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prasad1

Active member
Raji Madam

These perverts just post these preachings without even thinking; even in the Thread opener's home. Ladies must be working; it is because no one listens to him and this Forum is free to post any Thread, he just post these preachings for others to follow, not for him or for his family members.
PJJI,
Gussa thuk dijiye.
It might be too harsh. He did admit that no body follows his ideas. Let it go at that.
 

kunjuppu

Active member

Dear P S N Sir,

I appreciate those who
do sandhyA vandhanam at least once a day and those who visit a temple once a week.

But asking guys to sport a tuft and stopping ladies from going for work is something impossible at this hour!

It is not possible for brahmins to live the 'life of a brahmin' as prescribed by the elders. :)

i think the word that used to used in matrimoney sites, 'a right blend of east and west, modern but still upholds indian values..' n'est pas? :)
 
i think the word that used to used in matrimoney sites, 'a right blend of east and west, modern but still upholds indian values..' n'est pas? :)

"sandhyA vandhanam at least once a day" is neither here nor there; it is like building a bridge till midway between the two banks of a river. Visiting temple at least once a week is not at all prescribed in the brahmanic daily routines and is purely RR's prescription for an "appreciable" brahmin in her view. In a similar vein I will appreciate a person who may not believe or follow any brahmanic practices - including temple visit - but is honest enough to admit it.

May be this will be no blend but pure values.
 

Raji Ram

Active member

Dear Sangom Sir,

I have seen brahmins who do not perform sandhyA vandhanam even once a day, admire people from another religion

who do their seven times prayers, even during their travel in a train! So also, I have seen brahmins who seldom visit

their temples, admire the Sunday visits of people
from another religion, to attend their prayer meetings! That is why

I wrote that post. Right, Sir?

P.S: I do not have any intention to prescribe anything! :)
 

tbs

0
hi
studying in veda patashala is not a easy thing....its like ARMY LIFE WITH DISCIPLENE....

sanskrit is also no so easy....i did all the three in my life....i was veda patashala student...

i served in INDIAN ARMY....i studied sanskrit uoto Ph.D level....so i know the

difficulty...easy to preach....difficult to practice.....IDEALISM IS GOOD...REALISM IS

DIFFICULT.....these things are not for everyone....we need a passion/dedication

and determination to do all these ritualistic life....i think in this facebook age.....

IT is a main survivor in this modern life.....
 
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renuka

Well-known member
Dear Sir,

Interesting post I must say..my replies are in blue:


As Hindus must have shika (tuft),They should sport a Shika like their fore-fathers or at least a small Shika admidst their hair.


No comments.

Hindus must always have a religious mark like Vibhuthi (holy ash) or Thiru Naamam (or Gopi Chandhan)on their forehead.In case of women kumkum,sindhoor as per tradition etc.,

No comments again..becos outward markings need not reflect our true nature..so I leave it to the individual to decide what they want to follow.

Girls should be married as earlier as possible to prevent love marriages and inter caste marriages.Vedic Scriptures orders Hindu Parents to get their daughters married before they attain the age of 12 or puberty (whichever is earlier).

Not possible cos legally it would be statutory rape.

There is a great scientific reason behind this rule.If you do some research you will get to know the facts and start to praise the scriptures how scientific it is!.

Hindus should not study in Co-Ed schools and colleges which leads to inter-caste love marriages.

Here you contradict your own self...if you want girls to be married at puberty by 12 years old..surely they wont be at schools anymore..so where is the problem of Co- ed?

So it's going to be all boys schools only but there is no guarantee there wont be Varna Sanskar of the same sex kind!LOL

Varna Saankaryam is said as a great sin even in Srimath Bhagavath Gita!.

Which Shloka??

Are you talking about Arjuna's lamenting to escape the Battle?

Did you read Lord Krishna's response??

All Lord Krishna said was :


sri-bhagavan uvaca
kutas tva kasmalam idam
visame samupasthitam
anarya-justam asvargyam
akirti-karam arjuna

bump.gif
The Supreme Person [Bhagavan] said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to infamy.


BTW try to use logic when we read any religious text...Arjuna was just lamenting on any post war scene.

