God does exist

[Govinda]

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GLOBALLY there will always be a new year, deepavali, xmas and a ramadhan. These festives remind us of GOD's exhistance in the present day world.

PERSONALLY i like ISKCON, GOOD FRIDAY and EASTER, Carnatic music with a bit of telugu/tamil/hindi words, and the fasting month of RAMADAN.

In the real world, i should be trying to solve problems at work, family, society (which will include this TAMILBRAHMIN.COM, temple, FACEBOOK) and sports.

To Sandhyav,

You are seemingly confused and naive. You should start approaching a right step to understanding things!

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

AFAIK the śrāddha is not a vedic injunction; it gets its support from the puranas and the Dharmasastras, mainly. It is very difficult to justify the idea of śrāddha (offering three balls of rice in the homa fire to the three paternal ancestors and feeding two brahmins will satisfy the three dead ancestors, in whichever world they may be) and the concept of rebirth or punarjanma which found its way into hindu religious thoughts in a subsequent period. Nobody dared to question this contradiction; although the Matsyapurana takes up this question, it tries to justify the practice of śrāddha in a round about way. In Viswarupa's commentary on Yajnavalkyasmriti (as per Dr. P.V. Kane's, the history of Dharmasastras) also takes up this question and gives justifying answers of several kinds.

But I fail to see how pardoning Sunjuy Dutt will be a parihAram - for whose karmas and how? Also, Sunil Dutt was a mohyal and not a brahmin; mohyals excommunicate anyone from their ethnic group taking up priestly activity. (see Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Sunjuy was born to a muslim mother and so your claim to his brahmin status is not at all valid, imo.

Dear Sangom ji,

What I meant is if Shardda or Pariharam can wipe out or lessen Karmic burden that Sanjay Dutt should be able to be pardoned by "pariharams" in the name of the higher authorities which have the power to pardon him for his offence.

What I was trying to say is..if we can get away with Karma by offering some oblations..then why do we even need the jurisdiction/court etc?

When being in earth itself most of the times we can not escape the law..I find it really hard to believe that Karmic burden can be lightened by Shardda and Pariharams.

I feel Shardda and Pariharams to a certain extent contradict the law of Karma.

I remember one priest told me before that Shraddha is like asking Yama Dharmaraj to not to "torture" our ancestors as much.

Isn't that like a form of corruption practiced??

I somehow feel it is all man made just to lessen the economic burden of society.

I feel if anyone of us want to be Bad we should have the guts to be face the consequences of our action and be ready to land in hell after death if hell actually exists!LOL

 

[Govinda]

Shri tbs,

Even when an astrologer advises some parihaaram/s.....he is not sure of results.... only expense...physical strain...but some mental satisfaction...temporary, of course is obtained.... if the parihaaram proves useless and the bad thing happens to pass ... people blame their karma ....or say "god has willed otherwise", etc.,.........and find mental peace ultimately.......is it not?..........so, why not trust in the karma theory from the first itself?

Sangom Ji,

Post#70

You are very smart, you can even write in the same style as the reader

I sometimes take your claims, as challenges to our understanding on the basics of Vedic Philosophy.

The major aphorisms of Vedas/Upanishads are 'Ekam eva advitiyam', 'Sat alone existed in the beginning', 'Tat Tvam Asi' etc. These all make that
ONE Brahman as the single source of all creation, existence and dissolution.

If He is the Creator like Potter, Where did He seek the clay, tools water/elements, space etc. to form the variously formed Pots? HE alone Existed in the beginning, and hence unlike the Potter, His body (infinitesimal part ofit) itself became the space to behold this vast creation/Universe, He (with mind and power) willed to be the instrument to shape those elements. As all the subtle matter and the JivAs are minute fragments of His body, He efficiently shaped them according to their Karma sacrificing His own parts to shape them. [As in Purusha Suktam].

If Karma alone was the set law, and The Creator has no powers to redefine or relax them even in exceptional cases either at His own will or for the great causes of Emancipation/Liberation, then either He is ignorant or He is inadept about His own intelligent designs/constraints. Or the System (Karma or Quantum Laws) is more Powerful than Him.

Then, the Srutis' claim of that Supreme ONE Brahman with 6 speical Qualities of BhagavAn will become falsified. Plus, Karma will take a infinite regress, and noone will be able to overcome and the great mahAtmAs (not gandhi, but realized sages, saints, achryas, simple, honest people) we wouldn't have had in the history), nor see any such person existing today!

