.N.P. Singh). He estimates that even if the lowest
figure was taken, the massacre of hindus could be in
the region of 1.5 million to 2 million.

Again, according to Saleem Samad, journalist and human
rights observer, with the normal rate of population
growth, the Hindu population in Bangladesh in 1991
should have been 32.5 million. The actual population
is only 12.5 million. By this calculation, the number
of Hindus missing from Bangladesh, ending 1991, is
already 20 million – ethnic cleansing, genocide and
conversion (please refer to page 89 of the same book).
He further adds that the hindu community had been
systematically robbed of their house and shops and
lands, systematically slaughtered and in some places,
hindus were painted with yellow H for easy
identification. Will this promote hindu – muslim
amity?

Again, the Human Rights report says that the
population of hindus in Pakistan has come down to less
than 1% from 19% of the pre-partition days. Genocide,
ethnic-cleansing and conversion.

If correct is history is told, the hindu – muslim
problem will be solved for ever and that is the reason
why the vote-bank pseudo secularists are distorting
history.

Thanking you,

Yours sincerely

N.Mohan
42-4 canal road, thiruvanmiyur,chennai41 19/3/08
 
A secularism that’s not

Wed, 19 Mar, 2008,04:12 PM​
. Lajja means shame.


And it is a feeling that India should be overcome with as Taslima Nasreen, the controversial Bangladeshi author who wrote that famous Bengali novel with the same title, has decided to move out in the light of continued hounding by Islamic radicals.

. The writer, whose Lajja had incensed the mullahs and Muslim fundamentalists so much, was forced to live in hiding in India too, after she found the going very hot in her home country Bangladesh.

It is debatable whether India should have given asylum to her in the first place. But once she was here, and India, having talked in such high falutin terms about the need to uphold freedom of expression, had an ethical duty in ensuring the silence of the radical and rabid elements that were baying for her blood.

Taslima’s case clearly exposes the chicanery and the dangerous double standards of the Indian government and the so-called intelligentsia. The contrast with the curious predicament of M F Hussain is educative.

The nonagenarian brush-wielder is a classical agent provocateur, playing dangerous brinkmanship games with the sacred articles of faith creativity and secularism.

Hussain, to be sure, had the right to paint whatever he wanted to, and in whatever manner. Yet, he was no paragon of secularism as he chose to parade nakedly only Hindu symbols in contrast, his creative juices didn’t force him to paint either his mother or sister in the buff.

They were, as it happened, fully clothed in the true traditions of Islamic beliefs. In short, though his skills on the canvas were special, his so-called creativity was dubious.

And when he was put under the harsh searchlight for that, the touch-me-not painter scooted away to a foreign locale and bleated about being targetted by ‘Hindu fanatics’. The self-anointed liberals and the Commies of this country also made themselves hoarse by saying that Hindu zealots were hemming in from all directions.

Alas, the same group is maintaining an undignified silence in the Taslima Nasreen case. And that, sirs, is the nub of the issue.

For all their grand declarations of upholding India’s secular credentials and fulfilling the constitutional obligations of the state, the Congress-led UPA Government and the shrill intelligentsia of this country stand exposed for their cowardice in the face of Islamist belligerence and Marxist opportunism.

Despite its promise, made in Parliament, to protect and shelter Taslima, the Government has moved in the opposite direction. Taslima was crudely forced into solitary confinement in a ‘safe house’ and denied of medical care.

In the event, there was little surprise in she being reduced to a psychological wreck and forced to flee. It is the fate of unwanted and unwelcome guests. Taslima was not India’s baby, but she represents, and also symbolises, the deeper malaise of the Indian State secularism that is not actually secularism.

http://newstodaynet.com/newsindex.php?id=5994%20&%20section=13
 
Dear Sri Saab Ji,

If you post your comments in this Forum, I would assume that you know that others have every right to ask for explanations and clarifications as well as to post their considered opinions.

I asked two very straightforward questions. Instead of answering them with simple answers, you are flying off the handle about the polarity of our views. If you mean what you say about each of us having the right to post here, then you should also think that each of us has the right to ask for explanations.

I do want people to understand who do you mean by 'secularists' and how this issue within the muslim community affect us as Hindus? You have given a partial answer, but not a complete answer. But then the relevant answer to my question is that we condemn the actions of the psedo-secularists, which are clearly against the interests of the majority muslim community and not against the interests of Hindus per se. What we can definitely say that their actions are against the interests of all Indians.

I agree that the treatment of this brave lady by both the state government and the central government is shameful and must be condemned as against all the secular principles I know. What I do not understand is, how does this become a Hindu issue, and how is 'they are killing our gods' comment related to this issue?

To view every action of the pseudo-secularists through the prism of Hinduism does not serve the interests of anyone, in my opinion. This is why I asked my simple questions, so that you can clarify your views.

Pranams,
KRS






Dear Sri KRSji,

Unfortunately you wish to take the focus away from the fact that Ms. Taslima Nasreen was hounded by the Communist rulers in West Bengal who incited the Muslims to hound her out and that the Congress rulers in Delhi kept her prisoner in a room without adequate health care and denying her her fundamental rights to meet with people. Any normal person would be seething in anger at the maltreatment of a refugee woman. But you are more anxious about something else. For me the Communists and the crypto communists who mouth secularism and pseudo secularism are anti-nationals and anti-Hindus and anti-Brahmins. As I said before you and I are poles apart. Let's not turn this forum into a personal fight arena. The entire membership of the forum knows you and I differ fundamentally on every issue even though I tried to pick where we see eye to eye but it doesn't seem to matter. So please do not ask me to answer your questions. You post your views and I post mine and let others post theirs and the people are intelligent enough to know the truth.

