Is an analytical mind a boon or bane when it comes to devotion?

[V.Balasubramani]

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Hi Renuka - I have seen many businessmen who come to temples to pray for business success. Even these people, once they make a lot of money, they start giving to the poor through the temple trusts or otherwise. Power of prayers is unparalleled. Cheers,

Sir,

I just wanted to share one of my experiences. It may be a rare one.

When I was employed at Avadi, there is vast parade ground inside our Office compound, with a small temple with a Deity, located facing the main road. During lunch time, after finishing lunch, few of us used to go over to the area of the temple where there are lot of trees for shade and rest for a while. On one particular day, one person giving an appearance of a big shot, came to the temple in his big car. We were at a loss to understand to see a lone devotee coming to this temple at that odd hour i.e around 1.45 PM. He got down from the car went inside temple and stood before the Deity. This temple does not have access to general public as it is located inside a Para Military Force. Minutes later, we found tears running at his cheek. Knowing well that we are watching him, he kept weeping. That was the only occasion when I saw a Devotee weeping before the Almighty lonely. Our surprise was, what could the grievance for such a wealthy man to weep before the God at a temple?


Regards

 

[renuka]

. Our surprise was, what could the grievance for such a wealthy man to weep before the God at a temple?




Regards

Dear sir,

Why were you surprised that he was crying?

There are various reasons why anyone cries.

1)He could have cried becos of pure happiness/devotion.

2)He could have cried becos of unhappiness.

3)He could have cried becos of regret.

4)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected loss.

5)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected gain.

6)He could have cried becos he was suffering from some illness.

7)He could have cried becos someone he loved was suffering some illness.

8)He could have been crying becos of the suffering and war that happens in the world.

9)He could have cried becos his wife was not consenting to divorce and he was dying to marry someone else.

10)He could have been crying cos his wife ran away with his best friend!



So you see sir..there are many reasons a human cries.

 

[sravna]

Dear sir,

Why were you surprised that he was crying?

There are various reasons why anyone cries.

1)He could have cried becos of pure happiness/devotion.

2)He could have cried becos of unhappiness.

3)He could have cried becos of regret.

4)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected loss.

5)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected gain.

6)He could have cried becos he was suffering from some illness.

7)He could have cried becos someone he loved was suffering some illness.

8)He could have been crying becos of the suffering and war that happens in the world.

9)He could have cried becos his wife was not consenting to divorce and he was dying to marry someone else.

10)He could have been crying cos his wife ran away with his best friend!



So you see sir..there are many reasons a human cries.

Dear Renuka,

The common reason connecting all these reasons is that he thought god would help.

 

[tks]

Sir,

I just wanted to share one of my experiences. It may be a rare one.

When I was employed at Avadi, there is vast parade ground inside our Office compound, with a small temple with a Deity, located facing the main road. During lunch time, after finishing lunch, few of us used to go over to the area of the temple where there are lot of trees for shade and rest for a while. On one particular day, one person giving an appearance of a big shot, came to the temple in his big car. We were at a loss to understand to see a lone devotee coming to this temple at that odd hour i.e around 1.45 PM. He got down from the car went inside temple and stood before the Deity. This temple does not have access to general public as it is located inside a Para Military Force. Minutes later, we found tears running at his cheek. Knowing well that we are watching him, he kept weeping. That was the only occasion when I saw a Devotee weeping before the Almighty lonely. Our surprise was, what could the grievance for such a wealthy man to weep before the God at a temple?


Regards

Generally prayer of a person in front of a devotee can be viewed as a private activity. It is no different than someone taking a shower in a bathroom. Unless someone wants to be seen it is better to not observe a person when they seek privacy...

I know the people who watched in this instance probably did not mean any harm and the notion of a private prayer may not have crossed their mind.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

The common reason connecting all these reasons is that he thought god would help.

Dear Sravna,

You reminded me to add this:

May be he cried thinking "why didnt God help me?" as you correctly said he thought god would help.

