Govt taking over Nanganallur Anjaneyar temple; sad news

[rkpatham]

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I have read this news in The Hindu ( Govt. takes over Anjaneya temple in Nanganallur - The Hindu) . This is very sad; The temple was maintained very well and the poojas and other rituals are happening there with devoted involvement of kurukkals and bhattacharyas. The temple trust also has been paying them good salary. Even the bhakthas were treated kindly and also Annadhanams and prasadams were distributed every day. We dont know what will happen to this temple.


On a different notem I also want to share my views on maintenance of various temples in Tamil Nadu compared to Karnataka. In karnataka most temples are maintained very neat and clean and all the poojas are done as per " Vaitheega sampradhayam" rather than Agamam. Every god including Dwarabalagas are maintained very neat and clean with very noce;yu decorated attire. Contrary to this I found some famous temples are looking very ugly in Tamil Nadu. I am talking about the following temples: Kumbakonam Sri Kumbeshwaran temple, Tirumeichur Sri Lalithambige, Tirunallar Saneeswarar temple, Mayuranatha Swamy temple at Mayiladuthurai, Tirunelveli temple, Vaitheeswaran Kovil temple, Madurai Meenatchi amman temple and there are many more....

All these temples have large commercial properties in and around temples with politicians involved in auctioning them for leasing etc. The un accounted income of these temples could be several crores, Apart from that they also have agricultural lands whose income and yiels never get accounted properly. Some of these temples are ( Karpagrahams ) in a very bad shape and shanityam and tejas goes missing . For example I have spotted Scorpions and giant sized centepede ( sadai poorans) moving around the god freely

Another important observation was none of the karnataka temples have Karpporam for Aarathi and they use Ghee lamp which does not eminate black smoke like Karpooram. In Tamil Nadu temples we use Karpoorams liberaly and the same should be banned in and around temple premises

I dont intend to offend anyone but want to share that TamilNadu temples are losing its charm and saanithyam, We must do something to restore this.

Best regards, Patham Iyer


Some time back I wrote about Manthai Sri Ayyanar temple. Kumbabhishekam pictures are attached . You can spot me in photos # 4 , 10 and 12 out of 124 wearing Panchakacham and having yellow towel

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[sangom]

Shri Patham Iyer sir,

The reasons for the government taking over this Nanganallur temple have not been given in your post. But the governments can, today, probably take over any temple on the flimsiest of reasons - even a written complaint alleging misappropriation of income/funds by the existing private management, I think.

As to your statement that "TamilNadu temples are losing its charm and saanithyam", I feel that this is a purely personal judgment or feeling; on the contrary, I have seen some non-brahmins and even north indian/other state tourists speaking highly of some temples which appeared to me to be very badly managed.

Looking back, we brahmins lost all chance in regard to temple affairs when the temple entry was accepted and again, when the HR&CE legislation were passed at the state level. I think the state govts. do not exercise such sweeping powers in respect of either Christian Churches or Muslim waqfs. So, the point is this, are we - brahmins and/or hindus in general - prepared to be as united and militant to oppose the governmental intervention in our religious matters? Are we so sincere in this matter that we are ready to even sacrifice our lives (like the islamic jihadis)? Even if brahmins in TN are so prepared, will the rest of the Hindu population support us in such a task?

I personally feel that the temple-going practice or culture became fashionable among brahmins when they (the Brahmins) decided to forsake their ancient vedic practices, like learning of vedas and sanskrit, scrupulously doing their Nithyahnikam, living humble and mostly poverty-laden lives in agraharam clusters etc., and, lured by lucre, status and a (false) concept of emancipation (பரிஷ்காரம்), we brahmins changed course and took to English education, government jobs and the status it conferred on us and our families, more earnings and savings, and, a slow but definite tendency to ape the Britisher - by removing pigtails, cropping hair, wearing coat over panchakaccham, pocket watches, eating wheat rava as a fashion, and so on.
It is impossible to reverse this trend now. Hence, what we can do is to stop visiting temples, do whatever prayer/s we want to do, inside our houses/flats/hutments and also resolve that we brahmins will not visit any temple whatsoever, any takers?

 

[auh]

I shared this news with a colleague who lives in Chennai and apparently, the temple rakes in money.

In the link given in the OP, it says

However, there were complaints of certain irregularities in the handling of money that was received from the public.

The officials said that receipts for money received from devotees were issued in the name of the trust instead of the temple itself. As there were issues regarding accountability, the department issued notices to the trust asking why the exemptions should not be withdrawn.

