Janaki Jambunathan
Active member
Why only few followers of Ramanujacharyiar have this Chari tag Why not followers of Shankaracharyiar & Madhuachariars? If this is not caste suffix why remove them?
Inside Tirumala Tirupati Temple by National Geographic
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prasad1
Active member
I am not an EXPERT.
I come from an Advaita School of philosophy, I am a smartha by birth and inclination.
[FONT="]Advaita Vedanta is probably the best known of all Vedanta schools of Hinduism the others being Dvaita and Vishishtadvaita.
"Advaita" literally means "not two", and is often called a monistic or non-dualistic system of thought. The word Advaita essentially refers to the identity of the Self (Atman) and the whole (Brahman). The key source texts for all schools of Vedānta are the Upanishads (twelve or thirteen major texts, with many more minor texts), the Bhagavad Gītā, which is part of the Mahabhārata, and the Brahma Sūtras (also known as Vedānta Sūtras), which systematize the doctrines taught in the Upanishads and the Gītā.
Dvaita Philosophy is an outshoot of the Vedanta Philosophy of ancient India. Dvaita (meaning dualism) Philosophy was propounded by Madhwacharya in the 13th century. Dvaita Philosophy proclaims that God and souls are different entities. Dvaita Philosophy is opposed to the Advaita Philosophy of Shankaracharya which believes in Monism (Non-dualism).
Dvaita or Dualistic philosophy is also known as Bheda-vâda, Tattva-vâda, and Bimba-pratibimba-vâda. According to dvaita philosophy, souls are eternal but are not created by God, as in other systems of Vedanta or as in the Semitic religions. The souls are dependent on Vishnu and co-exist with Him eternally, supported by His will and entirely controlled by Him. Madhwacharya's doctrine differed significantly from traditional Hindu beliefs in the concept of eternal damnation. To him, souls belong to three classes, one class which qualify for liberation, Mukti-yogyas, another subject to eternal rebirth or eternally transmigrating due to samsara, Nitya-samsarins, and a class that is eventually condemned to eternal hell or Naraka, known as Tamo-yogyas. No other Hindu philosopher or group of Hinduism maintains such beliefs since it is accepted that souls will eventually obtain moksha, eventhough it may be after millions of rebirths.
Visishta Advaita :
The Absolute Supreme Reality referred to as Brahman, is a Transcendent Personality with infinite superlative qualities. He is Lord Vishnu, also known as Narayana. He creates the other two members of the Trimurti, namely, Creator Brahma and Shiva, the Lord of Deluge.
Narayana is the Absolute God. The Soul and the Universe are only parts of this Absolute and hence, Vishishtadvaita is panentheistic. The relationship of God to the Soul and the Universe is like the relationship of the Soul of Man to the body of Man. Individual souls are only parts of Brahman. God, Soul and Universe together form an inseparable unity which is one and has no second. This is the non-duality part.
Matter and Souls inhere in that Ultimate Reality as attributes to a substance. This is the qualification part of the non-duality.
Souls and Matter are only the body of God. Creation is a real act of God. It is the expansion of intelligence. Matter is fundamentally real and undergoes real revelation. The Soul is a higher mode than Matter, because it is conscious. It is also eternally real and eternally distinct. Final release, that comes, by the Lord's Grace, after the death of the body is a Communion with God. This philosophy believes in liberation through one's Karmas (actions) in accordiance with the Vedas, the Varna (caste or class) system and the four Ashramas (stages of life), along with intense devotion to Vishnu. Individual Souls retain their separate identities even after moksha. They live in Fellowship with God either serving Him or meditating on Him. The philosophy of this school is SriVaishnavism, a branch of Vaishnavism.[/FONT]
https://in.answers.yahoo.com/questi...etween vishisht advaita , advaitha philosophy
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
Raji Ram
Active member
This post from Prof. Nara is specially for you, Krish Sir!
Source: vadakalai and thenkalai differences (This thread is interesting!)
