God Exists

[renuka]

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For me, my existence is the proof of existence of God (X factor !). If I don't exist God also does not exist for me.


Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I second this! If I can exists why cant God?
Just like some say Ghost don't exists but wait till one stands right in front of you just like what I had seen before.
So for me Ghost exists..So why cant God?

 

[Yamaka]

Genesis of A Belief: A New Temple and A God For a Small New Village

Place: Near Ramanathapuram Town; Name of the Village: Puthupatti

About 200 villagers gathered and talked about how to make the new village more prosperous.

A man with a beard said, "Fellows, you see we don't have our own temple; we always go to the next town to worship God... why not build our own here... I know Vedas and Puranas... I will teach you every thing".

"Oh Swamiji, we like you, yes... we need our own God and our own Temple.. we must grow more prosperous... what should we do?" villagers yelled.

"Okay.. give me some money from each family.. I will first make a God from stone...WE will convert the Stone into a God with serious poojas, and then we will erect a small hut over it - voila we will have a small Temple; I will run the Temple, and you pay me with your offerings.." Swamiji elaborated.

He bought a huge Stone and asked a low end laborer to chisel it in the form of Lord Rama! He painted it in black and put some garland called it God Rama.

A new hut was erected over the Lord and a new Temple came into being..

Villagers were very happy... they paid the Swamiji well in the form of offerings to the Lord Rama! There were prayers, poojas and so many festivals around the new Temple. Villagers and the Swamiji were having a gala time in all....until..

Suddenly, the monsoon failed... many villagers went to the near by sea for fishing to make a living... they failed. All the special poojas and prayers to Lord Rama all day and night did not give any relief.. weeks turned to months.. a year later,

Villagers asked Swamiji, "Yow..what's happening to our God.. is he just a Stone ?... our lives became so bad AFTER this God came to our Village? What's going on here?"

"Oh people, you don't call me Swamiji any longer these day, you call me a just Yow...what did I do wrong?"

They all yelled, "You.. brought this Stone, and cheated us as God... Is it fair to you, the bogus Godman.... Yaen intha Kadavul Kallaanaan Ya?"

There came a well educated Dr. Intellectual and asked the villagers, "You people, prove to ME that this Stone is a Stone and not a Kadavul".

The Villagers all turned around picked up stones and stoned him to death!

Swamiji just ran away from the Village!! What's the moral of the story? Guess....

 

[renuka]

Yamaka said:

There came a well educated intellectual and asked the villagers, "You people, prove that this Stone is a Stone and not a Kadavul".

The Villagers all turned around picked up stones and stoned him to death!

Swamiji just ran away from the Village!! What's the moral of the story? Guess....​

Moral of the story: Yamaka got stoned!!!

 

[renuka]

Kallai Mattum Kandaal Kadavul Theriyadhu Kadavul Mattum Kandaal Kalladi Theriyadhu


Some see Stone as God,Some circumambulate a Stone as a pilgrimage ritual and some succumb to injuries when Stoned to Death!!!

 

[Yamaka]

Kallai Mattum Kandaal Kadavul Theriyadhu Kadavul Mattum Kandaal Kalladi Theriyadhu


Some see Stone as God,Some circumambulate a Stone as a pilgrimage ritual and some succumb to injuries when Stoned to Death!!!

What's called FEAR? What's called Superstition? What's called Logic here?

 

[tks]

Some see Stone as God,Some circumambulate a Stone as a pilgrimage ritual and some succumb to injuries when Stoned to Death!!!

By the way, stoning to death is a barbaric practice and is a routine concept for someone raised in a radical Islamic family even today !

 

[DrBarani]

Sri DrBarani -

Given this set of exchanges seem to be one among many let me share my thoughts. I would not unconditionally agree to not point out flaws when that happens in debates

Thank you. I will certainly, if time and other factors permit, try to analyze debate points raised by others. However, I am still refining my own internet behaviour, so I am not well qualified to say others are abusing their privilege hiding behind anonymity.

Regarding Mr.Nara's position, I think he is only being brutally honest with his dissection of beliefs and not taking lame attempts to undercut debaters. I am sure he does see the point that our cognizance and deduction abilities may be limited by our learning process.