That is why I teach my son.."pray for the sake of God and not for yourself..I am not saying that God wont help you but mostly God is a silent witness .. love God enough to even take No for an answer"

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear sir,

Why were you surprised that he was crying?

There are various reasons why anyone cries.

1)He could have cried becos of pure happiness/devotion.

2)He could have cried becos of unhappiness.

3)He could have cried becos of regret.

4)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected loss.

5)He could have cried becos of a sudden unexpected gain.

6)He could have cried becos he was suffering from some illness.

7)He could have cried becos someone he loved was suffering some illness.

8)He could have been crying becos of the suffering and war that happens in the world.

9)He could have cried becos his wife was not consenting to divorce and he was dying to marry someone else.

10)He could have been crying cos his wife ran away with his best friend!



So you see sir..there are many reasons a human cries.

Sir,

I agree. There may be lot of reasons for a human to cry. But in my experience, I have never seen person visiting temple at odd hour, crying inside before the Deity. I know that every one is prone to be overtaken by emotion of either joy or sorrow... but weeping at a temple .. especially when some are watching ... may be something .. deep ..uncontrollable ..... ????. That is why I said that it may be a rare one.


Regards

 

[renuka]

But in my experience, I have never seen person visiting temple at odd hour,
Regards

Dear Sir,

Have you been to any temple at 12 midnight

When I was student in India I had been to a Krishna Temple at 12 midnight..it was very peaceful even though the shrine was locked from outside but main gate was not locked.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Mam,

Visiting temple at midnight? Yes Mam. During my boyhood days, our Bhajan Team would visit Lord Murugan Temple at Tiruttani on every 31st December night (Padi Urchavam) and shall sing 'Thirupugagh' songs on each of the hill's 365 steps and shall ascend the hill to reach the temple at top of the hill.

When I was put up at Santhome, used to visit Kapaleeswarar temple at Mylapore for ‘Ardha Jama Pooja’ regularly for some time and that will be between 9.30 -10.00 pm. On Mahasivarathri days, used to be at Agastheeswarar Temple for dharshan till late night.


Regards

 

[ashwin_ash]

Mam,

Visiting temple at midnight? Yes Mam. During my boyhood days, our Bhajan Team would visit Lord Murugan Temple at Tiruttani on every 31st December night (Padi Urchavam) and shall sing 'Thirupugagh' songs on each of the hill's 365 steps and shall ascend the hill to reach the temple at top of the hill.

When I was put up at Santhome, used to visit Kapaleeswarar temple at Mylapore for ‘Ardha Jama Pooja’ regularly for some time and that will be between 9.30 -10.00 pm. On Mahasivarathri days, used to be at Agastheeswarar Temple for dharshan till late night.


Regards

People cry when they are in a deep trance too. Mind altering substances can give people a "god-experience" and makes them do funny things. Religion is a diversion from mans' problems, logic and reasoning are the antithesis of religion.

 

[Nara]

..... Without any belief in God, the ego takes over and all that you mentioned are bound to happen. It is simply a nonsense that these people talk about logic and human values. When ego takes over where is the place for logic and compassion. Of course there are some exceptions that is the cases when the ego is under control.

If God helps you control your ego and lead a righteous life, good for you. But the above statement and the sentiment behind it seems quite egotistical, belying your own claim.

Without any belief in God, the ego takes over and all that you mentioned are bound to happen.

This is just your POV, in my experience, the more God-headed one gets, the more egotistical they become. Take for instance your own claims of creating "spiritual" energy, seems quite arrogant to me from my vantage point. So, sravna, relax, let us not call each other egotistical just because we have different views on God and spirituality.

It is simply a nonsense that these people talk about logic and human values.

Why is this nonsense? IMO, true human values is possible only if one is free of God belief. Otherwise it is just a commercial transaction, like accumulating "bitcoins" for the future life. The compassion of those who reject the notion of life after death is true compassion.

When ego takes over where is the place for logic and compassion.

This is true for everyone, belief in god is not a factor.

