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How to rationalise Purohit services and make it more transparent and justified

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I often wondered why the services of purphits is not rationalised and made transparent and organised. Can Tamil Brahmnis website can bring in some reforms in this area if it is not already done ?

Of late, purohit services has become like that of a contractor. A fixed sum is collected with no accountability. Specially if some one dies in one's family, they are quoted large sums about which they cannot ask for receipts or accounts. Dhanams are not really donations. They go back to the shops or recirculated. Large sums are demanded and collected for a group of rituals for which no split up charges are given.

We should have a forum where purohits are registered and a rate list must be given for each ritual. The purohits can be divided spending upon their educations and seniority. There must be some accountability and grievance redressal system. If a purohit does a disinterested or casual job, we dont have a forum to complain. We dont even know whether what we pay is correct and whether it really is justified and whether it really goes to the right person.

A reform is required and we should know why we pay a certain fees and how justified it is. Reform is required in this direction.

Regards
C P Sridhar
 
Can Tamil Brahmnis website can bring in some reforms in this area if it is not already done ?
Short answer - No. This task is beyond the means of this website to be taken up officially.

However members can suggest/recommend based on their experience.
 
How can rationalization be done for Purohits? There are different sets of purohits available in Tamil Nadu - Smarthas / Vaishnavas etc. Smartha cannot go to a Vaishnava and vice versa, unless non-availability of relevant purohit.

As an Iyer, I agree that large sums are being collected for marriage and death: especially in the case of death sums are collected for dhanams, which are distributed in different kinds nowadays. Since most of the Iyer purohits are living in difficult conditions, it is our responsibility to see dhanams reach the needy, instead of the well to do purohit. This is the only way we can rationalize.
 
I often wondered why the services of purphits is not rationalised and made transparent and organised. Can Tamil Brahmnis website can bring in some reforms in this area if it is not already done ?

Of late, purohit services has become like that of a contractor. A fixed sum is collected with no accountability. Specially if some one dies in one's family, they are quoted large sums about which they cannot ask for receipts or accounts. Dhanams are not really donations. They go back to the shops or recirculated. Large sums are demanded and collected for a group of rituals for which no split up charges are given.

We should have a forum where purohits are registered and a rate list must be given for each ritual. The purohits can be divided spending upon their educations and seniority. There must be some accountability and grievance redressal system. If a purohit does a disinterested or casual job, we dont have a forum to complain. We dont even know whether what we pay is correct and whether it really is justified and whether it really goes to the right person.

A reform is required and we should know why we pay a certain fees and how justified it is. Reform is required in this direction.

Regards
C P Sridhar

Dear Sridhar,
I also concur with your view.
Yes; purohit services have become that of a contractor.

In my view, persons who all, want all religious formalities to be observed after the death of a kith and kin in their family would have to incur 3 to 4 lacs as total expenses at the current rate..i.e. from day 1 to 1 year...............

Now only 5% of the brahmins engage purohits for performing Amavasya Tharpanam; Rest either skip it or do it on their own using books / / CDs / memory.

In cities, many skip the Srarthams and do it as Hiranya srarthams because of cost / other factors.Some do it with the aid of books.

Some thing has to be done; the forum could suggest/recommend for finding some innovative way to solve this problem.
 
If you do not have a regular family Vadhiyar to do your monthly ammavasya tarpanam , annual shraddham and if you are going to call some XYZ Vadhiyar suddenly to perform the last rites of close relative / family member then he will definitely eat as much as he can as he knows he will never again meet you .
Also Vadhiyars charge based on the networth of that individual i.e if you stay in a premium place in a premium apartment then you will be quoted one rate but if you stay in a LIG colony then the rates will be different . There is no way this can be standardized and only solution is that those serious of observing these rituals need to engage a regular vadhiar for their monthly ammavasya , annual shraddhams and pay them generously ( i.e you cant give him the same Dakshina that you gave 10-15 years back and better to regularly revise your Dakshina once in 3 years or so ) so that when bigger events come they will not fleece you as they undertand you and your situation .
Also the rates of the Vadhiyars are based on their seniority and scholarship .
So the best way to solve in my opinion is to have a regular family Vadhiyar and voluntarily pay him generously for all the monthly , annual events that are taking place in your house and develop mutual trust and respect for each other . This is the way it has been working for me for the last 15 years . For people demanding services only when a death occurs ,I have no proper solution for the same .
 
