Inter caste marriages

[pannvalan]

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Although this topic was discussed at length and in detail by various members in some earlier threads, I just wanted to post this in continuation of the thread initiated by 'Bagya'.

As I had written in my last post under that thread, here is the new development which took me by surprise and caused indignation and anguish.

A girl very well known to me for more than 2 decades and also related to me in a way, recently dropped the bombshell that she wanted to marry a Telugu Chettiar boy. Details I will post later.

This made me post this.

INTER CASTE MARRIAGES​

• In the case of a love affair, both the male and the female exhibit only the positive characteristics of theirs to each other, so long as they are not married.

2. Since ‘love is blind’, each cannot notice or attempt to learn
about the unexposed side of the other person.

• If physical looks are really attractive too, it will result in clouded vision. The outward looks will mostly shadow the negative side of a person and it will impair the rational decision-making and judgemental capacity of both.

• In the case of one getting attracted to the other only by the external beauty, it is nothing but mere infatuation. After marriage or after physical contact, this liking and attraction will slowly but surely diminish and one day will disappear too.

• It shall be remembered that in any marital relationship, the boy and the girl do not just get married to each other. Whether they like it or not, whether they are of aware of it or not, they are also wedded to their other relatives. Therefore, the likely problems that may arise on account of such relatives are usually not thought of or cannot be imagined beforehand.

• In case of arranged marriages, the elders from both the families will have some commitment and moral liability to see that the marital bond remains strong, stable and healthy.

• But in case of love marriages, that too inter-caste marriages, this aspect will be conspicuous by its absence. If any problems crop up after marriage, there will be no one around to look for help.

• Even the friends who initially support the love marriage/s, will disown their role later. In case of serious problems – legal, criminal and financial – no friend can really help even if he/she wants too, till such problems are fully resolved.

• It may be remembered that most of the youth are under the illusion that love will and must happen in everybody’s life. So, whether it happens in one’s own life or not, if one of their peers/friends falls in love, they go out of the way to get him/her married to the person of his/her choice, without thinking of any consequences. For them, it is just a thrill, merry making and sacred duty to the youth community.

• Especially in case of police cases like physical torture, suicides/murders etc., no one can be seen remaining in the company of the persons affected. In case of psychological duress also, mere words of comfort are of no use at all.

• In case of inter-caste marriages, the incompatibility will be more pronounced

in the following areas.

(a) Language and communication
(b) Customs, beliefs and values.
(c) Intra-familial relationships, rights and obligations
(d) Religious practices
(e) Festivals
(f) Food habits
(g) Dressing codes
(h) Other tastes and preferences in general

12. The dominant partner will try to impose – overtly or covertly – his/her views on the other and one of the two has to thus surrender their freedom permanently. It will then become a self-invited slavery, from which there is no escape. (In arranged marriages also, this may happen but the family elders will function effectively to prevent this unpleasant development).

• The unreasonable demands from either side after the marriage will make the other partner to rethink about continuing the marital bond itself. More so in case of Indian males, if not dowry, the demands from them will come in so many other forms.

Initially such demands will be easy to satisfy and once they are satisfied, the husbands will slowly muster courage to put forth more and more demands. A stage will come when their demands cannot be fulfilled by their wives or their relatives. At this point of time, they will start harassing their wives physically and mentally.

• In case of arranged marriages, this aspect is discussed threadbare and a consensus is arrived to everyone’s satisfaction, before the conduct of the marriage. But, in case of love marriages, no one wishes to or dares to think of this common development, before the marriage. Worse still, they never agree any such development will take place, in their case (They think and argue that theirs is the best love affair that this Earth has ever seen).

• In India, marriage is usually an irreversible event and the relationship that emerges out of marriage is an irrevocable contract. Therefore, whether it is separation or legal divorce by mutual consent, it is only the girl’s life that is going to be ultimately spoiled forever.

• Boys/Men escape with mere bruises, whereas the girls/women have to put up with the wounds that do not heal at all, until their death. Added to the mental agony is the humiliation and ill treatment they suffer at the hands of others in their close circle and also the society at large. This makes their life more miserable, insecure and unworthy of living any further.

Although remarriage is an option, by and large it is exercised only by the males, without any sense of shame and guilt. Poor females curse their fate and spend the rest of their life like a dead person without any interest in anything – food, dress, neatness, hygiene and health. They also stop going outside unnecessarily, except for employment.

