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God...Why?

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Shrimati. Renuka,

Dear NaraJi,

You know i actually kind of doubt this theory of evolution most of the times.
If you call it the Karmic evolutionary cycle then it makes a lot more sense.

You know we have still not found the missing link.
I dont see any Humans evolving into other beings.
Why has this evolution process come to a standstill.

Humans these days are more multitask than before but we still have only 2 hands.
We travel more these days but we still have only 2 feet.
We should be having bigger hands becos many indulge is accepting bribes--but hand size is still the same.

weird isnt it.

I am with you on this. I have argued in different threads that based on pure logic and not on scientific evidence (considering the age of the earth itself), the age of mankind is just too short. Means cataclysms could have wiped out previous civilizations which could have been much more advanced than us. Paramhamsa Yogananda in his autobiography says that Western science has still not taken into account the advancement civilizations achieved in places like Sumatra, Egypt, Atlantis and our own home, India. For example, while modern cranes are still struggling to lift concrete blocks few tonnes and more, no one is able to say how the Egyptian pyramids were built where some of the blocks weigh as much as a 1000 tonnes. Same holds true for the Big Temple in Tanjore or Angor Wat in Vietnam. Till a week back everyone was believing that the pyramids were built by slave workers but now they have unearthed a tomb for these workers right next to the kings so the new theory is these workers were not really slaves. If a cataclysm wiped out the dinosaurs, the possibility of a advanced human species being wiped out (save a few remnants) is also possible. Which means the theory of evolution itself becomes a ?

As new discoveries are being made, we are sitting in a mode of a perpetual "fingers crossed" so it is wise to not reach conclusions as yet.
 
I am with you on this. I have argued in different threads that based on pure logic and not on scientific evidence (considering the age of the earth itself), the age of mankind is just too short. Means cataclysms could have wiped out previous civilizations which could have been much more advanced than us. Paramhamsa Yogananda in his autobiography says that Western science has still not taken into account the advancement civilizations achieved in places like Sumatra, Egypt, Atlantis and our own home, India. For example, while modern cranes are still struggling to lift concrete blocks few tonnes and more, no one is able to say how the Egyptian pyramids were built where some of the blocks weigh as much as a 1000 tonnes. Same holds true for the Big Temple in Tanjore or Angor Wat in Vietnam. Till a week back everyone was believing that the pyramids were built by slave workers but now they have unearthed a tomb for these workers right next to the kings so the new theory is these workers were not really slaves. If a cataclysm wiped out the dinosaurs, the possibility of a advanced human species being wiped out (save a few remnants) is also possible. Which means the theory of evolution itself becomes a ?

As new discoveries are being made, we are sitting in a mode of a perpetual "fingers crossed" so it is wise to not reach conclusions as yet.

Anand,

Sometimes i wonder what you mean by "pure logic" in your own definition...

No one said hominids did not exist before.
No one said hominids were not wiped out by natural cataclysmic factors or other factors.
No one said ancient civilizations did not exist.

Sir, you do tend to mix up several (unconnected) examples in one argument. I have no idea what civilizational advancements have got to do with evolution.

Methinks you have no idea of molecular evolution at all...

Anyways, talking abt your basis of civilizational advancements..

even 'weapons' shaped out of flint stone (to hunt animals and help a man feed himself) was considered a gaint technological advancement for man at that time since it ensured survivability of the human race.

Advancements in civilizations are expected. Some methods are known, some methods are unknown - but will come to light in future, just as it did with how Angkor Wat was built.

How they built Angkor Wat is known (transport of stones) - do check out History Channel and view the documentary on it.

Even the supernatural is just the natural, which has not been explained yet. And exploring the supernatural and explaining it to us, is what some rishis and yogis did - which is why i call them scientists and explorers.

Regards.
 
With respect,

We do not know about the past civilisations that were wiped out. We are assuming about their technology. May be they were very advanced (for their own good!). We may get wiped out in 2012!:wave: The civilasation that remains will go backwards. In 2675, someone would have all kinds of assumptions about New York when they find it under water.....Human species is always evolving. To start with, we are more cluey than out distant forefathers. That itself is evolution.

Cheers!
 
Dear Smt Renu Ji,

Fully agreed about your opinion on evolution. I always wondered why the monkeys stopped their transformation into humans.

Regards
 
Shri. PVR,

Dear Smt Renu Ji,

Fully agreed about your opinion on evolution. I always wondered why the monkeys stopped their transformation into humans.

Regards

That is because we humans have started monkeying around too much so the monkeys don't see any point in evoluting into humans.:)
 
..... but I honestly feel my soliloquies to Hanuman are what preserves my sanity at times when I think I'm going mad!


Dear Amala, your response makes quite a bit of sense. If you will permit me to paraphrase, "if it gives some solace, what is wrong even if it is imagination?" am I close?

