Hinduism's Conquest of the West

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

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Maharishi Mahesh Yogi--Transcendental Meditation

We all know about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and TM. I would like to point out only some relevant facts. In 1939, Maharishi became a disciple of Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, who was the Sankaracharya of Jyotir Math. He was his secretary from 1941 until Brahmananda Saraswati's death in 1953. In Transcendental meditation it is the Sankaracharya of Jyotir Math who is the Guru and not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Mahesh Yogi launched it in Madras in 1957. At that time it was called the The Spiritual Regeneration Movement. The word Transcendental Meditation was coined later in the U.S.

Meditation has always been part of Hindu and Buddhist religions. Till T.M came on the scene, meditation was always considered a Hindu and Buddhist religious practice. The greatness of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was that, he made Meditation a universal practice by emphasizing on the medical effects, rather than the religious/spiritual effect. Though many of the Christians continue to call it Hindu, Maharishi was able to, by and large convince every one that it was a medical rather than a spiritual practice. Later the Christians launched their own Meditation quoting Biblical sources. This was a reaction to the popularity of T.M.

But in T. M like Yoga there is always an undertone of Hinduism. Again Maharshi Mahesh Yogi was almost obsessed with the Vedas and Bhagavad Gita. For sometime his followers were even canvassing for a religion called Vedism separate from Hinduism. A number of Vedic scholars also joined in this effort. Tamil Brahmins were interested in this. I will come back to this later.

Mahesh Yogi popularized Astrology ( Vedic Astrology), Ayur Veda (Maharishi Ayur Veda), and Vastu Sastra (Maharishi Sthapatya Veda) in the West. His organization was hell bent on trade marking everything. That is the reason for the new names. This commercialization had unintended consequences. If you search the net you will see web sites about Buddhist Meditation, Zen meditation, Christian meditation and even Sufi meditation. But no Hindu meditation. Again the entire Hindu astrology has been converted to Vedic Astrology. These are all basically Hindu ideas. Maharishi was running a TV channel in India called "Vedic Vision". They were airing Vedic chanting throughout the day and recitation of slokas and performance of Pujas. Of course you had to put with the rambling thoughts of the Maharishi.

Finally Maharishi Mahesh Yogi did not become a Cult figure like most of the religious teachers who went/are going from India. He did not say he is God. He did not ask people to worship him. He was revered as a great Guru. That is all.

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was followed by innumerable Hindu teachers and god-men/women. My friend who is a resident of an Ashram in the U.S knows all the latest Babas and teachers from India because they go to his Ashram. Some of them are hardly heard of in India.

I will write about the major figures and also some minor figures who though not very popular brought traditional/ritualistic Hinduism to the West.

But al these Babas/God-men/women/Sadhus/Yogis who have traveled to the West have helped in popularizing Hinduism.

Hare Krishna Movement: Founded by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the Hare Krishna movement has been one of the major influences in popularizing Hinduism in the West. We all know about ISKCON.

 

[sridharvasudevan]

The work of many outside India in spreading Hinduism or its rich practices are true and really needs to be appreciated. While, with what I have, heard, seen and read, there has been no indication that there was ever a conquest.

If the conquest is about the minds of people for a short time frame - i agree, if the conquest is about the ears of people for a short time frame - i agree, if the conquest is about being able to bring a few thousands into the spiritual path - i agree.

Hinduism primarily has been strong for its vast spiritual wealth. This evoked the realized soul(s) to help humanity through its various literary works. We would be better off accepting the fact that we are even losing to an extent in our own home ground. Though there has been scores and scores of people writing and discussing about the works of meditators...I do not see a single title on this forum which has dedicated itself to discuss meditation or its benefits. Pardon me if there has been one ever, but definitely not being pursued on this forum at least recently.

I would like to comment on a part of the posting made by Nacchinarkiniyan on Swami Vivekananda, Paramahansa Yogananda - 12-21-2008, 08:51 PM. If Vedanta was introduced to the West by Swami Vivekananda it was Paramahansa
Yogananda who brought Yoga to the west.

