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Need of the hour for Tamil Brahmins is to increase their population

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SuryaKasyapa

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In today's world , to get favourable decisions and actions, number might is a must.

More Quality also comes from more quantity only.

Tamil Brahmin community is not able to get things and decisions in their favour from political establishments mainly because of their miniscule population.

So ,to save the community from extinction and to exist,survive and surge ahead,the TBs have necessarily to increase in numbers.

I seek the full engagement of the community towards this and seek views thru the forum


Namaskarams
 
How is it possible? Almost every family goes for one or two child. We have to improve the quality rather than quantity.

The community is also migrating globally and hence getting dispersed. Dr.Venkataraman Ramakrishnan was able to win nobel prize because he was allowed to do his research in a conducive environment. Imagine a situation if he has continued in India. Probably he may be teaching chemistry in a college throughout his career.

Let us accept the fact that we will be a miniscule poulation and unless conversion to brahmin is made, we cannot get strenght. But we can continue to produce eminent scientists and scholars in other fields. For that we have to migrate to places where environment and atmosphere are conducing for research and development.

All the best
 
Unity is need of hour

Dear Suryakasyaba,

You may right, but what is the number today we have nobody have the complete details, we lack in unity, divided into lot of sections. I beleive this much of sections didn't exist in the past.

Each and every section of brahmins feels they are the superior and they are not ready to unite. If they unite apart from the numbers we will gat everything.

Namaskarams,
Sathya

In today's world , to get favourable decisions and actions, number might is a must.

More Quality also comes from more quantity only.

Tamil Brahmin community is not able to get things and decisions in their favour from political establishments mainly because of their miniscule population.

So ,to save the community from extinction and to exist,survive and surge ahead,the TBs have necessarily to increase in numbers.

I seek the full engagement of the community towards this and seek views thru the forum


Namaskarams
 
Dear Suryakasyaba,

You may right, but what is the number today we have nobody have the complete details, we lack in unity, divided into lot of sections. I beleive this much of sections didn't exist in the past.

Each and every section of brahmins feels they are the superior and they are not ready to unite. If they unite apart from the numbers we will gat everything.

Namaskarams,
Sathya

TB population is estimated at 3% of the total population in Tamilnadu. It was 4% earlier but has dropped to 3%. It may drop further also in the future as younger generation is moving out of the state and country. We are miniscule in Tamilnadu and elsewhere and we cannot do any thing on political front.
 
If we increase in quantity... how to feed them...???
Will Govt / Other community support to increase the quantity....

I think moderators shud look into these issues before posting such forums....

thank you swami.

please be assured that the moderators keep an eye on all threads and postings.

the originator of this thread suryakasyapa, like yourself included, is also a bona fide member of the forum.

we should permit him to start the thread.

please feel free to comment on the topic. there is nothing in it, that the thread should be banned or closed, we feel.

inability to feed a growing population may be an arguement in your reply, but definitely not a reason, for the moderator to intervene.

thank you.
 
I quote from RV’s post
[FONT=&quot]“How is it possible? Almost every family goes for one or two child. We have to improve the quality rather than quantity[/FONT]


Absolutely right sir, almost every family goes for one(not even two) child. This was due to the brainwashing influence of the ‘Family Planning Drive”. Brahmin couples thought of “quality” by reducing “quantity” .Where we stand ? Where is the quality? But at the same time quantity drastically reduced. Ramanujams,C V Ramans, Rajaji’s ,C P Ramaswamy Iyers ( sorry if I miss some other names here-this jus for analogy only) were all product of the “quantity” era only. We saw, and still seeing the tapering off effect.

In international sports, China is overtaking all other countries by sending large contingent of participants. From this, they bring wins. Only from quantity quality comes. Otherwise it is only exceptions.

“ Let us accept the fact that we will be a miniscule poulation and unless conversion to brahmin is made, we cannot get strenght.”