In this regard, please consider the following.

  • When you realize that there is no Hanuman out there listening to you, would you not like to find a more meaningful way to find solace? This may even prove to be better because it is not based on fiction.
  • Children believe in all sorts of things that parents tell them, starting from "ommachi kanna kuththuvar". As they grow older they stop believing in these things even if they feel some nostalgia for the long gone beliefs. They may even yearn for those innocent days, but they know better.
  • Humans have paid a heavy price for this belief over millennia.
I am fully aware that this is a very disconcerting thing. But I think there is nothing to be fearful of.

Cheers!
 
Dear Smt Renu Ji,

Fully agreed about your opinion on evolution. I always wondered why the monkeys stopped their transformation into humans.

Regards

Monkeys have not stopped evolving.
Nor have insects.
Nor has any living being.
Evolution is a continuing process.
At the molecular level we are mutating every second.
Our cells are continously "adapting" to the environment.
Sometimes there are aberrations.
Evolution is not alien to hinduism.
Only the 'people of the book' esp the religions of christianity and islam do not beleive in evolution.
But then hey we are talking abt people who area averse to anything called 'science'.
Ignorance is truly bliss i suppose...
 
Dear Smt HH Ji,

I do not understand how long it takes a monkey to completely become human, how long he dwells in a form, may be between monkey to full grown human. This "over time" in Darwin Theory means how long?,

how the Negros and whites are born? I can understand if they are mixed in colour, how they have pure different colors? were they evolved at the same time?

Why human evolved from monkey while other animals like bulls remain bulls and dogs remain dogs.

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]While Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a relatively young archetype, the evolutionary worldview itself is as old as antiquity. Ancient Greek philosophers such as Anaximander postulated the development of life from non-life and the evolutionary descent of man from animal. Charles Darwin simply brought something new to the old philosophy -- a plausible mechanism called "natural selection."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]Darwin's Theory of Evolution - A Theory In Crisis
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a theory in crisis in light of the tremendous advances we've made in molecular biology, biochemistry and genetics over the past fifty years.
[/FONT]

Ref: http://www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/

Regards
 
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....weird isnt it.

Hello Renu,

No, it is not weird at all.....

I did not know you doubted evolution.

Actually, within the scientific community there is no second opinion about evolution. There is a great body of evidence that support evolution. Please see this Wiki article.

Evolution remains controversial only among some religious groups.

Evolution is not standing still, just that it moves so slow in complex organisms that we cannot observe in real time. Earth is about 4 billion years old. First life on earth appeared within about 500 million years after that. It took another 3.5 billion years for the early humans to come around. So, to observe evolution of complex life forms you need records over millions of years. But, evolution in simpler life forms that reproduce much faster than primates,etc. have been observed and studied.

The missing link argument is what one could call the argument of the gaps. The interesting thing about gaps is scientists are finding fossil evidence within these gaps that fit what theory of evolution predicts exactly. Further, as more and more physical evidence is discovered, the gaps are getting filled more and more, leaving no room for doubters.

Raghy, if there were great human civilizations in the past that were wiped out, we will still have fossil evidence of them. There is no such evidence. There are no more dinosaurs, but we have ample evidence of their long gone presence.

From what Anand, PVR, and Raghy have written, it seems there is some misunderstanding about what the theory of evolution is. The underlying principle is random mutations of genes that sometimes give survival and reproductive advantage. In such cases, these mutations get transmitted to the next generation and become predominant. So, a mutation that was rare in one generation becomes a common feature after a few generations if it bestows an advantage. Over eons this leads to either the old one getting wiped out and replaced by the new one, or, both old and new existing side by side as two closely related species. Other factors such as natural disasters, climate change, etc., also play a part.

Please understand what evolution is all about. Then, if you still want to reject it, who can stop you?

Cheers!
 
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Dear Prof Nara Ji,

Some of the sites I visited (modern advancement in this theory of evolution) says fossil records are not supporting.

Instead of automatically rejecting the theory of evolution of Darwin, the scientific establishment found itself in a dilemma. On the one hand the original theory of evolution had big and key chunks of it disproven, especially by the fossil record. On the other hand, the scientific establishment wanted to maintain its cherished "naturalism."

What do you think they did?

The primary goal of orthodox science is not truth, but the goal is to avoid, at all costs, any mention of God. Darwin's "naturalistic" explanation of how species came to be had to be protected and preserved, no matter what the scientific evidence was.



The Empty Box of Evolution

Regards
 
.... Some of the sites I visited (modern advancement in this theory of evolution) says fossil records are not supporting.


Dear PVR, the link you provided seems to be an affiliate of the Discovery Institute of ID fame. They are not interested in science, they are interested in ID. They have been completely discredited the federal courts in Dover, PA.

