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Need of the hour for Tamil Brahmins is to increase their population

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Shri Venkataramani's answers have, sadly, proved the premise with which I answered Shri Kunjuppu. The lone voice of mine (like Rama in janasthanam, except, I am the rakshaha, and the rest in this forum is Rama defending caste), is a predictable harping and spewing to you all.


Let every body have their views and express freely in this forum. Personally I am not trying to isolate anybody. But having spent my entire life in Tamil nadu facing both class and caste struggles, probably made me tough and non-compromising, which I don't know whether right or wrong.

My assessment is majority of the people migrated to Mumbai,Delhi and other places generations back are still holding to their traditional customs and practices. From these forums, I could see majority of the people migrated to USA and other countries are still holding to their roots and don't want to give up the same. Both vegetarianism and certain religious practices have kept us away from other communities.

Political isolation of our community has not helped anybody. In Kerala, our community members are still in politics and are in the deciding levels. My own (late) brother in law was member of Marxist party in Trichur. My brother's father in law was a Congress MLA in Kerala. Both of them served the people very much. Unfortunately the Dravidian parties managed to throw us out of active politics as well as bureaucracy. Withdrawing from the scene has helped our community members to develop individually but we could not help poor & downtrodden members of other communities.

Professors views are progressive and have to be welcomed by all. But ground level realities are totally different due to strong anti-brahmin sentiment created by Dravidian parties.

All the best
 
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need of the hour....

Dear sri Venkatramani,

Talking about the communists, many comrades are brahmins; just to
name a few - Com. Nambudripad, Hiren Mukherjee, Dange, Randive,
Sule. Com.Dange was a great sanskrit scholar.
 
Dear Prof. Nara:
I agree with your progressive ideas. However, this site was not started with a view of identifying ourselves as 'casteists'. This was started to help the community to come together, exchange ideas on issues related to the development and well-being of the community and to be united because of the assaults on us by the Dravidian parties in TN. Praveen is the founder and he can add more. So, if we are to discuss about inter-caste marriages, abolishing castes, etc., in this forum (not that we are against them), with a name "tamilbrahmins.com", we would look foolish! or, we might be called hypocrites!
We don't advocate brahmin supremacy over other castes (we will not allow the postings, too) and we advocate respectful co-existence with other communities.
Speaking of treating the dalits as human beings, this is nothing new to brahmins. Several prominent brahmins have been advocating equality and justice for dalits (Rajaji, Satyamurthi Iyer, etc.). I heard even the name "Nallan Chakravarthi" came about to this Sri Vaishnava gentleman after he helped cremate a dalit when no other high-caste Hindus would help (knowledgeable members, correct me; i may not have the story straight).
Anyway, the point is that we are very progressive.
 
Speaking of treating the dalits as human beings, this is nothing new to brahmins. Several prominent brahmins have been advocating equality and justice for dalits (Rajaji, Satyamurthi Iyer, etc.). I heard even the name "Nallan Chakravarthi" came about to this Sri Vaishnava gentleman after he helped cremate a dalit when no other high-caste Hindus would help (knowledgeable members, correct me; i may not have the story straight).
Anyway, the point is that we are very progressive


It is true Rajaji's father Chakravarthi Iyengar creamated and did last rites for a dalith. Most of the freedom fighters like Madurai Vaidnatha Iyer (Mentor of Kakkan), Sathyamurthi (Mentor of Kamaraj), Mahakavi Bharathi and Rajaji have done great service in social reforms. Rajaji's daughter was married to Gandhiji's son belonging to a different caste.

But somehow the services of our great ancestors are hidden and Dravidian parties have managed to show us as villains. But already daliths and few other communities have started feeling that we are not their enemies. Only time will bring out the truth.

All the best
 
some feelings:

1) it really is utopian to think caste can be given up just bcoz of political pressure.

caste is culture. if someone is doing sandhyavandanam, then if not a brahmin, he will still be called by some other name to identify him for his culture.

culture evolves over time, does change....but one can never be forced to give it up; and neither can one run away from his culture completely severing ties with it even if he wants to - it follows him everywhere like a shadow, sometimes seen, sometimes unseen.

2) brahmins are not the only community facing difficulties due to changing times..imho, every community is at the crossroads b/w the old and the new.