While starting the thread, I honestly had this in mind,but I did not want to open it myself at the outset, and wanted it o be emerged from ideas of members. I still welcome members to deliberate on this point more.(because, to make a new generation it may take 18-25 yrs,18 being the age for voting-so we have to find quick yielding solutions. Allow me to coin a word “CONVINSION” instead of conversion- because we may transform others willing and convincing.

Quote from Sri RV “We are miniscule in Tamilnadu and elsewhere and we cannot do any thing on political front.”

Quote from Sri Sathya “If they unite apart from the numbers we will gat everything.”

Political establishment starts from Panchayat,Municipa,Corporation ward and divisions. Just a 100 or less votes can tilt win in these.Doesn't TB members have sufficient strength to elect a few ward members as start? Then ,during the last Lok Sabha elections in Kerala I read in internet and newspapers, opinions from Non-resident Keralites deciding to come to their home town only for voting , so that they want to choose their own candidates.Can’t TB members think and act similarly?

Things may not happen overnight by itself.But yes a strong will and focussed unified action can make this happen. Let this TB.com be a ignition to that start.

(I copy RV,s usual quote from Rig Veda: " Let noble thoughts come from every side” -
yes from from every member.
Greetings
 
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Allow me to coin a word “CONVINSION” instead of conversion- because we may transform others willing and convincing.

In stead of trying to "convinsion" others, how about Brahmins convincing themselves and convert to a casteless state. As the adage goes, சிறு துளி பெருவெள்ளம், if Brahmins change one at a time, a great future awaits the Indian Tamil society, one without any TBs.

Cheers!
 
Predictably Nara has come with his post on his one-point pet theme. While I really fel envious on his pereverence to propogate his view and thought, I also request our forum members not to fall for his bait and respond , as the intention for such post is to derail any attempts by the community members to get focused and organised , by putting forth such Utopian bits so that at some weak moment some good soul will hook to it.

Treating the same as a comic interlude, Members please concentrate and deliberate on the many issues and possible solutions to the problems faced by TB community.

Once again let us prove the adage "Union is Strenghth" by thi forum and and subsequent positive developments.

Greetings.
 
Predictably Nara has come with his post on his one-point pet theme. While I really fel envious on his pereverence to propogate his view and thought, I also request our forum members not to fall for his bait and respond , as the intention for such post is to derail any attempts by the community members to get focused and organised , by putting forth such Utopian bits so that at some weak moment some good soul will hook to it.

Treating the same as a comic interlude, Members please concentrate and deliberate on the many issues and possible solutions to the problems faced by TB community.

Once again let us prove the adage "Union is Strenghth" by thi forum and and subsequent positive developments.

Greetings.

surya,

i am not so sure where you are coming from, re 'union in strength'.

past, i have found, that this is a call by the reactionary and retro elements, trying to justify the status quo, and fighting a vanguard battle filled with hate.

i am quite sure, that you do not mean that.

i have a request for you, to explain specifically what your stated goals are.

be realistic. set yourself for success. also remember to keep in line with the Tamil Brahmin tradition.

not the pan brahmin call of the extreme wings, who have their own agenda. these are folks, in whose fire, you are sacrificed as the night fly which gets attracted by the light, but unaware of the heat.

re nara: i agree with you, his ideals are utopian.

if we do not aim for the sky, how will we even reach the himalayas.

i do object to many of nara's language, but in many a case, i find agreeing with his goals. this is a personal thing.

the bottom line, is that, in order to make a difference, and in order to make a mark, we need to rise above the run-of-the-mill arguements.

nara is harping on one of those. in my opinion, he needs to learn, how to dish out a spoonful of sugar, in order to make the medicine go down.

a good exercise, for a venerable professor, won't you say?
 
Predictably Nara has come with his post on his one-point pet theme.

Hello and greetings!

Being against the so called Brahminism is indeed important to me, but that has hardly been my only pet-peeve :).