''... let me give a quick and partial list of the 18 or so differences between the two kalais. Let me also add that the two kalais lived happily together despite their doctrinal differences up until about 300 or so years.
A partial list of major differences on matters of doctrine and theology:
[TABLE="class: cms_table_grid"]
[TR]
[TD]No.
[/TD]
[TD]Concept[/TD]
[TD]Vadakalai[/TD]
[TD]Thenkalai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]Who is supreme Ishwara?[/TD]
[TD]Sriman Narayana and Mahalakshmi[/TD]
[TD]Only Sriman Narayana, Mahalakshmi is a jeevatma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]Who can grant mohsham?[/TD]
[TD]Sriman Narayana and/or Mahalakshmi can grant moksham[/TD]
[TD]Only Sriman Narayana can grant moksham[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]What is the role of Mahalakshmi?[/TD]
[TD]She acts as recommending agency (purushakaratvam) as well as moksham granting agency. She also joins Sriman Narayana as enjoyer of muktas service (bhokta)[/TD]
[TD]She only acts as recommending agency (purushakaratvam) and be bhokta along with Sriman Narayana.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]What is the means (upaya) for moksham?[/TD]
[TD]Bhakti Yoga or Prapatti (total and unconditional surrender)[/TD]
[TD]Only Prapatti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.[/TD]
[TD]What is prapatti?[/TD]
[TD]A separate ritual to be performed with the necessary prerequisites[/TD]
[TD]Just declaring oneself to be a Vaishnava via Panca Samskaram is prapatti.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.[/TD]
[TD]Nitya Karma[/TD]
[TD]Must be performed by all, including sanyasees[/TD]
[TD]Need not be performed by prapannas, but must do anyway to set an example for others.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.[/TD]
[TD]What about the papa karma of prapannas (ones who have performed prapatti)?[/TD]
[TD]Due to his unlimited compassion Sriman Narayana will erase the papa of prapannas?[/TD]
[TD]The lord actually loves to remove the sins of prapannas like a cow licks the impurities off of her calf, and like a lover enjoys the impurities in the body of the loved[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.[/TD]
[TD]Acharya paramparai[/TD]
[TD]Same as Thenkalai up until Ramanuja. The preeminent acharya after that is Swami Sri Desikan[/TD]
[TD]Same as Vadakalai up until Ramanuja. The preeminent acharya after that is Swami Manavala Mamunigal[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Partial list of cultural differences:
[TABLE="class: cms_table_grid"]
[TR]
[TD]No.
[/TD]
[TD]Concept
[/TD]
[TD]Vadakalai
[/TD]
[TD]Thenkalai
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]Namam[/TD]
[TD]U shaped with turmeric srichoornam in yellow color[/TD]
[TD]Y shaped with turmeric srichoornam in red color[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]Prostration[/TD]
[TD]Four times[/TD]
[TD]Strictly one time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]Madisar[/TD]
[TD]Different from smarta[/TD]
[TD]Similar to smarta[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]Serving food[/TD]
[TD]Rice and ghee first, everything else after that[/TD]
[TD]Everything first, then rice and ghee[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I am sure I am missing a few, but I think I got most of them.
Cheers!''
Source: vadakalai and thenkalai differences (This thread is interesting!)
''... let me give a quick and partial list of the 18 or so differences between the two kalais. Let me also add that the two kalais lived happily together despite their doctrinal differences up until about 300 or so years.
A partial list of major differences on matters of doctrine and theology:
[TABLE="class: cms_table_grid"]
[TR]
[TD]No.
