Muslims in India

[கால பைரவன்]

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We are not attempting to make all the 200+ Muslims guilty.

Both in OP and my subsequent posts, I could not see any such intentions and attempts.

I am sorry but this does not come through!

A thread is started with the title "Muslims in India". In that thread, the supposed criminality and criminal activities of muslims is discussed.

What conclusion can one come to?

Generally these threads are started with a mandatory declaration like "we are not talking about all muslims; we are talking about only those who are involved in jihad". Even such lip-service statements were missing in the initial posts.

From whatever I have read of Ravi's posts in this forum, I consider him to be a man of integrity. I am inclined to trust his words about motive or lack thereof, but posts in this thread do not back up his position.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The REAL culprit is POVERTY

Just a couple of days ago, Yamaka deemed people's belief in God to be the prime reason behind poverty. Because there cannot be any muslim who is an atheist, it is muslim's belief in Allah that is the prime culprit, if one were to accept Yamaka's premise. Consequently, for them to overcome poverty, they will have to become atheist and cease to be a muslim- i.e. a kaffir. But that is punishable by death. This is quite a conundrum.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Former Prime Minister Late Chandra Sekhar's statement is very relevant.He addressed all Hindus in India to learn to live with the Muslims
living in India."He said that when the total number of Muslims were a mere 12,000,the Hindus could not do much.Now there are more than 12 crores of Muslims in the Country and the only way to live peacefully is that every Hindu should befriend a Muslim and this way one can know and understand the other better."
Earlier I had read a news item in "Dinamalar" that there is a village called'Chandan Village' in Agra District where both the communities
are related through marriages and perfect peace prevails in the village for the past 700 years..I think the best way is to have many I/R marriages with a proviso that the couple should be allowed to retain their faith and the children given choice to choose their Faith as and when they become adults.
In every religion good,Bad people do exist.What is lacking is better understanding among people following different Faith.
I think in National interest this topic is not discussed any further.

 

[sarang]

It will be more illuminating if you post what is happening in melavisharam in vellore, tamilnadu, what is happening in coastal kerala to see the plight of hindus when muslims get more power. We need not talk about the decline if population of hindus in bangaladesh and pakistan. We need not talk about the fate of kashmiri pundits who are driven out of kashmir and are refugees with the secular government looking the other way. What is the stated aim of the holy book and the views of active religious muslims - the cleric, the fanatic and the divinely ordained? What is happening in europe?

What national interest is served by shutting our eyes and closing our years? What gandhi said - muslim are bullies; if a muslim attacks you do not resist but get killed - his version of ahimsa.

Please wake up and be prepared mentally at least to take resistant action when things tend to go bad.

Wherever muslims and christians have clout, they are openly ordered by the mosque and church whom to vote for. Recently, in the rajastan conflict between gujjars and meo muslims, what was blared out the mosque is kept out of the public; only the local gujjars and the police know what was said.

Former Prime Minister Late Chandra Sekhar's statement is very relevant.He addressed all Hindus in India to learn to live with the Muslims
living in India."He said that when the total number of Muslims were a mere 12,000,the Hindus could not do much.Now there are more than 12 crores of Muslims in the Country and the only way to live peacefully is that every Hindu should befriend a Muslim and this way one can know and understand the other better."
Earlier I had read a news item in "Dinamalar" that there is a village called'Chandan Village' in Agra District where both the communities
are related through marriages and perfect peace prevails in the village for the past 700 years..I think the best way is to have many I/R marriages with a proviso that the couple should be allowed to retain their faith and the children given choice to choose their Faith as and when they become adults.
In every religion good,Bad people do exist.What is lacking is better understanding among people following different Faith.
I think in National interest this topic is not discussed any further.

 

[sarang]

Gandhi and muslims!!!
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/HinduWoman40718.htm

And to our misfortune, Gandhi chose nehru as the first prime minister, even though almost all the district congress committees had recommended sardar vallabai patel; gandhi asked patel to withdraw his name from the list of recommended list, and patel agreed. gandhi's good and bad deeds must be put in balance and discussed together.

 

[wrongan]

There are Basque/ETA separatists of Spain, the IRA and Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. And they aren't muslims either.

----- This thread is about Muslims in India

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Siva: Your post # 15.