If I state anything that is not true or not logical please engage me and we can debate it out. But I can't help if you don't like what I am saying. Why blame me, I am just carrying a message. Just step out of your cocoon and talk to members of other "communities" and do some soul searching to figure out why your "CONVINSION" is so misguided and hypocritical.

I am open to accept any criticism, but so far, all I have found are ad hominems against me without a peep from anybody -- but that is alright I can take it. If you keep it civil we can have a conversation, or else, that is alright too.

Cheers!
 
re nara: i agree with you, his ideals are utopian.

nara is harping on one of those. in my opinion, he needs to learn, how to dish out a spoonful of sugar, in order to make the medicine go down.

a good exercise, for a venerable professor, won't you say?

Perhaps I should feel flattered that I have become the topic of discussion between two erudite, wise, and thoughtful members of this forum, but I rather stick to the matter than personalities. Thank you.
 
"Ad-hominum" (From Wikipedia):

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person" or "argument against the person") is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of a person advocating the premise[1]. The ad hominem argument is not a fallacy despite there being fallacious instances of the argument."

I am sure the learned professor is referring to my calling out his statements as 'illogical' and 'irrational'. Instead of asking me to explain why I said those words, he is calling those words as belonging to 'uncivilized' behaviour.

But then he continues to make statements, especially about the USA, that are open to challenge. If he does not want to answer the challenge and wants to hide behind the facade of righteous indignation, it is up to him.

I will keep on countering the statements. 'The left wing idealogue' comment is not to negate his arguments. It is to charecterize his arguments, which a group of 'intellectuals' in the USA (especially from the academic circles) make, so that people understand the context from which his ideas come from. I do not vilify a 'left wing idealogue'. I can perfectly elaborate why his statements and arguments belong to this category.

Instead of standing up for his statements when challenged, he is asking the members to come to his aid from a rabid member like me! Anyone challenging his idea becomes a personal attacker! How convenient!

Regards,
KRS
 
Is the call for Tamil Brahmins 'not to be' a valid one? Do all 'other' jathis and communities in Tamil Nadu want the community to vanish in to the great mileu of Tamilians, without any trace of the so called 'Brahminism'?

To make a statement that the Tamil Brahmins should 'voluntarily' give up their 'caste' is not only utopian, it is also against identifying the unique culture as well. Just because a problem exists within our religion, created by the 'jathi' way of thinking and the unspoken horrors perpetrated against a group of people (which is shameful), we are asked to bear the burden of voluntarily doing a hara-kiri and declare that we are not Brahmins anymore! Never mind that all other Jathis will not accept this and even if we go on the tallest Gopurum of the Srirangam temple and shout to our heart's content that 'we are not brahmins'! Alas, the Dalits will be no better.

This is the fallacy of this argument. That by abolishing the Brahmins, the jathi system will go away, because, of course we are the so called social leaders. This has ceased a long time ago. The situation will not improve unless ALL Hindus think of themselves as Indians first and Hindus second.

We have members in this Forum who are very orthodox. It is within every person's right to live as they wish. with belief in whatever they want, as long as they do not discriminate against others in the public life. And there are laws to prevent such behaviours.

May I remind our members that in the not too a distant past, we had an avowed 'neutral' guy from a different religion, whose sole aim was not to learn about us as claimed - but to push an anti Hindu agenda, as enumerated by Kanacha Illaiah, in his book 'Why I am not a Hindu'. He could not and would not stand up for his arguments, instead 'selectively' arguing and having a hidden agenda as we found out.

I am okay with folks having radical ideas. But let us not confuse that with apologizing for our community as though we have done total wrong to the society. Mao did that and paraded the intellectuals in dunce caps and banishing them to hard labour. Who suffered more?

This is why simple stements like "Brahmins should reject their caste and should do so voluntarily" do not make any sense. Like communism and socialism, this is an 'idealogical' position without any connection to reality or to the human condition that celebrates culture and identity. The only way this can happen is through violence that came out of the most idealistic systems like communism, which are against human nature.