Regards,
Saab
 
Dear Sri KRSji,

If you post your comments in this Forum, I would assume that you know that others have every right to ask for explanations and clarifications as well as to post their considered opinions.
You of course can use your right and ask for what you want and my response would always be based on my perception of the efficacy of engaging anyone in discussion either at all times or at any specific one. I merely used my discretion.

My perception of you is that you view everything with secular glasses considering all religions as equal and everyone as equal yet unwilling to see that this view is not shared by Muslims or Christians. Muslims have hounded those who do not belong to their religion as kafirs and even to this day none of them have disowned this basic edict of their religion. The Christians believe that there is no hope for man other than through Christ and a Christian can disagree with this only at the risk of being ex-communicated. The Jews think they alone are the chosen people while others are not and only good feature about them is that they are not crazy to convert others to their religion. But these are OK with you while you wait to pounce on any defensive Hindu (who is being chased by these religionists to convert him and distroy his Dharma) when he highlights the faults of those religionists that affect us. You would suddenly wish to divide them into your imaginary category of good and bad ones among them. For me all of them would be good ONLY if they give up the idea that Hindus are sinners and have to be converted.

Your actions are your choice and I am not making any judgement on these. You have a right to do the karma of your choice. For us of the left behind Hindus who still instinctively see through our dhaarmic perception, Indian Nationalism tickles, Hinduism inspires and Brahminism is our pride, have something to defend that you would not.

I have to add, I might have different discretion for other posters according to my perception of them. I should admit that such perception of them are mutually very cordial.

Thanks,
Saab
 
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Dear Sri Saab Ji,

Again I asked for specific explanations and what I get is the most unenlightened and inaccurate perceptions about other religions. With one broad stroke after another you make statements that are untrue and diminish other religions. Let me explain:

1. Conversions in Christianity is practiced mainly by two denominations: Catholics and the conservative evangelicals. But there are discussions going on in both of these communities about the efficacy and correctness of conversions. You seem to condemn ALL Christians. World Council of Churches, which represent about half a billion christians around the world actually eschews conversion nowadys and is actively seeking ways as to how to coexist with other religions in the world. I wish you know more about what is going on in this community before you condemn.

2. Jews' tradition is that one is a born jew through the mother. And when you with derision say that they are 'the chosen people' you perpetuate a common myth based on what the term connotes. It does not say that they are chosen to be somehow superior, bur rather they were chosen to bear the burden of world's ills. Like the mistake about Brahmins the world over, this mis conception also is effectively used by these unfortunate peoples' distractors all over the world.

3. There are sects in Islam that abhor the word 'kafir' and it's connotations. But in practice, especially in India, majority of the educated muslims do not give credence to this term. But the way Islam spread about, this term and it's meaning are not fully eschewed, except for a few forward thinking muslims. Islam is in the throes of becoming modern and as long as they are prevented from converting anyone forcefully anywhere where secularism prevails, I am sure this religion comes up with proper ways to coexist peacefully with others.

Thank God, our religion has no equivalent of a Pope and you are such a Pope. If it does, anyone who marries a non Hindu (I guess Dr. Subramanian Swamy will also qualify, I suspect) will be thrown out of the religion! Any Hindu who becomes a citizen of any other country will be declared a non Hindu!

These are all personal, indecent attacks, Sri Saab Ji. Who died in the Hindu kingdom and made you the king to make such incredibly uncivilzed base remarks? I am ashamed, not for myself, but for my great religion which even has the capacity to generate such a vile blind hate in a person!

Secularism is not communalism, sir. You seem to be off your rockers with these comments!

Pranams,
KRS


Dear Sri KRSji,

You of course can use your right and ask for what you want and my response would always be based on my perception of the efficacy of engaging anyone in discussion either at all times or at any specific one. I merely used my discretion.

My perception of you is that you view everything with secular glasses considering all religions as equal and everyone as equal yet unwilling to see that this view is not shared by Muslims or Christians. Muslims have hounded those who do not belong to their religion as kafirs and even to this day none of them have disowned this basic edict of their religion. The Christians believe that there is no hope for man other than through Christ and a Christian can disagree with this only at the risk of being ex-communicated. The Jews think they alone are the chosen people while others are not and only good feature about them is that they are not crazy to convert others to their religion. But these are OK with you while you wait to pounce on any defensive Hindu (who is being chased by these religionists to convert him and distroy his Dharma) when he highlights the faults of those religionists that affect us. You would suddenly wish to divide them into your imaginary category of good and bad ones among them. For me all of them would be good ONLY if they give up the idea that Hindus are sinners and have to be converted.

Dear KRSji, you have forgone Indian Citizenship, married a Jew and moved away from the mainstream Hindu. Your actions are your choice and I am not making any judgement on these. You have a right to do the karma of your choice. For us of the left behind Hindus who still instinctively see through our dhaarmic perception, Indian Nationalism tickles, Hinduism inspires and Brahminism is our pride, have something to defend that you would not.

I have to add, I might have different discretion for other posters according to my perception of them. I should admit that such perception of them are mutually very cordial.

Thanks,
Saab
 
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OK, are you now happy that you had said what you wanted to say?

