Govt taking over Nanganallur Anjaneyar temple; sad news

[sangom]

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Shri Vaagmi,

You have spent a lot of time refuting what Shri Nara & myself wrote. A good effort to give a post-mortem face lift to brahmins. One fact is evident - your ideas about brahmadeyams is meagre or next to nil.

I do not have the physical stamina to refer back to my records, type out long messages etc., and try to educate you about the historical backgrounds of temples, brahmadeyams etc. If possible you may try to google these topics and see for yourself.

 

[Vaagmi]

Mr. Sangom,

You said this:

You have spent a lot of time refuting what Shri Nara & myself wrote. A good effort to give a post-mortem face lift to brahmins. One fact is evident - your ideas about brahmadeyams is meagre or next to nil. I do not have the physical stamina to refer back to my records, type out long messages etc., and try to educate you about the historical backgrounds of temples, brahmadeyams etc. If possible you may try to google these topics and see for yourself.​

Please do not worry about Mr. Nara. He will take care of himself. Yes, a post-mortem face lift in the eyes of renegades is just fighting back in the eyes of friends. When Antonys turn eloquent and try to deliver long lectures split into instalments standing before the body of Julius Caesar, there is no wonder there are those in the crowd who also gather courage to tell hard hitting truth at the face. I am sorry if I have drained your physical stamina. Any way that gave you the chance to get a "like", the tonic( or are you going to trivialize it by calling it a jalra's jingle?) and I am sure you will be back with enough stamina. If you do not want to educate me I go with what I think is the correct position. I stand by what I said about brahmadeyams. I do not google for such obvious facts which I know. I do not care. Thank you.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Nara,

Therefore, of these 106 (2 are imaginary ones) the ones south of Vindyas were all built by one these or even earlier dynasties. Some of them were probably Jaina or Buddhist temples were converted to SV temples through conquest.

Some of the temples were indeed built by the devotees in the village itself. These were out of the inherited properties of individuals. In my village my great grand father donated lands to the Krishna temple there and he was not a king. My grandmother donated ornaments to the deity and she was not a princess either. These lands are today feeding the employees of the HR &CE department clerks and babus today and the ornaments are missing and not traceable. The deity and the temple have been neglected. There is not even one time pooja per day.

You are conflating public property such as temples with private property of kings and nawabs. The temples built centuries ago belong to the people of Tamil Nadu. They are not private properties of any king or navab. The newly built temples under public trust with 80G tax status are answerable to the government agencies. Your objections are invalid as HR & CE are not taking over temples built by private individuals in their own private land using their own private funds, and, HR & CE is not taking any temple over without due process of law adjudicated by judicial authority.

The temples are answerable to the IT Department. But a fine is usually imposed when there is any violations. The temple was given an exemption from tax and the trust claimed the exemption for itself. So technically there was an error. But is take over of the temple a solution? When the trust and the temple are closely connected with each other and when the trust engages in no other profit making business where was the need to take over the temple? In Tamilnadu the HR&CE Dept recklessly takes over temples. You may build a temple with your own money on land that belongs to you and yet the Board will take over the temple if you receive donations from devotees. The due process is such that with due process in this country you can rob people of anything.

 

[Nara]

Mr. Sangom,
Please do not worry about Mr. Nara. He will take care of himself.

Dear Vaagmi, please, against your formidable skills and my puny abilities, I need all the help I can get to "take care" of myself, and any help from Shri Sangom is always welcome.

.... These lands are today feeding the employees of the HR &CE department clerks and babus today and the ornaments are missing and not traceable. The deity and the temple have been neglected. There is not even one time pooja per day..

Well, corruption is a national problem, why should temples alone be immune.

I like temples, the old ones, I love the art, I love the surrounding. I even like the utsavams, they bring out the culture like no other time. But the problem is, temple is also a den of superstitions, a place that encourages superstitious ideas. It is also a place to express one's vanity in numerous ways.

Taken in total it is all a wash. HR & CE taking over is not going to change anything significant, everything will go on as always, except there will be new people sitting in the administrative offices and yapping away. Forget about who is in those offices, go to the temple and have a good time.

Thank you ...

 

[sangom]

Dear Vaagmi, please, against your formidable skills and my puny abilities, I need all the help I can get to "take care" of myself, and any help from Shri Sangom is always welcome.