Yogananda Paramahansa and Vivekananda lived within the last couple of hundred years. Christ lived more than 2000 years earlier. According to "Autobiography of a Yogi", which Nacchinarkiniyan also refers to....Christ was believed to be a disciple of Babaji. Whether this is true only Christ and Babaji know. However, the idea that Christ was into vedanta and meditation has been well recognized by this book, yogananda paramahansa himself, and atleast a few other greats of his time. If we give them the honor of having spoken truth and only truth, we may have to concede, Christ himself did bring vedanta and (Kriya) yoga/ meditation first to the west. Atleast before vivekananda and yogananda paramahansa.

All the more...Kriya Yoga as per Yogananda Paramahansa is a form of meditation - raja yoga and not just a science of Yoga asanas. If Egypt is in the west, then the Pyramids are also so. The Pyramids are a standing example of people more than 5000 years ago having understood the value of meditation. Though some generations of egyptians later had forgotten the essence and distorted the practices to a mere cult.

Well, the only reason for my quoting all these above is to say, we were only reminding people of the west periodically through our own prodigies, about things their ancestors already knew, but later generations kept forgetting or losing over generations spent pursuing materialism.

 

[happyhindu]

Christ was believed to be a disciple of Babaji. Whether this is true only Christ and Babaji know.

Have heard about this...yes it is beleived that Christ is a disciple of Babaji....it is also said that Sri Adi Shankara was taught by Babaji, so was Kabir Das, the story of Mahavtar Babaji is itself absolutely fascinating.

Sri N-ji,

Am trying to imagine you as a hippie with shoulder-length hair. Sir, you have really wetted my interest. Please if you do not mind, can you tell us more about your hippie years - wud you see yourself as struggling to discover something within yourself? What drew you to it?

 

[nagu1966]

:clap2:

Last month I was in Banares. We were cruising along the Ganga river in a huge boat on the Kartik Purnima night. We were singing Kirtans and reciting slokas. We passed by many boats full of pilgrims/tourists. Whenever we passed by a boat full of Western pilgrims, we greeted each other with full throated shouts of "Har Har Mahadev." Of course our group also consisted of mostly people form the west.

I was looking at my friend sitting near me. An 18 year old beautiful girl from U.S wearing ocher saree who spent most of her time in participating in our common Yagyas or doing Puja on her own in the ghats.She knew more about Pujas and Mantras than the average Hindu Brahmin. The religious fervor shown by her and all my friends (the temples reverberated with our chanting of Mantras and Slokas) from the west especially U.S showed me to what extent Hinduism has conquered the West. I am not talking about the Hare Krishna (ISKCON) people. They are only a small part of the phenomena.

In my next few postings I intend to trace the history of the spread of Hinduism in the West in the past, recent developments, and last the reaction of the Hindus both in the west and India to these developments.

First by Hinduism I mean the entire gamut of Hindu thoughts ranging from Advaita Vedanta, Yoga, Meditation, Tantra et.al. Some Hindus may not accept some of these as Hinduism, but for a Christian even the thought of these ideas means straying from the accepted Christian beliefs.

 

[nagu1966]

hi cant agree more with you. sometimes i am ashamed thati don't know enough about our own religion and culture. we are caught up in our own cycle and seldom stop to think what are we trying to achieve and where will the se material pursuits lead us to. its story of the saint catching the cat!

thanks

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Shri Nacchi, I do not have any specific comments to offer as yet... but I find it an interesting read.

I guess, this by itself qualifies as a comment...

Regards

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Tantra

The Sacred and the Profane.

The name Tantra evokes a mixed response from most Hindus. Though most Hindu practices have the element of Tantra they swear that it is not so. This is specially true of the Kerala Brahmins and Tamil Brahmins. In Kerala they swear that their worship is Tantrik. The priest is even called Tantri. Tamil Smartas swear by Sri Yantra/Sri Chakra and Sri Vidya. But both of them vehemently deny any connection with the other Tantras and practices you read about. Terms like Samayachara/Vamachara, Sampradhaya, Kowla are used.