Sorry, I reject the call for rejecting our culture and identity. I do not discriminate against anyone. And if someone wants to take away my right to be a Tamil Brahmin, with what all it signifies to my sense of it, then I will fight against it, and I will reject it.

Regards,
KRS
 
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Let us accept the fact that we cannot increase the population of our community unless a great reformer like Mahan Ramanujar comes to us and converts other community people to our community.

Intercaste marriages are more prevalent right now as compared to earlier days. Atleast we should accept the other community member as well as children born to the couple as our community members.

We have to start alliances with Brahmins of other states. I earnestly feel that there is no harm in marrying from our community members belonging to north india or other southern states.

On the other side, our community members are dispersed throughout the globe. Personally my own relatives are there in USA, Europe, Gulf, Singapore and Australia. There are several others outside Tamilnadu also. All my three children are outside Tamilnadu.

My earnest appeal to our fellow members is `move out of Tamilnadu' as much as possible. If possible move out of the country also. At the same time, don't forget the roots. By doing this, we may not be a political force anywhere in the world. But we should be a force both educationally and economically. We should encourage our youngsters to become entreprenuers and move up the ladder further.

Brahmin population in Tamilnadu is coming down every day. I strongly feel it is good for our community. The quality of education in India as well Tamilnadu is going down steadily. Why should we fight against reservation for inferior quality education? Let other castes fight among themselves. Let us watch it from the sidelines.

We have already given up Govt jobs including public sector jobs. Private jobs is the only attraction for our community members within India. Self employed is another option.

Let us bother about quality rather than quantity.

All the best
 
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Where is the motivation dear Surya ji ??
- Whenever i feel like adding a couple of kids more from my account to our TB community , I can only hear reengaram in my ears of the famous proverb " Pathinaaru petru platformil vazhgha !"..
 
Perhaps I should feel flattered that I have become the topic of discussion between two erudite, wise, and thoughtful members of this forum, but I rather stick to the matter than personalities. Thank you.

no overt discussing you here nara. we were describing your ideas as utopian. we did not indicate that you were one.

without permission, and with humble request,i republish a section of krs' reply to you. i could not have said it better...

This is why simple stements like "Brahmins should reject their caste and should do so voluntarily" do not make any sense. Like communism and socialism, this is an 'idealogical' position without any connection to reality or to the human condition that celebrates culture and identity. The only way this can happen is through violence that came out of the most idealistic systems like communism, which are against human nature.

perhaps you might remember my remark on 'those throwing stones to demolish, might do good, by bringing the instruments to mend'.

to clarify that.. perhaps while i implicitly agree with you in your views, what i have found are no practical, acceptable, 'set up to win' type of suggestions.

a blanket statement that brahmins should give up caste, for all the good that it claims, is a scream inside a vacuum chamber. - not heard and not executable.

if i were challenged in a பட்டி மன்றம் to come up with 3 suggestions that brahmins could initiate to abolish caste... i would have a tough time.

to start off, there are no credible brahmin leaders whom a majority of TBs can in the least respect.

so it has to become a grass root movement. which is probably a good thing.

can i think of grass root changes in TB thinking the past century? yes. let me list a few.

- willingness to migrate far and wide in search of opportunities: starting in the 1920s to farthest north and west of india, ceylon, burma, malaya. this for a community, which had more restrictions crossing the borders of agraharam to the cheri. nowadays, the whole world is our backyard, literally speaking.

- involvement in the independence movement on a fervent and devout scale. above all, following the path of gandhi, who is a baniya, and not a brahmin.