As I said before my discretion has kicked in. I will not respond to you for it will be unpleasant and the forum is not to be polluted with such things. But I will continue to post my views that I consider to be of concern to the Brahmins (as I did about Dhikshitars) and of the Hindus (as I did on the attack by the DMK on the exhibition on Aurangazeb) and on what would affect the nation (as I did on the budget) and I am sure you would do so too.

I know you are the guardian of other religions in this forum from the 'hoards of Hindu fundamentalists' that I and others have been branded by you. However I ask you to please accept this position of mine for I will not leave the forum like others did. I am a proud Tamil Brahmin and there are lot like me out there who would like to use this forum with grateful thanks to Praveenji who I beleive started this forum for the benefit and defense of Tamil Brahmins and Hindus and not to serve as a commentary on the Tamil Brahmins.

If you are a gentleman you would not post anything addressed to me. I assure you I will not post addressed to you even under grave provocation.

Regards,
Saab
 
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Without Comments:

INDIA’S INTELLECTUAL ZOMBIES

Dr. Babu Suseelan

For centuries Hindu society has been active in producing intellectuals, philosophers, psychologists, scientists, political theorists, artists, poets, spiritual leaders and life scientists. Islamic invasion, Christian colonialism, destruction of Sanskrit education and Marxist influence had a disastrous influence on Hindu society. The social and psychological conditioning suffered by Hindus lead frequently to the erosion of cultural identity and the depersonalization of individuals. It is therefore, not surprising that the production of intellectuals dwindled. The repercussions of long period of Islamic oppression and colonization , in the wake of social and cultural disintegration and the trauma suffered by Hindus as a whole, persist even today. Everybody seem to agree that Hindu civilization is now facing a crisis. Entrenched forces from within and without have joined together to de-structure or destroy our thoughts , beliefs, practices and values.

Hinduism has never been a unified, monolithic movement and there has been a great deal of disagreement among Hindus as to how to protect themselves and their interests. There are several Hindu spiritual organizations, and cultural movements in different parts of India. Unfortunately politically, spiritual movements has not resulted in an overreaching Hindu strategy in politics, in the media, in academics, and other areas of social-political life.

It is time for Hindus to join together, to discover its causes and to assume the responsibility of formulating a solution. It is time to rally our values, our self-esteem and fight for our moral ideals with full, righteous confidence. The intellectual group is one that manifests a collective capacity for dealing with the wide-ranging needs and problems in national life. Intellectuals of a nation are expected to maintain connections with the country's past culture, present social, economic, and political groups and concerns itself with renewing and maintaining internal strengths. But this is not what we see today in India. In India, the anti-Hindu mafia has become the ‘gate keepers’ of Indian minds. The anti-Hindu intellectual zombies have entrapped the members in a servitude and set in motion a malignant process by creating powerlessness in the majority communities. They join together with our enemies from within and without to demean and discredit the culture, and its perennial philosophy that sustains the social bonds for centuries. Our intellectual zombies are competing with our enemies to make Hindus more powerless and prevent them from acquiring skills and self-esteem to regain lost strength and acclaim. Indeed, the greatest threat to India and Hindus today is the political opportunism of the phony secular intellectuals who are inclined to promote Islamo fascism and dismissing or understating internal and external threats. If we ask our moral relativists, agnostics, secularists, liberals and media pundits--they will come up with sticky puddle of stale syrup of tolerance, love, global programs, universalism, and coexistence with Jihadi terrorists, Marxist murderers and crusaders. India’s intellectual zombies had become apologists for the Islamo fascists, Marxists and underground Maoists. They want to replace Hindu tradition, and its eclectic philosophy with the reductionist dogmas of Islam, Marxism and deconstruction. They have sold our nation for a price and joined with our adversaries and engage in ‘the socialization of the anti-social, or acculturation of the anti-cultural, or the legitimization of the subversive’ under the influence of modernism. Intellectual discourse is corrupted by moral relativism, leftist cultural criticism and subversive modernism. By blurring the lines between good and evil, right and wrong, spirituality and fanaticism, these intellectual zombies have rendered our society more vulnerable to evil influences. The general public are increasingly ill equipped to recognize, much less respond to, the evil forces that threatens India from within and without.

One of the tragic errors of India is that too many of its best minds believe as they did in the past-that the solution is to rely on more tolerance, inaction and passivity. They are neither humanist or nationalists. Their goal is to demolish Hindu values and to put barriers on Hindu spirituality and place as many obstacles as possible in the way of Hindutva. Their response against Islamic terrorism goes against the commonest of commonsense and only serve to protect anti nationalists. They are significantly out of touch with reality. Like most psychotic people they avoid complex social problems, afraid of decision making and promote policies that recommends tolerance of intolerant dogmas and their bizarre behavior. The exact opposite is true. What we need most urgently is to recognize that our tolerant culture cannot exist without a philosophy of confrontation of intolerant ideas.

Our present state of cultural disintegration and political oppression is maintained and prolonged by intellectual zombies, posturing as intellectual leaders. India’s intellectual zombies are living in a fantasy world embracing ‘all religions are the same’, and tolerance of intolerance is a positive virtue . They generally consist of frustrated, alienated and misguided intellectual zombies who serve as catalysts, inciting, and actualizing the prevalent sentiment of Hindu hatred. They also endorse extra privileges for Muslims and provide a sort of moral justification for Hindu oppression. These modern intellectual zombies have succeeded in misdirecting the public and have extinguished the flame of protest, and they have no answer to halt the triumphant advance of brute Jihadis and Marxist murderers. They have no answer to those voices demanding freedom from oppression, liberty from bogus secularism and reason from political idiosyncrasy.

