I do not think there is any reasonable way to clarify your doubt. The universal definition of a "true brahmin" is lacking. If the previous threads in this forum are any indication, it showed that it is almost impossible to arrive at a consensus. When consensus eludes for arriving at the definition of a "simple brahmin", guess what the odds are while trying to define a "true brahmin"!!
The same problem will be repeated while trying to define "rich"
Aren't all slokas Vedic only? Are there non Vedic slokas? Like what, Agamic?
Aren't all slokas Vedic only? Are there non Vedic slokas? Like what, Agamic?
hiMembers,
I will just post my experience being brought up in a TB family and draw conclusions from it. I've many times been thankful to be born in such a family.
I've lived all my life in Chennai and spent my childhood in a joint family with nearly a dozen cousins. Our family consisted of my "thatha" and "patti" and my periappa and chittappa(s). We lived in a big independent house that had a mango tree, an old well, open terrace and lots of space for us to play around, and boy did we create a racket during holidays! I would term my family as orthodox, but one with an open mind set. My thatha used to advice the family on many matters which were earnestly followed by my father and his brothers. But my patti, being an house wife was the one who ran the day to day affairs of the family; infact, my thatha never made major financial contributions to the family. My patti was like the center of gravity for the whole family until she passed away a couple of years ago. We follow all religious traditions and to this day plans are made by the family elder for major functions like avani avittam, thatha/patti devasam, my father's devasam etc. We cousins (some of whom are married with kids) are pretty close with each other and share quite a strong bond. Before someone jumps the gun, joint family has its own challenges and even our family at a later time started to become a nuclear family, although we live very close by and meet almost everyday.
Now, what do I infer from this experience?
1. Upbringing and family values are the most important factors that determine (a lot of this happens automatically in a typical brahmin family) how the child evolves and interacts with the society at later parts of life.
2. Elders are like pillars to a family and without them, families are like ship without a rudder.
3. Belief in God as a higher power ensures that egos are not inflated and keeps one grounded most of the time. During difficult times, it is a source of tremendous strength. I have myself seen major crisis in my short life, but only belief in God is helping me riding the bad times.
4. A lot of these family traditions brings with it a sense of occasion, happiness and togetherness.
As I said, we were quite an orthodox set-up, but we never had any problems with people from other caste or religion. Infact, my patti used to interact quite nicely with all sorts of people. This is something that I'm proud of. My elders may not allow inter-caste/religious marriages, but they don't hate anybody. I know of many Brahmin families who have a similar structure and pattern. To me all these together and more, make up a Brahmin family.
I do not think it is possible anymore to have a proper Brahmin upbringing for various reasons.
1. Family values are no longer the priority; there are no family dynamics that are involved in urban upbringing. One utmost cares for ones parent/siblings. Even these bonds are weakening with time.
2. No elders in a family; decisions are purely taken on economic considerations.
3. Religion and God are no longer the center of ones life. Almost all pursuits are either economical or sensory.
I always compare the US (and other western countries) with India on this count. Their civic life is very orderly; there are rules and laws that strictly govern it. Step on a US road, you will realise it. But their family life is chaos; I have American friends who struggle in their life because of lack of family values. In India, the situation is reverse; our civic life is a chaos but our family life is much better. With time, it will be soon be that our family life is also a chaos. The ball has already been set rolling.
This is purely my personal experience.
Vijay
In Maha Bharatha in Yudhishtira-Yaksha (Dharma Raja) Samvaadham,:-
Yaksha :-" O!King!! --by birth--or by reciting scriptures regularly(Svaadhyaayena)--or by listening a lot of lectures (srunuthena) --by which means a person becomes a Brahmin ? --Tell me precisely. "
Yudhishtira:- O! Yaksha !!-Listen carefully---Neither by birth--nor by nor by extensive recitation of Scriptures-nor by listening to learned Scholars--nor by observance of celebacy nor penence-a person becomes aBrahmin--Only by HISTORY (Charithram)-conduct-character--a person becomes a Brahmin.
Bhagavat Geetha Chapter 18,Verse 42:-
"Only self control-tranquility-uprightness-patience-purity of body and mind-- makes a person a Brahmin.
But ofcourse, millions of Brahmins,even under most challenging circumstances, have lived a life to the expectations of sri.Yudhishtira and sri.Vedha Vyaasa and Bhagavat Geetha.--It is why still we are getting rains.
Change is inevitable, so we have to adapt instead of lamenting. You can not turn the clock back.
What would be the right course for the present generation?