[/TD]
[TD]Concept[/TD]
[TD]Vadakalai[/TD]
[TD]Thenkalai[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]Who is supreme Ishwara?[/TD]
[TD]Sriman Narayana and Mahalakshmi[/TD]
[TD]Only Sriman Narayana, Mahalakshmi is a jeevatma[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]Who can grant mohsham?[/TD]
[TD]Sriman Narayana and/or Mahalakshmi can grant moksham[/TD]
[TD]Only Sriman Narayana can grant moksham[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]What is the role of Mahalakshmi?[/TD]
[TD]She acts as recommending agency (purushakaratvam) as well as moksham granting agency. She also joins Sriman Narayana as enjoyer of muktas service (bhokta)[/TD]
[TD]She only acts as recommending agency (purushakaratvam) and be bhokta along with Sriman Narayana.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]What is the means (upaya) for moksham?[/TD]
[TD]Bhakti Yoga or Prapatti (total and unconditional surrender)[/TD]
[TD]Only Prapatti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.[/TD]
[TD]What is prapatti?[/TD]
[TD]A separate ritual to be performed with the necessary prerequisites[/TD]
[TD]Just declaring oneself to be a Vaishnava via Panca Samskaram is prapatti.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.[/TD]
[TD]Nitya Karma[/TD]
[TD]Must be performed by all, including sanyasees[/TD]
[TD]Need not be performed by prapannas, but must do anyway to set an example for others.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.[/TD]
[TD]What about the papa karma of prapannas (ones who have performed prapatti)?[/TD]
[TD]Due to his unlimited compassion Sriman Narayana will erase the papa of prapannas?[/TD]
[TD]The lord actually loves to remove the sins of prapannas like a cow licks the impurities off of her calf, and like a lover enjoys the impurities in the body of the loved[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.[/TD]
[TD]Acharya paramparai[/TD]
[TD]Same as Thenkalai up until Ramanuja. The preeminent acharya after that is Swami Sri Desikan[/TD]
[TD]Same as Vadakalai up until Ramanuja. The preeminent acharya after that is Swami Manavala Mamunigal[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Partial list of cultural differences:
[TABLE="class: cms_table_grid"]
[TR]
[TD]No.
[/TD]
[TD]Concept
[/TD]
[TD]Vadakalai
[/TD]
[TD]Thenkalai
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]Namam[/TD]
[TD]U shaped with turmeric srichoornam in yellow color[/TD]
[TD]Y shaped with turmeric srichoornam in red color[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]Prostration[/TD]
[TD]Four times[/TD]
[TD]Strictly one time[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]Madisar[/TD]
[TD]Different from smarta[/TD]
[TD]Similar to smarta[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]Serving food[/TD]
[TD]Rice and ghee first, everything else after that[/TD]
[TD]Everything first, then rice and ghee[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I am sure I am missing a few, but I think I got most of them.
Cheers!''
Raji Ram
Active member
I made a mistake in one of my posts, in which I mentioned the two IyengAr styles of wearing the madisAr.
Fortunately, I could search and get the correct answer. Then edited my post! Thanks to my friend Prof. Nara.
He is one of my well wishers and used to encourage my write-ups in our Literature forum! Gave 5 stars too! :thumb:
Fortunately, I could search and get the correct answer. Then edited my post! Thanks to my friend Prof. Nara.
He is one of my well wishers and used to encourage my write-ups in our Literature forum! Gave 5 stars too! :thumb:
every thing has a story
Some updates on Tirupathi temple.
I went there on 9th and 10th april .
First day tried the entry point for senior citizens. [One has to be over 65 years to qualify as one].
From the out gate to checkin point got transported by battery operated vehicle provided to senior citizens by TTD.
After check up of age {aadhar was useful] and giving thumbprint got admitted into a hall [one of three] .
Here there are three halls -one who came earlier for Three PM entrty ,nect small one for disabled and third for those who came later.
Since my entry was around one thirty PM made it to third hall.
Most interesting -no dress code enforcement [dhoti etc] for senior citizens.
Inside these cages there are rows of chairs .
Got reminded of POW camps of world war .
However got treated pretty well with regular supply of unlimited cold water, butter milk , kesari, white pongal, thayir saadam .
At dot oh three pm, all got into the corridor one behind the other in a queue . Also there was security check for belongings with these items being passed through
scanners.
In fifteen minutes flat , this group got escorted into the inner sanctum and out through the shortest route on the ground floor.
Laddus -large one rs 20 or 4 for seventy could be had at separate counter. Even other wise one could collect one small one free in line.