They are not wrong. But to understand their answer you have to understand the very basics of Tantras.

Tantras strictly follow the Guru tradition. You can not become a Tantrik without the Guru. The books on Tantra are not sufficient for a person to follow the practices. Some books have been written in the last few decades giving more details than the old books. But even these are incomplete because

Tantrik practices depend on

1. Achara

2. Sampradhaya

Though the Acharas are defined generally, the definition is not absolute. Every Tantrik defines to himself what Achara he belongs to. This is as per the belief in his Sampradhaya.

There are thousands of Sampradhayas. Practices vary greatly. Books have been written to espouse the supremacy of particular practices.

Last Tantriks in general are not interested in either explaining or defending their practices to ousiders.

Pancha Makaras or the 5 Ms are accepted Tantrik practices. But there are very few Acharas or Sampradhayas which follow it. Even in the Sampradhayas which practice it, these are only for advanced adepts. The basic idea behind many of these practices is the defiance of conventional patterns of social behaviour. There is a school of thought which believes that spiritual progress is accelerated by rejecting all the conventional social norms. The Siddhas believed in this.

I know some Upasakas who follow this tradition. One of them is retired police official who has constructed an Ashram next to a cremation ground and settled down there with his Sakthi for doing Upasana.

Again there is a common misconception that Tantra is anti-Brahminical. Strange that a body of books written by Brahmins, many of them with impeccable Vaidic qualifications like Bhaskara Raya Makhin should be considered anti-Brahminical. The reason is that Tantra allows anyone without restriction of caste or sex to take initiation. It is for the Guru to decide whether someone is qualified or not. This doing away with caste restrictions was interpreted by some as anti-Brahminical. I know of a tradition in Tamil Nadu where the Guru parampara alternates between Brahmana and Abrahmana. One Brahmana followed by ABrahmana who is followed by a Brahmana. But again some traditions do restrict themselves to only the twice born.

Tantras were written as religious manuals to enable people to progress towards God. They are not in the field of deciding about social system. Sometimes I am asked "Was your Guru in favour of caste system?" I never asked him that. He has instructed me for progressing in my spiritual quest. Belief or non belief in the caste system is not a pre-requisite of Spiritual quest or progress. The same attitude is taken by most of the Gurus. For heaven's sake we are talking about religious teachers not social reformers. Did anyone know about Sri Ramakrishna's views on the caste system. I do not think he even thought about it. But because his disciples were from different castes, it is interpreted that he did not believe in the caste system.

With these general remarks about Tantra let us see Tantras role in the spread of Hinduism.

Tantra is Magic. Everyone wants magical powers. Tantra talks about iddhis/Powers. Ashtama Siddhi. This is the reason for the fascination of the Tantras. A number of books have been written about Tantras. Most of them have emphasized the esoteric nature of Tantra. This is their USP.

Anyone who has read books on Tantra knows something about Mantras, Yantras and Mudras. Some of them have searched for Gurus for initiation into Mantra Sadhana.Tantrik Gurus have gone abroad to popularize these practices. Some of the popular Gurus (though not calling themselves Tantriks. Yogi is a more acceptable word.) have also used Mantra Diksha as the basis of their practice.

So some of the people who are initially attracted to the so called sacred sex and esoterism of the Tantras ended up by imbibing some of the ideas of Hinduism.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Tantras and Veda

One question which is often asked is "Are Tantras anti Vedic?". The straight and definitive answer is NO. Tantras do believe in the Vedas. They have always been considered by every one as Asthika literature. In Hinduism all the literature which do not believe in the supremacy of the Vedas are called Nasthika.