Some feeble-minded girls commit suicide too.

• Statistics show that in case of arranged marriages, the rate of failure is 20% and in case of love marriages, the rate of success is only 20%. There lies the major difference.

 

[C RAVI]

Sri Pannvalan ji,

Very well defined statements....

Unfortunately inter-cast love marriages seems to be the order of the day now-a-days.

Majority of the girls are attracted towards physical attractions and financial status of boys and majority of boys are just particular about how effectively they can win over their partner.

1) Since married couples are not into Joint Family system, they are not worried about traditional clashes. They are not concerned about performing traditional practices.

2) Many Brahmin boys and girls are not worried about getting into non-veg. eating habits. Many of them consider that eating habits have nothing to do with Brahmin Tradition. It's just a matter of practice and not at all to be considered as a sin. Thinking that way they get into the habit of tasting non-veg and don't mind to be non-vegetarian through out the life. Obviously would not mind putting their wards into non-vegetarian habits.

Consequently as a matter of fact and as how you have stated, girls are always on the receiving end when the marriage turns into failure.

Is such individual's decision on Inter-Cast marriage is an individual's fate OR the fate of the Brahmin society? Or might be both.

 

[Raghy]

I was attracted to the girl just down the road (4 houses away). She was not even 17 years. I fell in love with her. She did not know what she fell into! Our horoscopes did not match too well either. Both the parents opposed.

It all happened about 29 years ago. We are just like any other couple. We fight 3 weeks in a month (right now we are in the middle of one); We don't agree with each other in alomst anything; Our food choices are different (she likes only health food, no fat; I like to put a huge block of butter. She does not eat rice; I can't eat without rice. She hates me spending time on the computer; i love to do that). We are from the same caste, same sub-sect. But it just so happened, not by choice.

 

[pannvalan]

Please read your last sentence again.

It did not happen just like that. The sub-conscious mind makes its own calculations.
You might have not noticed it or not aware of it till this date.

Yey, wordy duels and fights are quite common in any type of married life yaar. In fact, they add spice to one's life.

That's why 'Oodal' and the 'Koodal' that follows are specially talked upon by all poets including a Saint poet like Thiruvalluvar (Read the third division of Thirukkural - Kamathu Paal).

 

[kunjuppu]

pann,

what is the issue here?

take the caste of this guy out. assume he is a TB. would he pass?

 

[Raghy]

Sri Pannvalan,

You are right. I may not have considerations for the caste, but she might have scrutinised it. As you pointed it out, As of today I did not pay attention to it; possibly there was no need to pay attention either.

 

[Raghy]

Raghy.. izzzit... amazing....:gossip:

Sri Sharmaji,

I am from a village. So, there was nothing to it, really. As Sri. Pannvalan pointed out, we are from the same caste and same sub-sect too (but not related). But our marriage was never approved by our parents (the marriage was conducted with all the sampradayams anyway).

 

[RVR]

Finally everything ends in twenty twenty.

In the case of arranged marriages, so many people -not necessarily parents alone-have stake. So they pacify both sides in case of a dispute. In the case of love marriages, every thing is left between the two.

Even within the community love marriages, it is happening. Two of my relatives got married against the wishes of boy's parents. After marriage, the girl was practically isolated within the family. Her own husband is not willing to come to her rescue at the need of the hour.

Let us hope better sense prevails on the concerned people.

All the best

 

[Nara]

With profound apologies to Shakespeare, and to you all,

Arranged marriage or love marriage, that is the question.

For long our Indian women have suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous in-laws, never taking up arms against a sea of troubles. Only in death, the long sleep, they end the heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks that come from many an arranged marriage.

The stars and zodiacs dovetailed, 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd, but there's the rub; it means not a thing, all calamity is your fault; the pangs of unrequited love;

you would bear the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor's wrong, the proud hubby's contumely, the in-law's uncare;

burn your feelings you just didn't marry him, but his relatives too;

then pray for a boy, for if 'tis a girl 'tis your fault

bear those ills we have, we have no conscience, yet does make cowards of us all;

now comes a long sleep of death, what nightmares may come of so long life;

and we wonder, why girls run, from an arranged marriage

 

[Nara]

.... In the case of love marriages, every thing is left between the two.