Let me repeat from my earlier post, there is no second opinion within the scientific community about the validity of evolution, there is too much evidence in its support. There are differences of opinion as to how evolution works, that's all.

Cheers!
 
Dear Smt HH Ji,

I do not understand how long it takes a monkey to completely become human, how long he dwells in a form, may be between monkey to full grown human. This "over time" in Darwin Theory means how long?,

how the Negros and whites are born? I can understand if they are mixed in colour, how they have pure different colors? were they evolved at the same time?

Why human evolved from monkey while other animals like bulls remain bulls and dogs remain dogs.

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]

[/FONT]

Ref: Darwin's Theory Of Evolution

Regards

Dear Prof Nara Ji,

Some of the sites I visited (modern advancement in this theory of evolution) says fossil records are not supporting.

[/FONT]


The Empty Box of Evolution

Regards

Shri PVR ji,

If you are interested, i request you to borrow a book on the very basics of molecular evolution and start reading it.

Without knowing the basis of evolution, it is not possible to discuss it.

What you, anand and some others talk about is stuff from history, anthropology, civilization, religion, etc.

It is like a lawyer and a chemist talking about a biochemical reaction - both will understand only that much of what the other says.

Bulls have not remained bulls. All are products of evolution and go on evolving. All living beings share paralogous and orthalogous genes.

You do not see evolution happening within a few life spans or few centuries.

Example: Fish in deep ocean (where no light reaches) turn blind because they do not need that sensory organ anymore. Instead of that, they develop other sensory abilities that can help them find food. Its all about adaptability to environmental needs / changes.

Btw, whites were once upon a time blacks. Read about the controvery on Watson' s remarks: DNA pioneer James Watson is blacker than he thought - Times Online and http://news.softpedia.com/news/When-White-Proves-to-be-Black-45247.shtml
 
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You know i actually kind of doubt this theory of evolution most of the times.
We should be having bigger hands becos many indulge is accepting bribes--but hand size is still the same.

weird isnt it.

Dear Renuji,

Please, how can you even think of saying that? If a medico like you has even one iota of doubt about the theory of evolution, what hope is there for laymen!...I tell you...I'm losing the will to live!! :)

Interestingly, I read in the papers here months ago about how the average European men and women's foot size have increased significantly since the 60s and also waist etc. They put it down to better nutrition and so on.


Dear Amala, your response makes quite a bit of sense. If you will permit me to paraphrase, "if it gives some solace, what is wrong even if it is imagination?" am I close?

In this regard, please consider the following.

  • When you realize that there is no Hanuman out there listening to you, would you not like to find a more meaningful way to find solace? This may even prove to be better because it is not based on fiction.
  • Children believe in all sorts of things that parents tell them, starting from "ommachi kanna kuththuvar". As they grow older they stop believing in these things even if they feel some nostalgia for the long gone beliefs. They may even yearn for those innocent days, but they know better.
  • Humans have paid a heavy price for this belief over millennia.
I am fully aware that this is a very disconcerting thing. But I think there is nothing to be fearful of.

Cheers!

You're pretty close in your paraphrasing but I wouldn't call it imagination or fiction. That would mean total disbelief and I don't totally disbelief.

If I was absolutely pushed into choosing between atheism and agnosticism I would pick the latter because hand on my heart that is my position. What I'm trying to say is the chances of my realising there is no Hanuman is pretty slim. I prefer the benefit of the doubt...to err on the side of caution if you like.

I am aware of humans paying the price for this since time immemorial and that is tragic but I honestly don't feel my belief is affecting anyone adversely.

I'm not sure if I made any sense but there you go :)
 
Dear Amala,

I have always doubted the theory of evolution.
I might be a medico but i doubt so many things in medical science itself.
Science are just evidence based and assumptions which could be disproved at a later date.
Like for example, Medical science does not believe in the existence of a soul,subtle body and causal body.
I believe there is a soul, causal body and subtle body.
It is not that I blindly follow religion but you will realise as you study religion in depth that there is so much one would find out on ones own and personal experinces will also confirm your believe.

As a doctor battling sometimes to save a patients life, I have realised many times I am just a mere mortal and there is something above me which determines everything.
i cant explain in words but you would understand this when you see the "Look of Death" of a freshly deceased body.
When a car does not start and function it still looks the same.
When a human is dead he/she does not look the same.
What was animating him all this while?
I really cant find the words to describe and explain.
Its something one must realise from within.
Many people of science do not think like me and they do not need to agree or disagree with me.

Science isnt everything Amala.
You would be suprised that a lot of people of science I have known in my life have very little intelligence.
They are so text book oriented with no scope for any cerebral activity.
Having a string of degrees behind our names does not necessarily mean one is intelligent.