Well, corruption is a national problem, why should temples alone be immune.

I like temples, the old ones, I love the art, I love the surrounding. I even like the utsavams, they bring out the culture like no other time. But the problem is, temple is also a den of superstitions, a place that encourages superstitious ideas. It is also a place to express one's vanity in numerous ways.

Taken in total it is all a wash. HR & CE taking over is not going to change anything significant, everything will go on as always, except there will be new people sitting in the administrative offices and yapping away. Forget about who is in those offices, go to the temple and have a good time.

Thank you ...

Dear Shri Nara,

While I have not gone to any temple for some years now, don't you think that a very honest Trust managing a successful temple, successfully, should have been allowed to function without hindrance? What if the incomes of the temple were credited to the Trust's bank account instead of to the temple's bank account? What difference does it make in a legal sense, especially when Shri Vaagmi certifies that all the Trustees are "legal luminaries"? Will even the Supreme court be able to find any lawpoint to throw out the case of such legal luminaries?

Today my elderly cousin and his wife from Chennai, visited me. This temple topic came up somehow. They both were also lamenting that a temple which was giving ample prasaadams to eat, to a great lot of people, free, and was also conducting Carnatic Music Kutcheris free, has now gone down the drain.

May be even Anjaneya is powerless before that giant ego which Shri Vaagmi refers to !!

 

[Nara]

.... don't you think that a very honest Trust managing a successful temple, successfully, should have been allowed to function without hindrance? What if the incomes of the temple were credited to the Trust's bank account instead of to the temple's bank account? What difference does it make in a legal sense, especially when Shri Vaagmi certifies that all the Trustees are "legal luminaries"? Will even the Supreme court be able to find any lawpoint to throw out the case of such legal luminaries?

Dear Shri Sangom, if the facts are as you suggest, then why of course yes, the temple should be left alone. As I observed early on, I don't the details of this particular temple -- but I can't accept anecdotal reports from interested parties as indisputable facts. This is why there is judicial procedure which I believe HR & CE observed. What Brahmins see as going down the drain may very well be a case of cleaning the gutters out.

In any case, my last word on this topic is in post #52.

best regards ...

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Nara,

Dear Vaagmi, please, against your formidable skills and my puny abilities, I need all the help I can get to "take care" of myself, and any help from Shri Sangom is always welcome.

Oh boy! am I not happy that my skills have been called formidable. And I have to be extra careful in future because I have accidentally uncovered a mutual appreciation/help pact and when the blow comes it will be a double whammy!

Well, corruption is a national problem, why should temples alone be immune.

I was not talking about corruption here. It was the sheer inefficiency I was referring to.

I like temples, the old ones, I love the art, I love the surrounding. I even like the utsavams, they bring out the culture like no other time. But the problem is, temple is also a den of superstitions, a place that encourages superstitious ideas. It is also a place to express one's vanity in numerous ways.

I differ. Temples are not dens of superstitions. The people who manage them and the people who go there may be superstitious. It is God who sits there in the den. God does not encourage superstitions. From what people here say I understand you are an atheist, and so you can take it that the temples are dens of the God idea and not God. Even then The idea does not demand superstitions on your part unless every one accept that the idea itself is a superstition.

Taken in total it is all a wash. HR & CE taking over is not going to change anything significant, everything will go on as always, except there will be new people sitting in the administrative offices and yapping away. Forget about who is in those offices, go to the temple and have a good time.

No. Many things will change. When there is a red and black border dhoti comes to the temple, the timings will be adjusted to his "pressing" engagements. His concubines will be given red carpet welcome and a "poorna kumbam". There will be competition among the temple servants including the brahmins to go out of the way to accommodate the unethical requests of the politicians. All this because HR&CE is "people's arm" and people are represented by politicians. Slowly the devout will skip the temple. A few capable people may build another temple for the anjaneya and that too may be taken over in course of time. The drama will go on.

Thank you ...