Atheists who "logically became so", are mostly in the same state where I almost went during my college years. I was citing such paradoxes. I was stubborn in asking Who created God? And the one fine day I came across a well organized mathematical book that showed these are paradoxes because they are presented the wrong way. It challenged my conventional way of thinking purely from a mathematical basis. I began to question what is logic, what does it mean by true and false, what about the assumptions made in taking either a true or false direction. It took a few months actually for me to digest the fact that I have all along been a diehard fan of a rather primitive mathematical trick called binary logic. There is no reason why the default state in a logic has to be False. That assumption has been used for mainly the convenience of electronics. It should not be used to limit our analytical abilities. I went on to study other logic frameworks. Some are constructed in a very excellent manner. The binary logic became a subset of other logic systems and a paradox represented in (T,F) had to become (T,F,X,Y) type states where recursive application would result in (T,F,X,Y,F,T,Y,X...) type extensions but not the same (T,F) paradox.

More later, I have to cook for my mother!

 

[renuka]

What's called FEAR? What's called Superstition? What's called Logic here?

FEAR? I dont know cos God said "Why Fear When I am Here"

SUPERSTITION: Is a belief that many want to hold on to and rationalist crack their heads trying to disprove.

LOGIC: Looking Overall at God's Intelligent Creation.(LOGIC)

 

[Yamaka]

"By the way, stoning to death is a barbaric practice and is a routine concept for someone raised in a radical Islamic family even today !"​

1. When Crusaders took Jerusalem for the first time, they killed their enemies and some ate them!

2. During the riots in Mumbai, "Slumdog Millionaire" showed how the Hindu mob killed a hapless woman to death with an iron rod (thus making Salim and Jamal orphans).

Thus, the world knows how cruel religious Christians and Hindus can be! Beware!!

Cruelty is the province of the religious zealots, IMO.

 

[renuka]

1. When Crusaders I took Jerusalem, they killed their enemies and ate them!

2. During the riots in Mumbai, Slumdog Millionaire showed how the Hindu mob killed a hapless woman to death with an iron rod (thus making Salim and Jamal orphans).

Thus the world knows how cruel religious Christians, Muslims and Hindus can be! Beware!!

1)Crusaders were humans

2)Rioters in Mumbai were Humans.

Thus the world knows how cruel Humans can be..Beware!!!

Thats why Gandhi sang "Iswhar Allah Tere Naam Sabko Sanmati Dey Bhagawan"​

 

[DrBarani]

1)Crusaders were humans

2)Rioters in Mumbai were Humans.

Thus the world knows how cruel Humans can be..Beware!!!

Thats why Gandhi sang "Iswhar Allah Tere Naam Sabko Sanmati Dey Bhagawan"
​

Pol Pot committed genocide murdering millions innocent people.

Mao committed genocide murdering tens of millions of innocent people.

Stalin committed genocide murdering tens of millions innocent people.

Atheists are mass murdering criminals who love to pin the blame on the other side.

Beware of the Atheists!

 

[Brahmanyan]

1)Crusaders were humans

2)Rioters in Mumbai were Humans.

Thus the world knows how cruel Humans can be..Beware!!!
Thats why Gandhi sang "Iswhar Allah Tere Naam Sabko Sanmati Dey Bhagawan"
​

Dear Dr. Renuka,

Yes. Human nature is all the same whether he is a Bushman or President Bush. His reaction towards others is moulded by his needs and opportunity.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[tks]

Pol Pot committed genocide murdering millions innocent people.

Mao committed genocide murdering tens of millions of innocent people.

Stalin committed genocide murdering tens of millions innocent people.

Atheists are mass murdering criminals who love to pin the blame on the other side.

Beware of the Atheists!

Super examples! Realization of communist manifesto in practice amounted to murdering millions of people. It is as if people who 'think' they control everything overcome their own conscience and ready to do any crime when opportunity presents itself. Under the name of logic humans are capable of doing anything!

While I really don't want to digress into religious discussion I do want to mention that Judaism and Hindusim (though it is not organized - no books, no one reads vedas like a Bible, no one like Pope to cover the whole diverse set of traditions and practices) are gentle religions in what they teach. It does not mean people will follow them and there will always be riots and killings. There is no concept of conversion at any cost which is an act of violence. Ends do not justify the means in what is taught. No Fatwas!! Most wars and killing today are caused by teachings of aggressive religions and atheists!