Even in medical science after all I just studied what was put forth by another persons discovery.
I will only call myself intelligent the day I contribute something to medical science.
That too I will say I was lucky enough to contribute because God unveiled it to me.



I do not believe in the theory of evolution as explained by Charles Darwin.
Organisms undergo adaptation for the survival.
Humans have displayed changes in height, girth, skin colour, intelligence etc because of environmental, nutrition, lifestyle, dietary changes.
Same goes for other species too.
I call it Adaptation and not evolution.

Most of us must have seen the chart of Darwins theory of evolution, dear Amala just add the cycle of Karma to it and it makes perfect sense.
I would want to call it Theory of Karmic Evolution.
We all started off from a single cell organism and worked our Karmic way up to where we are now.
Along the way adaptation at the cellular levels took place thats all.
And cellular adaptation is still taking place.
 
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Hindu view of evolution[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]David Frawley (www.vedanet.com, [email protected])[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hindu Voice UK, February 2009[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Evolution and Science[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
evolution2.jpg
Modern science recognizes an evolution of form in the world of nature as the dominant movement of life. It notes how the bodies of different creatures adapt over time, becoming more complex and sophisticated through succeeding generations, with new species arising that demonstrate important advances in structure and function over what went before them.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From the beginning of life on Earth with a chemical soup that resulted in single cell organisms to the current state of the planet dominated by intelligent life, science has portrayed an onward march of evolution, albeit with a few detours along the side. Science has outlined a physical or bodily evolution from bacteria and viruses, to plants, animals and human beings. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Since the time of Darwin, science has gone into great detail trying to explain this bodily evolution in terms of the outer factors of natural selection, survival of the fittest and adaptation to changing environments – as if it were a process that occurred of itself by natural necessity like water flowing down a hill. Evolution has sometimes been crudely portrayed as a survival of the strongest, though we often find that smaller and more adaptable species outlast large predators.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Science emphasizes genetics as the main mechanism behind this proposed evolutionary process, with genetic mutations occurring slowly and randomly over time as the main means of developing new and more complex species. Science has discovered an underlying genetic code or DNA pattern behind the great diversity of life, linking all creatures together in a greater evolutionary process. This marvelous genetic code is simpler, more concise and yet more powerful in its results than any code or data base that the human mind can invent. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Evolution Itself Evolving as an Idea[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yet the scientific account of evolution contains notable gaps and question marks. Nature does not proceed through mere uniform processes. On the contrary, natural history is punctuated by powerful cataclysmic events, whether meteor strikes, volcanic eruptions or great earthquakes. Powerful climate shifts like great Ice Ages have decisive impacts on the development of life, such as have strongly affected human history. Such natural catastrophes can waylay even well adapted species and favor those that otherwise might remain in the shadows. In short, a uniformist and progressive evolution seems at odds with the great spirals and cycles of nature that have a great deal of unpredictability to them. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If we examine life at a deeper level, we find something more than a play of chemicals becoming progressively more complex. We note in the world of nature various holistic patterns, gestalts and energy fields linking together otherwise discrete phenomena. There are powers of unity, identity, life and consciousness that weave together various creatures and species like different beads on a single strand. The Gaia hypothesis suggests an overriding Earth intelligence behind apparent random evolutionary adaptations of different creatures. Nuclear physics also is looking to an underlying cosmic intelligence behind the intricate and mathematically precise laws of physics in order to explain their precision. While the idea of evolution remains important, it is becoming increasingly clear that there must be a higher consciousness and energy to support it, which takes evolution in the direction of Hindu thought.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hindu thought emphasizes that the universe proceeds through a powerful underlying force or Shakti that promotes periodic transformations and a long term development of higher consciousness. The universe does not follow a progressive linear development but proceeds through cycles and spirals of growth, destruction and transformation, like the great dance of Shiva. Such a great power guiding the universal movement reflects a higher will and consciousness, not just chance evolution.
The current scientific account of evolution leaves any underlying life-force or power of consciousness out of the picture except as a by-product of biochemical processes. It seems as though we are following the tracks of an animal and proposing an evolution of the tracks themselves without positing any creature making the tracks, as if one track somehow manages to evolve into the next! Science recognizes life and intelligence only as epiphenomena, results not causes of the evolutionary process.
Life and intelligence reflect a deep sense of self, being and awareness as we all know within ourselves. We human beings have a distinct sense of being a single person, not just a collection of cells and organs, for example. Without such deeper consciousness powers, it is hard to see what makes a single creature aware of itself and capable of making decisions out of a chemical network that spreads in all directions with no clear boundaries.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Evolution and Yoga [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Evolution3.jpg