3) antibrahmanism is nothing but a political tool to fool masses into thinking that one community is responsible for all their troubles (where did their own role go?)

4) marriages happen when love happens or is arranged to happen. one cannot marry or remain married for the sake of others who decide things based on political and social stuff.

5) finally abt the topic of the thread: crows are many, lions are few. its quality rather than quantity that matters.

regards.
 
unity is need of the hour

Dear Sir,

Namaskaram

During my post I forget to tell one thing.

When the question is raising about increasing the population, I want to make the another question related to that how we are going to maintain at least the existing population in Brahmanism.

I regret to inform this but I want to share my feelings,

Nowadays the youngsters within the family are becoming against the rituals what the elders are doing, I mean a DK movement is inserted in the younger generation.

The next one the Christian missionaries are targeting the young Brahmins for conversion, they are working silently even more than five years the parents could not identify these things until the parents look for alliance. But these young ones wanted to marry brahmin girls only so they can add another person to Christianity.

I hope all our senior people will help us to keep the brahmin culture alive.

With namaskarams
sathya



In today's world , to get favourable decisions and actions, number might is a must.

More Quality also comes from more quantity only.

Tamil Brahmin community is not able to get things and decisions in their favour from political establishments mainly because of their miniscule population.

So ,to save the community from extinction and to exist,survive and surge ahead,the TBs have necessarily to increase in numbers.

I seek the full engagement of the community towards this and seek views thru the forum


Namaskarams
 
Nowadays the youngsters within the family are becoming against the rituals what the elders are doing, I mean a DK movement is inserted in the younger generation.


This is bound to happen when we elders fail to perform our rituals as well daily karmas effectively. The cosmopolitan atmosphere in cities will definitely affect our children from following rituals.

The next one the Christian missionaries are targeting the young Brahmins for conversion, they are working silently even more than five years the parents could not identify these things until the parents look for alliance. But these young ones wanted to marry brahmin girls only so they can add another person to Christianity.

It is an open secret that certain sections of the christian community has a single point agenda `conversion'. During inter religion marriages, when we don't accept the marriage, the other side will take advantage of the situation and convert the couple to the other faith.

Catholics are the majority christians in India. They don't propagate openly. But protestents, pentacostal and other groups main agenda is conversion. They even induce with money. Catholics main agenda is to convert other christians to their faith. Since most of the missionary hospitals and educational institutions are run by catholics, the other christians convert to catholic faith at the appropriate time.
 
...
When the question is raising about increasing the population, I want to make the another question related to that how we are going to maintain at least the existing population in Brahmanism.

I regret to inform this but I want to share my feelings,

Nowadays the youngsters within the family are becoming against the rituals what the elders are doing, I mean a DK movement is inserted in the younger generation.

The next one the Christian missionaries are targeting the young Brahmins for conversion, they are working silently even more than five years the parents could not identify these things until the parents look for alliance. But these young ones wanted to marry brahmin girls only so they can add another person to Christianity.

I hope all our senior people will help us to keep the brahmin culture alive.

With namaskarams
sathya

sathya,

first and foremost, i think it is the elders of today, ie the youth of yesterday, who were the first generation to ignore the strictures of daily rituals in favour of secular pleasures such as films, hotel food and later alcohol.

this trend started in the 50s, with the onset of industrialization of india and urban migration. with increased paychecks came increased opportunities to spend.

now those erstwhile youngsters have realized some of the consequences, and trying to do damage control. i am afraid, this type of hypocracy does not work.

you see a lot of those types around the religious mutts, ayyappa samajams and asthika samajams. there appears, i think, a fallacy, that one automatically acquires wisdom with age.

i do not think this is necessarily so. foolishness is as much a quality of youth as well as the old. in fact, i think, there is no fool like an old fool.

for starters, instead of the 70+s bleating about the community standards and morals going to dogs, they might want to ponder about their own contribution (or lack of) towards character building of their own children, which they appear to have failed.

if some self righteous ones, think that their own children are ok, but it is the other youth that are the problem, i do not know how else to defy hypocracy.

sathya, i also think that the way to grow is not to shrink. or have attitudes to defend. aggression is the best form of defence.

let us go after christians, conver them, and marry those folks. after all, when a brahmin gets converted, is not a christian girl ever ready to marry him or her. let us learn a leaf from their book of skillsets and adapt it. otherwise these are laments for lost causes. i think so anyway.
 
