Legalising lgbt is blasphemy of hinduism

[a-TB]

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You misunderstand what I said. I did not say I hate or cannot like gay people. Personally I show no hatred towards others nor put down their views without consideration.

I would like to not label those who practice homosexuality and let that be their distinguishing aspect of such people. There are so much to a person than his sexual preference. But the sexual preference is a perversion just as reveling in others miseries is. I condemn both and all such equally and cannot and should not be granted social approval.

No, there was no misunderstanding.
Why do you want to criminalize a behavior that causes no harm to the society and is natural?
Without hate at heart one will not do that. Also true acceptance means you dont label anyoneor condemn anyone who is causing no harm to others. Narrow mindedness is about not accepting the diversity that exists in nature.

If someone want to say they are gay so be it. Who are we to comment about that label? If they want to say they are gay or lesbians let them. If you call yourself a TB why should anyone object. This is not anything different. They never said that gayness is their only distinguishing aspect. You are the one having issues with the term represented by each letters of LGBTQ.

Sexual preference is not a perversion because they caused no harm to you or anyone. To think they are abnormal and perverted is the real perversion because such people are dangerous to the society. All hate crimes start by declaring others as perverted or infidel or unfit or abnormal or whatever. Why should you condemn anyone when they are causing no issues to you.. Since your condemnation of innocent people is like that of Hitler , that kind of thinking is a threat to the society and hence it is a genuine perversion.

 

[renuka]

Hey guys! Everyone has sex..its as simple as that.

If LGBT is perversion...then so is heterosexual sex! The Halal squad here is saying LGBT is pervesion..if the squad is so pure..they should only be fornicating only for progeny and not pleasure but I am 100% sure thats not what anyone does.

So guys..that way everyone is a pervert!

 

[prasad1]

When "sati" was outlawed, some Hindus claimed it was blasphemy. But the British government did it. That was the right thing to do.

When the child marriage ban was written in the constitution, some objected. Thank Nehru and his government to stand tall and force it. That was the good thing, wish they would enforce it.

So this idea that something that, we the people of the society want is blasphemy is atrocious.

Every issue can have pro and cons at a social level, there is no need to bring religion into it.

 

[a-TB]

Hey guys! Everyone has sex..its as simple as that.

If LGBT is perversion...then so is heterosexual sex! The Halal squad here is saying LGBT is pervesion..if the squad is so pure..they should only be fornicating only for progeny and not pleasure but I am 100% sure thats not what anyone does.

So guys..that way everyone is a pervert!

I could not have expressed better than this.

 

[a-TB]

Personally, in this forum, I am appalled at the self appointed moral police with hate messages for those who are not like them.

Hinduism teaches acceptance at all levels, I think.

Recently my neighbor took a large pumpkin to carve it with a knife and this pumpkin just collapsed because it was rotten at the core with putrid smell all over. The pumpkin had nice exterior and one would not have imagined how corrupt and spoiled its core was. I am just reminded about that incident when I come across religionists, self appointed spiritualists and those who claim to chant God's name all the time.

 

[renuka]

[video=youtube_share;MkrwDvgNRjY]https://youtu.be/MkrwDvgNRjY[/video]

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear GNANA SUNYAM:We all enjoy anonymity in this forum. I value that just like you do. But without letting go of your privacy , could you please state if you are a Hindu. The title and some of your statements can be better understood if we know your religious background. If you are a Christian or Christian sympathizer or have other agenda, the forum rules allow full membership to you (I think(. It is all about certain level of transparency needed for a good discussion.

Dear Mr a-TB,

Quoting your statement, 'we all enjoy anonymity.....like you do'. do just that.

please refrain from uncivilized queries/probes absolutely irrelevant to this thread in particular and to this forum in general. frankly you have no business to probe into my identity. hence don't make desperate attempts to know my identity any further. my identity is none of your business.

this forum is not to parade your paranoids.

I hold you in some esteem. maintain that. I nevertheless appreciate your posts and arguments.