We can contrast the scientific view of material evolution with the view of Yoga, the great spiritual science of the East, which recognizes an evolution of consciousness as well as one of form. Yoga neither denies evolution to justify a religious view of creation out of nothing, nor reduces evolution to a blind play of material forces creating intelligence out of chance and inertia.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yoga teaches that form cannot evolve without consciousness. It is an inner consciousness that brings about evolutionary changes of form, not the form itself, which is no more than a shell. The creatures that we observe in nature are the result of an inner consciousness evolving in its self-expression through the movement of time and experience. Such a yogic view of evolution is most in evidence in the work of the great modern teacher, Sri Aurobindo but has antecedents and correlates throughout yogic and Hindu literature.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yoga connects evolution with the unfoldment of karma. It postulates not just a gross body that evolves at a physical level, but a subtle body that reincarnates and carries evolutionary information along with it at a deeper level. This is the linga sharira of Samkhya philosophy that is defined in other Hindu systems as well. The goal of cosmic evolution is not simply material adaptation but the development of higher consciousness through an evolution of consciousness.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This subtle body creates another strand of evolution besides DNA, which are the karmic patterns it holds. Besides our physical environment and biosphere, there are subtler energy fields around the Earth that hold these karmic potentials and collective samskaras. Hindu thought and its practices of ritual and yoga work to improve the karmic energies in the world, so that this higher evolution of consciousness can proceed, not just the outer evolution of more complex organisms.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Karma and rebirth are the primary means of this evolution of consciousness, its underlying modus operandi. Only an intelligence that is reborn can truly evolve in awareness, carrying on the seeds of that intelligence from life to life. Otherwise intelligence would die with the body, letting the form disintegrate with nothing left to continue.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Consciousness and the Universe[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hindu thought teaches us that there is a soul in nature, of which the human being is an embodiment. This soul exists in plants and animals as well as human beings. An ancient Vedic text, the Aitareya Aranyaka, teaches that plants have a soul because they have the ability to feel. Animals have a mind (chitta) which we can see through their usage of the senses and motor organs. Human beings, however, have the capacity for real intelligence, prajna, through which we can know the reality of things and ultimately realize the Divine within ourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A related text, the Aitareya Upanishad, has an interesting allegory about cosmic creation. It says that in the beginning the Self envisioned the universe as a series of worlds or lokas, planes of existence, from the gross earth to the subtle cosmic spaces. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then the Self decided that having created the universe, it should take birth within it in order to know its creation from the inside. However, for that to occur, it required a suitable vehicle or body in which to enter. It tried a cow and a horse but found that they were not sufficient vehicles for the development of the wisdom or prajna that it needed. Then it found the human body and found that that the human being was a suitable vehicle.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Self then entered the human body from the suture at the top of the head. It brought all the cosmic powers with it, placing the Sun in the eye, the wind in the breath, fire in the speech and so on. It made the human being as a miniature of the greater universe.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The details of this allegory aside, the implication is clear. The Divine consciousness that creates the universe also enters into it in the form of living beings. It then evolves in order to create a body that will allow it to become conscious of its universal reality in an individual creature. The human being has that higher capacity of consciousness and developing it is the real purpose of our species. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Our true role in cosmic evolution is to facilitate that manifestation of the Divine consciousness within ourselves and in our world. This cannot be done by mere faith or any outer activity. It requires Yoga and meditation and a life-style that supports these. This is a very different view of life than science that views the development of the body as the main factor, or western religions that see faith alone or going to heaven as the goal of life. These systems do not recognize any real evolution of consciousness, much less karma and rebirth.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yoga rests upon a higher evolutionary potential within us. This is held latent in the Kundalini Shakti or power of Yoga that dwells latent in the base of the spine. Awakening that inner power of consciousness is the basis of higher Yoga practices.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So if someone asks, “Do Hindus believe in evolution?”: the answer is that Hindu thought is based on an evolution of consciousness. While this does not exclude an evolution of form, such as science proposes, it places that in the context of a greater development. This evolution of consciousness is not a matter of mere natural selection or genetics. It requires yoga and meditation at an individual level. It is a potential latent within each individual but requires the appropriate support factors to set it in motion. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We could say that Hindu thought embodies the highest evolutionary urge of the human species, which is the development of universal consciousness. That is why Hindu thought cannot limit itself according to the confines of any single belief, science, discipline, book or teacher. It takes up the entire evolutionary movement both inwardly and outwardly, holding the great Shakti of the supreme consciousness that directs all the forces of nature.[/FONT]
 
Dear Amala,

I have always doubted the theory of evolution.
I might be a medico but i doubt so many things in medical science itself.
Science are just evidence based and assumptions which could be disproved at a later date.
Like for example, Medical science does not believe in the existence of a soul,subtle body and causal body.
I believe there is a soul, causal body and subtle body.
It is not that I blindly follow religion but you will realise as you study religion in depth that there is so much one would find out on ones own and personal experinces will also confirm your believe.