First the premise that the Brahmins are wholly responsible for Dalit's condition is wrong.

Second the premise that by 'giving up' the caste the abuse towards Dalits will go away is wrong.

Third the premise that other jathis will give up their jathis (including Dalits their identification), if Brahmins give up their jathi is wrong.

Fourth, the premise that anyone can 'give up' their jathi and will instantly become 'jathiless' is wrong.

Where do we begin?

Regards,
KRS
 
False premises!

Dear KRS:
A very good one and I agree.

First the premise that the Brahmins are wholly responsible for Dalit's condition is wrong.

Second the premise that by 'giving up' the caste the abuse towards Dalits will go away is wrong.

Third the premise that other jathis will give up their jathis (including Dalits their identification), if Brahmins give up their jathi is wrong.

Fourth, the premise that anyone can 'give up' their jathi and will instantly become 'jathiless' is wrong.
Where do we begin?
Regards,
KRS
 
It is difficult to remove caste from the system. But removing economic disparities is a much better solution. Empowering Daliths, Muslims, MBC, OBC etc with better education will make them more happy both economically and socially. Incidentally it will develop the country also.
 
Greetingsl

To all I say first and foremost, my intent is not to hurt the feelings of anybody, but the topic is such that there is no way that can be avoided at least in the case of few.

I agree that under the banner of tamilbrahmins.com, talking about shedding caste identity is kind of hypocritical. But IMHO, it is a small price to pay for the good it could do.

People have lots of objections. Nobody can be forced, government will say you are still a Brahmin, others will still look at you as a Brahmin, NB’s do all the bad things, Brahmins have accepted Nandanar and Thiruppanazvar – all veritable strawman arguments.

Nandanar had to undergo ordeal by fire before he was supposed to have been allowed in. His superior Bhakthi was not sufficient, he had to undergo additional ordeals, and yet, without a trace of recognition of the hypocrisy, this story is often cited as evidence of Brahmin magnanimity.

When Loka saranga Muni saw Thiruppanazvar blocking his way he threw a stone upon him. Thiruppanazhvar ran away ashamed that he blocked the way of a Brahmin. The balance of the story not withstanding – which is much more worthy of admiration than the story of Nandanar, this clearly shows that when a Brahmin approaches, the low caste is supposed to move away.

Swami Alavandhar had Maraneri Nambi, an avarna, as one of his disciples. When Maraneri nambi died, his Brahmin classmate Periya Nambi, Bhagavat Ramanuja's acharya, performed the last rites. While one is tempted to tout this as an example of Brahmin broadmindedness, one must also look at the reaction to this by the rest of the Brahmin community. Periya Nambi was ostracized by the Brahmin community and the entrance to his house was blocked with thorny bushes. Ultimately his eyes were gouged out and he died.

These things happened more than 1000 years ago, not just in the recent past as some claim.

HappyHindu says caste is just culture. If it is so benign why are Brahmins and Brahminism universally hated and condemned by almost all others? Just look at TamilnaduTalk.com for a sample. The depth and intensity of the animosity is breathtaking. Among the educated NBs it is hard to find anyone siding with the Brahmins on this issue. Blaming the Dravidian parties, or saying that NB’s are just jealous, or they just hate Brahmins, only perpetuates these myths in our own minds and the minds of youngsters. This is a grave disservice to the thousands of poor Brahmins who cannot escape out of TN like so many others who have very readily given up on all or almost all the duties prescribed to Brahmins by shasthras and taken up lives of Shudras, yet hypocritically and assiduously refusing to give up their Brahmin identity. What sort of culture is this?

The answer is not a call for caste-based unity or increasing the numbers of Brahmins -- that will never be achieved, talk about utopia. The only answer is to find a way to give up on caste. Rich and middle class Brahmins have it made. They have nothing to fear from the dreaded Dravdian parties. They have already found ways of coping and thriving by giving up on every last shred of what shasthras say makes one a Brahmin, but still they want to hang on to that identity. More than the Dravidian parties, it is the actions of these identity-Brahmins that harm those who still follow the life of a Brahmin as described in the shasthras; at least the discrimination they practice is not hypocritical. Alas, they get brushed with the same broad strokes intended for the hypocritical Brahmins who are dime a dozen.