So, The right understanding should be that ' The Purusha, that Shaped this Universe/Creation after very many such cycles, is single-handedly capable of anything and everything. Karma is just a benchmark, a plumbline, like the laws of gravity and physical laws, to have a just, uniform, very intelligently designed legal system, inbuilt in every being and within every matter in the nature. But, the cries of GajendrA, draupadi, prahlAda, dhruvA were all heard and answered, He roared as Varaha to answer the prayers of His own powerful counterpart BhuDevi. He is as generous, merciful, as He is single handedly powerful! He cannot be excelled even in the best of auspicious qualities.'

So, as Andal promises in Her TiruppAvai, 'தாமோதரனை, தூயோம்ஆய் வந்துநாம் தூமலர் தூவித்தொழுது
வாயினால் பாடி மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்கப் போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும் தீயினில் தூசுஆகும் செப்பேலோ ரெம்பாவாய்.'

If you chant His name and meditate Him, all your past sins will be burnt. Becoming His true devotee, your mind will be
made clear, and may not encounter any future sins.

To Ashwin,

Sri Vishu Sahasranama, has clear descriptions in tune with the Upanishadic understanding of Brahman. Chanting the same stotram is like glorifying
the Supreme Lord Vishnu with the clear picture on His own nature and His reality and grabbing His feet alone can be the only
cause of deliverance from our, otherwise unconquerable Sins.

edit: the logical error on 'ekam eva na-dvitiyam'

 

[sangom]

Sangom Ji,

Post#70

You are very smart, you can even write in the same style as the reader

I sometimes take your claims, as challenges to our understanding on the basics of Vedic Philosophy.

The major aphorisms of Vedas/Upanishads are 'Ekam eva na-advitiyam', 'Sat alone existed in the beginning', 'Tat Tvam Asi' etc. These all make that
ONE Brahman as the single source of all creation, existence and dissolution.

Dear Shri Govindaji,

The vedic aphorism is "Ekam Eva adviteeyam" JFYI please. These vedic sayings seem to me to be based on human thoughts and understanding of those days when Man felt probably that for anything and everything there must be someone who "makes" that thing, just like the common example of clay pot and the potter, which we find very often in our scriptural discussions about philosophic ideas. Possibly the ancient Man did not bother much about the "egg or the chicken" conundrum, or, may be he (the ancient Man) decided in favour of either the egg or the chicken and this, he once again believed, was 'created' by his all-creator god.

The one Brahman of the "Ekam Eva Adviteeyam" variety of the Advaita type is perceived to be "nirguNa" (devoid of any and all characteristics) and so it is not possible for this Advaitic Brahman to create or do anything else except simply exist which is denoted by the the aphorism "Ekam Sat" or, one (alone) exists.

If He is the Creator like Potter, Where did He seek the clay, tools water/elements, space etc. to form the variously formed Pots? HE alone Existed in the beginning, and hence unlike the Potter, His body (infinitesimal part ofit) itself became the space to behold this vast creation/Universe, He (with mind and power) willed to be the instrument to shape those elements. As all the subtle matter and the JivAs are minute fragments of His body, He efficiently shaped them according to their Karma sacrificing His own parts to shape them. [As in Purusha Suktam].

I feel Purusha Suktam (PS) does not support the Potter-creator imagery of God because it (PS) says clearly that the sacrificial performance was done not by the "Potter-creator God" which, in this case, is the Purusha with thousand heads, thousand eyes and thousand feet, etc., but by the dEvas, sAdhyas and Rishis (yat puruShENa haviShA dEvA yajnam atanvata:, dEvA yad yajnam tanvAnA abadhnan puruSham paSum:,tEna dEvA ayajanta sAdhyA ruShayaSca yE). Here the purusha comes up as a sacrificial animal only.

If Karma alone was the set law, and The Creator has no powers to redefine or relax them even in exceptional cases either at His own will or for the great causes of Emancipation/Liberation, then either He is ignorant or He is inadept about His own intelligent designs/constraints. Or the System (Karma or Quantum Laws) is more Powerful than Him.

Then, the Srutis' claim of that Supreme ONE Brahman with 6 speical Qualities of BhagavAn will become falsified. Plus, Karma will take a infinite regress, and noone will be able to overcome and the great mahAtmAs (not gandhi, but realized sages, saints, achryas, simple, honest people) we wouldn't have had in the history), nor see any such person existing today!

So, The right understanding should be that ' The Purusha, that Shaped this Universe/Creation after very many such cycles, is single-handedly capable of anything and everything. Karma is just a benchmark, a plumbline, like the laws of gravity and physical laws, to have a just, uniform, very intelligently designed legal system, inbuilt in every being and within every matter in the nature. But, the cries of GajendrA, draupadi, prahlAda, dhruvA were all heard and answered, He roared as Varaha to answer the prayers of His own powerful counterpart BhuDevi. He is as generous, merciful, as He is single handedly powerful! He cannot be excelled even in the best of auspicious qualities.'