As a doctor battling sometimes to save a patients life, I have realised many times I am just a mere mortal and there is something above me which determines everything.
i cant explain in words but you would understand this when you see the "Look of Death" of a freshly deceased body.
When a car does not start and function it still looks the same.
When a human is dead he/she does not look the same.
What was animating him all this while?
I really cant find the words to describe and explain.
Its something one must realise from within.
Many people of science do not think like me and they do not need to agree or disagree with me.

Science isnt everything Amala.
You would be suprised that a lot of people of science I have known in my life have very little intelligence.
They are so text book oriented with no scope for any cerebral activity.
Having a string of degrees behind our names does not necessarily mean one is intelligent.
:) once i met a doc who did not know that man had been to the moon!! When others were talking abt neil armstrong, he kept asking 'really?' all the way. But he was a topper in a particular field of surgery. Well, there are multiples types of intelligence. if one is good at one thing, he need not be knowledgable abt other things. Than does not make such a man less intelligent i suppose... intelligence is a very relative term perhaps...also some ppl can be blessed with more eq than iq....


Even in medical science after all I just studied what was put forth by another persons discovery.
I will only call myself intelligent the day I contribute something to medical science.
That too I will say I was lucky enough to contribute because God unveiled it to me.


I do not believe in the theory of evolution as explained by Charles Darwin.
Organisms undergo adaptation for the survival.
Humans have displayed changes in height, girth, skin colour, intelligence etc because of environmental, nutrition, lifestyle, dietary changes.
Same goes for other species too.
I call it Adaptation and not evolution.

Most of us must have seen the chart of Darwins theory of evolution, dear Amala just add the cycle of Karma to it and it makes perfect sense.
I would want to call it Theory of Karmic Evolution.
We all started off from a single cell organism and worked our Karmic way up to where we are now.
Along the way adaptation at the cellular levels took place thats all.
And cellular adaptation is still taking place.

:) definitions of adaptation: adaptation - definition of adaptation by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

here's a good one: https://notes.utk.edu/bio/greenberg.nsf/0/3ee9cccd7c64bffd85256cff0061f4d7?OpenDocument

adaptation is just an other word for evolution - but then it just depends on how each wants to see it, i suppose..

Cells adapt, change, evolve, survive....

Dunno if god made man, perhaps god made atoms, and atoms made man.

regards
 
Dear Renu, Greetings!

I read this article with great interest and was thoroughly disappointed. Please permit me to make a few comments. I respect your convictions and that of the people of faith. Therefore, I request you not to take this as criticism directed at you.

Science is only interested in observing the world around us and understanding it as best as possible. Science is also a process that is self correcting. Mistakes and unscrupulous deceptions get outed. Established facts become established through a long process of whetting by competing scientists. It does not claim it has all the answers.

Whereas, religious dogma/doctrine gets handed down and must be believed. While science does not wade into the realm of religion, the religious criticize science with absolutely no basis in fact. For example, this article paints a grossly erroneous caricature of evolution, which has been observed and verified, and then makes claims that have never been observed and verified, worse still can never be observed or verified. I have highlighted these instances in the following.


A Hindu view of evolution

.... In short, a uniformist and progressive evolution seems at odds with the great spirals and cycles of nature that have a great deal of unpredictability to them.

Evolution is a scientific concept, not a religious one. Why should there be a Hindu view or Buddhist view? The title itself gives away the religious motivation of this article.

Further, what does "uniformist and progressive" mean? Evolution is like a tree, not linear at all. Having mischaracterized evolution, this author proceeds to say it is at odds with the notion of spirals and cycles that are purely religious dogma. Since when a scientific discovery is required to be not at odds with religious dogma. Galileo's observations were at odds with established doctrine and he had to pay dearly. Fortunately, those days are gone.

......... There are powers of unity, identity, life and consciousness that weave together various creatures and species like different beads on a single strand. The Gaia hypothesis suggests an overriding Earth intelligence behind apparent random evolutionary adaptations of different creatures.

Once again, the author cites some vague speculations and hypotheses as legitimate criticisms of a well observed and verified natural phenomenon.

....While the idea of evolution remains important, it is becoming increasingly clear that there must be a higher consciousness and energy to support it, which takes evolution in the direction of Hindu thought.

One may speculate all he/she wants, but they cannot say that is becoming "increasingly clear". This is just religious dogma with not a shred of scientific evidence.


..... The universe does not follow a progressive linear development but proceeds through cycles and spirals of growth, destruction and transformation, like the great dance of Shiva.

More religious stuff.

.... We human beings have a distinct sense of being a single person, not just a collection of cells and organs, for example. Without such deeper consciousness powers,

This sense of consciousness is a subject that is being studied in a systematic manner by many scientists, including one V.S. Ramachandran a TB by birth. (Aside, have you heard some of his lectures, simply wonderful, here is one you may enjoy.)