As to the concern of the OP regarding this:

All these temples have large commercial properties in and around temples with politicians involved in auctioning them for leasing etc. The un accounted income of these temples could be several crores, Apart from that they also have agricultural lands whose income and yiels never get accounted properly. Some of these temples are ( Karpagrahams ) in a very bad shape and shanityam and tejas goes missing . For example I have spotted Scorpions and giant sized centepede ( sadai poorans) moving around the god freely

But whether HR & CE accountability and disbursement of funds can be questioned, is a different matter. Perhaps RTI may be a better way?

 

[rkpatham]

Dear Sir
I agree with you to some extend. My grandfather never opted to go for a job. He was satisfied with his meagre agri income. Most of our lands were leased ( Kutthagai) and the kudiyanavan stop giving paddy on some pretext or other stating - no good rain and magasool is bad etc. My dad worked in army and he is miles away from Nithyahnikam etc. When he retired he moved the family to the nearby town . The main reason was no proper bus facilitiies and higher education schools after Class VIII, I dont blame them but they were trying to create an atmosphere where next generation children can be successful. We lost the village house for meagre Rs 25000 in 1980s . Even today the wood alone in that house could value over 25 Lakhs. But the village remains the same with the exception of hardly any brahmin houses in all the 4 streets of the agraharam. Very sad news.

I dont believe Nanganallur Anjaneya swamy temple trust would have doing something wrong or misappropriate funds. I know few of the Trustees and they are all god fearing brahmins. At the outset the temple was doing good and there were no deficit of resources and also it was one of the best maintained temple compared to all the Raja Raja Cholan and Pandian built temples.

North- Indians like temples which does not have huge focus lamps or marble stones etc . What I am requesting or looking forward is neat maintainance of Karpagraham. Nice dressing up to Swamy with utmost sincereity, no foul smell when you cross abhisheka theertha outlet in the parikrama or prahaarams. No blackening or polluted image of sanctum sanctorium. I am not getting this whenever I visit Kumbasheswaran temple ( I belong to Kumbakonam) or Tirunallar Saneeswaran temple or Tirukadaiyur temples or Tirunelveli temples. You may ask how many times I visit those temples- Once a year would be my answer.

If some one has to see to how Sanctum Sanctorium has to be maintained - my recommended sample at Bangalore is Sri Rahiguda varadha Anjaneya swami temple in JP Nagar / BTM area

I am sorry that I do not want to comment on your last but previous para. I like your comments.

Regards

 

[tbs]

hi
basically the money is the reason....where a lot of funds/money coming ..then govt comes to take over...like chidambaram

sri nataraja swamy temple...there are thousands of temples in tamil nadu without money for their daily puja/deepam.....

govt is not interseted in thses temples...becoz there is no income to loot the temple....just a thought...

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

i tend to agree with you. another source of privilige and income for the trustees is being taken away. nobody has said 'why' and answered your query as to the reason of the take over.

there must have been enough complaints to bring this koil to the attention of the HRCE. i dont know the details, but i think, it would be wrong to indulge in unfair innuendos re anti brahminism. i would tend to think, the current government of JJ is brahmin neutral. someone must have plundered a big amount without dividing up the appropriate shares to the other trustees my guess, completely unwarranted,

to repeat, in the same tone as tbs'..ie the loot was not divided fairly eh!!

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

i think we are the only religion in the world, where we divide and destroy ourselves. once again, the caste comes into picture, and you yourself has challenged the brahmins, to avoid temples, in order, to avoid the nastiness and politics of the temples.

yet on the other hand, we have tambrams here moaning the usurpation of supposedly well run temples, by the HRCE.

overall so nasty, all these environments..i wonder, where any if ever, religiosity existed.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

sangom,

i tend to agree with you. another source of privilige and income for the trustees is being taken away. nobody has said 'why' and answered your query as to the reason of the take over.

there must have been enough complaints to bring this koil to the attention of the HRCE. i dont know the details, but i think, it would be wrong to indulge in unfair innuendos re anti brahminism. i would tend to think, the current government of JJ is brahmin neutral. someone must have plundered a big amount without dividing up the appropriate shares to the other trustees my guess, completely unwarranted,

to repeat, in the same tone as tbs'..ie the loot was not divided fairly eh!!

This can happen only in India. The govt wants to takeover a temple. Therefore there must be something wrong with the current management. Is it? One may agree to this, if the governments we get are clean. We get the most corrupt govt and yet there are people who hold such opinions.
According to kunjuppu, it is wrong to indulge in innuendos regarding anti-brahminism but it is okay to indulge in innuendos regarding the current temple management without knowing any details! I am sorry, the post reeks of prejudice.