I am not a robot lest you have any misgivings/apprehensions. if you do not find this sufficient for a good discussion, perhaps you are incompetent or perhaps you have some sinister/hidden agenda, which I cannot help.

we are here to share our opinions, free to agree/disagree with each other, argue/counter-argue with each other. do just that. we are not personally combating here trying to prove our point and win trophies. even you and I have understood and agreed with each other and you have even advocated for me on some topics in some earlier threads.

there are some who are in agreement with me in this thread but disagree in other threads and vice versa.

read and understand posts dispassionately, unyielding to emotions.

God has absolutely nothing to do with any religion. man made religions. you can never know God personally through any religion or philosophy or any school of thought/yoga/meditation. but that is an entirely different topic of discussion perhaps for another thread.

My views about God and religion does not disqualify me from starting this thread however.

it is you who has been pronouncing that criminalizing lgbtq is pro-christian and you are yet to substantiate with evidence from christian scriptures. however I never jumped to any conclusion about your religious identity nor am I interested to know it. I can have a good discussion with you though.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

When "sati" was outlawed, some Hindus claimed it was blasphemy. But the British government did it. That was the right thing to do.

When the child marriage ban was written in the constitution, some objected. Thank Nehru and his government to stand tall and force it. That was the good thing, wish they would enforce it.

So this idea that something that, we the people of the society want is blasphemy is atrocious.

Every issue can have pro and cons at a social level, there is no need to bring religion into it.

I appreciate this healthy argument.

'.... there is no need to bring religion into it' , point merits consideration.

'so this idea .....is atrocious'. recently when the current communist kerala government advised the sabarimala devaswom board to permit women of all ages into the temple, the religious fanatics cried foul. your post reminds me of that.

you mean to say, what is blasphemy and what is not blasphemy is a subjective perception. is my interpretation of your post correct sir?

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Mr Sravana:
Nature is known by what we sense and by laws of nature we identify. Constructive or destructive is a point of view. Floods kill but it can also refresh soil for propagation of life. Same with Volcanoes.

Nature does not have ego but humans do, who are arrogant to think they control the nature.

Nature can never be controlled. One law of nature is used to have desired effect that humans want from the effect of another law. In other words you can only do what Nature allows.

Will you be able to introspect and set aside your ego in understanding this?

We can build houses using laws of nature to protect better from another of nature's act - earthquakes or flood. Same with cancer or any other events.

But perversion is defined by human ego. If a person is harmful to another being , (example - pedophiles, bestiality) that has to be stopped by the society.

If two gay people do something that is within their nature without hurting anyone else, then for some other ego to criminalize can be called a perverted ego. The society has to protect itself against such egos because they are dangerous to peace loving people.

I am personally turned off by the gay acts of two men. But that does not make them any less human. I know many people who are gay and they are no different than anyone else I know. It is a mystery to me why these men find other men attractive.

If you do not love all beings the way they are (provided they do not cause harm to others) then there can be no real spiritual progress. Religions singing name of some God pervert their God by their hatred ego towards others.

Think about these points

just because a pair of gays/lesbians indulging in same-gender sex do not disturb/hurt others, that does not insulate them from condemnation. the act, though not the individuals, deserves to be condemned.

the creator created man and woman with appropriate reproductive organs such that copulation is between a man and a woman. that is nature.

man and man cannot copulate. likewise women. nature does not permit it.

condemning an unjust/immoral/unholy/perverted act must not be construed as hatred for individuals who indulge in the act.

where does ego come here?

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

'....Hinduism teaches acceptance at all levels, I think.'

hinduism does NOT teach acceptance at all levels. that is what I think.

hinduism, like other religions, is not confined to scriptures. it is also about accepted, though un-scripted, norms/codes-of-conduct of the hindu society in particular and indian society in general, which are above any law of the land.

 

[prasad1]

[video=youtube_share;MkrwDvgNRjY]https://youtu.be/MkrwDvgNRjY[/video]

I am not a follower of Sadguru but like his reasons, and discourses.

He is making the same point A-TBji, and others made in this thread.
Thanks for posting it.