Absence of understanding is an opportunity for exploration for scientists, but is an opportunity to insert speculations as facts for the religiously motivated.


.... Yoga neither denies evolution to justify a religious view of creation out of nothing, nor reduces evolution to a blind play of material forces creating intelligence out of chance and inertia.

A false representation of evolution. The fundamentals of evolution is random mutation and natural selection. Natural selection is NOT by "chance" but by the survival and reproductive advantage the mutation bestows.

....Yoga connects evolution with the unfoldment of karma. It postulates not just a gross body that evolves at a physical level, but a subtle body that reincarnates and carries evolutionary information along with it at a deeper level.

Subtle body, reincarnation, etc. are religious dogma. They have no place in science.

This subtle body creates another strand of evolution besides DNA, which are the karmic patterns it holds. Besides our physical environment and biosphere, there are subtler energy fields around the Earth that hold these karmic potentials and collective samskaras.

More religious dogma. On the one hand we have a scientific theory based on careful observation of the world around us whose predictions about species based on this theory that have been later confirmed by fossil evidence. On the other hand we have this man offering up a religious dogma out of thin air with no observable evidence whatsoever.

Only an intelligence that is reborn can truly evolve in awareness, carrying on the seeds of that intelligence from life to life. Otherwise intelligence would die with the body, letting the form disintegrate with nothing left to continue.

More wild claims with nothing other than religious motivation to back him up.

Hindu thought teaches us that there is a soul in nature, of which the human being is an embodiment.

Hindu thought is well and good, but not evidence.

So if someone asks, “Do Hindus believe in evolution?”: the answer is that Hindu thought is based on an evolution of consciousness.

This statement says it all. Does a Hindu believe in electricity? Does a Hindu believe in gravity? Does a Hindu believe in modern medicine? Why should being a Hindu matter whether one should believe in established scientific fact or not.

I guess the difference is whether there is any benefit or not. If accepting the fact of evolution will cure cancer or make it easy to find a job or go places faster than a bullock-cart, and on and on, I am sure no Hindu will hesitate one second to believe in it, including the author of this article.

We could say that Hindu thought embodies the highest evolutionary urge of the human species, which is the development of universal consciousness.


More dogma.

Do some looking around folks, evolution is an undisputed fact within the scientific community. Even Francis Collins, the one who directed the Human Genome project and an avowed Christian, accepts evolution. He tries to reconcile it with his faith, but does not reject the validity of evolution.

This controversy is only within the religious community. Those who are unwilling to accept evolution do so out of religious convictions, not facts.

Cheers!
 
Hello everyone,

Are earthquakes punishment from god for human wrongdoing? Ask Pat Robertson, a major d@#k here in the U.S., and he would answer in the affirmative. But, wait a minute, even our own Mahatma felt the same way when a terrible earthquake struck Bihar.

But I think god would never inflict collective punishment, and this why I don't think there is a god that intervenes in the personal affairs of humans.

I read some interesting articles in the aftermath of Haiti earthquake. If you find the time please take a look.


This poverty is the direct legacy of perhaps the most brutal system of colonial exploitation in world history, compounded by decades of systematic postcolonial oppression.


“The US has spent a lot of energy over the last 100 years in preventing the emancipation of ordinary Haitians citizens and every time there was a chance of this it was blocked,” says academic Peter Hallward, author of Damming the Flood.


Haiti is a country created by former slaves, kidnapped West Africans, who, in 1804, when slavery still flourished in the United States and the Caribbean, threw off their cruel French masters and created their own republic. Haitians have been punished ever since for claiming their freedom: by the French who, in the 1820s, demanded and received payment from the Haitians for the slave colony, impoverishing the country for years to come; by an often brutal American occupation from 1915 to 1934; by indigenous misrule that the American government aided and abetted. (In more recent years American administrations fell into a pattern of promoting and then undermining Haitian constitutional democracy.)
 
The truly intelligent one will be the one who knows eveything.

Remember Sage Uddalaka asking his son Shwetaketu "Do you know that which by knowing it one knows everything"


 
Dear Nara,

Thank you very much for your articles and links but I was rather suprised that you mentioned the caste of Shri V.S Ramachandran being a TB by birth.
Would it have made any difference to the reader?
A man of wisdom is appreciated anywhere and his caste would not make a difference.

The article by David Frawley was very enlighting to me.
It make perfect sense to me.

Dear Nara we both are like AharNisham.
We are as different as day and night in our beliefs.
But that does not dissapoint me in any way.
Neither does any of your postings dissapoint me.
Pairs of opposites is the middle name of our very mundane existence.