So, as Andal promises in Her TiruppAvai, 'தாமோதரனை, தூயோம்ஆய் வந்துநாம் தூமலர் தூவித்தொழுது
வாயினால் பாடி மனத்தினால் சிந்திக்கப் போய பிழையும் புகுதருவான் நின்றனவும் தீயினில் தூசுஆகும் செப்பேலோ ரெம்பாவாய்.'

If you chant His name and meditate Him, all your past sins will be burnt. Becoming His true devotee, your mind will be
made clear, and may not encounter any future sins.

The problem, Shri Govindaji, appears to me to be that we hindus have learnt many things in order to secure our livelihoods but, when it comes to religion, our thinking capacity has been ossified for thousands of years. We have been brainwashed into a firm belief in a creator god who is most often a male and only sometimes a female, and that creator god has all the ultimate powers to do anything, etc. We have not been able to think or question why, if such a creator god (CG) unnecessarily wastes his/her time to make so many people suffer in ever so many ways, all merely to end up finally as dust (Dust thou art and to dust thou returneth) or as ashes; is not such a CG at least a sadist? Anyway we don't see any one individual human being who has seen this CG nor any one person who can confidently say with you "My mind has become 100% pure and all my past sins have been burnt and I will not encounter any more sin in future". Hence, to my mind all these are cock-and-bull stories which gullibility has made extremely sacrosanct.

Today we know that there are several kinds of religious beliefs among humanity and all humans die; whether these people take rebirth, is not yet conclusively proved. Hence all that we have got clearly is that humans are born, all people lead lives which are a mixture of sufferings and happiness in varying proportions and no two humans have identical lives, not even identical twins. At the end of their lives all people die at varying ages (some in the womb itself and some others after more than a hundred years in this world) and that is the big END.

In this scenario a CG or any kind of god comes in only as a mascot of one religion or another and the ultimate benefit from this goes to those who run the religion as an enterprise. The dying man dies sometimes a very painful death even if he was a very pious and religious person chanting the name of god almost all the time and an illiterate farmer or fish vendor who has hardly any time for god, temple or the church, dies a calm and sudden death. But society immediately covers up the unpleasant fact of the very religious man dying a slow and painful death because religion and the religious dogmas have to be safeguarded. Having seen such occurrences and after thinking deeply about all such aspects only, I have come to the conclusion and belief that there is no CG or god other than the "thing" which manifests as life in our bodies, that all this universe is controlled by the law of karma (action & reaction) and that there is no power, CG or G which can alter the working of this law of Karma.

I can well understand your position; you have been fed on religion to such an extent that you are now incapable of thinking outside of those indoctrinations. I do not want you or anyone else to alter your views because it may even cause psychiatric problems for such persons. And, at the end of the show (i.e., this drama called life) all of us, brahmins, brahmin-bashers, christians, Muslims, all including the aborigines of New Guinea, will all disappear from the face of this earth and probably none will come back to tell what happens after death. All that we do including the imagining of a Vishnu, grabbing his imaginary feet or chanting his name incessantly, all this will not be of any help when the final moment comes and beckons to each one of us to vacate ourselves for ever from here, imho.

Of course, each one of us is free to don any costume and perform any comic which suits our taste while we are here, at the mercy of our past Karmas.

 

[sarang]

You must review your understanding of sanatanadharma - we derive our understanding of the basic philosophy, dharma, duties, tradition, belief and practices from all the sources - vedas, upanishads, vedangas, gita, itihasas, puranas, smritis and the words of acharyas/elders. Perhaps attending or listening to a few upanyasams will be of benefit.

There is no rule saying that what is not in vedas must not be done. No law promulgated must be anti vedic, that is all. This simple vidi, will help in getting rid of all your blocks. This argument - it is not in vedas is a bit sterile; one doesn't have to trace or link every activity, karma, or inactivity to vedas.

Dharnasastra rules can be amended by its followers, if they want, to suit desam and kalam.

This is not IMHO or AFAIK, but what I have learnt. So, if one family has been doing shraddam for ages with faith, devotion and respect following rules setup by one's great great ancestor, and the current incumbent does not want to do that, he is free to do so. Perhaps, in an earlier age, one's relatives would have sidelined him or even excommunicated him. Whether the pitrus are offended or angry is irrelevant to the individual who, anyway, has no faith.