Of course there are some exceptions that is the cases when the ego is under control.

Thank you for small mercies !!!! The same can be said in reverse, like "yes there are some exceptions among the believers who are good people".

sravna, extol belief in god all you like, but can't it be done without putting down people who are free of faith in god? What emotional and psychological anxieties drive you guys to denigration people who reject faith in the supernatural whenever you try to justify your own faith?

 

[ashwin_ash]

The compassion of those who reject life after death is true compassion.

Dear Nara,

What do you mean by "rejecting life after death"? Was there ever life after death? Why do you have to "accept" life after death to reject it?

The late great Abraham Kovoor is now a skeleton in his college in Sri Lanka (he donated himself to science). And he has remained a skeleton ever since. As far as I know, there were no signs of any life whatsoever after he died. He easily disproved godmen, miracle for miracle.

 

[Nara]

...What do you mean by "rejecting life after death"? Was there ever life after death? Why do you have to "accept" life after death to reject it? .

What I meant was the notion of life after death...... IMO, there is no life after death. We come into existence when we are born, as our brain matures consciousness develops as well. As the brain function changes or deteriorates so does our consciousness. When the brain ceases to function the consciousness, a product of brain, vanishes as well, and we are dead.

IMO, humans created anthropomorphic gods out of fear and ignorance of natures fury and bounty. In due course we understood better, but not enough to completely reject the old habits of sacrifice to appease gods etc. New explanations were developed. We are still stuck with some of them till today.

Yudhishtra answered the belief people have of their own apparent immortality when asked by Yaksha what is incredulous in the world. To me the answer is, when nature strikes the survivors of ALL faiths praising god for sparing them -- do they really believe that, and that is the most incredulous thing in the world to me.

 

[ashwin_ash]

What I meant was the notion of life after death...... IMO, there is no life after death. We come into existence when we are born, as our brain matures consciousness develops as well. As the brain function changes or deteriorates so does our consciousness. When the brain ceases to function the consciousness, a product of brain, vanishes as well, and we are dead.

IMO, humans created anthropomorphic gods out of fear and ignorance of natures fury and bounty. In due course we understood better, but not enough to completely reject the old habits of sacrifice to appease gods etc. New explanations were developed. We are still stuck with some of them till today.

Yudhishtra answered the belief people have of their own apparent immortality when asked by Yaksha what is incredulous in the world. To me the answer is, when nature strikes the survivors of ALL faiths praising god for sparing them -- do they really believe that, and that is the most incredulous thing in the world to me.

IMO, gods, demons and so on were invented to provide a cathartic and salutory effect to humans, to allay fears of passing on. If humans have 'souls', animals also have souls. After all, the life force is the same across life forms. No God saved the 10s of 1000s dead in Kedarnath. And no god saved the people of the Hyderabad bus fire. Not to mention 9/11 and countless other disasters.

In fact, during the tsunami, not many animals died. Almost all casualties were human. Probably god warned the animals, and not the humans who invented god. I find it highly ironical.

Personally, I feel watching a nice horror movie provides entertainment, and also helps the mind focus on the 'here and now' and not on inventions such as "gods". We don't have to resort to mythology to uncover the truth.

 

[indianassault]

IMO, gods, demons and so on were invented to provide a cathartic and salutory effect to humans, to allay fears of passing on. If humans have 'souls', animals also have souls. After all, the life force is the same across life forms. No God saved the 10s of 1000s dead in Kedarnath. And no god saved the people of the Hyderabad bus fire. Not to mention 9/11 and countless other disasters.

In fact, during the tsunami, not many animals died. Almost all casualties were human. Probably god warned the animals, and not the humans who invented god. I find it highly ironical.

Personally, I feel watching a nice horror movie provides entertainment, and also helps the mind focus on the 'here and now' and not on inventions such as "gods". We don't have to resort to mythology to uncover the truth.