But I stand firmly rooted in my beliefs without any doubt and not even a scientific evidence of the Ricther 8 magnitude can shake me.
Tsunamis of evidences come and go but only Truth remains.
 
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.... but I was rather suprised that you mentioned the caste of Shri V.S Ramachandran being a TB by birth.
Would it have made any difference to the reader?


No Renu, it would not and should not make any difference. I thought I was being careful by saying he was TB only by the accident of birth, just as I myself am. Perhaps it was my subconscious, trying to justify that I am not the only heathen born with the tag of TB.

I understand your stubborn faith. That itself is a consequence of genes passed down, that for sure had, in the past, provided a survival advantage. In the future, your progeny that will carry some of the genes you now carry, will slowly, but surely, will shed the "god gene", as it becomes increasingly useless for survival and reproduction.

Cheers!
 
just for info:

Agastya Samhita 14th century AD which deals with electricity.

There is a shloka which deals with generation of electrical energy using copper plates and chemicals kept in hundreds of earthern pots to make a battery bank.


Vaisheshika darshanam 1.1.20, 1.1.21,5.1.25

  • motion is the cause of conjuction, disjunction and velocity
  • motion againts gravity is due to effort and conjuction is the effect
  • motion of precious stones and compass needle is due to invisible cause.
Siddhanta -shiromani - bhuvanakosha -6 (528 AD)

massive celestial bodies are attracted powerfully towards the earth by her own gravitational force and they appear to fall as a result of such attraction, but when equal forces act on a body in space from all sides how can it fall?


Vaisheshika darshanam1.2

  • there is no effect possible without a cause
  • but the absence of effect does not mean the absence of cause
Rik -Samhita-1.50.4

it is remembered that the sulight travels 2,202 yojanas in half a nimisha.
1 yojana= 9 miles
110 yards=9.6025 miles
2,202 yojanas=21144.705 miles
time taken=1/2 nimisha =1/8.75=0.114286seconds
thus speed of light=1,85,016.169miles/sec



Suryasidhanth madhyamadhikarah-59

the radius of the earth is 800 yojanas.the circumference of the earth is the result of multiplication of its radius with 2 and square root of 1024056 or 326x 10 to power of 7
(one danda is equal to 1.24 meters approxiamately)


inputs from Science in samskrit by Samskrita Bharati
 
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No Renu, it would not and should not make any difference. I thought I was being careful by saying he was TB only by the accident of birth, just as I myself am. Perhaps it was my subconscious, trying to justify that I am not the only heathen born with the tag of TB.

I understand your stubborn faith. That itself is a consequence of genes passed down, that for sure had, in the past, provided a survival advantage. In the future, your progeny that will carry some of the genes you now carry, will slowly, but surely, will shed the "god gene", as it becomes increasingly useless for survival and reproduction.

Cheers!

Dear Naraji,

"The God gene" will not disappear or perish.Something that existed cannot perish,it may change its form or even may lie dormant for a while and resurface when the environment is condusive.

The "God Gene" is not Useless but its the deluding Maya that makes us Use Less of it.
 
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just for info:

Agastya Samhita 14th century AD which deals with electricity.

There is a shloka which deals with generation of electrical energy using copper plates and chemicals kept in hundreds of earthern pots to make a battery bank.


Vaisheshika darshanam 1.1.20, 1.1.21,5.1.25

  • motion is the cause of conjuction, disjunction and velocity
  • motion againts gravity is due to effort and conjuction is the effect
  • motion of precious stones and compass needle is due to invisible cause.
Siddhanta -shiromani - bhuvanakosha -6 (528 AD)

massive celestial bodies are attracted powerfully towards the earth by her own gravitational force and they appear to fall as a result of such attraction, but when equal forces act on a body in space from all sides how can it fall?


Vaisheshika darshanam1.2

  • there is no effect possible without a cause
  • but the absence of effect does not mean the absence of cause
Rik -Samhita-1.50.4

it is remembered that the sulight travels 2,202 yojanas in half a nimisha.
1 yojana= 9 miles
110 yards=9.6025 miles
2,202 yojanas=21144.705 miles
time taken=1/2 nimisha =1/8.75=0.114286seconds
thus speed of light=1,85,016.169miles/sec



Suryasidhanth madhyamadhikarah-59

the radius of the earth is 800 yojanas.the circumference of the earth is the result of multiplication of its radius with 2 and square root of 1024056 or 326x 10 to power of 7
(one danda is equal to 1.24 meters approxiamately)


inputs from Science in samskrit by Samskrita Bharati

Dr.Renuka,

I am really amazed to know that Agastya Samhita has written a sloka about generation of electricity in 14th century AD. I tried to locate the sloka with meaning in the internet but unable to find it.

Could you please help me in finding from internet or post the sloka with meaning.

All the best
 
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