If there is a family vadhyar, the chances of getting fleeced is remote. But those families that migrate from village to cities and city to city can not bring their family vadhyar along with them. And they suffer. They are fleeced by the purohits. It is at such times that one keenly feels the need for some rationalisation. So rationalisation is indeed a need. In Churches the charges for various rituals such as marriage, death etc., are fixed. There is no fleecing. Why is this not possible among brahmins? Efforts are needed.

Now who can bell the cat?

Each brahmin family sub scribes to a certain mutt. If they can bring some pressure on the mutts to discipline the purohits, it may work. The mutts have to train the purohits, disperse them across the country, support them with a monthly pay which will be the survival allowance and fix the rates for each samskara that is performed by hindu brahmins. The members can contribute their mite to a fund exclusively for this purpose to be managed by the mutts. If a well to do Asthika is willing to pay voluntarily any amount above the card rate, he should have the freedom to pay that to his purohit. No member should engage a purohit who has not been issued an ID and ID number by the mutts. If this can be implimented it would solve the problem.
 
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Vathiyars are now event managers they arrange everything from cremation to death certificate There are packages as per your needs you choose to suit your picket!
 
If there is a family vadhyar, the chances of getting fleeced is remote. But those families that migrate from village to cities and city to city can not bring their family vadhyar along with them. And they suffer. They are fleeced by the purohits.

I understand this problem but then best in that case is to get a reference from your Original vadhiyar about a suitable person where you are locating to and make that person as your family Vadhiyar .
 
IMHO , no regulations can be thrust on vadhyars. They can be persuaded to form their own association which can decide on

their rates and terms of engagement for various rituals. asthikas can approach their association for engagement of vadhyars

for rituals in case they are unable to get one for their functions. people probably can also contribute to the association for

welfare of vadhyars on voluntary basis
 
hi

its not normal profession...its not organised sector job......if we can provide pension/provident fund facilities.....may be transparency

possible...if .the service like it...pay it....or do it yourself......simple theory....
 
what this forum can do ?

make a database of vadhyars atleast in chennai and bangalore with contact details and area of work.

list various rituals with short descriptions and guidelines for compensation for performing based on market rates.

this should be easily possible.

IN addition links can be made available for facilitating performing of rituals if available in other websites.

These to start with will reduce the hassles many face in locating and engaging vadhyars
 
hi

just info....vadhyars acute shortage in vaishnava community.....especially in vadagalai sect....i may be wrong...so

supply and demand theory applicable for vadhyar profession too...
 
what this forum can do ?

make a database of vadhyars atleast in chennai and bangalore with contact details and area of work.

list various rituals with short descriptions and guidelines for compensation for performing based on market rates.

this should be easily possible.

IN addition links can be made available for facilitating performing of rituals if available in other websites.

These to start with will reduce the hassles many face in locating and engaging vadhyars

This can be a solution, no doubt.

But the first requirement is the required mindset.

For most of the evolved, modern,"educated", intellectual, brahmins with "liberal" and "revolutionary " mindset, all the vaideeka brahmins with a tuft and pancha gachcham are lesser souls. They are important only on the day of a marriage or a sradhdham or Tarpanam like a candom which is important only for an occasion.

These evolved souls rarely visit a temple, never mixes with those poor tufted brahmins there as it is below their dignity. So they are totally un aware of the dynamics and economics of the vadhyar-grihasta relationship. So they look for the same comfort which they get when they go to a barber's saloon where the notice board there clearly exhibnits the card rates for various services like hair cutting alone, hair cutting with shave, shaving alone with massage etc.,

If only they can spend some more time participating in the temple functions and interact witht eh vaideekas there(it will take less time than the time they spend in nursing a drink watching a TV programme in the house before the dinner).