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

While I have not gone to any temple for some years now, don't you think that a very honest Trust managing a successful temple, successfully, should have been allowed to function without hindrance? What if the incomes of the temple were credited to the Trust's bank account instead of to the temple's bank account? What difference does it make in a legal sense, especially when Shri Vaagmi certifies that all the Trustees are "legal luminaries"? Will even the Supreme court be able to find any lawpoint to throw out the case of such legal luminaries?
Today my elderly cousin and his wife from Chennai, visited me. This temple topic came up somehow. They both were also lamenting that a temple which was giving ample prasaadams to eat, to a great lot of people, free, and was also conducting Carnatic Music Kutcheris free, has now gone down the drain.
May be even Anjaneya is powerless before that giant ego which Shri Vaagmi refers to !!

I did not certify anything. I just said there are legal luminaries in the trust board managing the temple. The legal luminaries may choose to remain silent if the people involved in the shadow boxing are politically powerful. That is the reality.

 

[Nara]

Vaagmi, here is a temple you can be sure is beyond the tentacles of HR & CDE:

Behind China?s Hindu temples, a forgotten history - The Hindu

 

[prasad1]

So Temples are the place where "GOD" resides:

It is God who sits there in the den. God does not encourage superstitions.

So the trustees were managing God, and should have been left alone. Do you see the fallacy of your argument?
I believe in God being all pervading, and temple has a different significance to me. If God resides in Temple, what are we hunting in the world for God?

Borrowing from Sangomji

जैसे तिल में तॆल है, ज्यों चक‍मक में आग ।
तेरा सायी तुझ में है, तू जाग सकै तो जाग ॥
—संत कबीर

Temple means various things to various people, but Temple is not necessary for God realization. There are many Sadhus sitting in Himalayan caves who never visit a Temple, and are more spiritual than many of us.

Temples are built by humans for humans, and the ego satisfaction of humans. If there is mismanagement of temple funds by the present administrators and Government can prove in court of Law, they have every right to take it over.
Having said that, I do not believe that Government should interfere with any religion, unless it is unlawful activity.

 

[Vaagmi]

So Temples are the place where "GOD" resides:
So the trustees were managing God, and should have been left alone. Do you see the fallacy of your argument?
I believe in God being all pervading, and temple has a different significance to me. If God resides in Temple, what are we hunting in the world for God?
Temple means various things to various people, but Temple is not necessary for God realization. There are many Sadhus sitting in Himalayan caves who never visit a Temple, and are more spiritual than many of us.

Dear Mr.Prasad,

In reply I want you to reflect on the highlighted sentence from your post. I do not want to elaborate.

Temples are built by humans for humans, and the ego satisfaction of humans. .

Perhaps you are talking about the temple built for Khushbhu:happy:

 

[jaichand]

Dear All,

Only agenda of the govt whether it is DMK or AIADMk govt, HR&CE dept is highly corrput and they want to Loot the Temple money.
Why can't Govt create Chirisian Religious Endownment Board or Muslim Religious Endownment Board. why target only Hindu temples.
Look they do not care for agama Vidhi to be followed. HR&CE people dictate Their own terms and conditions. What right Govt has to interfere with us. It is Wrong Judgement by the Chennai High Court. THey must go to Supreme Court for appeal. Does High COurt Judges have guts to give this Verdict if Govt takes over(no govt will) Moseque or Chruch ?.

if we are not united then , There will be a day eerything will be Lost. Look TIrumala Funds are looted and diverted. Who cares?.Look at the Unity with other Religions. where we heading?. God Save our Country. Only gos have save their temples.

We are not bothered about any thing. We have become selfish. if thief come next door we keep quiet, because he has not come to our House. this is the Attitude of Hindu's especially Brahmins. Brhamins had lost Guts.

Shame on we Hindus , we do not have guts and unity to Fight .



.[/QUOTE]

 

[கால பைரவன்]

We are not bothered about any thing. We have become selfish. if thief come next door we keep quiet, because he has not come to our House. this is the Attitude of Hindu's especially Brahmins. Brhamins had lost Guts.
Shame on we Hindus , we do not have guts and unity to Fight .

Dear Jaichand,
I hope you know that a hindu can be an atheist or agnostic, need not believe in God, need not be a temple goer etc unlike the other two religions that you have quoted. Therefore, not all hindus may have interest in saving this temple from being appropriated by the government. Besides, the thread starter had hinted that brahmins may have been part of the management and that is reason enough for some to oppose, even though outwardly they may claim caste is not important to them. Don't fret based on reactions in this forum. If you stay long enough you will get used to it