 

[Brahmanyan]

: God Exists

Pol Pot committed genocide murdering millions innocent people.
Mao committed genocide murdering tens of millions of innocent people.
Stalin committed genocide murdering tens of millions innocent people.
Atheists are mass murdering criminals who love to pin the blame on the other side.
Beware of the Atheists!

Dear Dr. Barani,

Though I agree that Leaders who have no faith in Religion or God have committed genocide, it is not uncommon among the Religious people to commit the same sin.

Adolf Hitler, who ordered extermination of Jewish race by his infamous Holocaust was a devout Christian. His antisemitism was influenced by religious writings.

President Harry S .Truman who knowingly ordered dropping of Atom Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August,1945, which killed 2.5 lakhs of innocent lives, was a deeply religious Baptist.

Recent times the disturbing visuals of Srilankan Solders shooting of unarmed Tamils brought to light by British TV Channel 4 has happened under very religious President.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[DrBarani]

Dear Dr. Barani,

Though I agree that Leaders who have no faith in Religion or God have committed genocide, it is not uncommon among the Religious people to commit the same sin.

Adolf Hitler, who ordered extermination of Jewish race by his infamous Holocaust was a devout Christian. His antisemitism was influenced by religious writings.

President Harry S .Truman who knowingly ordered dropping of Atom Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August,1945, which killed 2.5 lakhs of innocent lives, was a deeply religious Baptist.

Recent times the disturbing visuals of Srilankan Solders shooting of unarmed Tamils brought to light by British TV Channel 4 has happened under very religious President.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

All of that is Correct. My post was intended to place it on record that the blame game was began by an Atheist, not the believers. Some other day you might hear an atheist saying "you started it first!" and we can happily point to this thread!

The western religions have always been about crusading their faith around the planet.

At this juncture I'd like to state my analysis of Hitler and Jews. I do not think Hitler murdered Jews per se. The jewish groups are two kinds - liberal and zionists. The Zionists are in cahoots with Evangelists. The whole WW2 was aimed at creating a Zionist Israel on the background for the "second coming of Jesus". Hence, Hitler did not kill the Zionists, most of whom were in Europe.

Then who killed Jews?

It should be noted that USSR was running Marxism. Karl Marx was a Jew. And USSR army was mostly filled by liberal jews. The war between Hitler and Soviet Union... Hitler didn't take prisoners. He murdered them. It wasn't about jews. It just happened that most of them were liberal jews.

You want proof? Visit Moscow museum of world war II archives. They have the list of 6 million soviets who are "still missing" today. The same number of "jews killed by Hitler" who are actually Soviet troops. Soviet Union lost over 20M people in that war. Soviets won the war. Americans walked in to claim victory. I would trust a honest Soviet Communist over a scheming Christian Evangelist Crusader from USA! (Ok, not a great comparison, but just a relative comparison).

 

[ShivKC]

But at the same time, the vast majority of the people (like me) need a mentor in life who can be trusted at all times.

thats was a nice post. i would join you here

most of the atheists claim 'i did good to others, my family did so, after throwing out godhead. alright! but the question is , why they did such GOOD things,and what stops from doing bad also? being an atheist, what is good for him, could be bad for another atheist. another atheist may find, giving free medical service, as waste of money.

in the same way, many others also can also do extreme under cover bad things, didnt get caught with law or the society, and can say,' i dont believe in what god says, let me do what I want to do'.. this is a dangerous situation.


an atheist can kill some one, throw in the sea, escape the law and pretend to a noble man in society, and end with a peaceful death rendered with a 21 gun salute. is there any atheist ideology/judicial system,deliver Justice to such persons?


this narrows down to, the claim made by many atheist, 'religion has done all bad to humans, and did the most killing'. pat came the reply, 'please prove your point with numbers'' . any detailed study of history would say, the killing done in the name of god is very minuscule when compared to others. definition of killing (life) according to an atheist is, blood shed. but they failed to count the people who died without vaccine or modern day medicines/agriculture technology, which was invented by scientists who believed in alleviating poverty and deaths of human beings, for which they got motivations from the theist ideology. if not that would have lead to billions of deaths(leave alone killings).