Why should this be so? Why should a girl be ostracized just because she followed her heart? In fact it is more important for parents to be involved with the girls' lives when it is not an arranged marriage -- that is when she needs all the protection.

I wonder where Sri Pan got his 20% 20% statistics. Please provide the complete citation, I would like to look into it more closely.

Often staying married is considered a successful marriage. That defines success purely from the man's POV. I searched the web for some study that really looked into how happy the Indian couples are in marriage, both man and woman. I could not find anything meaningful. If any of our members have a good study they can cite I would appreciate it.

Times are changing, and changing fast. Let us not just hope the youngsters will choose arranged marriage as if that guarantees happiness. As elders it is our duty to provide a new paradigm for the young-ones to get hitched and lead a happy life.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Love is like an onion
You taste with delight
Once its gone you wonder
What ever made you bite.


all forms of love fade over time.

most love are subjective and conditional.

we fail to realize that the person we all love the most is invariably ourselves.

we love someone today because he/she makes us happy.

best of friends have anuraag today and become beast of friends tommorrow when differences set in.

spouses love each other today but cant stand the sight of each other when they divorce.

Mothers love is the closest to divine love that too at times conditional.

I couldnt help notice a television programme about the devastating 2006 Tsunami in India.
i saw a woman crying that he son had died.

she was wailing saying who is going to look after her now and get her two daughters married?what will be her fate now with two daughters ?

I could not imagine a mother saying this.

i can understand her plight but didnt she think of how her son faced an untimely death, a painful and terrifing one too.

the final moments he struggled, the pain he underwent,the fear in his mind, the last thoughts he had.

but all she could think of was herself.

didnt she love herself the most?

Its only God who loves us unconditionally.

 

[happyhindu]

in some arranged marriages, adjustments comes out of perhaps a sense of duty and the desire to have peace at home.

in some love marriages, their adjustments can tend to come out of that tinge of love. sometimes, i notice that no matter even if a couple argues, they somehow have memories of their courtship days to bring romance back into their lives....

arranged marriage or love marriage - a marriage is a marriage - after the initial days of walking on clouds are over, its down to reality for all - the reality of handling relatives, their expectations, etc, is i think common to all in the typical indian (traditional) household..

 

[C RAVI]

Love is like an onion
You taste with delight
Once its gone you wonder
What ever made you bite.


all forms of love fade over time.

most love are subjective and conditional.

we fail to realize that the person we all love the most is invariably ourselves.

we love someone today because he/she makes us happy.

best of friends have anuraag today and become beast of friends tommorrow when differences set in.

spouses love each other today but cant stand the sight of each other when they divorce.

Mothers love is the closest to divine love that too at times conditional.

I couldnt help notice a television programme about the devastating 2006 Tsunami in India.
i saw a woman crying that he son had died.

she was wailing saying who is going to look after her now and get her two daughters married?what will be her fate now with two daughters ?

I could not imagine a mother saying this.

i can understand her plight but didnt she think of how her son faced an untimely death, a painful and terrifing one too.

the final moments he struggled, the pain he underwent,the fear in his mind, the last thoughts he had.

but all she could think of was herself.

didnt she love herself the most?

Its only God who loves us unconditionally.

Dr. Renuka ji,

I agree that in majority of the cases human loves are conditional some or the other way..

But I can not accept that Mother's love would also be conditional, unless she demands ridiculously from her son or daughter that are beyond their mental and material capabilities

In the above case, a Tsunami hit mother wailing on herself and her daughters plight would be because of Poverty. In this land of human survival (challenged by God), A Mother would definitely have sever pain of losing her son in terms of "Vaazha Vendiya Payyan" and how he would have suffered during the struggle for survival. This pain will ever in her heart till her death. But within fraction of seconds he mind would concentrate on taking care of her unmarried daughters as well because she is a mother to all her sons and daughters.

When a husband dies, a wife’s wailing would be similar as she bears responsibility to protect and nurture her children. Can we say that her love is conditional?

No love is conditional unless one understands oneself and others better. Love is always Love and unfortunately it seems to be conditional because of lack of true attitude and considering others like our self.