My views are not very palatable here, for obvious reasons. So, people routinely resort to ad hominem and strawmen arguments. To them, I say, construct any number of strawmen and burn them down all you want, but answer this one question, what in the world that is good and wholesome that cannot be had unless we have caste. I have asked this question several times. Instead of giving me an answer I am told I predictably spew and harp. Well, compared to the oppression panchamas have suffered for millennia, these slings and arrows are like rose petals.

Attacking me won’t solve anything. Shri Venkataramani signs off with ‘Let Noble Thoughts come to us from all sides’ – Rigveda 1-89-i.” Words to live by, not just to quote, I hope.

I am talking about people, one at a time, on their own, casting the caste aside. Let the system change whenever. Let the government do anything they want, let the NB’s think whatever they may. Unburden for it is the right thing to do -- once unshackled from caste and free, there is much joy that awaits us all.

Cheers!
 
Dear Prof. Nara:
Good points. However, if we remove the name 'Tamilbrahmins.com', then no one would join this forum and it will die very quickly. Who do you think would come on this forum and post views, etc.? What would be the common denominator?

Your views are very noble; yet, I submit that we are not there yet. In addition, pray tell what is it we would achieve if we are to give up our identity as brahmins; and, how do we do that? When I was in Chennai last year, I was in a conference and during the recess we were just mingling around. Some gentleman came to me and asked me point-blank: "aren't you a Brahmin?"; I said "does it matter; and how do you that I am a Brahmin?". He says "from your features, demeanor and your Brahminical Tamil". The point I am trying to make is that even if we give up our identity of Brahmins, the other castes aren't going to let us forget it!!!!
 
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Attacking me won’t solve anything. Shri Venkataramani signs off with ‘Let Noble Thoughts come to us from all sides’ – Rigveda 1-89-i.” Words to live by, not just to quote, I hope.

I am talking about people, one at a time, on their own, casting the caste aside. Let the system change whenever. Let the government do anything they want, let the NB’s think whatever they may. Unburden for it is the right thing to do -- once unshackled from caste and free, there is much joy that awaits us all.


Thanks Prof Nara ji,

I am always looking for noble thoughts and my eyes and mind are not blurred with caste glasses. I always admire Sri Seshadri Swamigal, Ramana Maharishi & Vallimalai swamigal as compared to regular Madathipathis & peetathipathis. The above three, even though brahmins by birth, have taken new paths to their goal carrying all castes and religion. They mingled freely with all communities, taking food at Dalith hamlets and lived in caves & cremation grounds. Both Ramana Maharishi & Vallimalai Swamigal propagated Tamil rather than sanskrit. Seshadri Swamigal because of his Telugu origin couldn't master Tamil Language.After Baghavath Ramanujar, the above three are the best spiritual gurus from Tamilnadu where all communities can follow.

I fully accept your views that there should be integration of all communities. If Tamilnadu had a class struggle like neighbouring Kerala, we would have achieved much faster. Unfortunately the caste struggle propagated by dravidian parties has shown more hatred in all communities including our own community which is the root cause of the problem. Please continue to write your views which we all read with equal interest.

All the best
 
HappyHindu says caste is just culture. If it is so benign why are Brahmins and Brahminism universally hated and condemned by almost all others? Just look at TamilnaduTalk.com for a sample. The depth and intensity of the animosity is breathtaking. Among the educated NBs it is hard to find anyone siding with the Brahmins on this issue. Blaming the Dravidian parties, or saying that NB’s are just jealous, or they just hate Brahmins, only perpetuates these myths in our own minds and the minds of youngsters. This is a grave disservice to the thousands of poor Brahmins who cannot escape out of TN like so many others who have very readily given up on all or almost all the duties prescribed to Brahmins by shasthras and taken up lives of Shudras, yet hypocritically and assiduously refusing to give up their Brahmin identity. What sort of culture is this?

i think i read your post abt 10+ times. Unfortunately i do not know to read Tamil and an entire forum in Tamil is tuf for me to transliterate. I also do not know about lives of saints, etc as you describe.

I am a NB, have always identified myself as one, and i happen to support my hindu brethern. My ideas are shaped by my circumstances. Some years back i came across situations where the idea of antibrahmanism was used to endorse violence; to beget what 'they' believed was 'pure tamil culture'.