The blame is to be shared equally.
 
what this forum can do ?

make a database of vadhyars atleast in chennai and bangalore with contact details and area of work.
list various rituals with short descriptions and guidelines for compensation for performing based on market rates.
this should be easily possible.

IN addition links can be made available for facilitating performing of rituals if available in other websites.

These to start with will reduce the hassles many face in locating and engaging vadhyars

Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association(Regd) branches are distributing " Paambu Panchaangam" to its members free of cost

with attachment of additional pages containing Names & cell Nos of Prohit and some other important details in the area of

their operation. But the Association would not interfere in the rates / charges.
 
Purohits/Priests have become a law unto themselves. Once considered poorest of the poors - street barber, carpenter, masons, tailors, elementary school teachers and so on. Today, there is an upside-down change. Purohits and shastris are also enjoying the change. What can be done. " திருடராய் பார்த்து திருந்தாவிட்டால் திருட்டை ஒழிக்க முடியாது".... Just knowing a few mantras, the community bloats with sizable number of VRS lots who apply company law here. But the religious heads can dictate to the category. Above all it is time we have a minimum standard of living parameters. Like one must have a decent house with all amenities and provision for (only) children's education, a proper health plan and retirement plan. Fix karthas-purohit ratio. This category should compulsorily be sent to listen to "pravachans" of the learned except for the fag end of such discourses when it will be only about collection of money.
 
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This can be a solution, no doubt.

But the first requirement is the required mindset.

For most of the evolved, modern,"educated", intellectual, brahmins with "liberal" and "revolutionary " mindset, all the vaideeka brahmins with a tuft and pancha gachcham are lesser souls. They are important only on the day of a marriage or a sradhdham or Tarpanam like a candom which is important only for an occasion.

These evolved souls rarely visit a temple, never mixes with those poor tufted brahmins there as it is below their dignity. So they are totally un aware of the dynamics and economics of the vadhyar-grihasta relationship. So they look for the same comfort which they get when they go to a barber's saloon where the notice board there clearly exhibnits the card rates for various services like hair cutting alone, hair cutting with shave, shaving alone with massage etc.,

If only they can spend some more time participating in the temple functions and interact witht eh vaideekas there(it will take less time than the time they spend in nursing a drink watching a TV programme in the house before the dinner).

The blame is to be shared equally.
With time , people change. Forces of modernity is changing the mindset of not only asthikas , It is making vadhyars also wiser and materialistic. It is unwise to live

with half century old mindsets and expect others to follow the same. Modern vadhyars are commercial and are here to offer their services . so nothing wrong if they

are engaged for specific tasks such as marriage or death with terms specified and accepted.Most of them are free lancers and make a killing when there is a dire need

for them. Most aasthikas try to manage without one for simple functions thru cassettes etc . Vadhyars roles are getting limited to occassions.They have a larger market

these days with other communites like non brahmins also engaging them at better rates.
 
How to rationalise Purohit services and make it more tran

How to rationalise Purohit services and make it more transparent and justified
Very interesting Thread. At the outset I wish to confide, that I do not follow many of the rituals and ceremonies regularly. But when the occasion comes, I offer dakshina and bhiksha to their satisfaction plus some money for their travel expenses.

Well,I am pained to read some of the harsh comments towards this dwindling community of learned Brahmins, who spend half of their life time in learning Vedic subjects in Veda Patasalas run with meagre funds. They leave their parents at a tender age after getting their upanayanam done and spend their entire youth in strict disciplined learning without any outside entertainment like other children of that age. I have seen some Veda Patasalas run with the munificence of other communities. The conditions are minimal. When they come out of the Veda patasala after completing their studies, they understand that they have no future unless they earn by running from place to place to perform rituals and pujas for others. Some of them are lucky to have regular families to attend. They have no retirement benefits to take care of them in oldage, neither any medical fund if they fall sick. Sun or rain these people have to commute from place to place in crowded cities and attend their duty without delay.