 

[prasad1]

I appreciate this healthy argument.


you mean to say, what is blasphemy and what is not blasphemy is a subjective perception. is my interpretation of your post correct sir?

Everything in this world is subjective and temporary (a-sat).

I do not know everything about Hinduism, anybody who Claims such is not being Honest.
The Sabarimala case was clear discrimination against women, and I am against discrimination.

The Temple can say that Muslims are not allowed, and the Indian constitution allows that, I will accept that (personally I do not like that either). We have to restrict some for security reasons I accept that.

Coming to the sexual orientation of people, Like Sadguru Jaggi says it is none of the business of others, except the consenting adults.

I against any crime as described in the constitution. India is a democracy if you do not like a law change it.
But do not bring religion in that argument.

 

[a-TB]

Dear Mr a-TB,

Quoting your statement, 'we all enjoy anonymity.....like you do'. do just that.

please refrain from uncivilized queries/probes absolutely irrelevant to this thread in particular and to this forum in general. frankly you have no business to probe into my identity. hence don't make desperate attempts to know my identity any further. my identity is none of your business.

this forum is not to parade your paranoids.

I hold you in some esteem. maintain that. I nevertheless appreciate your posts and arguments.

I am not a robot lest you have any misgivings/apprehensions. if you do not find this sufficient for a good discussion, perhaps you are incompetent or perhaps you have some sinister/hidden agenda, which I cannot help.

we are here to share our opinions, free to agree/disagree with each other, argue/counter-argue with each other. do just that. we are not personally combating here trying to prove our point and win trophies. even you and I have understood and agreed with each other and you have even advocated for me on some topics in some earlier threads.

there are some who are in agreement with me in this thread but disagree in other threads and vice versa.

read and understand posts dispassionately, unyielding to emotions.

God has absolutely nothing to do with any religion. man made religions. you can never know God personally through any religion or philosophy or any school of thought/yoga/meditation. but that is an entirely different topic of discussion perhaps for another thread.

My views about God and religion does not disqualify me from starting this thread however.

it is you who has been pronouncing that criminalizing lgbtq is pro-christian and you are yet to substantiate with evidence from christian scriptures. however I never jumped to any conclusion about your religious identity nor am I interested to know it. I can have a good discussion with you though.

You brought Hinduism into the discussion with the decision of India's court.

It is legitimate to know what religious indoctrination you have had. You may have grown out of it which could be relevant too and these questions have nothing to do with any personally identifiable information. People who passionately argue have been open about stating what they stand for and how they are raised. We have had self claimed atheists but they have had no qualms about sharing their background (which has nothing to do with ID).

No one said about disqualification but your background (which is not really an ID) throws light on your comments about Hinduism



The paranoid response proves there is an agenda. We will leave it at that.

 

[a-TB]

hinduism does NOT teach acceptance at all levels. that is what I think.

hinduism, like other religions, is not confined to scriptures. it is also about accepted, though un-scripted, norms/codes-of-conduct of the hindu society in particular and indian society in general, which are above any law of the land.

For you to be emphatic that Hinduism does NOT teach acceptance you must have a basis. I was raised in a Hindu family (a TB like many of the TB forum members). I have not seen intolerance being taught but you seem to hold a view that a Christian would hold. Interesting ...

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I do not think you are attempting to reason your case. You are only making some sweeping statements about me and indulging in mudslinging. If you can present your argument logically kindly do. Otherwise I find no point wasting my time on this topic with you .

And I wonder who is harboring hate among we two.

 

[a-TB]

just because a pair of gays/lesbians indulging in same-gender sex do not disturb/hurt others, that does not insulate them from condemnation. the act, though not the individuals, deserves to be condemned.

the creator created man and woman with appropriate reproductive organs such that copulation is between a man and a woman. that is nature.

man and man cannot copulate. likewise women. nature does not permit it.

condemning an unjust/immoral/unholy/perverted act must not be construed as hatred for individuals who indulge in the act.

where does ego come here?

Why should you condemn anyone who is not hurting you? Such thinking itself is worthy of concern because intolerance of other human beings is hurtful to a society. Condemnation repeatedly against a group for the way they are born is a form of hate. Hate crimes start with condemnation.