 

[sarang]

If malpractices or financial irregularities are cited as the reason for takeover, there are easier and alternate solutions are available; a single complaint to the police can start an investigation to nail and punish the guilty. If temple administration can be taken over for frivolous complaints, the same method can be extended to thousands of churches, waqf boards, charity trusts, NGOs and the lot.

It is the money generated and the property owned that is the lure. Of course, the easiest temples to annexe are those managed by brahmins. Govt. will not do the same for non brahmin managed temples which have more earning, are richer and friendly to the dravidian parties.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

This is what was written in post # 6

another source of privilige and income for the trustees is being taken away......someone must have plundered a big amount without dividing up the appropriate shares to the other trustees my guess

If this is not prejudice what is? Does the member know any info about the temple management?

you are destroyer of hinduism with your narrow prejudice. may you and your people of your think, thank yourself for the destruction of tamil hinduism and you will be only happy like what happened in the north...a few brahmins in the subservience of rulers of foreign faiths. that is your ultimate victory for your definition of hinduism.shame on you sir..you and zebra and other animals... please go and preside over this glory of destruction...

jayachandra (prithviraj chauhan) true heirs..that is what you are...

Then, the usual blah blah post, shame on you, animal etc in post #9. (this post has been since deleted. It was written by Kunjuppu) And that was edited post. Who knows what was written originally. What was the need to bring in other members also, I do not know. Intolerant bigot this guy is....

 

[kunjuppu]

give up on self serving sh&**(ds

 

[Nara]

.....I dont believe Nanganallur Anjaneya swamy temple trust would have doing something wrong or misappropriate funds. I know few of the Trustees and they are all god fearing brahmins. At the outset the temple was doing good and there were no deficit of resources and also it was one of the best maintained temple compared to all the Raja Raja Cholan and Pandian built temples.

I call upon my dear brothers for whom I am nothing short of their bete noire, I mean sarang, KB, and to a lot lesser extent Narayan, to think about the highlighted phrase in the above passage. Why is the caste identity of these trustees relevant? This is a case of the latent caste centric bigotry waiting just under the skin to come bursting out I mentioned in the other thread. In that case it was my wife's sister-in-law, here it is Shri rkpatham. Please note, I am not saying Shri rkpatham is a bad person any more than my wife's sister-in-law, but the bigotry is out in the open in both cases and just can't be denied, and if truth be told, you will see this kind of bigotry all too often in Brahmin families.

....Looking back, we brahmins lost all chance in regard to temple affairs when the temple entry was accepted and again, when the HR&CE legislation were passed at the state level.

[snip]

It is impossible to reverse this trend now. Hence, what we can do is to stop visiting temples, do whatever prayer/s we want to do, inside our houses/flats/hutments and also resolve that we brahmins will not visit any temple whatsoever, any takers?

(I have quoted only select portions of Shri Sangom's post, the portion I wish to comment on, if anybody feels the context is missing I request readers to go to his original post.)

It is possible that I have completely missed Shri Sangom's point, in which case I request Shri Sangom to (1) pardon me for misunderstanding him and (2) please clarify why I am wrong.

It seems Shri Sangom is saying (1) Brahmins lost control of temples when the had to accept "temple entry" by Dalits and (2) the response to this "sad" state is for Brahmins to completely abandon the temple form of worship.

I hope I am wrong, and I really hope Shri Sangom will say I am wrong.

Finally, I would like to stay clear of the particular temple being discussed as I don't know what the facts are. However, I would like to make a general comment. Old temples built by the Cholas, Cheras, Pandiyas, Pallavas, etc., belong to the people of Tamil Nadu, not to Brahmins, god fearing or not. Whatever may be one's view of HR & CE, they are the arm of the people empowered to protect these temples and make sure they serve the people in general and not the few Brahmins who have enjoyed special privilege.

best regards, Dileepan

 

[V.Balasubramani]

(I have quoted only select portions of Shri Sangom's post, the portion I wish to comment on, if anybody feels the context is missing I request readers to go to his original post.)

It is possible that I have completely missed Shri Sangom's point, in which case I request Shri Sangom to (1) pardon me for misunderstanding him and (2) please clarify why I am wrong.

It seems Shri Sangom is saying (1) Brahmins lost control of temples when the had to accept "temple entry" by Dalits and (2) the response to this "sad" state is for Brahmins to completely abandon the temple form of worship.


best regards, Dileepan

Sir,

Pranams,

Pray Sri Sangom Ji comes out with a convincing reply and thus justify his above two points.