- educating our daughters on par with our sons. personally, i love this the best

- family planning: i remember mid 50s, in congress exhibition, my parents used to leave me outside care of the staff, and attend family planning info sessions. of the lower middle class, for the first time, my TB parents, were thinking of quality for one as opposed to fulfilment in numbers.

nara, you see what i am getting at, when i mean grass root almost unanimous transformation. i strongly believe that had there been any dissonance emanating from the mutt heads, in as far as the above changes, TBs would have ignored it.

much like today's catholics ignoring the pope's views on family planning or abortion. in that context, the absence of credible religious hierarchy may be indeed a blessing.

ofcourse, when the aforesaid revolutionary practices were exercised, the focus was on the primary goal. the residual side effects were not much thought through, i think.

which is why we have the lament over some of the side effects which are experiencing today: the dearth of brides for our boys, the declining practising of rituals, the almost total absence of tamil as a linguistic culture in our day to day life and certainly certain food habits.

incidentally, i am quite sure you have noticed, that TBs settled in US/Canada, their children have cast aside casteism. from what i have seen, not even 1 out of 10 TB marriages of kids brought up here, is within our caste. am i correct to say, that the TBs of north america have eschewed casteism?

so you see nara, much as we would like to flatter you by discussing you as a topic, we have to disappoint you on that front.

you are far too much alike any of us, to warranty a separate discussion figurehead. all we were asking is for you to translate your architectural plans into solid brick & mortar structure, for us to seek shelter and cuddle. :)

bestest regards.

ps.. what i am looking from you, is thinking along the spirit of this post of mine, and cook some flavoured dishes to change the mental palate of our brethren in tamil nadu, india, singapore, malaysia... for whom caste is a reality to live with on a daily basis.

jsut as you would end your posts.... cheers

 
Dear Kunjuppu,

Greetings!

I am glad to note that I was not the topic -- you two camouflaged it very well, I tell you, you really fooled me :)

You are expecting way too much from me. Haven’t you heard the adage, those who can’t teach! I am just a fellow traveler, lived and living a full life, and now and then having a chat, passing the time, and may be some g*s as well.

Dear Kunjuppu, you listed all the ways the Brahmin community has adopted/changed with the times. That is good. But, some would say that Brahmins adapt to changing environment like a chameleon, and they usually don’t mean it as a complement. IMHO, any change in the right direction is welcome, whatever be the motivation. But, what I find, within my family, friends, and here in this forum -- TBs brought up in India, give a lot of justification to those who use the chameleon analogy.

Having benefited from centuries of discriminatory practices, now most TBs want to just wash their hands of any responsibility, but cite superior achievements to clan identity. I am openly challenging this view, not as often as it is expressed, and yet people say I am “predictable”, “spewing”, blah blah blah. In fact, if you listen to a southern red-neck defend their “heritage” it will sound a lot like the Brahmins who extol in their clan identity here in this forum.

Dear Sir, you ask me to come with a spoon full of sugar, I have none. Treat me like canary in a coal mine. Continuation of caste identity, unifying on the basis of caste, etc. will only bring more hardships on the poor TBs, the rich and the middle-class will find a way, some way to escape, migrated to US, Canada, or whatever.

with best regards, cheers optional :)
 
Dear Kunjuppu,

...Continuation of caste identity, unifying on the basis of caste, etc. will only bring more hardships on the poor TBs, the rich and the middle-class will find a way, some way to escape, migrated to US, Canada, or whatever.

nara,

i could not agree with you more, as i have echoed the same sentiments.

yet, you disappoint me immensely, by insisting that you would stand outside and harp continuously on the problem, instead of being part of the solution.

no excuses, of your references to adages is convincing or fair to the forum.

let me emphasise, that we expect more of you. i sincerely request you to plunge in with suggestions and solutions.

do not keep harping on the evils of casteism in a monotonous tone. all you are doing is raising the defences against folks who are honourable and feel either targetted, or feel obliged to defend something that they may not necessarily or whole heartedly support.

it is solutions to set up for success that we need.

as mr. micawber said to the boy who swallowed a penny, 'OUT WITH IT'..
 
it is solutions to set up for success that we need.

as mr. micawber said to the boy who swallowed a penny, 'OUT WITH IT'..

Aren't you an optimist!!