The volunteers were all women dressed in neat red sarees and very kind and helpful.
No pushing or shoving or mixing with the general devotees.
Mostly this senior group were mostly brahmins or from well off background.
I visited on 9th april -day of panguni uthram.
The next day , my relative had arranged special darshan ticket of rupees three hundred.
I could go atTwo pm for three pm darshan.
Here no sympathetic approach.
Strict guidelines for dress [dhoti etc], had to stand in partial heat[40 degrees plus} , with no shoes[ I had a pair of socks though], Got shoved and pushed through route
to darshan and felt relieved to be thrown out fast.
So sensible to play the senior citizen card.lol
I went there on 9th and 10th april .
First day tried the entry point for senior citizens. [One has to be over 65 years to qualify as one].
From the out gate to checkin point got transported by battery operated vehicle provided to senior citizens by TTD.
After check up of age {aadhar was useful] and giving thumbprint got admitted into a hall [one of three] .
Here there are three halls -one who came earlier for Three PM entrty ,nect small one for disabled and third for those who came later.
Since my entry was around one thirty PM made it to third hall.
Most interesting -no dress code enforcement [dhoti etc] for senior citizens.
Inside these cages there are rows of chairs .
Got reminded of POW camps of world war .
However got treated pretty well with regular supply of unlimited cold water, butter milk , kesari, white pongal, thayir saadam .
At dot oh three pm, all got into the corridor one behind the other in a queue . Also there was security check for belongings with these items being passed through
scanners.
In fifteen minutes flat , this group got escorted into the inner sanctum and out through the shortest route on the ground floor.
Laddus -large one rs 20 or 4 for seventy could be had at separate counter. Even other wise one could collect one small one free in line.
The volunteers were all women dressed in neat red sarees and very kind and helpful.
No pushing or shoving or mixing with the general devotees.
Mostly this senior group were mostly brahmins or from well off background.
I visited on 9th april -day of panguni uthram.
The next day , my relative had arranged special darshan ticket of rupees three hundred.
I could go atTwo pm for three pm darshan.
Here no sympathetic approach.
Strict guidelines for dress [dhoti etc], had to stand in partial heat[40 degrees plus} , with no shoes[ I had a pair of socks though], Got shoved and pushed through route
to darshan and felt relieved to be thrown out fast.
So sensible to play the senior citizen card.lol
More interesting titbits.
One lady fainted sitting in closed enclosure . I was told that she had fasted since the previous night.Lot of sprinkling water and being given butter milk revived her.I did
not know faith could drive them into such situation. Her husband , another senior citizen was totally helpless and did not know how to cope with this.
There is some way of entry into temple under the head jeer seva. Under this , some devout followers of jeer could get darshan of God.
One in a group of five relatives of mine was not allowed here as he had a kirudha. With that appearance was not considered to be follower of the jeer.Lol
Ahobila madam in the temple complex has good facilities for stay including AC rooms. There are separate ones for senior and junior jeer.
Some get free meals there if one displays caste signs and acts devout.I held the hands of one old lady [over 80 years } a relative, to get qualified as devout.Only one had to sit on the ground
and have food.The fellow serving there first made me remove my shirt. Then I refused to strip further . He looked at me strangely as I did not have a poonool.
But food was simple and nice.I gave him money as I do not believe in freebies when it is food.
The workers there have a fascination for chappals and footwear. Some accompanying me lost theirs.
There is a price to be paid for belonging to a clan.lol
Ahobilam is a vadagalai sect.
They tolerated thengalai.
Vadhyars there performed with lot of shraddha.Smoke from the fire they lighted though made one head for the exit .
I love piped music. The fellows who played sanskrit song 'bhavayami gopalabala' in yaman kalyan of annamacharyya describing leelas of krishna as bala on twin
nadaswaram was enchanting.
One lady fainted sitting in closed enclosure . I was told that she had fasted since the previous night.Lot of sprinkling water and being given butter milk revived her.I did
not know faith could drive them into such situation. Her husband , another senior citizen was totally helpless and did not know how to cope with this.