in this line, the theists has some guidelines to life. one may point few wrong at the scriptures of theists saying, caste, varna,inquisition,jehad etc. but the over all picture, always stands on the positive side. they have a guildine, which majority or good. for an atheist , he himself can write his own guideline.. the two children of an atheist.. one child may go an serve the poor, and the next, with all his free will may choose to become a serial killer, without getting caught. On what basis, the father would condemn the acts of the second child, during the dinner time conversation?

in this view, god head gives a good convincing guidance and life reference, than what the atheist could have. all theists have some books for guidance, but what atheists have for life guidance? . religion has some bads, or lot bads, all fine, but , "some good guidance is better than no-guidance, which may even lead to jungle law".. something is better than nothing!

 

[ShivKC]

Recent times the disturbing visuals of Srilankan Solders shooting of unarmed Tamils brought to light by British TV Channel 4 has happened under very religious President.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

while evaluating the crimes upon theism Vs atheism, one should count on the religious ideology by which such acts, not the person.

rajapaskhe being a religious buddhist president might have killed tamils. simple, he has not truly followed what buddha said. even if some one discount it as 'just war', lets say, he has raped and murdered his maid... but did buddha teach this? being a buddhist religious president, he will be very well aware what karmic punishment he would get, in his next life. this is the different, when an atheist does.

for mao/stalin/lenin's children, their fathers are still great, even they can follow their parents.

lots of religious people had done millions of murders, but they and their children all know that they will get justice by karma/hell etc. but for an atheist, his ideology itself, doesn't condemn any bad acts.

Mao/stalins statues may still continue to adore the streets, but as days go by, and religious teaching influences, children of godse/germans/portuguese/osama/rajapakshe may only feel guilt, not pride. but not with the followers of atheism.

 

[Brahin]

Genesis of A Belief: A New Temple and A God For a Small New Village

Place: Near Ramanathapuram Town; Name of the Village: Puthupatti

About 200 villagers gathered and talked about how to make the new village more prosperous.

A man with a beard said, "Fellows, you see we don't have our own temple; we always go to the next town to worship God... why not build our own here... I know Vedas and Puranas... I will teach you every thing".

"Oh Swamiji, we like you, yes... we need our own God and our own Temple.. we must grow more prosperous... what should we do?" villagers yelled.

"Okay.. give me some money from each family.. I will first make a God from stone...WE will convert the Stone into a God with serious poojas, and then we will erect a small hut over it - voila we will have a small Temple; I will run the Temple, and you pay me with your offerings.." Swamiji elaborated.

He bought a huge Stone and asked a low end laborer to chisel it in the form of Lord Rama! He painted it in black and put some garland called it God Rama.

A new hut was erected over the Lord and a new Temple came into being..

Villagers were very happy... they paid the Swamiji well in the form of offerings to the Lord Rama! There were prayers, poojas and so many festivals around the new Temple. Villagers and the Swamiji were having a gala time in all....until..

Suddenly, the monsoon failed... many villagers went to the near by sea for fishing to make a living... they failed. All the special poojas and prayers to Lord Rama all day and night did not give any relief.. weeks turned to months.. a year later,

Villagers asked Swamiji, "Yow..what's happening to our God.. is he just a Stone ?... our lives became so bad AFTER this God came to our Village? What's going on here?"

"Oh people, you don't call me Swamiji any longer these day, you call me a just Yow...what did I do wrong?"

They all yelled, "You.. brought this Stone, and cheated us as God... Is it fair to you, the bogus Godman.... Yaen intha Kadavul Kallaanaan Ya?"

There came a well educated Dr. Intellectual and asked the villagers, "You people, prove to ME that this Stone is a Stone and not a Kadavul".

The Villagers all turned around picked up stones and stoned him to death!

Swamiji just ran away from the Village!! What's the moral of the story? Guess....

YamakaJi,

There is a part 2 to that story.After the intellectual died,villagers realized that they doubted their Guruji and also doubted God and thought He is only stone.
So they called back the Swamiji and all lived happily ever after and God blessed the village.

Moral of the story is : Steady the intellect or stone anyone acting smart!!!