The solutions I have on offer are not liked very much by anyone here. It is somewhat like the current US healthcare debate, a single-payer medicare for all kind of system is the best, but there is more chance of sun rising from the west than this hapening. US congress may even enact a medicare-for-all system but this forum will not look kindly on my suggestions in this regard. Even people who tend to agree with me in principle on this topic think my ideas are Utopian :) (just a friendly dig)

Even so, since you insist, let me suggest a few small steps for any interested person to look into:

[1] Go outside the bounds of traditional "wisdom" about caste issues and try to find out, with an open mind, why Brahmins and Brahminism are disliked, more like hated, so much in Tamilnadu.

[2] If there are mixed marriages in the family give your loving support to the couple.

[3] If you know of youngsters wanting to marry outside the caste talk to the parents and try to be supportive of the youngsters.

[4] Talk to Dalit activists from your poorviga village and find out how you can help.

[5] If you are a doctor or a lawyer, see whether you can offer free clinics for the benefit of poor Dalits in villages.

(Don't do #4 and #5 in the name of any religious or caste organization.)

I am sure other more creative people of this forum can come up with much better ideas if only they are so inclined.

Cheers!
 
Prof Nara ji,

My comments are in blue.

Aren't you an optimist!!

The solutions I have on offer are not liked very much by anyone here. It is somewhat like the current US healthcare debate, a single-payer medicare for all kind of system is the best, but there is more chance of sun rising from the west than this hapening. US congress may even enact a medicare-for-all system but this forum will not look kindly on my suggestions in this regard. Even people who tend to agree with me in principle on this topic think my ideas are Utopian :) (just a friendly dig)

Even so, since you insist, let me suggest a few small steps for any interested person to look into:

[1] Go outside the bounds of traditional "wisdom" about caste issues and try to find out, with an open mind, why Brahmins and Brahminism are disliked, more like hated, so much in Tamilnadu.

I have spent my entire life in Tamilnadu and I have close friends in DK,DMK and AIADMK but none of them are coming out with proper explanation why they are indulging in Brahmin bashing. They started from justice party days `brahmin bashing' which they are practicing on competitive oneupmanship basis. Only few are still holding onto their regular habit of Brahmin bashing and majority don't have any any anti-brahmin sentiment.But still they don't want to be seen openly supporting our community.
[2] If there are mixed marriages in the family give your loving support to the couple.

This is a hypothetical question. Let us decide on the case as and when it happens

[3] If you know of youngsters wanting to marry outside the caste talk to the parents and try to be supportive of the youngsters.

Again it is a hypothetical question. Let us decide as and when they want support for such an incident. I have three children coming up for marriage during the next five or six years and if they come out with such a proposal, let me decide on the merit of case. The `merit of the case theory' is applicable for within TB community also

[4] Talk to Dalit activists from your poorviga village and find out how you can help.

I am personally in touch with the daliths in my native village.Infact when land ceiling was introduced, my father gave up the lands to daliths which is still being appreciated. But other caste hindus are unhappy that Brahmins are supporting Daliths

[5] If you are a doctor or a lawyer, see whether you can offer free clinics for the benefit of poor Dalits in villages.

TB community of our native village is still running a school eventhough more than 90% of our community has left the village. Only other community members are studying. The land belongs to TB community and if we want, we can get the school derecognised and withdraw the land but we are still running the school for the benefit of other communities.

(Don't do #4 and #5 in the name of any religious or caste organization.)

I am sure other more creative people of this forum can come up with much better ideas if only they are so inclined.

My personal experience is daliths don't have anti-brahmin attitude excepting a few. But caste hindus have a hidden agenda. They don't want brahmins to prosper and at the same time they don't want daliths to come up. Lot of caste hindus have obtained SC community certificate from Tahsildar in Chennai City & suburbs and are misusing the previlages meant for daliths. Only dalith upliftment will create a better environment. But Dravidian parties don't want dalith upliftment and are still keeping them illeterate which I am sure is going to change in the next few decades

Cheers!
 