FUMBLED STRATEGY

One of the greatest challenges facing our intellectuals today is objectively examining the roots of the present social-political-pathology and malady afflicting Hindu society and developing a strategy that will lead to a lasting solution of our predicament. The inability to grasp the roots of Islamic terrorism, coercive religious conversion and social disturbances is the result of moral relativism, agnosticism and non-judgmental attitude prominent in India’s liberal thought.

A political ideology directed by bogus secular political leaders whose purpose is to help and empower our enemies is deceptive. In India, these intellectual mafia’s commitment for Hindu bashing has reached a new pinnacle with the national ascendance of Italian born Sonia as the leader of the Congress party. The Congress party’s snobbery and insensitivity to Hindus has created a pseudo-secular culture whose leaders appear unwilling or unable to communicate with the majority Hindus. They are unable to communicate in the cultural language of the majority.

How should Hindus revitalize its strategy? Hindus must better educate and explain the Islamic threat to the general audience. Education at all levels should indicate Hindus in the history, philosophy, mechanics, virtues, responsibilities, and achievements of Hindus. Tolerance and diversity need not mean acceptance of oppression and tyranny. India’s intellectual zombies offer misbegotten solutions, ignore inconvenient facts and hide behind Islamic mafia and promote meaningless universalism. The universal pretensions cannot be used without addressing the proper scale of coercive religious conversion, psychological warfare by foreign agencies, subversive activities of anti-national groups and Jihadi terrorism. Instead of putting the blame where it belongs, India’s intellectual zombies, when confronted with social-political problems, invent fantasies to keep the public in darkness. Real problems confronting India and Hindus are too scary for intellectual zombies to comprehend.

Identifying with your adversary without proper reflection is an exaggerated tendency toward grandiosity. It is an expression of narcissism, one of the deepest wellsprings of India’s liberal tendencies towards unreality. The self-defeating belief system, lead to unreality-to the feelings that somehow Muslims will become fair-minded and do justice. India’s intellectual zombies are in self-delusion that virtually gets in the way of reality, clouding their judgments on important matters leading to bad decisions. Unreality, self-delusion, and denial are the hallmarks of their disease and treatment. It is a treatment in that it promotes adjustment to harsh reality of Islamic violence and terrorism. This treatment of escapism, denial, and self-blame are worse than the disease. It is this collective disease of India’s intellectual zombies, the unhealthy side of reality that is badly in need of treatment.

This liberal unreality, denial, escapism, appeasement and irrational tolerance is narcotic. While each dose ‘cures’ the pain of harsh reality or previous abuse, it further strengthen the disease. Escape from reality, and hiding behind a thick wall of denial, may provide India’s intellectual zombies a brief respite from cruel reality of Islamic atrocities and promote a false adjustment to the cruel world of Islamists. But it is not a true or effective cure for Islamic brutality, hostility and demand for extra privileges.

(contd.)
 
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INDIA’S INTELLECTUAL ZOMBIES (contd.)




The most human quality we have is our ability to conceptualize, rationalize and act. As a nation, our greatest hope for improving ourselves and becoming better is to use our mind and capacity to think. It takes intellectual capacity to think and makes change for the better. Why, even after physical independence, Indians shape their reality, interpret or appraise events to please their long term oppressors and tormentors? Why intellectuals shape their thought to justify evil deeds of Muslims, Marxists and phony secularists? Why they downplay external threats or turn off unpleasant internal disturbances created by anti-national elements? It is strange that alienated intellectuals, leftist academicians and phony secularists develop an unconscious cravings and urges to feel good, to feel wonderful or to feel exalted delight in front of adversaries and tormentors. They restructure their thoughts and develop self-defeating behaviors to please their oppressors. They have limited intellectual competencies to handle conflicts and social problems created by Islamic fascists, subversive agents, and psychological warfare operatives. It is difficult for them to assertively handle social conflicts or to say ‘no’ to social pressure to participate in self-destructive behaviors. They often lack the skills to question unhealthy and disastrous policies and activities of our enemies.

For any dangerous social or political challenge or problem situation, India’s intellectual zombies come up with automatic anti Hindu thoughts including blame game. These automatic Hindu blame game that pop up quickly are not rational or evaluative in nature. This self-destructive behavior of intellectual zombies is reinforced by few bread crumbs thrown at them, and few applauses by Jihadis, subversive agents and the bogus secular crowd.

WHAT IS TO BE DONE?

The intellectual zombies that champions the adversary culture now dominate the cultural establishments-the publishing houses, media, museums, book publications, government public relations, television, theater, the cinema, the academia, and the national educational institutions. They promote cultural-moral relativism and mindless universalism. This ‘relativism of truth and values’ has corrupted the moral character of India. India’s phony intellectuals and bogus secular politicians are not attuned to the values of freedom, equality, individual rights, spiritual culture, peace, progress and justice. These alienated, self-serving intellectuals are no longer committed to liberty, fairness, equal opportunity, openness and prosperity. They are busy promoting freedom for Islamic tyrants, strengthening conversion gangs and assisting subversive groups. Silencing of Hindus and the suppression of all inclusive, tolerant, and uplifting Hindu ideas is their pastime.