There are many occasions when we act to pleas the other party. Well dressed in suits and kanchi pattu while attending weddings to show respect to the couple, black suit for the funerals (?), and so on.

There may be contradictions in sanatana dharma scriptures. Every sampradaya selects what is close to its heart and practice.

Smt. Renuka,

AFAIK the śrāddha is not a vedic injunction; it gets its support from the puranas and the Dharmasastras, mainly. It is very difficult to justify the idea of śrāddha (offering three balls of rice in the homa fire to the three paternal ancestors and feeding two brahmins will satisfy the three dead ancestors, in whichever world they may be) and the concept of rebirth or punarjanma which found its way into hindu religious thoughts in a subsequent period. Nobody dared to question this contradiction; although the Matsyapurana takes up this question, it tries to justify the practice of śrāddha in a round about way. In Viswarupa's commentary on Yajnavalkyasmriti (as per Dr. P.V. Kane's, the history of Dharmasastras) also takes up this question and gives justifying answers of several kinds.

But I fail to see how pardoning Sunjuy Dutt will be a parihAram - for whose karmas and how? Also, Sunil Dutt was a mohyal and not a brahmin; mohyals excommunicate anyone from their ethnic group taking up priestly activity. (see Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Sunjuy was born to a muslim mother and so your claim to his brahmin status is not at all valid, imo.

 

[sarang]

Sangomji,

You must thank your stars (jyotisham) or past good karma that has contributed to your birth in this punyabhoomi, and not in surrounding land or middle east. There 'wearing any costume' will neither be possible nor recommended.

Of course, each one of us is free to don any costume and perform any comic which suits our taste while we are here, at the mercy of our past Karmas.

 

[Govinda]

Dear Shri Govindaji, These vedic sayings seem to me to be based on human thoughts and understanding ...just like the common example of clay pot and the potter, which we find very often in our scriptural discussions about philosophic ideas. Possibly the ancient Man did not bother much about the "egg or the chicken" conundrum, ....

The Chicken and the Egg dilemma:

The example of Clay-pot and the Potter (of Vedic Scriptures) is a much deeper analogy than the 'Egg and the Chicken' conundrum of the West.

1. Former deals with the three causes of the RAW creation (or for that any gross material) like the POTS of variegated forms created from RAW clay. Secondly, it explains the Effect (Pot) as always a modification of the cause (Clay), thirdly, By knowing the nature of Clay, all its modifications(POTS) can be known. So, Potter is the maker in these cases. As, Brahman is the only Such Unique example which contains the original material, instrumental material, executing cause to shape the Universe(matter+jivas), as His own characteristics. Brahman is the Only SAT (being) that contains and executes everything within HIMSELF!!. There is no one single analogy like HIM. Even Potter has clay, water, tools, mold etc. as EXTERNAL Parts, so Potter example can only be a closer analogy (for our understanding) but not the real analogy. This has been clearly explained across various sutras/upanisahds.

2. Latter - Chicken didnt come from RAW elements, but from EGG, which is in itself a compound of RAW elements [what is the source for these elements?!]. That is why, the Egg-Chicken example always had a circular reference. It doesnt deal with the Original "MATERIAL"CAUSE. Then, who was the INSTRUMENTAL CAUSE for making the EGG from the Source materials?? Secondly, Chicken should reflect the Chicken Egg in nature obviously, but who 'EFFICIENTLY' CAUSED the egg to become the Chicken??? [other than the creator!] By knowing the DNA/RNA, you can know the various modifications (species), but Chicken EGG can tell you only the Chicken VikAram(modification).

Our Seers go to the ROOT of the problem! Change your stance for your own better self! VikArama/modification of any species, even us is due to our Karma, but Shaper was the Creator! Our VikAram had better intellect and consicousness, by following the shAstric injuction and understanding the nature of the Shaper/Creator, we are using our free-will to earn His mercy, for a better shape/VikAram for the future/next-life!

Plus, we have the examples of BrahmAndana, Hiranya-garbha, Purusha Yagna, BhUta-YOni in similar lines, but these eggs are a massive compound of all DNA/RNAs, not just the chicken egg.

 

[sangom]

Sangomji,

You must thank your stars (jyotisham) or past good karma that has contributed to your birth in this punyabhoomi, and not in surrounding land or middle east. There 'wearing any costume' will neither be possible nor recommended.

Shri sarangji,

According to my belief, each one of us is born here in accordance with the Karmas which each of us has accumulated and whose results have to be experienced during this particular birth. We are born accordingly in a country, state, village, family, parents, religion, caste and every conceivable coordinate. Hence, if I were to be born in the surrounding land or in the middle east, I believe that my costume would have been different and there is nothing to thank my stars in that; but may be the accumulated Karma, yes. It is all like which division of a particular class or standard one studies and this I, you etc., disappears as soon as this body becomes a "dead body" and the present costume also disappears, along with that character, once and for all.