In war of yesteryears..once the King or the man of the house is dead..his wife/daughters become slaves to the sexual desires of the invaders..children are born out of the wedlock owing to this.

Such children grow up emotional scared and have hatred towards society and have trouble coping with their "out of the wedlock"status and become emotional wrecks..such people usually do not follow any family" tradition" becos they feel life and society had "betrayed" them when their mothers (stri) got polluted as in rape by the invading males..so please try to look at Arjuna's lamenting in a post war scene even though he was just trying to use that as an excuse as not to fight.


Otherwise any normal Varna Sanskar in present day where it is an intercaste marriage where both parents marry and look after kids well...I see no reason why tradition and religion will decline.

Hindus consisiting of Brahmanas,kshatriya,Vaishya & shudras must always try to stick to their "swa-dharma" to their extent possible.

Not all people think like you..for some Tamil Brahmins I have met..only 2 castes exists for them... Brahmin and Shudras..so I wonder who is Kshatriya and Vaishya here in the context of your post.

In short, Must follow the traditions of the Jaati Dharma & earn a livelihood as done by their ancestors.

Would you get your daughter married to a priest or some IT professional in the USA?

Brahmins Must perform their daily vedic rites without fail.

Any Hindu regardless of caste should try to put some minimum effort to perform some daily prayers if possible.

BrahminsMust avoid eating in hotels.

Fair enough for anyone cos outside food is calorie laden.

Brahmins Must not eat onions,garlic etc..

No comments.

Brahmins Must earn a livelihood by the ways said to brahmins.i.e. by adyapanam,yaajanam,prathigraha(Teaching,Officating as priests,recieve gifts)

Do you??
Brahmins must take care that they are not criticized in the media.

Try telling Kamal Hassan that!LOL
Many PIL's must be filed in the court to protect our dharma,to live a decent dignified life,etc whichever is necesscary,
Must educate our children about great vedic Hindu heritage and must educate them about our dharma shastras and make them to follow it by ourselves being a roll-model.

Fair enough.
Ladies must not go for work.(Let us live a simple life with the salary of the earning head!.Let women not compete with men for job opportunities who are still unemployed).Ladies can exib=hibit their talent in spiritual or social causes.

So I guess men should not feel uneasy when their wives pregnancy/delivery/pap smear/breast examinations are done by male doctors and attended to by only male nurses.


I think hinduism can be saved only by the involvement of women.It was protected actually.

Really?? I thought women are traditionally not allowed to even recite the Gayatri Mantra!

We Must wear only traditional dress,atleast at home or during worship.When it is not necessary,We need not imitate the Western people in our dress,language etc when we get out to behave socially in the society.

How come we type in English using western made lap tops and western technology??
Try not to divide the world if possible...east and west need each other.

Brahmins must learn vedas,dharma shastras ,sanskrit daily.Brahmins Must perform sandhya vandhana,aupasanam,agnihotra,vaishvadevam daily.

Fair enough.
 
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Dear Sangom Sir,

I have seen brahmins who do not perform sandhyA vandhanam even once a day, admire people from another religion

who do their seven times prayers, even during their travel in a train! So also, I have seen brahmins who seldom visit

their temples, admire the Sunday visits of people
from another religion, to attend their prayer meetings! That is why

I wrote that post. Right, Sir?

P.S: I do not have any intention to prescribe anything! :)

Mrs RR,

I think this is perfectly fine. Just because I get 0 in Maths, doesn't mean I shouldnt admire people who get centum in Math!

I have seen Muslims do their namaaz in a conference room, right in the middle of the work day even in the US. I do not admire their religion, but I do admire their commitment to it. I think most Hindus would have given up their religion if they had to do daytime fasting for a whole month.
 


Shri sarathy,

I don't know your age nor your experience or knowledge about our "hindu rituals" applicable to brahmins. Our scriptures do not at all view the rituals as "flexible" but it was our own community which misinterpreted those rituals as flexible mainly because it was not "brAhmaNyam" which was important to us, as a community, from the beginning of the 20th. century, but the comforts of modern living which could be obtained only through earning more money. In this race many of us tabras readily changed to shudra servants of the britishers and the british government; we still continue essentially as shudras but have the hypocrisy to boast ourselves as brahmins. That is the tragedy which has befallen the tabras.