Hindu organizations should identify Hindu intellectuals and channel resources toward formulating and promoting Hindu vision of public policy. Hindu intellectuals should penetrate community intellectual institutions such as journals, theater companies, study groups, book publishers, electronic media and music clubs. Vital intellectual institutions should be established to create a culture that thinks critically and discuss ideas and philosophies that shape government policies, education and social policy.

Pseudo secular forces have joined with our enemies to restrict the terms of public debate. Hindu intellectuals should address specific issues and concerns that cut across Hindu communities around the globe. In the public sphere, the culture and values of the pluralistic, all inclusive Hindu values should help fashion public policies and political goals.
 
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Dear Sri Praveen!

My respects to your efforts in creating this forum, to voice the concerns of our community, it needs great courage to do this kind of task. The practical side of running this kind of forum is abound with many unforeseen results - Good things can happen as well as vice versa could also happen. Truly it is a self-less , praise worthy effort. My sincere appreciation and congratulations.

Just some words by His Holiness Swami Dayananda Saraswati... for your kind considerations.

"The new religions doesn't appear peacefuly without harming anything, It destroys, strangulates the native culture, religion to establish itself. "

It will be very obvious , if you looked at the land these religions established , there is no room for other religions.

Our is a native culture, the house may not look in order, that doesn't mean others can occupy our house. We should not make that happen. We can't allow others to collapse the house simply because we preceive it is in dis-order.

You have given me and other members to express ourself freely, even though that may not be sitting well with what you and your team members value. My heart-felt thanks to you and your team members.

Regards

malgova.mango


.
 
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Without comments

india_1835.jpg
 
some perspectives

In these fast moving times, our community has handled the changes, as to what is best for each of us.

We do not have a broad based community ‘way’ of doing things. To each his own, has been our norm. Not sure if this will change in the foreseeable future.

We have indeed prospered, and it is my guess, that barring the commercial marwaris/jains, we, the tamil Brahmins, are among the most prosperous communities in India with a strong stable middle class base. We have our poor, but not so much in numbers or percentage of our group.

This may not be necessarily so for other Brahmins in India, but those have different perspectives and circumstances, and need not be our domain of reference, for the purpose of this post.

But, we do have challenges….

In any democracy, one man one vote is the norm. the rule of the majority prevails. We as a number are dwindling. This due to emigration and low birth rates. The fact is that we are not replacing ourselves in absolute numbers or as a percentage of the population.

Maybe there has been a serious discussion about our low birth rate, and at this point, not replacing our numbers in India in this forum? I do not know. But it may be a good topic to discuss. How do we see our community in 20 years?

Within the framework of this reality, how can those of us who are still in India, manoeuvre to get its due share of state aid to the weaker sections of our community ie group like the chavundis, with whom most of us disdain to associate, but through classification, are one of us?

I feel that our rich & middle class will get by, but our poor will be hurt. And hurt badly, both financially and emotionally, and become easy prey to purveyors of bitterness induced violence.

There may be a perceived loss of leadership among us. Or even an absence of one. There has been calls for revival of Hinduism under the leadership of Tamil Brahmins. I detect these underpinnings in this forum, in several threads.

To be a leader, you need followers. In order to win followers, whose numbers have to come from outside the Brahmin community, in order to make some significant impact, what do we have to offer the others?

Many things that are anathema to us such as reservation, priesthood for all castes, Tamil in temples, belief in the division of castes etc. are the very issues, where there is a diametrically opposite view which is popular among the masses. What can we do to counter it? Do we even comprehend the depth of the feelings of other castes?

This is the age of egalitarianism and empowerment of the disenfranchised. Any cause which is not rooted in these maxims may have a problem making any headway.

We come to our own personal beliefs and orthodoxy. The ideal Brahmin with knowledge of Vedas and scripture, not pursuing the material wealth is as rare as the dodo bird. We are involved in secular positions with an ambition burning to get ahead in life, earn wealth and comfort. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is the norm of today and should be accepted without guilt or misgivings.

In the context of the above, each of us are practising (or not) our heritage to our level of our own comfort and convenience. This is a personal preference, and let it be so respected.

Without numbers in a democracy, there is no influence. As it stands it is the vote that counts. We need to come up with a strategy, on a broad basis, to align ourselves with winning groups, based on our interests. An ideal position would be, irrespective of party in power, we have a vested interest with those in power. This needs some Machiavellian skills.

We alone are isolated in the political spectrum. I think we have sufficient wherewithal to offer in terms of participation, but sometimes, I feel that we are politically naive. No political party is willing to associate with tamil Brahmins as a group as we are a source of embarrassment to them. Why?

Political savvy as exhibited by other groups including Christians, Muslims, has been lacking among Tamil Brahmins. Our high profile members, like Cho, Hindu Ram etc, are often on a pedestal, commenting on things that may be detrimental to the community.

Many a times, discretion, is the better part of valour. I think, silence on many issues which do not concern us, may be the best mode to deflect criticism. One example: Sri Lankan Tamils issue - there is a widespread perception among other tamils that our lot is with the sinhalas – for various reasons, which are outside the scope of this note. This tamil perception of us, is harming is in more ways than we can gauge.

How can we expect to live in Tamil Nadu, and prosper, if we have the rest of the Tamil community wishing us ill will? And our thinking is perceived as anti tamil? Do we have a serious public relations issue here? Is it the way we conduct ourselves as a community?

This situation will soon be applicable to the rest of India too, considering the proliferation of ideas and aspirations among the general populace of the other states.