Please think for a while, do we hesitate for spending on costly clothes and jewellery for weddings ? Don't we reserve
marriage halls on exhorbitant rent or engage cooks and pay as per their demand ? Then why should we complain when a learned Brahmin asks for money to perform the wedding or other ceremonies. (Recently I got an invitation card with "dazzling three dimentional" effect, must be very expensive!)

I feel "Hindu religious Mutts" should takeup this job and regularise the conditions of our Priests and Purohits, just as Arya Samaj and other religious communities. It is indeed good that our people in US, Canada, UK and Australia look after the priests very well.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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We accept changes in various walks of life.But we are not for rationalising ceremonies.We continue to perform all rituals as mere rituals by repeating the mantras uttered by Prohits without knowing the meaning.Sanskrit is not known to 99% of the karthas.

On many occasions Prohits in cities, due to constraint of time either skip some portions of the mantras or utter in such a speed without giving opportunity for the kartha to follow up. Karthas are also in wrapped up mood to finish everything at the earliest.It all appear that the rituals are mostly performed to create an impression in the minds of the relatives that kartha is not omitting any ceremony.

What is the use in it ?

A day will dawn that all Prohit services would be rationalised or the mantras could be made transparent in mother tongue and prohit services dispensed with. The day is not far off.
 
I have read a post somewhere in another thread that the rituals are signs of our respect to the departed souls.
I also accept it; but more respect should have been shown while they were alive.
 
First of all, finding a Purohit itself is difficult. Even we are ready to pay more than what they fixed as a charge it not an easy to find a purohit. As the demand is very high- supply is very low scenario prevailing in the society we are not in position to ask even a single question at them. If we ponder over this with true introspection we can realize that the true problem is rested only with us. Because of the poor recognition of the society and their own sect, the prohits lost their passion on their profession. If this trend continues for some more period, not even a single Prohit could be available at service. Now money is not the matter: recognition alone do.
 
First of all, finding a Purohit itself is difficult. Even we are ready to pay more than what they fixed as a charge it not an easy to find a purohit. As the demand is very high- supply is very low scenario prevailing in the society we are not in position to ask even a single question at them. If we ponder over this with true introspection we can realize that the true problem is rested only with us. Because of the poor recognition of the society and their own sect, the prohits lost their passion on their profession. If this trend continues for some more period, not even a single Prohit could be available at service. Now money is not the matter: recognition alone do.

At Chennai finding Prohits is not a problem. There are lot of people available. A few own four wheelers. They arrive at our door, very punctually if we pay without any bargain.

Last week, the first death anniversary for my elder brother was conducted. Prohit asked Rs 95000/- for the four days.We gave without any bargain. Prohits came in time without making us wait and finished.

Again affordability is the question.

Here again, the prohits who are very conscious in time management rush through the process of the rituals so as to enable themselves to attend the next one or two programme on the same day.
 
I have met a very busy vAdhyAr, who started the Varalakshmi pooja in my relative's house and after ten minutes, started one more

poojA in another house, through his mobile phone!! Howzaat?

Learned vAdhyArs demand a lot of money and people are ready to pay; those who are not willing to shell out money either skip the
rituals or go for the Arya samAj type rituals. :peace:
 
Not all Smartha prohits are well placed. Those who preach rationalization may please visit South Mada Street and see how many prohits are eagerly waiting for a day's job.

Before we rationalize, we must call all Smartha prohits and tell them not to force their wards to follow their footsteps. They should be advised to educate their wards and send for employment.

When I was working in a reputed Travel Agency, a subsidiary of multi-national hotel chain, the Chief Cashier was a part time prohit. This profession can be done as a part time.
 
Not all Smartha prohits are well placed. ........
They should be well versed in Sanskrit, to do a roaring business!

I have heard a vAdhyAr say, 'akAla mrtyu karaNam', replacing 'h' with 'k' in 'haraNam' and entirely changing the meaning! :shocked:
 
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