No matter how the past was, i do not beleive a single thing can be rectified by a tit-for-tat attitude, based on vengence or anger. Esp not in present day circumstances when one has very many venues to better themselves, venues to move on to better lives, rather than waste their time in 'rectifying the past'.

Was reading comments by readers on this:An interview with social scientist P Radhakrishnan: Rediff.com news and i do agree with you that superiority complex is displayed by a section of brahmins. It is unfortunately possible that they are the very people who left behind all vestiges of a brahmanical life but are the most vociferous ones...and because of their superiority attitude end up bringing upon the wrath and anger of people on the section that lives a proper brahmanical life...This situation is rather unique to the brahmins i guess...For the NBs, it does not matter if they give up a traditional life for the present day life (though they too have this conflict b/w the old and the new), but they do not have a brahmanical kind of life to give up in the first place, and their cultural changes are limited i suppose (??)...

But just bcoz of a section of vociferous vestigal brahmins, is it right to ask the ones that live a proper brahmanical life, in their own quiet ways, to give up their culture and identity? Is it not a form of persecution?

I do not think it is possible for all brahmins to go back to the old way of life either, as supposedly spoken of or expected by Sri Chandrashekhara Swami. Giving up the present-life for the old is not easy either.

This is where i am reminded often so much of Shri Kunjuppu ji's post on the lack of leadership from within the brahmanical communites for guidance.

So what goes?..i still think the whole idea of giving up caste voluntarily might not work...there are NBs like my mum who will not accept a NB as a priest...its just the culture, and things are far too complicated..how many people can one change...

Instead of trying to fix the situation, perhaps the best move might be to not make any move at all, and let time take care of things....is this a fatalistic attitude? God alone knows...

Regards.
 
Some gentleman came to me and asked me point-blank: "aren't you a Brahmin?";


Dear Shri Silverfox:

Thank you for your reply.

The change I am pleading for is a change for its own sake, a change of heart. IMHO, it really does not matter what other people think, let them think whatever. My answer to that gentleman would have been, "Yes, I was born into a Brahmin family, but I am not a Brahmin any more." -- but thats just me.

cheers and best regards!
 
Dear Shri Silverfox:

Thank you for your reply.

The change I am pleading for is a change for its own sake, a change of heart. IMHO, it really does not matter what other people think, let them think whatever. My answer to that gentleman would have been, "Yes, I was born into a Brahmin family, but I am not a Brahmin any more." -- but thats just me.

cheers and best regards!

Once Karunanidhi made fun of Subramanyam Swamy saying he is a brahmin.

Subramanyam Swamy replied `I am not wearing Poonal and not practicing any of the practices prescribed for Brahmins. If Karunanidhi wants, he is willing to wear a poonal and fallow the practices'. Karunanidhi didn't react to that statement'.
 
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This is an actual incident.

Late Swami Anwanandha ji, founder of Vaishnavi temple, Thirumullaivayil, Chennai, lived in the temple premises and one his disciples Mr.Palani belonging to NB community did all the services to him. Swamiji taught him all sanscrit slokas and manthras and got his upanayanam done and subsequently got him married to a brahmin girl. Few years back, I attended the upanayanam of Sri Palani's son. He recites all the manthras and slokas ( probably much better than original TBs) and is living like a brahmin. He is doing poojas in the temple with full sincerity.

For increasing the population of brahmins, can we adopt the above technique. Why not convert other community members to our community. Bhagavath Ramanujar has done this earlier. Arya samaj is doing conversion of other religion to Hindu faith. What is wrong in converting other castes to brahmin?

All the best
 
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For increasing the population of brahmins, can we adopt the above technique. Why not convert other community members to our community. Bhagavath Ramanujar has done this earlier. Arya samaj is doing conversion of other religion to Hindu faith. What is wrong in converting other castes to brahmin?

All the best

my sentiments 101% venkat.

we cannot grow by shrinking.

large families are not going to happen. conversion to our way of life, from both hindus and non hindus should happen.

christians and muslims welcome people to their faith with open arms and treat them like jewels. look at how we treat someone, even from a subcaste!
 
Good and Practical suggestion

Let us accept the fact that we cannot increase the population of our community unless a great reformer like Mahan Ramanujar comes to us and converts other community people to our community.

Intercaste marriages are more prevalent right now as compared to earlier days. Atleast we should accept the other community member as well as children born to the couple as our community members.