Namaskarams
I am happy that the discussion is going on and is gathering momentum. I am happy that concurring and opposing views are presented. Boquets ,brickbats ,realistic assessment ..all are inherent and expected. But I am happy that some signs of good points gradually emerging from the churning.
When I started the thread, I did not start with any unrealistic imagination of TB community adding strength in billions overnight. This concern of dwindling numbers is agitating the minds of the many community members over last few years. I could participate in some such local gatherings wherein the statistics available with local chapters of TB community were discussed. The elders gave call to the youth in this regard. However, the matter did not get its due attention and momentum it needed further. Now as there is a distant indication of some focal point developing , the TB com a facilitating platform.I thought to introduce the same for honest debate and in the hope that some concrete results of action plan and better reach will emerge.
The concern in dwindling population is not just restricted to TBs alone.The Parsis ,in India, are really concerned ,and the Parsi Panchayat has come out with encouraging ways appealing to their community. China is reviewing its earlier plan of one-child norms. Some European countries are worried about the increasing ratio of old persons , and dwindling birth ratio.A woman political leader in a western country has openly called their citizen “ to go and do it” to increase population. Hence it is not a narrow concept for TB s. Our fault is that we did not start planning early and probably did not have vision of things going to happen.We were shy to show own our own concerns for fear of branding casteist by pseudos. I am posting this explanatory elaboration ,s one or two posts had doubts about my goal or intention. Yes,I am really concerned. If we do not do something positive, our future. generations may find it hard to live with their values and ways of living ,cherished by all in their mind, and may be just annihilated. And we will never be pardoned.

Let us be convinced that we are absolutely right morally , socially and legally(if we function within the law of the land wherever we stay) on all our actions and thoughts
to the betterment of our TB community. We owe no apology to any one , as we are not doing anything wrong. Our reactions are because of the wrongs being done to us.And only as a means for self preservation. Let us have this conviction.

I agree with some posts in the point that we should assimilate intercaste marriage entrants to our community.This almost a fait accompli Except few instances here and there generally this is happening. But we should take initiative to get that recorded in official records. Official records should swell ,if we have to convince establishment. Let us start even from retrospective effect. Many people may not know the legal ways to do that. I request members with legal expertise to contribute to that point.
Another point I suggest is –adoption.
Let us deliberate on this. Points do not end here. I don’t want to put everything myself and make it as one-sided essay or statement. My interest is the active involvement of all members and permeation of the interest and effect to maximum , thereby leading to result oriented action at individual level first and cascading effect to the community.
Greetings.
 
Prof Nara ji,

This is in addition to what I have written earlier. The educational system in India has failed particularly at school level. I invite you to read the following article of Sri S.A.Iyer in Times of India, today edition.

Accidental world record in school choice?:Swaminomics:S A Aiyar's blog-The Times Of India

I earnestly feel that TB community should enter and run schools on chartable basis for the entire society. Since Governments both at Centre and state have failed, it will create lot of good will apart from changing the political equations within Tamilnadu.

All the best
 
surya,

thank you for opening up this topic. this is among my pet ones.

i have often referred to the need of TBs to augment their numbers, in many a posts, often in the context of the pathetic state of many of our boys bereft of a spouse of their choice.

my solution suggestions have been consistent: look outside the caste.

if you do not feel radical to venture too far from familiarity, look for brides among the pillais and mudaliars. barring the non veg branches of mudaliars, these groups have identical values to us and are saivites.

on a personal level, there is a lot of goodwill and bring the bride to familiarization of our unique practices - the only one that is distinct, that i can think of is tharpanams and its elaboration in a shraddham.

another alternate is to seek brahmin brides from other states. there need not be more affinity here, though it might assuage our prejudicial heritage.

i would go for the bride from within other tamil tribes.

surya, this i say without meaning offense to anyone ..