There is also a tendency to support the extremes in these threads. Extremism has never been a solution. It only exacerbates and inflames the issues, causing violence and ultimate downfall. This has been the uniform result throughout time.

We as a community, are strangers to violence. It is best we continue to be so. We will not be able to handle the consequences of violent pogroms, for if we advocate violence, others can do the same to us. An incitement to kill another’s son or daughter, will in turn, cause the loss of our own sons and daughters. We sow what we reap.

Our next generation. We need to provide them a mental handle so that they can cheerfully and confidently navigate among the various tribes of India, with a feeling of mutual respect and regard.

Harping on our heritage, our loss of privilege, on merit based education, and railing against the quotas, only fills the young mind with distortions, which they are not capable of handling, and also perverts them from the true spirit of life and healthy living. Let us not damage our children’s minds or warp them to our prejudices, as these are not inborn, but taught.

Let us encourage group sports and physical health building in addition to our traditional focus of education. We will find our children better balanced than us, and better equipped to deal with a world, that we may not be able to relate to. Let us set them up for success.

Thank you for reading this. it is my take on these threads. I have no wish or intent to hurt anyone’s feelings and beliefs. To the best extent, I have kept this note as factual as I could, without personal preferences for the above observations. I do apologize should it be sounding pious, pompous or virtuous, as such interpretations will be furthest from my intent.

I do have limitations in the English language, and statements can be read with a context not at all intended here. Please give them your kinder interpretation and add a spoonful of sugar on top of that.

I do wish each of us well, and hope each finds his or her own way, to achieve their potential without undue stress and constraints imposed on themselves by themselves and the society in which they live. Stress kills.
 
Sabhash Kunjuppu for a very earnest and thoughtful posting! Your vicharam is very sincere. Quite a few statements that you have made are based on realities such as demography, sectism among Brahmins etc. which are challenges that can be overcome by education. The reason other castes come into confrontation with the Brahmins would ultimately be found to be economics. We should and we will have leadership ultimately to talk to other castes to find peaceful coexistence and find purushartha for each Hindu irrespective of his caste. You have kindled my thought process and I have so much to say.

I am trevelling for the next couple of days and when I get a break I will post some of my responses. I hope other members of this forum would also participate.

Regards,
Saab
 
Pardon the small digression here.

I dont have a problem with "some perspectives" except for the following :

a) A slimy suggestion that Brahmin parents inculcate "hatred" against other communities and "rile" against the "consciously anti-brahmin" moves of the Govt.

b) The next generation has to be "mentally prepared" to be "second class citizens". The choice of words are mine, but nevertheless, the import same.

My comments

a) If anything, Brahmins have been "silent sufferers". Most of the "stories" of Brahmin oppression of "so called low castes" are just that, viz, stories. Most of them are in any case exaggerated. At the same time, i am not "dismissing" instances of brahmin hegemony especially in religious matters which in my opinion were borne out of either "strict interpretation" of the scriptures or if i may daresay incorrect.

To portray brahmin parents as debauched is a position, i can never accept. If anything, Brahmin parents of today are "pushing" their wards by constantly reminding them that "education" is the only way to their salvation. Infact i daresay that the pressure on brahmin kids of today is conservatively twice that of wards from other communities.

b) This one takes the cake. I wonder, how does anyone explain a starry eyed kid that "This nation regards you as a second class citizen ; you have no right on the resources of the nation". How can the parents take up the onerous job of killing the aspiration of the kid ? How does one explain to him that "your grand father was an Engineer, your father is an Engineer ; we have had "enough" ; so aspire to become a janitor". If the kid questions 'why' how does one explain to him that "this is social justice as espoused by the great nation" and he should now learn to serve with a smile.

Let the country go to dogs ; Let the country be denied the services of a brahmin, because he is a god-dammit brahmin. Along with ushering a caste-less society, let us also usher in a "merit-less society". And then, India will be the "Super power" we all aspire it to be. Way to go !

How does one explain to the kid that he has to make way so that an OBC dodo can take his place. Mind you, i am not generalizing, for i know too well, that there are many many competent persons from every community. But how does one get "small big people" (kids) understand that he cannot pursue his dream because he was born in a condemned community. Quite an obnoxious way of getting a kid prepared to face life !
 
This thread is sounding to be interesting and worthy as I feel the participants have for goodness gracious come with their , heartsout !
I intend to participate with a few view points ....

Yes , I do agree that although there is so much of talk of " Threats to Hinduism ", you can get a big population optimisitic people saying , we shall survive , till the end !
It may be for the simple fact that ours is a harmless way of life with zero hatred towards our brothren practising other faiths . As long as we do not impose something on other 's and are satisfied with the available no.'s of temples , things should continue perfect as I believe the co-existence of various faiths has been tailor made by the Almighty GOD !
And about the prospect of maintaining the family tradition and keeping intact , the counts of TB's , i do not find it to be a difficult proposition , either - just as some people have expressed , we just have to pass on our beliefs and practices to our forthcoming generations , with unshakable faith on the truth and effectiveness of our path to reach GOD , salvation , heaven , whatever , you name it !
At this juncture , I also feel that , there is no point in digging up old events in the line of which caste harmed the other and to analyse things from that perspective as neither my grandfather nor the grand parents of the person from some other community is going to fetch food or protect the families.
I dare if anyone can deny the fact that across history , children of the lower caste had been deprived of the basic EDUCATION which we value with high importance , and also of the fact that our forefathers took undue advantage of the caste system controlling the brains of the downtrodden and were literally ruling over them .
I feel sorry for the injustice done to them , and it is fair enough that we reap what our forefather's sowed .
Although the suffering as mentioned shall be within pockets of poor brahmins , they still have a helping hand from the rich who can support them upto attainment of their basic degrees . This help is much amplified and explicit these days in most parts of tamil nadu . So its a matter of time when the younger generation turn independent and stand on their own legs .
So all we have to do is to pass on the legacy of our culture to them , boost their confidence to face the world and the rest will be taken care by the Almighty!
 