In Maha Bharatha in Yudhishtira-Yaksha (Dharma Raja) Samvaadham,:-
Yaksha :-" O!King!! --by birth--or by reciting scriptures regularly(Svaadhyaayena)--or by listening a lot of lectures (srunuthena) --by which means a person becomes a Brahmin ? --Tell me precisely. "
Yudhishtira:- O! Yaksha !!-Listen carefully---Neither by birth--nor by nor by extensive recitation of Scriptures-nor by listening to learned Scholars--nor by observance of celebacy nor penence-a person becomes aBrahmin--Only by HISTORY (Charithram)-conduct-character--a person becomes a Brahmin.
Bhagavat Geetha Chapter 18,Verse 42:-
"Only self control-tranquility-uprightness-patience-purity of body and mind-- makes a person a Brahmin.
But ofcourse, millions of Brahmins,even under most challenging circumstances, have lived a life to the expectations of sri.Yudhishtira and sri.Vedha Vyaasa and Bhagavat Geetha.--It is why still we are getting rains.
I read in one of the books where Kanchi Mahaperiyava was quoted as saying that Brahmins need to be poor. He should not be materialistic. (I started a thread by the name "Can Brahmins be wealthy?").
Here is the link for the thread:
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/5644-can-brahmins-wealthy.html
Prasad, not that all the changes are desirable. However, I think that a child who had a good moral upbringing will more often than not turn out to be a good citizen. Maybe as parents/elders, they should inculcate in the child's mind that material success is not the only objective of life; teach them family values and show them that there are things that are non-tangible but that are more valued than material success. Rest, one can just hope that nature is kind and lets the child turn out to be a good citizen and a human being.
I'm hearing great writers say that India is currently on a transitional period and this transition can be very painful. This is a period when new ideas, aspirations, expectations will fight with old ideas and beliefs that were built over centuries. This will cause great churnings within the society and will reach a crescendo before one wins over the other. As parents/elders, one can only guide the younger generation and provide them with sound emotional intelligence and mental infrastructure to fight this battle. Rest is not in our hands.
Vijay
Sarang:-(quote) "these quotes are used only to taunt brahmins and confuse. It will be nice if more people get 'brahminhood' by initiation in addition.(En-quote)
PLEASE-Not for taunting--Maha Bharatha,Bhagavat Geetha,Athri Samhita these scripturs are only the "foundation" of Sanathana Dharmam (a.k.a.Hinduism)
Braahmanas belong to Hindu Religion Only.As Siva has said Kanchi Paramacharya Swamy has said that Brahmins should lead a life with modest means.
When the Constitution of India was drafted by the "Drafting committee", even after drafting almost 350 and above "Articles" and Sub- headings the members could NOT tie all the lose ends.They said "We leave them to the intelligence and wisdom of future generations of Indians".Similarly the Rishis also have left to the Wisdom and Intelligence of Future generations.
Secondly who can tie the "Parivattam" on whose head saying that "O! You are a Brahmin"---what are the parameters ?--it is why Maharishi Athri Samhita says "Brahma Gjnaanaiva Braahmanaha"--in "iva"=Eva in this context denotes "that alone".Honestly 99.999% of us,who call ourselves Brahmins have NOT even read even One time all the 564 Aphorisms of "Brahma Sutram "
1-1-2-Janmadyasya Yathaha
1-1-3 Saastra Yonivat
1-1-4-Tattu Samanvayat
1-1-5-Ikshather Nasabdham
1-1-9-Svapyayat
1-1-10-Gati Samnyaat
ofcourse ,I have No right to talk about others.I have NOT read even One commentary (Gloss) completely.There are about 14 Commentaries.I used to ask myself, when I have NOT done even "Brahma Vichaaram"( Brahma Gjinjaasam)--how can I say I have "Brahma Gjnaanam" --or "Brahmaanandha Anubhavam"---All 36 years of my Youth ,I was studying only H.A.Kreb's Cycle--"My Livelyhood"+ some extra money="Dhana Aagama Thrishnaam". Am I a Brahmin?.
The only satisfaction is "Out-siders" are Praising us.As Prasad ji says "Gloating".
(quote)"As meme,this spread of Hindu Conceptual tenets (Yoga-Karma-Guru=>Gooru-Punar-Janmam) augurs a more healing and soulful alternative to the mechanisation of our (Western) lives,our bodies and our minds--and promises a relief from the heavy burden of a soulless Capitalism".(en-quote) -Professor Loriliai Biernacki--Professor of Religious Studies,Colarado University--in Washington Post.