Can you give me "the statistics" or your "observations" on per 100,000 Muslims how many are involved in Illegal Activities?

Can you compare it to the 100,000 Hindus?

I still don't know your real motivation in talking about this topic the way you started it off, anyway I want to believe that you are not a Hindu Supremacist ...because you say so!

Wait & watch.

I am afraid you have either got me wrong or you are just exhibiting the traits we have seen with the “reformers” in this forum – just posing questions. My point has been correctly understood by Wrongan. I am not saying all Muslims are criminals. But there is a big number of Muslims in criminal activities. That number is disproportionate to the size of their population. In other words, I am looking at how many Muslims are involved per 1000 of criminals. I am not looking at out of 1000 Muslims how many are involved in crime. So, my POV is crime and not religion.

Why should you “want to” believe that I am not a Hindu “Supremacist”? Why don’t you just believe it? You may like to see my poem in the thread “என்னுடைய தமிழ்க் கவிதைகள்“where I have written a poem on religious fanaticism. It goes like this:

மதங்களின் பெயரால்
ஏனிங்கே போராட்டம்?
வீணான ஆர்ப்பாட்டம்?
--------
------

ஆதாம் ஏவாள் எந்த மதம்?
அனைவரும் இங்கே அந்த மதம்.

I go by Tagore’s words:
“….Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls…”


Remember, my thread is not AGAINST Muslims. It is ABOUT Muslims.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Siva, let us be clear, you are the first one to bring in Hindu v. Muslim, and then you glibly say, "Let us not make this debate as Hindu v/s Muslims."

I am nobody to tell you what you can or cannot discuss. All I want to do is express my concern with the title of this thread combined with the premise you have defined that is demonstrably misleading and arguably false -- it is nothing less than first convicting a beleaguered minority and then inviting like-minded people to provide the evidence.

Once again, my concern is this thread will become an avenue for all sorts of hateful accusations with no solid evidence to back them up.

Siva, please take a moment to reflect on what you are trying to achieve with this thread, and then do what you want to do, that is all I request.

Cheers!

Naraji,

I did not bring in Hindu v/s Muslim.

I do see a genuine concern in your post. To ansewer your question, "What I want to achieve?" , I just want us to reflect why the involvement of Muslim in crime in India is disproportionate to their population size. Ther is enough evidence to prove their involvement in crime. Unfortunately for the "rationalists", any evidence is no evidence.

 

[C RAVI]

Being a professor I would like to give you a homework, take a look at the terrorist incidents over the last 10 years and see how many were committed by Muslims, I bet you will be surprised. All of this is available just a few key strokes away in google.

Cheers!

Professor Nara, thank you for your free tuition and assigning home work to me that would surpirse me and enlighten me.

But since, I had enough home work during my residence in India till 2007, in all the ways with all my rational thinking and reasoning I got to know what is what and I continue to do my work in all ways and means.


The postings of reatiionalists, reformists and humanists here are all quite enough for me to get surprised.



You being a professor, I think, I can't request you to spare your precious time and substantiate your claims here through evidences that, terrorist attacks in the name of "Jihad" across the Globe were conducted by less numbers of Muslims and more of folks from other religion. But if you could do this graciously, it would enlighten all the members here and not just me.


Thank you in advance and in anticipation..

 

[renuka]

Off late its becoming increasingly hard to have a good debate with opposing views with the Fighter Pilot Shoot at Sight Syndrome spreading fast.We tend to lose interest in such debates eventually and will think "who cares..screw it..no matter what i say i will be shot at" and becos of this even healthy exchange of views are not possible.

Its more like a Video Game at times...avoiding being "killed" but at times also "strike" back.

We might itself have an interactive Video game session and shoot at each other till our hearts content.

 

[Nara]

.., I just want us to reflect why the involvement of Muslim in crime in India is disproportionate to their population size. Ther is enough evidence to prove their involvement in crime. Unfortunately for the "rationalists", any evidence is no evidence.

Siva, the fact is you have provided no evidence at all, but you are making this statement about "rationalists" -- yes I like to think I am a rationalist, but this special attention to it here looks like a mock, which BTW I don't mind, mock away.