 

[C RAVI]

What's called FEAR? What's called Superstition? What's called Logic here?

Sri Yamaka,

Very good question. I always admire your consistency, presence of mind and reasoning/questioning.

"kallai Mattum Kandal Kadavul Theriyadhu Kadavul Mattum Kandaal Kalladi Theriyadhu - From Dasa Avataaram"

Based on this, your questions are very interesting to debate.

Here is my opinion, sticking to the above lines and the purpose of the line of the song in that movie.

Here the FEAR is - "Oh God, I should not be miss leaded by thoughts, actions and intentions of negative humans/elements. My belief on your symbolic (stone) appearance in front of me, is pure and I believe on your mercy upon me. Forgive me of my wrong doings if any without my knowledge and protect me.

Here the SUPERSTITION is - Oh God, "I want" to make every single human in my social circle/world, a theist.

Here the LOGIC is - Oh God, I could, gradually, with your grace upon me, could understand that, you have our own "Leela" to refine souls. OH God, you are omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, You know what, when and how things to carry out. No human logic, theories, formula can understand/answer/counter debate your celestial rules.


Oh God! With my realization about you, I would conclude that - With my Fear (to never been miss leaded), with my superstition (that "I want" to make all a theist for their own good) and with my understanding of mere human logic and your celestial rules , I could understand that- my belief on you and my obedience towards you, for sure would not make me realize that people are stoning me to death, would not make me feel the pain and would not make me go away from my righteous path and belief.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

The athiests in this forum found the first post of this thread silly and even I agree to that. But I am sorry to say that the Genesis given by one of the athiests (Yamaha) is even sillier. Hope neither touches the superlative. Come on guys, think better and come with realistic and convincing stories.

 

[Yamaka]

The athiests in this forum found the first post of this thread silly and even I agree to that. But I am sorry to say that the Genesis given by one of the athiests (Yamaha) is even sillier. Hope neither touches the superlative. Come on guys, think better and come with realistic and convincing stories.

Dear Haridasa, Brahin and Ravi:

I talked to Puthupatti residents, and here's what they anguish about -

"Vannkam Samihala; this fella Yamak told us you have lots of questions and answers for our wretched life in this New Village..

Samihala... we also Believe in God like you do.. the difference is you all are "Broadband Connected" upper caste people, living in pomp and prestige... Naanga, ordinary people Samy... we make less than Rs.150 per day Samy... there are about 800 million people in our country, all Believers with Bhakthi in our hearts; we do poojas to this Kadhavul... we ask HIM just to make our lives little better Samy...

Yaen Samy, this Kadhavul is not listening to our cries? Whereas HE gives you all so much?

The Swamiji keeps telling us that the Kadhavul is ALL Merciful.. All Knowing...Omnipotent and all that... he says he reads Vedas and Puranas everyday for us...

Yaen Samy, this Kadhavul is this discriminatory? He makes the poor Believers poorer and rich Believers like you richer... Yenna Neethi Ithu Samihala?

We got angry with Dr. Intellectual because he knows we all have only Faith or Belief in God, he asked us to prove that Belief, Samihala!

Okay, stoning him to death is wrong... he is Dr. Intellectual after all... Samihala, we all are in deep pain that we lost our livelihood and are in hunger... how do you expect us to prove anything, tell us?

The facts are, we are ALL Believers... we also worship regularly... our hearts also brim with Bhakti like you do... but you are rewarded sumptuously, and we are locked inside the Gates of Hell... Enna Neethi Samihala?

Neenga... think a bit for us... Is this called Janma Poorva Karma? Yaen Sami, Intha Kadavul Engalae Padachan? To suffer to beg and perish like this....?"

"Yaen, Kadavul Kallaanaan?"

 

[ShivKC]

though, its not my cup of tea, to post such meaningless irrelevant imaginative things, the only way i thought is to counter it with a similar things, so that members dont resort to such kind of tricks any more... I just replaced few words god,pujari,temple with EVR,Kazhagam... here i go..

Genesis of A Belief: A New Temple and A God For a Small New Village

Genesis of An un-Belief: A New Kazhagam and An EVR For a Small New Village


Place: Near Ramanathapuram Town; Name of the Village: Puthupatti

About 200 villagers gathered and talked about how to make the new village more prosperous.