Christian missionaries accused of converting Hindus

By MANOJ ANAND
Guwahati, April 4: Assam Satra Mahasabha, the apex body of Vaishnavite Satras (monasteries) in the state, has charged Christian missionaries with carrying out a massive conversion drive on the river island of Majuli.
The 46th biannual session of Asom Satra Mahasanmilan, which was held at North Lakhimpur, in a formal resolution said: "Majuli is the epicentre of Vaishnavite culture and tradition. The Christian missionaries have recently converted a number of tribals by luring them with money in gross violation of the established norms."

The president of Assam Satra Mahasabha, Mr Bhadrakrishna Goswami, told reporters that they have drawn up a programme to thwart such attempts. He said: "Majuli, which is on the verge of extinction due to massive erosion caused by the Brahmaputra, is facing a dangerous threat of large-scale conversion of Hindus by Christian missionaries." He said a delegation of the Mahasabha would soon visit Majuli and make an assessment of the situation arising as a result of conversions. "Majuli is the heart of Vaishnavite religion. Hurting Majuli is like hurting the very heart of Assamese culture," said Pitambar Deva Goswami, Satradhikar of Auniati Satra and a leading Vaishnavite scholar.

The president of Satra Mahasabha who commands tremendous influence on social life of indigenous people of the state also questioned the intention of the American Baptist Missionary for publishing Aroonudoi in Assamese.

http://www.asianage.com/presentatio...issionaries-accused-of-converting-hindus.aspx
 
Christian missionaries accused of converting Hindus

By MANOJ ANAND
Guwahati, April 4: Assam Satra Mahasabha, the apex body of Vaishnavite Satras (monasteries) in the state, has charged Christian missionaries with carrying out a massive conversion drive on the river island of Majuli.
The 46th biannual session of Asom Satra Mahasanmilan, which was held at North Lakhimpur, in a formal resolution said: "Majuli is the epicentre of Vaishnavite culture and tradition. The Christian missionaries have recently converted a number of tribals by luring them with money in gross violation of the established norms."

The president of Assam Satra Mahasabha, Mr Bhadrakrishna Goswami, told reporters that they have drawn up a programme to thwart such attempts. He said: "Majuli, which is on the verge of extinction due to massive erosion caused by the Brahmaputra, is facing a dangerous threat of large-scale conversion of Hindus by Christian missionaries." He said a delegation of the Mahasabha would soon visit Majuli and make an assessment of the situation arising as a result of conversions. "Majuli is the heart of Vaishnavite religion. Hurting Majuli is like hurting the very heart of Assamese culture," said Pitambar Deva Goswami, Satradhikar of Auniati Satra and a leading Vaishnavite scholar.

The president of Satra Mahasabha who commands tremendous influence on social life of indigenous people of the state also questioned the intention of the American Baptist Missionary for publishing Aroonudoi in Assamese.

http://www.asianage.com/presentatio...issionaries-accused-of-converting-hindus.aspx

HOW CAN U PREVENT CONVERSION. RIGHT FROM INDEPENDENCE EXCEPTING A FEW YEARS OF MARARJI & VAJPAI JI'S RULE WE DIN'T HAVE A HINDU P.M. THE PRESENT DAY IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF A CATHALIC. WHEN SOME ONE IS READY FOR SALE, IT WILL HAPPEN.

bALEBALA
 
Folks,

When we can not agree among ourselves within our community, my humble perspective is that firstly we need to ask ourselves as Hindus why some of our brethren are opting for mass conversions (if it is induced by money or compulsion is still against the law of the country). Secondly we need to ask why such conversions are still taking place.

The answer to the first question is very simple. All Hindus are not believing in the Varna concept any more. The social aspect of our religion is so out of balance that we have even created a fifth varna! Unless ALL Hindus accept the original varna division of labour, this will be the reality.

The simple answer is the lure of money and status. And the structure of our communities where people follow a couple of leaders who tell them what to do. As long as the Christians (I have not seen other religions involved in this in a mass scale in India), are willing to throw money and assure these leaders that they will keep their Jathi leadership positions in the new religion, they will be allowed to keep the structure, they are 'converted'. You might have seen the recent articles about the reconcersions back to our religion. And a lot of us are happy. But to tell you the truth, I am not.

Because I think that nothing has changed. As Dr. Frank Morales, who adopted Hinduism has said (I am paraphrasing) 'until Hinduism finds a way to adapt to modernity, it will operate in a confused state".

Unless we fix this fundamental structural issue with our religion, we will see conversions for other than a honest personal choice.

What can we do about this?