This is the hypocrisy of the human mind. We pollute the environment, we chop forests, we drill in Arctic and spill in GoM, we blast the reactors and we nuke Japan. We do everything and expect GOD to save us? If you believe there is no creator and everything started through big bang theory, you should nt also bring silly arguments as to why GOD never saved human lives. If you say logic and reasoning are the anti thesis of religion, why dont you bring solutions to the world s problems logically?

 

[Nara]

As yet unanswered question about the universe ...

Common person: Huh?

Rational person: wish I know the answer, but the fact is, I don't know .....

Religious person: I have the answer, it is there in my Bible, or my Koran, or my Upanishads or whatever....

 

[krish44]

What I meant was the notion of life after death...... IMO, there is no life after death. We come into existence when we are born, as our brain matures consciousness develops as well. As the brain function changes or deteriorates so does our consciousness. When the brain ceases to function the consciousness, a product of brain, vanishes as well, and we are dead.

IMO, humans created anthropomorphic gods out of fear and ignorance of natures fury and bounty. In due course we understood better, but not enough to completely reject the old habits of sacrifice to appease gods etc. New explanations were developed. We are still stuck with some of them till today.

Yudhishtra answered the belief people have of their own apparent immortality when asked by Yaksha what is incredulous in the world. To me the answer is, when nature strikes the survivors of ALL faiths praising god for sparing them -- do they really believe that, and that is the most incredulous thing in the world to me.

I agree with you with your clinical anaysis of life and death. also fear and ignorance contribute to faith in God. however if we take away faith from people,what will replace it as it will a huge gap for people specially senior citizen who have no family,friends or jobs to hang on

 

[Nara]

.... specially senior citizen who have no family,friends or jobs to hang on

I am a senior citizen, I live with my wife, who thinks I am crazy. Yet, I would consider it a tragedy if I needed faith in an invisible pink unicorn to have a meaningful life. In my stage of life I think the only thing that is of primary and supreme importance is love for humanity in general and unconditional love for one's own progeny. In this respect, even if it seems unseemly, I would like to gloat, I am fortunate more than I deserve. I pity the senior citizen who needs an imaginary boss to get through the day even after retiring and having gotten rid of the real life boss we all love to hate!!!

 

[krish44]

I am a senior citizen, I live with my wife, who thinks I am crazy. Yet, I would consider it a tragedy if I needed faith in an invisible pink unicorn to have a meaningful life. In my stage of life I think the only thing that is of primary and supreme importance is love for humanity in general and unconditional love for one's own progeny. In this respect, even if it seems unseemly, I would like to gloat, I am fortunate more than I deserve. I pity the senior citizen who needs an imaginary boss to get through the day even after retiring and having gotten rid of the real life boss we all love to hate!!!

I would call your thinking little different from the general mass of people. IMO senior citizen mostly head for pilgrimage in search of gods as a change from routine life, This would be acceptable to his family. If he says that he would like to go to french reviera,mt alps or enjoy a cruise in a singapore ship and taste exotic cuisine veg or non veg,there may not be much acceptability. It would not be keeping with the image of tambrahm.unconditional love for progeny is fine . but they have their own life to live on their own terms . there is not much sense in hanging on to them and be a nuisance. friendships have a way of withering away and many die. my personal philosophy is live independantly on your own terms and enjoy what life has to offer

 

[renuka]

I would call your thinking little different from the general mass of people. IMO senior citizen mostly head for pilgrimage in search of gods as a change from routine life which would be acceptable to his family. If he says that he would like to go to french reviera,mt alps or enjoy a cruise in a singapore ship and taste exotic cuisine veg or non veg,there may not be much acceptability

Dear Krish ji,


I wonder why people keep and delay pilgrimage for old age.

During old age the body can not withstand that much travel etc and what can a feeble body and feeble mind benefit at that age especially when we might have to be at the mercy of others to accompany us for travel.


Pilgrimage is like sex..better do it when we are younger.. the bodily response is better!LOL

 

[Nara]

there may not be much acceptability

It all depends on whether you want life or acceptability. Outside of those who are beholden to others for financial needs, why must acceptability be any consideration at all. I say to my fellow senior citizens who are not financially dependent, our time is now, don't worry about acceptability, enjoy life as much as you like, this time will never come again LOL.....