A man with a WHITE LONG beard called EVR said, "Fellows, you see we have a of our own; we also go to the next town to worship God. what is the use.. why not demolish them... I know Vedas and Puranas but all waste... I will teach you every thing new, to make you prosperous.

"Oh Periyar, we like you, yes... we need you as God and we will build Kazhagam buildings.. we must grow more prosperous... what should we do?" villagers yelled.

"Okay.. give me some money, and pay entry free for all my meetings, from each family.. I will first make a deny God...WE will convert the Stone into a statue of mine adorned with poo Malai's, and then we will erect a small shed over it - voila we will have a small kazhagam; I will run the kazhagam, and you pay me with your donations.." EVR elaborated.

He asked all the low end laborer to thrash out all the forms of Lord Rama! He painted it with Tar and put some slippers and called it poor God....

A new kazhagam building was erected all over the Temple, and it came into being..

Villagers were very happy... they paid the EVR well in the form of offerings to the kazhagam! There were Podu Kootams, public meetings with loud speaker and so many happenings around the kazhagam building. Villagers and EVR were having a gala time in all....until..

30 years later, suddenly the monsoon failed and there was no food for villagers to eat.. malaria/typhoid was commin. many villagers went to the near by sea for fishing to make a living... they failed. all hue n cry. EVR was not there. they have no one to console when their near and loved ones died. there were no temples around to solace, as EVR has already convinced the villagers to demolish the one they had.. weeks turned to months.. a year later..

Villagers asked EVR, "Yow..why did you threw slippers on our God ?... our lives became so bad AFTER that incident in our Village? we lost our peace! What's going on here?"

"Oh people, you don't call me EVR any longer these day, you call me a just Yow...what did I do wrong?" I married a child, i admit..even I am confused, if i am doing wrong by marrying this young girl, but I think its right.

They all yelled, "You.. brought this kazhagam, and cheated us ... Is it fair to you, the bogus Atheist man.... Yaen intha Kazaga Thalaivan Kallaanaan Ya?"ஏன் இந்த கழக தலைவன் (பெரியார் ) கல்லானான் (சிலை ஆனான்) ??? கல்லாய் போன மனித .....

There came a well educated Dr. Intellectual and asked the villagers, "You people, prove to ME that this Stone is a Stone and not a Kadavul".

The Villagers all turned around picked up stones and stoned them to death!

that time,ERV was not alive to see the plight of this village, !! What's the moral of the story? Guess...nothing


Moral of the story is: Do not use this kind of silly analogy or imagination midst of serious debates. history easily gets repeated.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Haridasa, Brahin and Ravi:

I talked to Puthupatti residents, and here's what they anguish about -

"Vannkam Samihala; this fella Yamak told us you have lots of questions and answers for our wretched life in this New Village..

Samihala... we also Believe in God like you do.. the difference is you all are "Broadband Connected" upper caste people, living in pomp and prestige... Naanga, ordinary people Samy... we make less than Rs.150 per day Samy... there are about 800 million people in our country, all Believers with Bhakthi in our hearts; we do poojas to this Kadhavul... we ask HIM just to make our lives little better Samy...

Yaen Samy, this Kadhavul is not listening to our cries? Whereas HE gives you all so much?

The Swamiji keeps telling us that the Kadhavul is ALL Merciful.. All Knowing...Omnipotent and all that... he says he reads Vedas and Puranas everyday for us...

Yaen Samy, this Kadhavul is this discriminatory? He makes the poor Believers poorer and rich Believers like you richer... Yenna Neethi Ithu Samihala?

We got angry with Dr. Intellectual because he knows we all have only Faith or Belief in God, he asked us to prove that Belief, Samihala!

Okay, stoning him to death is wrong... he is Dr. Intellectual after all... Samihala, we all are in deep pain that we lost our livelihood and are in hunger... how do you expect us to prove anything, tell us?

The facts are, we are ALL Believers... we also worship regularly... our hearts also brim with Bhakti like you do... but you are rewarded sumptuously, and we are locked inside the Gates of Hell... Enna Neethi Samihala?