Tantras are considered an expansion and interpretation of the Karma Khanda portion of the Vedas.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sir,

Thankyou very much for this. Please also explain something about the tantra side of vedas, esp as regards interpretation. Thanks again.

 

[malgova.mango]

Nacchi,

Don't take this has hijacking the thread, Bhagwan's teaching is on Upanishads and Tantras are Upasana taught in Upanishads they don't care about Karma Kanda. For them "Kaivalyam" is the goal.

Jathi's are mentioned in Karma Kanda for the Loka Hitam. It is poles apart. One is for relative sphere another is to know the absolute. I think there is a mix-up.

Bhagawan or Tantras - do not talk about Swarga Prapti, if they taught that then they would definetly address the jathi's mentioned in Vedas.

Please consider the above points...

Regards

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I only said they are considered to be an expansion and interpretation of the Karma Khanda portion of the Vedas.

This has been the subject matter for discussion for a long time now with no conclusions likely to be reached. All I know is that none of the Tantrik authors have said a single word against the Vedas and many of them were Brahmin Vaidic scholars of repute.

The philosophy of the Tantras are also again a point in which there is no uniformity of opinion. According to some all Tantras are Sankhya. Then some claim they are Purva Mimamsa. Then they argue based on different texts.

But there is only thing the actual Tantriks know. The way shown is by the Guru and Sampradhaya. The question of Philosophy does not arise at all.

But the prayers are about Swarga and Mukthi. Tantriks believe only in Saguna Brahman. Tantrik rituals are based on God with attributes. But then there is a close association between Tantra and Yoga.

Again I will not be surprised if there are other opinions. I have given trying to sort this out because Tantra is basically practice and not theory.

 

[malgova.mango]

Tantriks are Upasana Marga mentioned in Upanishads - Saguna Brahma Upasana is chief feature of Tantras. Tattvam is hidden here not as manifest as in Bhasyams. Vedanta or Upanishads is a vehicle for Moksha - Moksha again is a subtle most Tattva. Tattva is the goal, be it Tantrick or Bhasyam. In Tantrick the danger is getting side-tracked by Siddhis.

The Mahayana of Buddhists do have tantras. Tibetian Buddhism is Vajryana Buddhism or Tantric Buddhism (Thalai sutthi Muuka thodra velai...Mooka thodumaanngarthum doubt)

Karma Kanda deals with various Yagnyas and Adhikaris.

What I want to point is the teachers for Upanishads - do not concern about karma kanda. For them Karma means another seed to remain in Samsara - so even Swarga Prapti is just dust for them. Bhagwan Ramakrishna is not concerned about Jati, it is understandable as he teaches Vedanta.

But Vedas, provide intelligence for all walks of people.
Regards

 

[malgova.mango]

Upasana's or Tantrick aim is to make the practioner to understand Nirguna Brahmam.

So says the Bhasyam of BP.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

In Tantra the path is laid down by the Guru according to the aptitude and level of the Sishya. Sri Ramakrishna's path emphasizes both Bhakthi Marga as well as Vedanta. He said repeatedly that "Kali is Brahman." The books on Vedanta by the original disciples always includes the concept of "Ishta Devata." Saguna Brahman for most people. Nirguna brahman for some depending on your aptitude and other qualities.

Even Bhaskara Raya never wrote about the reconciliation of Sri Vidya with Sankara's views of Nirguna Brahman. All the Smartas have this problem. That is why I said I will not even think of attempting it.

 

[happyhindu]

a few inputs from what i have come across:

1) Tantra belives in no jati system. karma is by birth or inheritance, and it is beleived no matter where the birth is, a man will come seeking his true vocation or occupation group on his own (naadi or thedi varuva..).

2) Saguna Brahma Upasana is not the chief feature of Tantras. Neither is Tattvam "hidden and not as manifest as in Bhasyams".

Tantra believes in both nirguna and saguna brahman. The application and context of both concepts differ, the end result is the same. Its about understanding one's own ego nature first; before talking abt saguna and nirguna brahman in that context.