Please provide your evidence, for 1000 crimes committed, how many are by Muslims, please.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

...Thank you in advance and in anticipation..

Sorry Ravi ....

 

[Nara]

----- This thread is about Muslims in India

Amala's response was for your ridiculous claim that all terrorists are Muslims -- for which you have not given any evidence, Amala just pointed out all these other terrorists who are not Muslims.

Please fellows, think a little before banging away in your keyboard ...

 

[C RAVI]

You being a professor, I think, I can't request you to spare your precious time and substantiate your claims here through evidences that, terrorist attacks in the name of "Jihad" across the Globe were conducted by less numbers of Muslims and more of folks from other religion. But if you could do this graciously, it would enlighten all the members here and not just me.


Thank you in advance and in anticipation..

Sorry Ravi ....

It's OK

 

[Nara]

- yet they think others are clueless!

KB, this post of yours goes to strengthen my suspicion that you are indeed clueless in these matters.

Yes, I do criticize Brahminism and the Brahminists who practice it, and I do it with logical reasons and with evidence , which may then be debated. A parallel to this is not bashing up on Muslims, here in TB.com, with no evidence at all -- without any evidence just tall claims we can only have a <edited and replaced with the next two words> heated debate, not a reasonable debate.

Go to a Muslims site, and challenge them why so many of them are criminals by providing solid evidence, that would be a parallel.

Stop taking cheap shots, you have shown yourself to be a spitball expert and that is a shame.

sidenote:- please refrain from using words that can be seen as vulgar

 

[renuka]

I wonder how many Atheist dare go to a Non Hindu Forum and challenge them by saying "There is no God?"
Wanna bet!!! 0%!!!

 

[zebra16]

.... .... .... .... ..... ...

I take strong objection to this text passage

 

[renuka]

I have edited my post since the matter is resolved.Medical terminology classes will resume whenever situation warrants.LOL!!

 

[sangom]

I am afraid you have either got me wrong or you are just exhibiting the traits we have seen with the “reformers” in this forum – just posing questions. My point has been correctly understood by Wrongan. I am not saying all Muslims are criminals. But there is a big number of Muslims in criminal activities. That number is disproportionate to the size of their population. In other words, I am looking at how many Muslims are involved per 1000 of criminals. I am not looking at out of 1000 Muslims how many are involved in crime. So, my POV is crime and not religion.

Shri Siva,

Have you cited any statistics regarding the percenatge of Muslim criminals out of every 1000 criminals, anywhere?

To my uninformed mind, it appears that this whole thread is going, right from the start, in a biased manner. May be it is true that we get to hear Muslim names in connection with some of the more publicized crimes but I do not think that Muslims are more criminal as a community. On the contrary we in Kerala have been hearing of a village (or many villages) in TN whose population all live by crime. Their favourite is theft and robbery in residences and murder is very easy for them. I think we should get some reliable statistics from Jails or Police department before we even consider such a question.

In the "penn vaaNibham" (trading in girls) cases which are now hitting the headlines in Kerala, the main agents are christian, Hindu and muslim and so are the "customers"; there is no reason to suspect that the Muslims are either more criminally inclined or less. They are very much the Indian average, imo.

 

[Nara]

I take strong objection to this text passage

narayan, in deference to your strong objection I was going to edit the phrase out, but Praveen has already done it, thank you Praveen.

May be I am not all that bright, but I am really surprised that you did not find the following objectionable, even the regular kind, not strong...

Even when there is prostitution, the agents (euphemism for pimps) often belong to Muslim religion.

and the one about pubococcygeus muscle and n-word and f-words and all that, heh, they are all okay, a fairly mild colloquial idiom is deserving of strong outrage, well, well

thank you for the education ....

 

[C RAVI]

Sri Haridasa Siva,

People who are living and lived in India for long until recently, can know what the concern is all about and how Indians who love, respect and have close friendships with many Muslims till today, can not ignore and disagree with the points highlighted by you in your OP.

I would like to bring to your attention and would like to suggest you to watch (if you have not so far) a Tamil Movie - "UNNAI POL ORUVAN" which is a remake of the original Hindi Movie - "WEDNESDAY".