There is some way of entry into temple under the head jeer seva. Under this , some devout followers of jeer could get darshan of God.
One in a group of five relatives of mine was not allowed here as he had a kirudha. With that appearance was not considered to be follower of the jeer.Lol
Ahobila madam in the temple complex has good facilities for stay including AC rooms. There are separate ones for senior and junior jeer.
Some get free meals there if one displays caste signs and acts devout.I held the hands of one old lady [over 80 years } a relative, to get qualified as devout.Only one had to sit on the ground
and have food.The fellow serving there first made me remove my shirt. Then I refused to strip further . He looked at me strangely as I did not have a poonool.
But food was simple and nice.I gave him money as I do not believe in freebies when it is food.
The workers there have a fascination for chappals and footwear. Some accompanying me lost theirs.
There is a price to be paid for belonging to a clan.lol
Ahobilam is a vadagalai sect.
They tolerated thengalai.
Vadhyars there performed with lot of shraddha.Smoke from the fire they lighted though made one head for the exit .
I love piped music. The fellows who played sanskrit song 'bhavayami gopalabala' in yaman kalyan of annamacharyya describing leelas of krishna as bala on twin
nadaswaram was enchanting.
Last edited:
Raji Ram
Active member
I have already shared the experience of my Iyer friends, who were advised by one of the disciples of Jeer Swami to dress up
in V. Kalai IyengAr madisAr and panchakachcham and join their group at an appointed time, to get dharshan of the Lord!
ray: P.S: IyengAr madisAr is much easier with a six yard saree, which my friend knew!
Lord Balaji has left his consort Padmavathi at lower tirupathi.
A trip to tirumala is not complete without calling on Thayar.
Even here , there is normal [free] darshan and special darshan.
There are strict timings for darshan and archanai with differential rates.Hundred for darshan after 5 pm , 200 rupees for archanai before 5 pm.
Laddus are not as good as in tirumalai
Here also wait time of an hour or so in queue.
similar security checks and dress codes.
What is excellent are the roads on tirupathi and tirumalai undertaken by Road and building department{R and B] leading to these places from rail heads ,hotels , airport.
But taxis fleece unless one opts for ola etc.Buses to tirumalai are good and inexpensive.
Most from chennai take tourism buses I suppose.
A trip to tirumala is not complete without calling on Thayar.
Even here , there is normal [free] darshan and special darshan.
There are strict timings for darshan and archanai with differential rates.Hundred for darshan after 5 pm , 200 rupees for archanai before 5 pm.
Laddus are not as good as in tirumalai
Here also wait time of an hour or so in queue.
similar security checks and dress codes.
What is excellent are the roads on tirupathi and tirumalai undertaken by Road and building department{R and B] leading to these places from rail heads ,hotels , airport.
But taxis fleece unless one opts for ola etc.Buses to tirumalai are good and inexpensive.
Most from chennai take tourism buses I suppose.
tbs
0
hi
i travel to thirupathi last 30 yrs by TTDC TOURISM BUS....even this year too without fail...one day trip all inclusive even ladoo prasadam too...
always nice evening dharshan of thayar PADMAVATHI AT THIRUCHANUR.....then chennai back....same night...
Last edited:
tbs
0
hi
ticket and sharshan is their responsibility...breakfast/lunch included....but hotel is their choice...
One new update on tirupati laddus.
FSSAi-food safety agency would like to perform an audit of laddus from tirupathi kitchen.
They would like to ensure these laddus conform to safety standards.
But in the past TTD has resisted the move of this agency to test their products or their making in their kitchen.
I do not know if it is safe to distribute these to all friends and relatives -I have quite a few of them
FSSAi-food safety agency would like to perform an audit of laddus from tirupathi kitchen.
They would like to ensure these laddus conform to safety standards.
But in the past TTD has resisted the move of this agency to test their products or their making in their kitchen.
I do not know if it is safe to distribute these to all friends and relatives -I have quite a few of them
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