The creator may or may not exist.

If he/she did, Did he/she create sex organs for self pleasure watching porn?? Is that worthy of condemnation??

Hypocrisy is the worst thing there is in daily life

 

[a-TB]

Dear Shri a-TB,

I do not think you are attempting to reason your case. You are only making some sweeping statements about me and indulging in mudslinging. If you can present your argument logically kindly do. Otherwise I find no point wasting my time on this topic with you .

And I wonder who is harboring hate among we two.

Well you are the only who is calling a group of people the way they are born as perverted, and abnormal. That is a hate message that cannot be reasoned with. I have pointed logical holes in most sentences you have written in this thread.

My only point of engaging with you is if you could see the kind message you are putting out here proclaiming spirituality. I see that it is not possible to reason with you. So continue with your belief. I will accept you the way you are and I have nothing personally against you. I will speak against hate messages if they arise.

 

[sravna]

Well you are the only who is calling a group of people the way they are born as perverted, and abnormal. That is a hate message that cannot be reasoned with. I have pointed logical holes in most sentences you have written in this thread.

My only point of engaging with you is if you could see the kind message you are putting out here proclaiming spirituality. I see that it is not possible to reason with you. So continue with your belief. I will accept you the way you are and I have nothing personally against you. I will speak against hate messages if they arise.

It is not a hate message. I condemn anything that is done without control either drinking in excess, raping a woman or indulging in homosexuality. Homosexuality is something where the necessity to restrain seeking pleasure in an abnormal way is absent. It is this lack of control that is being condemned. Even a person who rapes a woman is naturally inclined to lose control when seeing a woman. So do we let him go unpunished just because it is in his nature to lose that self control?

We can say all those who are prone to rape women as rapists and see them as a group. Does that mean we cant condemn them?

 

[a-TB]

It is not a hate message. I condemn anything that is done without control either drinking in excess, raping a woman or indulging in homosexuality. Homosexuality is something where the necessity to restrain seeking pleasure in an abnormal way is absent. It is this lack of control that is being condemned. Even a person who rapes a woman is naturally inclined to lose control when seeing a woman. So do we let him go unpunished just because it is in his nature to lose that self control?

We can say all those who are prone to rape women as rapists and see them as a group. Does that mean we cant condemn them?

I am slightly frustrated that even after several repetitions, you have not read and processed what I wrote. You can disagree with my points but to do that you have to read and understand them first

Homosexuality and rape/bestiality/pedophilia are not the same. One causes harm to an unwilling participant and society needs to protect against such actions. Similarly society has to protect against hate speech and hateful actions.

But homosexuality practiced by gays are done in their own privacy is no business of you or me. Why should we criminalize or pass judgement as deviant or abnormal etc. Such passing judgements are dangerous to societies. Human ego that tries to call other peace loving people as deviant is dangerous. Do you understand this point, and then and only then do you agree with this point.

So we condemn rapists, pedophiles , murderers etc. even if it is their nature because they cause harm.

But when one equates that with LGBTQ actions that is a perversion of the mind that is dangerous to peace and has to be checked
I

 

[renuka]

Guys Guys..there is nothing to be turned off by two men in love...believe me the feelings of love and hurt are the same.

 

[sravna]

I am slightly frustrated that even after several repetitions, you have not read and processed what I wrote. You can disagree with my points but to do that you have to read and understand them first

Homosexuality and rape/bestiality/pedophilia are not the same. One causes harm to an unwilling participant and society needs to protect against such actions. Similarly society has to protect against hate speech and hateful actions.

But homosexuality practiced by gays are done in their own privacy is no business of you or me. Why should we criminalize or pass judgement as deviant or abnormal etc. Such passing judgements are dangerous to societies. Human ego that tries to call other peace loving people as deviant is dangerous. Do you understand this point, and then and only then do you agree with this point.

So we condemn rapists, pedophiles , murderers etc. even if it is their nature because they cause harm.