God is great, really great!!


With regards

 

[கால பைரவன்]

give up on self serving sh&**(ds

Once again, intolerant bigotry is at display.
Some members, because they live in la-la land and visit few tamil blogs, think they know everything and are enlightened and come here to educate the rest. Pathetic.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I call upon my dear brothers for whom I am nothing short of their bete noire, I mean sarang, KB, and to a lot lesser extent Narayan, to think about the highlighted phrase in the above passage. Why is the caste identity of these trustees relevant? This is a case of the latent caste centric bigotry waiting just under the skin to come bursting out I mentioned in the other thread.

I am sorry. I do not see where the bigotry is. What he wrote perhaps is a matter of fact. That brahmins, some of whom he knows, were the trustees. They could be god-fearing. They could be honest. Is that difficult for you to fathom that there could be honest god-fearing brahmins?
Yes, the caste identity is not relevant. But reading the post does not give any impression that only brahmins are god-fearing and only brahmins are honest. That post does not make any such claim. If it made such claim, then your point will be valid.

and if truth be told, you will see this kind of bigotry all too often in Brahmin families.

That is not true. It is just your prejudice showing its ugly face.

 

[tbs]

hi
i like to say...sometimes ONLY BRAHMIN managed temples always attack....i can show the recent story of CHURCH OF SOUTH

INDIA in tamil nadu......4.7 ?????? ???? ??????? ????????????, ????? ????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ??????????? ?????????????? ?????? - Dinamani - Tamil Daily News

this is story of christian church in tamil nadu.....

 

[sarang]

Administration of the church is not usurped by the government. There are hundreds of such cases, but select hindu temples go under the hammer.

hi
i like to say...sometimes ONLY BRAHMIN managed temples always attack....i can show the recent story of CHURCH OF SOUTH

INDIA in tamil nadu......4.7 ?????? ???? ??????? ????????????, ????? ????? ?????????????? ?????????????? ??????????? ?????????????? ?????? - Dinamani - Tamil Daily News

this is story of christian church in tamil nadu.....

 

[sarang]

Why should Government administer Hindu Temples?

An earlier post by suba42 will help some understand this tricky issue.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11363-save-our-temples.html

Previous karnataka govt headed by sri ediyurappa promised to relinquish government control over 25000 temples and extend the same to all temples in karnataka. In andhra too there is a strong ground movement to free the temples from the grip of 'secular but patently biased and anti hindu' government.

The post independent governments went for nationalization of industry, banks and service organizations to control finance and restrict monopoly. The tune is different now, even though the private sector too has many dark elements. There is no talk of taking over corrupt industries - satyam for example. Let us hope enlightened politicians form the next government will gradually relinquish government control over temples and mutts.

 

[auh]

It is just my observation based on my interaction with the outside world - Majority of god fearing brahmins have a low propensity to act unscrupulously than the god fearing non-brahmins.

I limit this to TN.

 

[sangom]

(I have quoted only select portions of Shri Sangom's post, the portion I wish to comment on, if anybody feels the context is missing I request readers to go to his original post.)

It is possible that I have completely missed Shri Sangom's point, in which case I request Shri Sangom to (1) pardon me for misunderstanding him and (2) please clarify why I am wrong.

It seems Shri Sangom is saying (1) Brahmins lost control of temples when the had to accept "temple entry" by Dalits and (2) the response to this "sad" state is for Brahmins to completely abandon the temple form of worship.

I hope I am wrong, and I really hope Shri Sangom will say I am wrong.

Finally, I would like to stay clear of the particular temple being discussed as I don't know what the facts are. However, I would like to make a general comment. Old temples built by the Cholas, Cheras, Pandiyas, Pallavas, etc., belong to the people of Tamil Nadu, not to Brahmins, god fearing or not. Whatever may be one's view of HR & CE, they are the arm of the people empowered to protect these temples and make sure they serve the people in general and not the few Brahmins who have enjoyed special privilege.

best regards, Dileepan

Dear Shri Dileepan,

I have also to state that —

1. I have quoted only select portions of your post, the portion I wish to comment on, if anybody feels the context is missing I request readers to go to his original post.

2. It is possible that I have completely missed your point, in which case I request you to (1) pardon me for misunderstanding him and (2) please clarify why I am wrong.


My belief is that many of the grand temples in T.Nadu were initially, part of "Brahmadeyams". The temple/s was/were the nucleus/nucleii around which land was granted as "daanam" to specified numbers of brahmins and or their families included, to live, and, a large tract of culturable waste lands was generally assigned as part of such "Brahmadeyam". Ignoring all the legalities and formalities attached to such Brahmadeyams, the essential idea of the kings/emperors, seems to have been to make the brahmins as the vanguard to enthuse the lower classes to take up cultivation of such lands, which must have been there in abundance in those days of low or very low population density, high death rates and lesser longevity as compared to the present times.