Sangomji,
I think this is just adaptation and survival, which is the hallmark of any successful species, race, ethnic group. Would you really recommend that we stay frozen in the middle ages? Is it really a sin if we sit in an airconditioned room and listen to songs on our iPod? Should we really condemn the TBs who have crossed the kalapani​ to do world-class research and win Nobel prizes?
 
Sangomji,
I think this is just adaptation and survival, which is the hallmark of any successful species, race, ethnic group. Would you really recommend that we stay frozen in the middle ages? Is it really a sin if we sit in an airconditioned room and listen to songs on our iPod? Should we really condemn the TBs who have crossed the kalapani​ to do world-class research and win Nobel prizes?

Dear Shri Biswa,

I take the "TBs who have crossed the kalapani​ to do world-class research and win Nobel prizes" bit in your post as mere exaggeration. Almost all of the exodus of tabras has been due to the IT sector and to the best of my knowledge, there is very little of TBs who have crossed the kalapani​ to do world-class research and win Nobel prizes, in that sector.

That said, what I pointed out was the doublespeak. Personally, I do not know if I would have been happy to spend my life as a very poor but vaideeki brahmin, without any chance to go out of the fetters imposed by scriptures. I have no quarrel with people who "sit in an airconditioned room and listen to songs on our iPod" except that it is a very unhealthy life style.
 
Mrs RR,

I think this is perfectly fine. Just because I get 0 in Maths, doesn't mean I shouldnt admire people who get centum in Math!

I have seen Muslims do their namaaz in a conference room, right in the middle of the work day even in the US. I do not admire their religion, but I do admire their commitment to it. I think most Hindus would have given up their religion if they had to do daytime fasting for a whole month.

I am in awe of them actually when they do that. Why do you thing they are able to do that and we aren't? Are we ashamed or we don't have much emotional attachment to (our religion) do you think or just plain lazy or just very secular?
 
Muslims follow taliban diktats; or lose their head. If they do not do namaz, their family, friends and mosque will punish them.

I would advice making a list of practices prescribed in the scriptures in column 1, list what your ancestors did follow in column 2, and lay down what you want and can follow in column 3. For example, our grandfathers could easily carry a head load of say 50 kg, whereas we need a wheeled trolley for 10 kg suitcase.

One technique in management is 'gap analysis' and what is to be done to reduce the gap. Some practices or strictures have a lot to do with time and place and community pressure.

Hindu rituals are flexible to suit one's need. The rules mentioned in the post read more like Taliban instructions, only the religion is different.
 

Raji Ram

Active member

Dear Amala,

Where there is a will there is a way!

If one wishes to visit a temple everyday, it IS possible! :D

I have a few relatives who do the daily pooja and sandhyavandhanam before leaving to their office! :thumb:
 
I am in awe of them actually when they do that. Why do you thing they are able to do that and we aren't? Are we ashamed or we don't have much emotional attachment to (our religion) do you think or just plain lazy or just very secular?

Plain laziness and take it easy attitude are the most plausible reasons. Certain abashment is possible to restrict performance of one's religious practices in public at alien places . When I was a l boy of around 10 years and had to go to the temple on AvaNi avittam day clad in a pattu veshti in Maharashtra, i felt as if the whole street was watching me and would make fun of me afterwards. To bring in secularism is an excuse for most people to not admit that they are concealing easy going attitude or just plain laziness.

Such people (performing five times namaz) would also not be frequenting the forums similar to ours where everything related to their ideology is being dismantled on every day basis resembling tamil idiom/phraseology of 'AKKU VERA AANI VERA" nor would they be permitting free downloading arm chair criticisms in their forums under one garb or another.
 
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Dear P S N Sir,

I appreciate those who
do sandhyA vandhanam at least once a day and those who visit a temple once a week.

But asking guys to sport a tuft and stopping ladies from going for work is something impossible at this hour!

It is not possible for brahmins to live the 'life of a brahmin' as prescribed by the elders. :)


Raji Madam

It seems turf ( Kudumi ) is a must for doing any Subha or Ashuba Kariyam; even for reciting Sandhyavandanam it is a must.