But when one equates that with LGBTQ actions that is a perversion of the mind that is dangerous to peace and has to be checked
I

Ok now I believe you agree that even if it is in one's nature and we are attacking a group we can condemn their acts if they are harmful.

I am not condemning the act of homosexuality per se. But look at the corruptedness of the mind. The object is seeking purely pleasure. This is rooted in selfishness. But I am not sure if you will care to understand the connection. I condemn selfishness too. If there is a foolproof way to identify it , I will do so and try to correct such individuals because of the potential harm they will cause others.

But having said the above, I think we are on different wavelengths and I wont try to make you see my point of view but do understand as long as potential harm to others is implied, correction will be done by the society.

 

[a-TB]

Ok now I believe you agree that even if it is in one's nature and we are attacking a group we can condemn their acts if they are harmful.

I am not condemning the act of homosexuality per se. But look at the corruptedness of the mind. The object is seeking purely pleasure. This is rooted in selfishness. But I am not sure if you will care to understand the connection. I condemn selfishness too. If there is a foolproof way to identify it , I will do so and try to correct such individuals because of the potential harm they will cause others.

But having said the above, I think we are on different wavelengths and I wont try to make you see my point of view but do understand as long as potential harm to others is implied, correction will be done by the society.

You dont have to make me see anything because I clearly see your view and I do not agree and know that it is bad for any society.

What is moral and corrupt arises out of one's prejudices. A harm has to be tangible. LGBTQ actions that causes no harm to anyone but disturbs those who are seriously prejudiced need to be exposed.

How do you know homosexuals do their sexual acts only for physical pleasure. You have gotten your prejudice come in the way of reason with facts. I know women who are in love, where their feelings are no different than feelings of man and woman. I know males who are in committed relationships and not just for sex. Some have asexual gay relationships for life,

So your assumptions and knowledge about LGBTQ is rooted in lack of knowledge and and hence you want to criminalize them which is lack of empathy also. That kind of thinking is harmful to society and that is the only reason I had to point the impact of message such as yours. It is my way of fighting hate messages,

Let peace be with you

 

[sravna]

Why cant men or women be just friends? . It is adamance to pretend it is not for pleasure. Opposing view is not prejudice. It is more likely to be unbiased because ego comes in the way of views of self. Think about it and see who is prejudiced.

 

[a-TB]

Why cant men or women be just friends? . It is adamance to pretend it is not for pleasure. Opposing view is not prejudice. It is more likely to be unbiased because ego comes in the way of views of self. Think about it and see who is prejudiced.

There are millions of friends - men and men, men and women, women and women, transgender with men or women .. all without any sexual interests.

But in nature men and men find not just sex but find their soul mates.
There are women that feel they are really men and it starts at a very young age.

Why nature is the way it is, we cannot know.

Do you know any gay people? CNN has two well knows anchors - Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper
They are as normal as anyone and have a very good heart (without hate)

I think the issue is your lack of education and unwillingness to open your heart. It is not an opposing view when you are battling what is happening in nature.

The people who choose to fall in love with person of same sex or wants to become a transgender is not doing out of a choice. They can suffer in closet in the midst of hate mongering people but in the midst of open minded people they feel free.

So if you want to stay uninformed and aere unwilling to open your heart , it is your choice.

Be well

 

[sravna]

There are millions of friends - men and men, men and women, women and women, transgender with men or women .. all without any sexual interests.

But in nature men and men find not just sex but find their soul mates.
There are women that feel they are really men and it starts at a very young age.

Why nature is the way it is, we cannot know.

Do you know any gay people? CNN has two well knows anchors - Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper
They are as normal as anyone and have a very good heart (without hate)

I think the issue is your lack of education and unwillingness to open your heart. It is not an opposing view when you are battling what is happening in nature.

The people who choose to fall in love with person of same sex or wants to become a transgender is not doing out of a choice. They can suffer in closet in the midst of hate mongering people but in the midst of open minded people they feel free.

So if you want to stay uninformed and aere unwilling to open your heart , it is your choice.

Be well

So now you believe in souls also. Just kidding. I do not want to argue on this further. I think I have expressed my views clearly.