The brahmins could get the lower castes to do this job because, for a wide variety of reasons, the entire population looked upon the brahmins (with their sacred threads on the left shoulder, sacred ash, their ability to recite mantras and claim of powers to intercede with supernatural entities like deities, etc.) as some kind of superhumans.

These temples were for use of the brahmins only, if my knowledge of TN history is correct, though, in the course of history and due to the fact that saivism and the Pandaarams were in control of many temples of TN, some sections of the upper castes like Saiva Pillais were also given access to these Brahmadeya temples too. (BTW, even in the saivism temples, I don't think lower castes were freely allowed entry till the temple entry for all came into vogue. Nandanar is a reminder.)

These are the reasons for my making the statement that "Brahmins lost control of temples when they had to accept "temple entry". Please note carefully that I did not use the word "Dalit" anywhere in my post; its inclusion is your own mind's work.

When temples could be accessed by all sections of hindus, naturally, the number of visitors or devotees increased and since temples cannot be "shut down" for maintenance, that aspect suffered. Secondly, most temples have many erotic sculptures and the new devotee classes did not often take kindly to such things in a place of worship of god and such erotic items were disfigured, broken, destroyed, etc. If the brahmins and the high class NBs who controlled the saivite-owned temples, had put up a very militant opposition to the Government allowing entry to all and also subsequently taking over the entire management & control of temples, I think the temples also would have been as free from government interference as churches and mosques now are.


Since history has had its march past all these developments, and since the brahmin Nithyaahnikam does not anywhere lay down 'visit to temple', I suggested that brahmins should give up this unnecessary item from their daily routine and make their prayers, if any, in their own homes.

The above is the gist of what I wanted to convey. I would like to know if there are any mistakes in this.

 

[zebra16]

This is what was written in post # 6 If this is not prejudice what is? Does the member know any info about the temple management? Then, the usual blah blah post, shame on you, animal etc in post #9. (this post has been since deleted. It was written by Kunjuppu) And that was edited post. Who knows what was written originally. What was the need to bring in other members also, I do not know. Intolerant bigot this guy is....

Thank you KB for capturing at least some of the choice words of the sahasranamam composed by this maha paNdAram NRI. A few posts ago he was preaching about the sins and that sins do not get washed by the deletion or edition of the posts.

As regards animals etc. I do not know about what they do in Canada. At least in India when the stray animals leave their refuse and stench and odor in the area of residents, the Municipality steps in to clear the stench and to drive the animal away. One or the other has to assume the responsibility of the municipality in this forum too.

 

[prasad1]

If a Temple was private, and in need of funds Government dies not take it over, but when it is rich government takes it over, what do I infer?

Obviously money was the motivation.

If the temple was not taken care by the trustees, and government steps in, I think it is a good thing.
I can not compare this with the treatment of other religious bodies as Government does have any authority.

Why can we not keep it simple stupid? Instead of fighting among ourselves, can we come to some logical conclusions?

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sangom,

govt-takes-over-anjaneya-temple-in-nanganallur

this is what is in the hindu, which gave more coverage, than any other english paper that i could see. to sum up..as per the hindu


The officials said that receipts for money received from devotees were issued in the name of the trust instead of the temple itself. As there were issues regarding accountability, the department issued notices to the trust asking why the exemptions should not be withdrawn.

The reply submitted by the trust was not convincing, said officials and hence the decision to take over the temple. In a couple of days, the takeover would be complete, the officials added.

 

[prasad1]

HC upheld HR & CE dept.’s withdrawal of exemption; devotees dismayed


A day after the Madras High Court upheld an order of the Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments department, withdrawing exemptions to the Viswaroopa Adhivyadhihara Sri Bhaktha Anjaneyaswami Temple in Nanganallur, the temple was formally taken over by the government.

I can understand that politicians can not be trusted, do we second guess the HC too?

If there is no honest person is there, then how does it matter who's dishonest person takes over the Temple?

 

[sarang]

Let the government return the administrative control to the community, trusts, mutts which originally managed the temple; let the temples be run like an industry with transparent accounting, auditing and taxation laws. I think, since 1985, the govt has dispensed with auditing of temple income/expenditure and has passed a law to facilitate this.

Primary duty of the government is to govern, enforce its laws and not appropriate institutions.