The Hindi version is much better comparatively in my view. Because, the movie specifically highlights the horrific multiple terror attacks in Mumbai Metro Trains in the peek hours of evening on a weekday. Nasrudhinsha in a lead role, around whom the movie revolves, is a retired senior citizen, who gets emotionally jolted due bomb blast in a train in which he used to travel. In a metro train (at a particular time) he used to meet up with a young co passenger almost every day and develops emotional attachment just by exchanging interactions with expressions alone in the crowd and that young co-passenger dies in that blast. Nasrudinshah than carries out his mission independently for the better as the only way to uphold justice .

The highlight in climax is, when he comes face to face with the police commissioner, Nasrudinsha's uttering of his name to the PC was muted. Since we as audience know Nasrudinsha as a Muslim person in the lead role, the story and his role was very convincing and enough to highlight how Muslims in India reacts to such attacks by their fellow men.


Recently I watched another movie in Malayalam – “VIZHIGAL SAAKSHI”

In this movie Mohanlal as a Muslim is a revolutionary thinker who actively indulges in reforming the Islamic society for all better. For this, he becomes victim of a plot, played upon him by other fellow Muslims who all were against his ideologies, including one of his assistant (in his work for the betterment). They plant a bomb to blast and fix Mohanlal up as a prime culprit. Consequently he undergoes capital punishment.


--------------------------

Since terrorists networks are wide spread and are stronger with all backups, it is not so tough for the group to spread its activities with their intrusion into Indian territories and influence many young boys.

Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) established in India in 1977 for a better/positive cause was once suspected and was banned. Though the ban was than revoked, was again imposed in short notice in 2008, based on following grounds -

Source Wikipedia -

"Fears exist in some government circles that SIMI may have been operating at the influence of Al-Qaeda.[SUP][2][/SUP] Some analysts in the Indian Intelligence Bureau believe that SIMI also operates under the name of Indian Mujahideen, an outfit that has reportedly taken responsibility for the 2008 Ahmedabad blasts, Jaipur blasts and 2008 Delhi blasts.[SUP][3][/SUP] Indian Mujahideen has reportedly taken responsibility of several terrorist acts in India and communicates with the Indian media under the pseudonyms of Al-Arbi and Al-Hindi."

Students Islamic Movement of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-------------------------

Complete list of Islamic Terrorist Organizations -


Complete list of terrorist organizations world wide

Terrorism related subjects in this web site​

Hamas terrorist's blood oath to kill anyone that disagrees with them

Jihad in America. Terrorists organizations operating in America

Islamic terrorists exploit children​

Teaching hatred to their children. Future suicide bombers​

Suicide Bombers statistics. Female suicide bombers

Islamic terrorists intentionally target children

Islamic terrorist's murders world wide

The Desire of Islam; "Destroy Israel"

Israel's Victims of Terrorism List

 

[C RAVI]

Mr.Praveen,

Since so far no one has opted/requested for the closer of thread and since some members want evidences, I have posted some links in my post #46.

Excuse me, if you consider my above post offensive. I have no intention to generate criticism and opposition against Islam and its people. As a subject matter and as per demands alone I have posted some links.

Hope you can well understand this.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Go to a Muslims site, and challenge them why so many of them are criminals by providing solid evidence, that would be a parallel.

The cat is out of the bag!

What happened to all the tall claims that this is a general forum and anyone can discuss about anything here! The brabas group want separate rules - one for them, one for others!

I know this will happen some day. It is for this reason I recommended sometime back to keep this general forum separate from the rest of the tamilbrahmins.com so that it will encourage everyone to participate in such discussions. These very same members ganged up against me, then.

you have shown yourself to be a spitball expert and that is a shame.

To each his own. To me, it is Nara who appears as a spitball expert and that too only against brahmins!

 

[Nara]

... since some members want evidences, I have posted some links in my post #46.

The list of web sites posted is not evidence. For each such web site many more from the opposite side may be cited. This is the level of understanding of what evidence is.

If movies are the basis for understanding an issue why not look at Hey Ram. In any case, for proper understanding of issues we need to make reading from many sources a part of our ongoing life, if we see it as merely a burden to be endured while in college, then movies will be source of knowledge and web sites will be unimpeachable evidence.

p.s. none of links works anyway ...

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I take strong objection to this text passage

Alas! Now I will never know what was originally written!