Neenga... think a bit for us... Is this called Janma Poorva Karma? Yaen Sami, Intha Kadavul Engalae Padachan? To suffer to beg and perish like this....?"

"Yaen, Kadavul Kallaanaan?"

Shri Yamaka,

Thank you for sharing their peice of information. The greif of sufferes. May God bless them with peace.

Shri Yamaka,

Please make a note that if atheist becomes theist or theist becomes atheist, none of their destiney gonna change.

As I expressed in my previous post, praying God, bribing God by some ignorant and questioning God for one's poverty are all due to one's wish to have a better survival. Every one of us wants something better. Once something better achieved, we wish for some other thing better to happen also. When that also be showered by God, we will have another aim and ambitions and again pray god to fulfill this ambition too. If not answered, we may ask God - Oh God! What is this? You answered, you blessed me and made me achieve this much. Now having achieved, how can I make use of my achievement without fulfulling my other requirements (prestige, pomp and show or morey money to give higher education to a child, more money to marry off a daughter with a profession, in a well to do family, etc..etc). Oh God, now you are leaving me stranded. I am "a cat on a wall now". Why you put me in this shape now? What's the purpose of the gifts from you? Everything that you offered me now seems to zilch. Why are you so?


Shri Yamaka, what I mean to say is, many poor (as per their karma) brahmins, get into vedici, do all parayanams, reciting vedas, doing all services to God, are all doing so to have some descent survival. But since all are humans and all want to have their family (Wife and children) and want to fulfill each of the family member's wishes, end up complaining.

I am not saying they are wrong. That's the basic human tendency. We are all like that some way at some point of time.

Let us wish for their wellbeing, be humanist, have righteous thoughts and attitude and share what we have with them as and when possible.

May peace be apon all..

 

[renuka]

You know I just saw the movie Eeram some murder horror story and I didnt want to sleep right away and came online to check out whats in forum.
The story in this thread keeps getting better and better.
Keep it up guys.We can have our very own MEGAAAAAAAAAAAA Serial soon.

 

[tks]

Atheists who "logically became so", are mostly in the same state where I almost went during my college years. I was citing such paradoxes. I was stubborn in asking Who created God? And the one fine day I came across a well organized mathematical book that showed these are paradoxes because they are presented the wrong way. It challenged my conventional way of thinking purely from a mathematical basis. I began to question what is logic, what does it mean by true and false, what about the assumptions made in taking either a true or false direction. It took a few months actually for me to digest the fact that I have all along been a diehard fan of a rather primitive mathematical trick called binary logic. There is no reason why the default state in a logic has to be False. That assumption has been used for mainly the convenience of electronics. It should not be used to limit our analytical abilities. I went on to study other logic frameworks. Some are constructed in a very excellent manner. The binary logic became a subset of other logic systems and a paradox represented in (T,F) had to become (T,F,X,Y) type states where recursive application would result in (T,F,X,Y,F,T,Y,X...) type extensions but not the same (T,F) paradox.

More later, I have to cook for my mother!

DrBarani - Hope you cooked a nice meal

First, let me applaud the way you have taken multi-step logical analysis and are able to apply to this topic area, which is novel in my view. I am not sure how well versed you are with topics of Upanishads. Sri Sankara resolves many contradictions by using logic that is not binary. Those that are locked into a binary logic mindset can never understand these explanations and is even evidenced by many posts in this forum itself around confusions between Advita, VA, Duality etc.

Like Sri Nara suggested -perhaps sarcastically - there is a value in writing a scholarly paper. My suggestion is to write on interpretation of Sri Sankara's teaching by using multi-step logical framework. This will be novel. If you want to discuss this more or collaborate kindly send me a private mail (since most here do not care to listen to a dialog here on this area).

The concept of logical analysis beyond binary logic has been around for many years.

Fuzzy logic is used routinely in many electronic devices. For example many air conditioning circuits in a car to maintain a given temperature uses fuzzy logic to maintain a comfort level. In that sense such frameworks have had direct applications in technology that has touched our lives.

The baffling ideas of quantum mechanics cannot be explained away by binary logic. For example, the gedanken thought experiments involving the poor Shrodinger's cat in terms of it being dead or alive cannot be explained by binary logic.

I will share my thoughts on how one becomes an Atheist in a different post