The same with the girls and boys getting into Love and have same cast or Inter-cast marriage. The two loving hearts would be in harmony unless their brain gets corrupted. As long as they have true Love they would like to appear to be a fool in front of their spouse to keep the other happy and would adjust, compromise and understand each other in a loving manner. They would feel happy in the happiness of their partner. As long as husband and wife sincerely wants the other to be happy than oneself, than that marriage would never fail and need not required outsiders to help bridging the gap or few others to further spoil.

I am not at all against Love marriage. In fact I love to have love marriage. To have such a chance in life one should be considered as "KUDUTHU VACHCHAVAN". During love we would be understanding almost all the attributes of an individual and could try to overcome our wrong perceptions in any. This way we would be much composed and positively determined to share our life with our love under any circumstances.

TO be frank I would be happy to be in love with a Brahmin girl. At the same time my love would never be fake in any sense if at all I happen to fall into true love with a girl from other cast or other religion (True love can not see the other barriers and need not to). Whatever the case may be my love would ever be true and my brain would never get corrupt and I would never like to be in guise.

From my 20’s and till now, I tried maximum to avoid possible interactions with girls to avoid myself falling in Love (A true love can be found in any girls irrespective of Religion, cast, culture and language) so that I should not end up having inter-cast marriage and upset my parents, especially my Mom.

Because my love to my parents are true. At the same time I can not say that I don’t have a talent or courage to love a girl OR I can not have true love and compassion to my wife.

So, in all, the existence of true love can not be determined in a narrow perspective. It requires a great deal of self realization and realization of others in par with ours.


*Disclaimer – The above are only my POV as a lay man. I am not a recognized and approved scholar / philosopher.

 

[renuka]

Dear RaviJi,

Your Point of view is really valid and dont feel you are not a recognized and approved scholar.
You must have true love for everyone in this Forum.

You dont need the disclaimer dear RaviJi.

Nice reply though you have posted but i still feel almost all types of love are conditional.

Just to add, to love someone one does not have to have any requirements.
Its just a feeling which develops for no apparent reason sometimes and also dissapears with no apparent reason sometimes.
Tell me what type of Love are we going to bring when we die?
Only Divine Love will prevail.
Its better to Love all but at the same time be detached.
Its easier said than done but isnt the answer to this the very reason why we are all born in this world?

 

[C RAVI]

Dr. Renuka ji,

I agree very much with your statement - "though you have posted but i still feel almost all types of love are conditional."

What to do every thing in this world is conditional. Not only the relationship love but every activity/systems/practices/policies/strategies etc...are all conditional. The whole world is conditional.

"No conditions, No human life"

But I feel some how we can try to achieve unconditional love without expecting others to be true. That is my only motive here.

If I love some one truly, I would not mind if the other person is not showing true love to me. But I need to put myself under trial to show my true love and make the other person realize what true Love is. If I could achieve this with my true love than I am sure that the other person will start to show true love to me.

--------------------------------

Every one of us in this forum have different mindset and this is much obvious. There is nothing to blame and nothing to feel.

I certainly have love and respect to every member in this forum. That's why I could stick on to www.tamilbrahmins.com.

Since I have love and respect to every members of this Forum, I decided to have disclaimer commonly. And I feel it is not going to hurt any body as long as I am not abusive in my statements.


*Disclaimer – The above are only my POV as a lay man. I am not a recognized and approved scholar / philosopher.

 

[renuka]

Dear RaviJi,

You know you sound like a very loving person.
True to your signature: Anbe Shivam
You should consider marriage.
Why dont get in touch with Mr.SharmaJi.

just a suggestion,
renuka

 

[C RAVI]

Dear RaviJi,

You know you sound like a very loving person.
True to your signature: Anbe Shivam
You should consider marriage.
Why dont get in touch with Mr.SharmaJi.

just a suggestion,
renuka

"Enniya Vachchu Comedy Kimidy Pannuliye???????" :loco:

Anyways....thank you very much for probably your true love as a fried to this eligible bachelor.

 

[RVR]

Dear RaviJi,

You know you sound like a very loving person.
True to your signature: Anbe Shivam
You should consider marriage.
Why dont get in touch with Mr.SharmaJi.

just a suggestion,
renuka

Ms.Renuka,

Don't worry. Sri Ravi cannot enjoy bachelor life for ever. We will see to it that he ties knot at the earliest.