Pranams,
KRS
 
Sir,

I was a bit perplexed with your statement:

All Hindus are not believing in the Varna concept any more. The social aspect of our religion is so out of balance that we have even created a fifth varna! Unless ALL Hindus accept the original varna division of labour, this will be the reality.
So are you saying that Hinduism as a religion is dead? When did it die?
The simple answer is the lure of money and status. And the structure of our communities where people follow a couple of leaders who tell them what to do. As long as the Christians (I have not seen other religions involved in this in a mass scale in India), are willing to throw money and assure these leaders that they will keep their Jathi leadership positions in the new religion, they will be allowed to keep the structure, they are 'converted'.
This statement seems quite contradictory. If you are saying that people convert to Christianity because of varna system (which you seem to say is dead) yet the Chiristian conversion guarantees the jathi system why is any body then converting? Are you implying that some 'leaders' like the trade unionists trading people to other religions for a fee? If that be the case, what gives rise to these 'leaders'? Obviously this trading in human lives is inhuman, irreligious and unlawful. We should then address the problem posed by these leaders (traders) of people who obviously are holding people as their slaves. How do we defeat these criminal leaders?

You might have seen the recent articles about the reconcersions back to our religion. And a lot of us are happy. But to tell you the truth, I am not.
Why not?!

As Dr. Frank Morales, who adopted Hinduism has said (I am paraphrasing) 'until Hinduism finds a way to adapt to modernity, it will operate in a confused state".
I am curious to know if Dr. Morales has suggested any 'way' for Hindus to 'adapt to modernity'. Are Christians and Muslims more modern than Hindus? What are the advantages and disadvantages of these 'modernity'?

Sincerely,
 
So are you saying that Hinduism as a religion is dead? When did it die?

I have poorly constructed my sentence:

Instead of "All Hindus are not believing in the Varna concept any more", I should have written "Not all Hindus believe in the Varna concept any more". Hope this makes it clearer as to what I meant to say.

This statement seems quite contradictory. If you are saying that people convert to Christianity because of varna system (which you seem to say is dead) yet the Chiristian conversion guarantees the jathi system why is any body then converting? Are you implying that some 'leaders' like the trade unionists trading people to other religions for a fee? If that be the case, what gives rise to these 'leaders'? Obviously this trading in human lives is inhuman, irreligious and unlawful. We should then address the problem posed by these leaders (traders) of people who obviously are holding people as their slaves. How do we defeat these criminal leaders?

Given my clarification above, I have addressed the first part of the question. The second part answer is that you are correct. The so called 'leaders' are criminal in intent as they often manipulate the small groups they lead for money. The existence of the caste sustem among the converted attests to the fact that these folks get converted not for any religious reasons.

Why not?!

Because, the majority who convert in the first place do so for money and/or social pressure brought on by block thinking. Religion does not seem to play any role. Just the fact that they do not see any religion as a serious factor in their lives makes me wonder whether they would benefit from any religion (after all that is the function of any religion).

I am curious to know if Dr. Morales has suggested any 'way' for Hindus to 'adapt to modernity'. Are Christians and Muslims more modern than Hindus? What are the advantages and disadvantages of these 'modernity'?

I have not read any specific suggestions by Dr. Morales as to how the Hindus adapt to modernity.

As for Christians and Moslems, I do not know either of their religious culture to make any specific statements. However as far as both of them concerned, there are supposed to be no formalized Jathi system. This adapts to the modern concept of democracy very well (even though the Muslims, I think have not made the connection yet at a broad level. Again this may be because of what Christianity has adapted in the realm of humanism during the Rennaisance).

I think that at the societal level such changes in the structure are necessary to bring about the modernity where different religions can live side by side in peace for the betterment of single nation states.

Pranams,
KRS
 
Dear Sri KRS

since the time I saw your post referring to Dr Frank Morales, I was thinking that I had not heard this name. Frank Moraes is very well known journalist and I thought you had referred to him. Frank Moraes was the editor of Times of India and Indian Express. There is a trust for the cause of journalism, known as Frank Moraes Foundation too. He never adopted Hinduism as you had mentioned. His son Dom Moraes was also a journalist but he had a Hindu partner, through whom he had a son by name Frank Moraes. I have no more information on this Frank Moraes. I was wondering if this is the one that you had referred to.

But my later enquiries revealed that there is indeed another Dr Frank Morales, who has adopted Hinduism and his web site is http://www.dharmacentral.com/

Is this the one that you had referred to? If so, where from you had picked up the exact phrase? Just in academic interest. It appears that he is interested in Yoga teaching. As we all know yoga teaching is a lucrative profession in USA. Could that be an attraction for him to follow Hinduism? Is he really interested in Hindu philosophy and attracted by that? What is his approach to Visishtadvaita which he professes? He doesnot seem to have been attracted to Hinduism out of any following of any specific Guru. Seems to have come from schoastic studies in American universities. Any information you have on him other than that in the site?

Regards

Appaiah
 
Dear Sri Appaiah Ji,

Dr. Frank Morales is a born NewYorker from Brooklyn. He is white and his parents are Catholic.

Please watch this short YouTube video - How I became a Hindu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXPBtRPqclo

Please read the following article on his position on Hinduism - especially under the heading 'The Dilemma'. I paraphrased what he said here (as I indicated in my posting):
http://hinduism.about.com/od/history/a/neohinduism.htm

A more interesting recent article about him:
http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2008/03/29/living/religion/doc47ed42c7851c6414830327.txt

This is all quite interesting, as one gets a glimpse of a person from a different culture's view on Sanatana Dharma. I do not exactly agree with him on certain things, but his devotion to Hinduism can not be doubted.

Pranams,
KRS
 
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