 

[sravna]

If God helps you control your ego and lead a righteous life, good for you. But the above statement and the sentiment behind it seems quite egotistical, belying your own claim.

This is just your POV, in my experience, the more God-headed one gets, the more egotistical they become. Take for instance your own claims of creating "spiritual" energy, seems quite arrogant to me from my vantage point. So, sravna, relax, let us not call each other egotistical just because we have different views on God and spirituality.

Why is this nonsense? IMO, true human values is possible only if one is free of God belief. Otherwise it is just a commercial transaction, like accumulating "bitcoins" for the future life. The compassion of those who reject the notion of life after death is true compassion.

This is true for everyone, belief in god is not a factor.


Thank you for small mercies !!!! The same can be said in reverse, like "yes there are some exceptions among the believers who are good people".

sravna, extol belief in god all you like, but can't it be done without putting down people who are free of faith in god? What emotional and psychological anxieties drive you guys to denigration people who reject faith in the supernatural whenever you try to justify your own faith?

Dear Shri Nara,

You talk about the believers putting down the non believers. But what about you? You call the scriptures useless, illogical etc and denigrate it in every way possible. How can you say all that as if you are saying the truth?

 

[Vaagmi]

Hi krish,

IMO senior citizen mostly head for pilgrimage in search of gods as a change from routine life, This would be acceptable to his family. If he says that he would like to go to french reviera,mt alps or enjoy a cruise in a singapore ship and taste exotic cuisine veg or non veg,there may not be much acceptability. It would not be keeping with the image of tambrahm.unconditional love for progeny is fine . but they have their own life to live on their own terms . there is not much sense in hanging on to them and be a nuisance. friendships have a withering away and many die. my [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]personal philosophy[/COLOR] is live independantly on your own terms and enjoy what life has to offer

It is your money and you decide how you will spend it. You dont have to bother about what the family would think or the TB community would think. Go to Mount Alps and do skating but take care not to fall and end up with a crack some where. Go to Pattaya and enjoy to your heart's content until you are satiated. When you get back from all that do think about what was the net gain.

Love is never conditional. Why add "unconditional" to that? That "unconditional", when added, reveals something else. It reveals a certain shirking of responsibility, a certain misplaced over-indulgence, a certain resentment to discipline from the distant past coming from deep down to surface and finally a certain amount of bad luck on the part of the progeny concerned. Poor thing. Deserves a better quality love and more of it.

My two rupees.

 

[Nara]

You talk about the believers putting down the non believers. But what about you? You call the scriptures useless, illogical etc and denigrate it in every way possible. How can you say all that as if you are saying the truth?

The difference, my dear sravna, is, I am talking about the so called scriptures and you are talking about us, we the people who dare to disagree with you.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Nara,

You talk about the believers putting down the non believers. But what about you? You call the scriptures useless, illogical etc and denigrate it in every way possible. How can you say all that as if you are saying the truth?

Dear Sravna,

Let me ask a question here before a Clash of the Titans start!LOL

Ok my question is "How long can we hold on to scriptures? don't we have to let go after a while?"

I am not saying that scriptures are wrong/bad etc..its just that after a while one does not want to hold on to any belief anymore and be free from everything..that freedom is totally a different feel altogether.....you start to wonder "hey why did I take so long to feel this freedom" This freedom is not denial of God or anything..in fact it makes you feel that is nothing is actually outside of you.

Do you ever get this feeling?

 

[krish44]

It all depends on whether you want life or acceptability. Outside of those who are beholden to others for financial needs, why must acceptability be any consideration at all. I say to my fellow senior citizens who are not financially dependent, our time is now, don't worry about acceptability, enjoy life as much as you like, this time will never come again LOL.....

Wah WAH Naraji are other senior citizens listening . It is our time now . we will enjoy to the hilt. we have narajis approval