All the best

 

[Raghy]

Sow, Sri. Renkakarthikayan,
I humbly beg to differ some of your point of views in the subject of ‘love’. Your point of views is in quotation.

“all forms of love fade over time.”

I beg to differ. If the love is a strong enough bond, it carries to the last rites.


“most love are subjective and conditional.”

Love is a subjective emotion. But unconditional love exists in so many instances. For example, love towards our children is unconditional.

”we fail to realize that the person we all love the most is invariably ourselves.”

We love ourselves the least if we lead a normal human life. For any normal human being his/her spouse and children are more important than that person. So many mothers feed the children and the husband first….drinks water to quench her own hunger. I have seen this way too many times.

”we love someone today because he/she makes us happy.”

I don’t think so. Many a times my children had me climbing the wall; but, the love for them never diminished. I can quote other relationships too, bound by love.

”best of friends have anuraag today and become beast of friends tommorrow when differences set in.”

Then they were not best of friends, were they?

”spouses love each other today but cant stand the sight of each other when they divorce.”

I think you have forgotten to mention one more situation in between. Spouses love each other today; one of the spouses betray the other; The affected spouse consider the other as an enemy; They can’t stand the sight of each other when they divorce due to the betrayal.

”Mothers love is the closest to divine love that too at times conditional.”

A mother may favour a weak child to provide extra protection. But all the children would be loved in the same way. In my humble opinion, mothers love is always unconditional.

I couldnt help notice a television programme about the devastating 2006 Tsunami in India.
i saw a woman crying that he son had died.

”she was wailing saying who is going to look after her now and get her two daughters married?what will be her fate now with two daughters ?

I could not imagine a mother saying this.

i can understand her plight but didnt she think of how her son faced an untimely death, a painful and terrifing one too.

the final moments he struggled, the pain he underwent,the fear in his mind, the last thoughts he had.

but all she could think of was herself.”

How long was the mother covered in the programme? How can we know that the mother is not crying even today? Is she covered in the TV 24/7 all these years? How do we know that she did not curse the God for taking her son’s life instead of her own life? How do we know she did not lament the unexpected death of her son? We don’t know the real pain, anguish and grievances suffered by that poor lady.

”didnt she love herself the most?”

No.

”Its only God who loves us unconditionally.”

I don’t think so. In so many religions, we are required to follow the rules allegedly set by God without asking any question. God not only demands our soul, in some religion it is believed that the persons who do not believe in that particular God should be killed. In other words, God even demands murder.

 

[kunjuppu]

pannvalan,

you still have not answered my question

lest you think i am baiting, i will declare that THAT was the last thing in my mind.

based on your answer, if it can be assumed that we hope to drill down to prevent a 'disastrous' marriage, we can evolve one such questionnaire, to pose to the girl.

the questions must be fair, and appeal to the head. at some point, even a love marriage, moves from the heart to the head, and common sense and sheer self preservation, hopefully will prevail.

living in the west, i see more of the indian, than the white kids, enter a marriage with blind 'bollywood' love. the other indian alternative, increasingly rare, is arranged marriages in india.

i think, both end up with about 50% failure, the first time. the second time, the girl or the boy, uses his head in chosing his or her partner. this one lasts, as far as i can generalize.

hence, this very important question pannvalan. waiting for your answer. thanks

what is the issue here?

take the caste of this guy out. assume he is a TB. would he pass? Yesterday 09:54 PM

 

[renuka]

Dear RaghyJi,
You surely know how to debate.Good.

i said I feel all forms love fades over time ,more in the sense that nothing is permenant.
Its just a personal experience I felt this year at my mother in law's funeral.
when i saw her body being consumed by flames, my husband doing the final rites and my teary eyed father in law standing near.
All i could think of is "Here goes a woman, once a wife but not anymore, once a mother but not anymore"
All the love showered is not anymore.
Everything seemed so real but was only transient.
I thought why even get into a wordly relationship at all ?
You were right when you said true love last till last rites.
See it ends there.
What seemed so real was only a transient feeling.
even memories fade over time.
only divine love follows us to funeral ground.
i think there is a nice old tamil song that depicts that.
Wifes relationship is in the house.
Child comes to the funeral ground only.
Who comes with us finally?