I request any true seeker to please read Kriya Yoga and the Jnana Sankalini Tantra - it is full of anything anyone wants to know about the tantra side of vedas. After that, to seek, one goes nowhere but into oneself. Therefore, reality as experienced might subtly differ from person to person.

3) tantra is from the vedas and is not opposed to it. Tantra upasakas believe they are following the true essence of the vedas.

4) The context of the word 'tattva' being used to refer to 'truth' here varies from school to school. Yogatatva Upanishad is of great help in understanding this tatva.

5) Tantra is the means for moksha. Tantra upasakas believe in vedanta. The mimasaka side of it is restricted to those seeking siddhis, it is not the means or the end for those seeking moksha - there is a basic difference b/w both these groups. Therefore, a true seeker is aware of what he or she wants and is clear right from the beginning (in the pursuit of moksha) and therefore there is no danger in getting side-tracked by Siddhis. In other words, the mimasaka side is not followed by moksha seekers.

I request Sri N-ji to list the titles of the tantra texts of vedas for better clarification on tantra as regards its status vis-a-vis the vedas. By having a look at the titles, i hope it might be clear to our friend mm-ji as well as benefit others, on what exactly is tantra.

 

[happyhindu]

yogatattva upanishad in english: http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/yogatattva.htm

in sanskrit:
http://sanskritdocuments.org/all_sa/yogatatva_sa.html

 

[il_guy]

Sri Nacchi,

Very good information. No real comments. I know it's probably surprising, me being a Western Hindu. But, I did vote five stars. :first:

Regards,

Justin

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Thank you all for the responses. HH and MM know about the Tantras. But who can really define what Tantra is. The same problem with Hinduism in general. We always fall back on the old story of the five blind men trying to describe an elephant. Tantric literature date from about 600 A.D to the eighteenth century. A large number of books have been written after that in the modern age. Most of the Tantras deal mainly with the practices and do not delve into Philosophy at all.

Again the Indian Philosophical systems were developed based on Vedas. That is the Asthika schools. But then it is all a matter of interpretations. After all both Sankaracharya and Ramanujacharya based their Philosophies on the very same text.

I would only mention some of the Indian authors who are/were Tantrik adepts and so knew what they were talking about. But the approach is different.

M.P.Pundit

Kapali Sasthirigal _ Both devotes of Aurobindo.

Swami Rama and later Rajamani Tigunait. Swami Rama was earlier the Sankaracharya of Karaveera Peetam. His book Search for the Himalayan Masters is a classic. It is not a Tantra book.

A number of books based on extensive reaerch have come out in the recent past. But for a non adept these may be heavy reading to say the least.

Auspicious Wisdom by Douglas Renfrew Brooks.- An excellent book on Sri Vidya. Then heavy reading.

About Tantra and Vedas[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Tripura Rahasya, one of the central texts of Shakta Tantra, says "This text has been created by summarising the teachings of the Vedas, Puranas and other scriptures."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Swami Nikhilananda wrote about not only of the close affinity with the Vedas, but also that the development of Tantric thought shows the influence of the Upanishads, the Puranas, and Yoga[/FONT].

http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituality/hindu/realtantra.htm

This is a huge topic and would result in a huge number of posts. May be sometime later we could have a thread devoted to Tantras.

 

[malgova.mango]

Mdm HH!

You won't listen to me - any way....

What do you understand by Mimamsam.

 

[malgova.mango]

Nacchi!

You cannot do Upasana for Nirguna Brahman, one has to understand that's all.

Tantra has 4 pada - the last one is Gnanam, Gnanam means what Knowledge, Knowledge about what? Sarvagnathvam. If by Tantra one couldn't ascertain what is Nirguna , then the tantra upasana is incomplete for it has only 3 pada and the 4th Pada is not attained.

If one say Sarvagnathvam , then he should know all including Nirguna.

Smarta's don't have any problem. For they can accomodate both Saguna and Nirguna. How do you say they have problem? What reason you give?