This is what Sri.gopalan Sir says in another post..

வியாஸர்: குடுமி, பூணல் இல்லாமல் செய்த கார்யம் ராக்ஷஸமாகும். அதாவது லோகத்திற்கு கெடுதலை உண்டு பண்ணும்.. கர்த்தாவிற்கு கர்மா செய்த பலன் வராது.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/rituals-ceremonies-pujas/12828-yagnopaveetham-poonool-2.html

To tell you frankly, i never do Sandhya Vandanam ; only on occasions i do as per the guidance of Sasthrigal; nor do i have Turf..
Not going to Temple to Change Poonal on Avanai Avittam as I am dependent on someone else for transport etc here.

Whenever possible , i visit any Temple, that too not on some Festival days as the Temple will be very much crowded.



But we donate regularly to some Orphanage/Old age Homes.
 
Such people (performing five times namaz) would also not be frequenting the forums similar to ours where everything related to their ideology is being dismantled on every day basis

I agree with you on the "take it easy attitude" part. But do you think even the people not frequenting this forum are following all the prescribed rituals?

The decline of some societal aspects cant be the fault of this forum, can it?
 

kunjuppu

Active member
I sincerely think that will get you all the punyam that you would have got by following any of the orthodox rituals.

i tend to agree...

we appear to spend crores renovating temples in agraharams no longer populated by brahmins. instead, scholarships to poor brahmin students or helping out the old among us, those who need help with medical bills, will go a long way, to your punyam credit, with that great accountant chitraguptan :)

eh P.J., you worth several crores now ? :) eh eh!!

btw is there a lottery for punyams? :)
 

kunjuppu

Active member
I agree with you on the "take it easy attitude" part. But do you think even the people not frequenting this forum are following all the prescribed rituals?

The decline of some societal aspects cant be the fault of this forum, can it?

biswa,

i think, in this forum, there is a dichotomy between 'what is' and 'wishful thinking'. the former are realists, i think, calling a spade a spade, and folks like me, would to 'manage' the inevitable changes to our benefit.

whereas those who lament the loss of an brahmin lifestyle of a few hundred years ago, would wish away us realists, as if we do not exist. also wish away the changes, which they themselves have embraced. along with it, all the socio economic progress of independent india.

that they speak for a hindutva which they themselves would find inconvenient to live, is conveniently forgotten. i think anyway.

in some ways, our community is like the noveau riche in many aspects. most of us, are only removed from poverty by a generation or two, and that too mostly due to our adaptive and innovative skills. it is this abandonment as a community, by society government mutts etc at large, i think, has also contributed to our zealous individualism and tendency to adapt and bend our traditions, to suit our current standard of living or comfort, for these did not come easy.

barring a selected few, i dont think any one of us would revert to the OP prescription. but i am really surprised at times, at the zest with which folks slightly behind in reformation mock/attack those who are a few years ahead. maybe they not like what they see, as themselves in a few years. but such is life, and i think, to put a brake on a movement started a few generations ago, at this point, would be futile if not self harming.

anyway that is my take on this whole 'back to the vedas' call.

personally, not having sanskrit (knowingly) for 3 generations, and along with it, the vedas, all this appears more like a storm in a teapot to me. much ado about nothing.
 
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I sincerely think that will get you all the punyam that you would have got by following any of the orthodox rituals.
Ah ha biswa, sorry, there is not necessarily any "punyam" in following orthodox rituals. You see, there is the required kind of rituals like nitya/naimitika karma such as three-sandhyas, tarpanams, etc. Doing these are obligatory and no punyam for doing them although papam will accrue if you fail to do them. There are other rituals like yaga etc. that are not obligatory. These can get you some punyam, but cannot cancel out the papam of ignoring the obligatory karmas. In other words, you cannot escape the papam of ignoring the nitya/naimitika karmas because you perform even boat load of good and kind deeds.

Sorry :(
 

kunjuppu

Active member
Ah ha biswa, sorry, there is not necessarily any "punyam" in following orthodox rituals. You see, there is the required kind of rituals like nitya/naimitika karma such as three-sandhyas, tarpanams, etc. Doing these are obligatory and no punyam for doing them although papam will accrue if you fail to do them. There are other rituals like yaga etc. that are not obligatory. These can get you some punyam, but cannot cancel out the papam of ignoring the obligatory karmas. In other words, you cannot escape the papam of ignoring the nitya/naimitika karmas because you perform even boat load of good and kind deeds.