Mother love is closest to divine love but at times conditional.
I have seen enough mothers in my job who neglect their children and even abandon them to pursue a new husband.
new husband does not want old husbands children so abandon them in an orphanage.
who did this mother love?
obviously herself.
its a pityful sight to treat abandon children who just crave for love they once had.
see even their maternal love was transient.

Religion is man made at times and also wrongly interprated by some.
GOD does not demand murder.
Its man who murders.
Even animals do not murder.

Na taato na maata na bandhur na daata
Na putro na putri na bhrtyor na bhartaa
Na jaaya na vidyaa na vrttir mameiva
Gatistvam gatistvam tvam eka bhavani

renuka

 

[pannvalan]

Let me wish to clarify certain points.

1. At the outset, I reject the argument all forms of love are conditional. Not
necessarily and cannot be too.

2. In any kind of relationship - mother and her child (even after adulthood). husband
and wife, two friends, brother and sister and so on - some reciprocity is needed
to keep the relationship intact. It need not be in any material form. Some kind
words, compliments and encouragement, sharing some intimate thoughts and
moments, sharing common interests and pursuits, care and concern for each
other etc. are all needed to continue the relationship further. If one calls this
conditional, I am sorry, he/she is mistaken.

3. When a person dies, it is quite natural for anyone to describe how the loss of that
person will be reflected in the life of the mourner in so many ways. So, one such
consequence is the hope and confidence reposed in that person, by the mourner
lay dashed and gone forever.

Now, the mourner is totally directionless and does not know how to express that loss.
Moreover, in a tragic circumstance like death, the really affected persons cannot
think rationally and talk rationally. This shall never be misunderstood as their
selfishness, as Ravi has correctly described.

4. Marriage is not a recruitment for a particular employment or a role. It is choosing
the life partner with whom the person has to live forever. So, modern sceintific
methodologies and tools like giving a questionnaire for selection is totally absurd.
But, to fill up this need, both the probables are allowed to speak in privacy for say
15 or 20 minutes, with the permission of the elders, nowadays.

But, unfortunately, this rare opportunity is wasted by most of the youth - both
boys and girs. They talk all irrelevant matter and sometimes rubbish too. In some
cases, this time is utilised to flatter each other with 'full asadu vazhidhal'.

5. Even telephonic conversation is fine, if talking face to face is not felt comfortable
or does not elicit the anticipated responses.

6. But, with artificial mental make up like physical make up, a clever person
camouflages all his/her weaknesses and ugly side of his/her personality.
However, an equally clever person on the other side can easily make out what is
real and what is pretence.

7. Certain things are discussed by the family elders with good experience and
reasonable prudence and suitable conclusions reached soon. These inputs act as
very essential supplements to the first hand information gained by the boy and
the girl themselves. (Those who know about 'Johari Window' concept will vouch
for what I say).

8. Another important point is this process of knowing one another better shall not
be mistaken for an examination to filter people, so that wider choice can be had.
That's very wrong and it will tear the heart and sometimes maim the soul of the
person rejected with just half an hour interaction made.

9. Last but not the least, life is full of compromises and adjustments. Being
dogmatic will take one nowhere. At the same time, making one's notions and aims
clear at the first instance or at least during the initial process of interaction will
pave the way for better understanding and commitment from either side.

Ellavatrukkum melaaga, Kadavaludaiya paripoorna arulum, periyavargalin nallaasiyum
irundhal thaan, nalla vazhkkai thunai amaiyum.

'Manaivi amaivadhellam, iraivan kodutha varam' - Kannadasan.

It applies to the other partner (husband) too.

What do you say?

 

[Nara]

There is lot to be said about arranged marriages, the benefits may even be longer than the proverbial anumar vaal.

But it just does not matter. More and more of the educated and career minded girls, and boys as well, are going to go for love marriage.

As HH says, "arranged marriage or love marriage - a marriage is a marriage". In this, the job of the parents is to serve as the safety net and pillar of support.

As our children grow up, they pick up basic values such as honesty, compassion etc., and practice them in no less a measure than ourselves. So, in a majority of cases, their choice is not going to be totally irrational, blinded by physical love.

In most cases, exceptions are there of course, people fall in love in college or work. So, there is going to be some level of economic and social compatibility. It is not as though a girl with MCA degree is going to fall in love with a high school drop out, even though it may happen in a rarest of rare case.