We have to start alliances with Brahmins of other states. I earnestly feel that there is no harm in marrying from our community members belonging to north india or other southern states.

On the other side, our community members are dispersed throughout the globe. Personally my own relatives are there in USA, Europe, Gulf, Singapore and Australia. There are several others outside Tamilnadu also. All my three children are outside Tamilnadu.

My earnest appeal to our fellow members is `move out of Tamilnadu' as much as possible. If possible move out of the country also. At the same time, don't forget the roots. By doing this, we may not be a political force anywhere in the world. But we should be a force both educationally and economically. We should encourage our youngsters to become entreprenuers and move up the ladder further.

Brahmin population in Tamilnadu is coming down every day. I strongly feel it is good for our community. The quality of education in India as well Tamilnadu is going down steadily. Why should we fight against reservation for inferior quality education? Let other castes fight among themselves. Let us watch it from the sidelines.

We have already given up Govt jobs including public sector jobs. Private jobs is the only attraction for our community members within India. Self employed is another option.

Let us bother about quality rather than quantity.

All the best

It is one of the best solution for survival of brahmin community as a whole in many states of India except UP.

But odd ego problems are real cause that it is not occurring on scale that it is required

But a good suggestion indeed
 
I do not understand the purport of the discussion. Are we really serious in spending time and effort on this topic? Many small communities in the world have proved, it is not the quantity but the quality is more important. Take for instance the The Parsees, the Jews, the Khojas, Dawoodi Bohras, the Baniyas, the Jains and many others like them. These people lead in controlling the Economy of many nations, though they do not have numerical strength. Thanks to family planning, our community has started enjoying comforts that our forefathers could not enjoy. We would not have been able to give good education and life if we had not control numbers in our families. Let us, especially those who have migrated abroad and earn more wealth, help those less fortunates in our community who still rot in the villages and interior Temples. Let us try to conserve, help and save what ever still left in our Brahmin Culture, that were assiduously guarded by our ancestors.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
Yes Shri Brahmanyan ji, I am with you !

Singam single aagathan varum ! aadu thaan mandhayaga varum !

A small family is a happy family ! As some of the wise posters have mentioned above in this thread , we definitely have to carry on our culture in modest ways , adapting ourselves in the community where we dwell , instead of being indifferent and getting into conflicts. All i have being born as a brahmin in this janma is the wisdom passed on thru genetics from my forefathers and a well developed brain capable of assisting me to figure out and reach for self and my families requirements, in this life. Nothing more !
 
All i have being born as a brahmin in this janma is the wisdom passed on thru genetics from my forefathers and a well developed brain capable of assisting me to figure out and reach for self and my families requirements, in this life.

Dear Viji Sesh,

Looks like wisdom is passed on thru generations bcoz of a nurturing / family environment, but not sure how wisdom is passed on thru genetics..

Regards.
 
To the question, why cannot we convert other community people into Brahmin fold, I wish to say that - (a) we as a community feel we are supreme and all others are
inferior (of course, this thought is fast changing)
(b) we oppose accepting others amongst us for the fear that
their presence may corrupt our traditions and culture
(c) we are of the opinion that our unique identity may get
dissipated or lost, in due course
Yes, my opinion is, we must be guarded in accepting others but, there shall not be total/blanket ban on doing so. Selective and open-minded approach is needed.

To the next question whether wisdom is passed on through inheritance, to a great extent 'yes, it is'.

But, through genetic mutation, say after 3 generations, better or worse situation may result in. I noticed one surprising thing. Even the staunch rebels' children possess just opposite attributes on many issues, thus differing from their biological parents vastly.
 
Dear Friiends, Just read in the thread itself , it shows lot of difference in opinion.
We as Brahmins cannot improve our numbers as it will lead us to more complication.
What we can do is as Brahmin have to give educational oppurtunity or employment oppurtunity to a needy Brahmin.
Educate the Brahmin who is availing such help to give helping hands to other needy brahmins.
You just see the living of a community from Coimbatore. They are big in business and they ensure that through out in the country their works or Show room will have one loyal person working for them, needless to say from same community, His position may be last or second from the bottom, still he is given an oppurtunity to monitor the activity. His feed backs are accepted and interestingly he will be too truthful to his boss.
Why we should not adopt this tactics.
 
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