I've little knowledge about BR , but I know he wrote extensive commentry on LS, but I don't understand what you meant by reconcillation and how you connect that as a problem for Smartas.. You mean if BR doesn;t address Nirguna, then there is no such thing as Nirguna is it?

Bhakti is the core from Karma - Gnana , you do a simple prayer or Puja or Homa or Yangya or Upasana or Shravana or Manana or Nidhdihayasana you need ALMIGHTY'S Grace.

Apart from that.. I asked you to consider on the Karma kanda and Gnana kanda.. Have you considered?

Regards

In Tantra the path is laid down by the Guru according to the aptitude and level of the Sishya. Sri Ramakrishna's path emphasizes both Bhakthi Marga as well as Vedanta. He said repeatedly that "Kali is Brahman." The books on Vedanta by the original disciples always includes the concept of "Ishta Devata." Saguna Brahman for most people. Nirguna brahman for some depending on your aptitude and other qualities.

Even Bhaskara Raya never wrote about the reconciliation of Sri Vidya with Sankara's views of Nirguna Brahman. All the Smartas have this problem. That is why I said I will not even think of attempting it.

 

[malgova.mango]

Again - Not all are intersted deeply in Moksha, Most of us want a better life - that's all - if it is Swarga then jolly good atleast there you can play you see.

So if some say please show me a way for better life - I don't want to complicate myself with Tantra and all. - this is what 99% people want - you got to guide them - correct or not? You cannot count on humans as always one group will try to exploit the other ... all these we are seeing now what? rich people gel together and get richer - poor suffer

So you need a better intelligence - may be if it is from GOD Himself much better - here is where VEDA's teaching on Karma Kanda is of significance. -

What now?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I am wary about such discussions. I have read books. Even went to college after retirement to learn about India and Hinduism. I have delivered lectures on particular aspects of Hinduism. In fact many of my posts are based on college and lecture notes.

But I will not enter into any discussions until and unless it directly relates to the topic. You know that is a typical and common way of avoiding questions after lectures. What I wrote about Bhaskara Raya is the opinion of research scholars.

I used to write extensively and discuss many aspects of Hinduism particularly Vedas and Tantras in some of the internet forums. Some of the posts have been copied in some web sites. I stopped doing it in 2002.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

I am wary about such discussions. I have read books. Even went to college after retirement to learn about India and Hinduism. I have delivered lectures on particular aspects of Hinduism. In fact many of my posts are based on college and lecture notes.

But I will not enter into any discussions until and unless it directly relates to the topic. You know that is a typical and common way of avoiding questions after lectures. What I wrote about Bhaskara Raya is the opinion of research scholars.

I used to write extensively and discuss many aspects of Hinduism particularly Vedas and Tantras in some of the internet forums. Some of the posts have been copied in some web sites. I stopped doing it in 2002.

Wow.... Shri Nacchi, my respect and admiration for you is growing with each passing post...!!

 

[malgova.mango]

Nacch!

Have you heard of the saying "Agala Uzhuvzthai veda, Aazha Uzhu" .?!

Regards

 

[happyhindu]

MM-ji, Just wanted to say that the 2 paras below is completely wrong. Nirguna brahman cannot be realized without upasana nor is tantra without gnanam. Apart from that, forgive me, i too am not interested in this discussion anymore - my guru says an ounce of practice is equal to a ton of theory. To me you come across as someone bound by theory. And i do not beleive in theory alone. Therefore, this discussion will not go anywhere. And am therefore not interested in pursuing it.

Regards.

You cannot do Upasana for Nirguna Brahman, one has to understand that's all.

Tantra has 4 pada - the last one is Gnanam, Gnanam means what Knowledge, Knowledge about what? Sarvagnathvam. If by Tantra one couldn't ascertain what is Nirguna , then the tantra upasana is incomplete for it has only 3 pada and the 4th Pada is not attained.