What I am getting at is, let us leave the choice to the boys and girls. If they want their marriage arranged, let us provide them that support. If they fall in love, discreetly ensure that the choice is not a disastrous one, and then support them in that choice.

Whatever the case may be, even if they marry against your will, for goodness sake, please do not ostracize them -- that will only create more problems.

As parents, our role is to be facilitators, safety net, and provider of unconditional love -- I think unconditional love can only exist between human beings, Raghy is right, god demands your very soul in exchange.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Let me wish to clarify certain points.

1. At the outset, I reject the argument all forms of love are conditional. Not
necessarily and cannot be too.

2. In any kind of relationship - mother and her child (even after adulthood). husband
and wife, two friends, brother and sister and so on - some reciprocity is needed
to keep the relationship intact. It need not be in any material form. Some kind
words, compliments and encouragement, sharing some intimate thoughts and
moments, sharing common interests and pursuits, care and concern for each
other etc. are all needed to continue the relationship further. If one calls this
conditional, I am sorry, he/she is mistaken.

3. When a person dies, it is quite natural for anyone to describe how the loss of that
person will be reflected in the life of the mourner in so many ways. So, one such
consequence is the hope and confidence reposed in that person, by the mourner
lay dashed and gone forever.

Now, the mourner is totally directionless and does not know how to express that loss.
Moreover, in a tragic circumstance like death, the really affected persons cannot
think rationally and talk rationally. This shall never be misunderstood as their
selfishness, as Ravi has correctly described.

4. Marriage is not a recruitment for a particular employment or a role. It is choosing
the life partner with whom the person has to live forever. So, modern sceintific
methodologies and tools like giving a questionnaire for selection is totally absurd.
But, to fill up this need, both the probables are allowed to speak in privacy for say
15 or 20 minutes, with the permission of the elders, nowadays.

But, unfortunately, this rare opportunity is wasted by most of the youth - both
boys and girs. They talk all irrelevant matter and sometimes rubbish too. In some
cases, this time is utilised to flatter each other with 'full asadu vazhidhal'.

5. Even telephonic conversation is fine, if talking face to face is not felt comfortable
or does not elicit the anticipated responses.

6. But, with artificial mental make up like physical make up, a clever person
camouflages all his/her weaknesses and ugly side of his/her personality.
However, an equally clever person on the other side can easily make out what is
real and what is pretence.

7. Certain things are discussed by the family elders with good experience and
reasonable prudence and suitable conclusions reached soon. These inputs act as
very essential supplements to the first hand information gained by the boy and
the girl themselves. (Those who know about 'Johari Window' concept will vouch
for what I say).

8. Another important point is this process of knowing one another better shall not
be mistaken for an examination to filter people, so that wider choice can be had.
That's very wrong and it will tear the heart and sometimes maim the soul of the
person rejected with just half an hour interaction made.

9. Last but not the least, life is full of compromises and adjustments. Being
dogmatic will take one nowhere. At the same time, making one's notions and aims
clear at the first instance or at least during the initial process of interaction will
pave the way for better understanding and commitment from either side.

Ellavatrukkum melaaga, Kadavaludaiya paripoorna arulum, periyavargalin nallaasiyum
irundhal thaan, nalla vazhkkai thunai amaiyum.

'Manaivi amaivadhellam, iraivan kodutha varam' - Kannadasan.

It applies to the other partner (husband) too.

What do you say?

Perfect and wonderful.....hats off to you Sri Pannvalan ji. :first:

 

[Nara]

Statistics show that in case of arranged marriages, the rate of failure is 20% and in case of love marriages, the rate of success is only 20%.

Dear Shri Pannvalan, I am really interested in looking into this further. I would greatly appreciate it if you could direct me to the report from which you took this statistics.

We often tend to equate success in marriage with staying married. If this is the measure of success then the success rate in India must be much higher than just 20% of love marriages and 80% of arranged marriages. I found a divorce rate of 1.1% for India from two different sources from a Google search: here, and here.

There is definitely a strong correlation between equality of women and the divorce rate. It seems one can even reverse this and draw inferences about a woman's place in society from the divorce rate. If we did that, I think we will probably find that the higher the divorce the better is the status of women as measured by the ability to make decisions for themselves without a whole of meddling from men.

Cheers!