there is this mystical 'respect' bandied about here for 'elders', by which i understand, folks above a certain age...let us put an arbitray number 75.

it might behoove well of us to remember, the 75s of today, were the youths of the 1950s, my parents and their generation, who broke from the long standing tradition of raising large families.

i can remember standing outside the family planning booth in the congress exhibitions of 1950s, in the company of the greeter, while my folks went inside, and came back discussing stuff in whispers.

i was not allowed any questions, and neither did i know, that decisios of great consequences to the community were being made, in the interest of not only my own quality of upbringing, but incidentally also probably disastrous to our community in terms of numbers.

so surya, it is those today's elders who are the cause of our predicament. not today's youths.

today's youths are the victims, and i am often surprised, at the indignation of some of these elders, at the scarcity of eligible girls, or even more the perceived arrogance and 'demands' of our fair maidens.

there is an old adage, that you reap what you sow. or in this case, you cannot reap what you did not sow?

personally, i think, we have passed the point of no return of replenishing our stock, to the levels of yore. this, i attribute, mainly to the mindset of having/not having children, and this attitude has now seeped through atleast 3 or 4 generations.

the good news, is that while we may be among the first such communities in india with this trend, there are others who are also experiencing the same trend. in fact, tamil nadu, right across socio religious lines, is the leader in india for population mamangement.

i do not think it is a profitable exercise to view the future with alarm. we are viewing future through the current eyes. it might take a different set of parameters to come up with a realistic prediction of what lays in store for our community.

please remember, barring wars and revolutions, changes in society happens gradually, so that it is spared the shock of divisive changes.

today, for example, 'love marriage' is accepted as an alternate form of choosing a mate. 100 years ago it was unknown. so, while snapshots of our society might cause us shockattacks, a movie played over the ages, might give us a warm appreciation of the process of change and how we have adapted.

probably good things will come out of our current situation. let us not waste any angst or anxieties.

thank you.
 
Dont' worry Be Happy ! -- > Take Life as it comes ! is one way of living life and the other way is of a revolutionist - I need to make the change and see through it within my lifetime ! I am ready to sacrifice my life too , if the need may arise !
Somewhere in-between is where most of us stand !
Although on the outlook we may seem to criticize and mock the cultural practices of our perusu' s , something within ourselves restricts us from deviating beyond the permissible limits , thereby we do not intentionally cause harm to our TB community !
and the last thing that we would want to do is to intentionally hurt the sentiments of the elders / periayava and maha periayava of our family and community.
So unknowingly we stay at close counters to our customs , if not during youth , atleast after we have kids , in order to make them understand and appreciate the truth behind the virtues and principles praticised in our community.
Thanks to someone in this forum , the book hindu dharma in Hinduism Sanathana Dharma and Vedanta: presented by Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham : kamakoti.org is an eye opener in this regard !
The reasoning behind practising rituals , doing pujas etc is clearly explained .
And a closing note to summarize upon the above - just for the convenience of people who begin to yawn reading long messages -- is " Bhagwad geetha 's message - Ethu nadandhadho athu nanragavey nadandhadhu ..............."
 
My comments are in blue.

Shri Venkataramani's answers have, sadly, proved the premise with which I answered Shri Kunjuppu. The lone voice of mine (like Rama in janasthanam, except, I am the rakshaha, and the rest in this forum is Rama defending caste), is a predictable harping and spewing to you all.

Mahakavi Bharathi sang about Tamiz as follows:

மெல்லத் தமிழினிச் சாகும் - அந்த
மேற்கு மொழிகள் புவிமிசை யோங்கும்

Continuing the focus on past imagined glory, community identity, uniting under caste banner will inevitably result in, paraphrasing Bharathi,

மெல்ல பிராமணத்துவமினி சாகும் - அந்த
ஏழை பிராமணனின் துயரம் மிக ஓங்கும்
தனமுடை பிராமணன் வெகு தூரம் ஓடும்

I have no more cheers to give on this topic :(
 
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