Sorry :(

oh my god!

oh my GOD!!

OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we are all sinners eh!! just heard over the radio, advertising moksham for sinners..but different god though :)
 

prasad1

Active member
Every religion survives on loading the follower with guilt. In my version of Hinduism there is no room for papam and punyam, only karmas.

I can not give explanation in English of this beautiful song that expresses my opinion of Pap and Punya.




Ye paap hai kya, ye punya hai kya; reeton per dharm ki mohrein hain
Har yug mein badlte dharmon ko, kaise adarsh banoge




Ye bhog bhi ek tapsaya hai, tum tyag ke mare kya jano
Apman racheta ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraoge
Sansar se bhage…





[video=youtube;sNCqTht_Oj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sNCqTht_Oj8[/video]
 

prasad1

Active member
கால பைரவன்;199132 said:
My opinion is that, if people can be arranged in a line from orthodox to "reformed", it is the "reformed" who attack the orthodox and it is seldom the other way around.

I do not know that I am "reformed" I do know that I am not "orthodox". I do not attack the "orthodox" as long as they do not attack, or criticize, me or my ways.

I have relatives who are "orthodox in my view", I respect their ways. I tolerate (more like accommodate) their views. But when they try to impose their views, I put my foot down.
 
கால பைரவன்;199132 said:
My opinion is that, if people can be arranged in a line from orthodox to "reformed", it is the "reformed" who attack the orthodox and it is seldom the other way around.
Hi KB, if by reformed you mean those who make up their own version of "Hinduism" on an a la carte basis, then they criticizing the orthodox is just hypocrisy. I have some pity/sympathy for the orthodox as they at least willingly undergo the rigors of their Brahmin birth, but the reformed ones want none of the rigors but want to maintain caste purity.

thanks ...
 

kunjuppu

Active member
கால பைரவன்;199132 said:
My opinion is that, if people can be arranged in a line from orthodox to "reformed", it is the "reformed" who attack the orthodox and it is seldom the other way around.

I do not know that I am "reformed" I do know that I am not "orthodox". I do not attack the "orthodox" as long as they do not attack, or criticize, me or my ways.

I have relatives who are "orthodox in my view", I respect their ways. I tolerate (more like accommodate) their views. But when they try to impose their views, I put my foot down.

sorry KB,

i am more with prasad in this one.

as you know with views, which are often contrary to maintaining values, just because they are the tradition. many a times, i think, our religion, with its built in caste hierarchy, does not care enough about the society, the poor, the unwanted, the abandoned and above all, deliberately created a class called panchamas.

along the way, our society also created subgroups of exploited... the devadasis come to my mind now. under the guise of religion, and 'wedded' to god, these girls were exploited sexually and monetarily. it took some courageous women like muthulakshmi reddi and others, to end this system. but there is a tendency, even now to paint a rosy picture of this, as is evidenced by sornamalaya's lectures, the most recent one at mgr university.

it is much like the white folks in the usa, who now present slavery as a kind paternalistic all caring cradle to grave arrangement for the blacks. well we all know, the truth is far from it, as is evidenced by the civil war in the usa.

i too have relatives, as they age, have been moving towards religion, poojas and yagams. along with it, what i find most uncomfortable, is their calcification of social attitudes. somehow, when the meat alcohol women left their lives, so too went the tolerance compassion and above all willingness to accommodate other pov.

i dont intend to provoke you or anyone else. these are my personal experiences. ofcourse others may be different.

one little example. raji here, i would consider fairly traditonal lady by my standards. but even she was wont to protest at the edict of the OP here regarding women. i think that itself says a lot about our traditionalist conservatives. because once we start on the way to 'purity', we cannot put a brake at a point, but have to keep on moving towards the 'absolute purity' point, as each and every perceived transgression becomes a black mark which needs to be wiped away. only to be replaced by another one, which needs further wiping. and so on. and on. and on....

peace.
 
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