It is because of the ignorance being spread by the religions that we humans are unable to think in any different ways.

I also don't think that "this" alone is a "punyabhoomi"; on the contrary, actual state of affairs will lead any impartial observer to say that south-east asia, including India is the "punishment bhoomi" because of the endemic poverty and all other related problems affecting this area —Gunnar Myrdal's The Asian Drama is still not irrelevant to this area. On the contrary, regions like the USA, West Europe etc., were and still are comfort zones in the world, but by importing many gurus, yoga and what not from our side, they seem to be vying for the "punishment bhoomi" status! Only the nordic regions appear less interested in this matter, but who knows - the collective karma of humanity may make the entire globe into one more or less strict reformatory with rigorous punishments !

 

[sangom]

The Chicken and the Egg dilemma:

The example of Clay-pot and the Potter (of Vedic Scriptures) is a much deeper analogy than the 'Egg and the Chicken' conundrum of the West.

1. Former deals with the three causes of the RAW creation (or for that any gross material) like the POTS of variegated forms created from RAW clay. Secondly, it explains the Effect (Pot) as always a modification of the cause (Clay), thirdly, By knowing the nature of Clay, all its modifications(POTS) can be known. So, Potter is the maker in these cases. As, Brahman is the only Such Unique example which contains the original material, instrumental material, executing cause to shape the Universe(matter+jivas), as His own characteristics. Brahman is the Only SAT (being) that contains and executes everything within HIMSELF!!. There is no one single analogy like HIM. Even Potter has clay, water, tools, mold etc. as EXTERNAL Parts, so Potter example can only be a closer analogy (for our understanding) but not the real analogy. This has been clearly explained across various sutras/upanisahds.

2. Latter - Chicken didnt come from RAW elements, but from EGG, which is in itself a compound of RAW elements [what is the source for these elements?!]. That is why, the Egg-Chicken example always had a circular reference. It doesnt deal with the Original "MATERIAL"CAUSE. Then, who was the INSTRUMENTAL CAUSE for making the EGG from the Source materials?? Secondly, Chicken should reflect the Chicken Egg in nature obviously, but who 'EFFICIENTLY' CAUSED the egg to become the Chicken??? [other than the creator!] By knowing the DNA/RNA, you can know the various modifications (species), but Chicken EGG can tell you only the Chicken VikAram(modification).

Our Seers go to the ROOT of the problem! Change your stance for your own better self! VikArama/modification of any species, even us is due to our Karma, but Shaper was the Creator! Our VikAram had better intellect and consicousness, by following the shAstric injuction and understanding the nature of the Shaper/Creator, we are using our free-will to earn His mercy, for a better shape/VikAram for the future/next-life!

Plus, we have the examples of BrahmAndana, Hiranya-garbha, Purusha Yagna, BhUta-YOni in similar lines, but these eggs are a massive compound of all DNA/RNAs, not just the chicken egg.

I do not know whether your writings reflect the Dwaitha philosophy or a mixture of advaita, visishtadvaita and dvaita. It looks very learned and heavy, indeed.

If one goes by strictly advaitic premises, the parabrahman just is; since it is completely nirguna it is axiomatic that that parabrahman is incapable of anything including creation. Yet, most people who expound on advaita have compromised themselves and taking Sankara as having accepted the concept of Iswara, etc., they follow dwaitham in their daily lives.

Hence, it will be difficult to agree to the creator-god concept from a purely and strictly advaitic pov.

When I gave the references to pot-potter and egg-chicken examples, I was only trying to say that in the former it is easy to see a "creator" and the "created", whereas, in the latter case it will be difficult to say which was created first, by the so-called creator-god.

Your words—

Our Seers go to the ROOT of the problem! Change your stance for your own better self! VikArama/modification of any species, even us is due to our Karma, but Shaper was the Creator! Our VikAram had better intellect and consicousness, by following the shAstric injuction and understanding the nature of the Shaper/Creator, we are using our free-will to earn His mercy, for a better shape/VikAram for the future/next-life!

Plus, we have the examples of BrahmAndana, Hiranya-garbha, Purusha Yagna, BhUta-YOni in similar lines, but these eggs are a massive compound of all DNA/RNAs, not just the chicken egg.

sound very impressive but are unconvincing. Your threat "Change your stance for your own better self!" sounds exactly like the old-world method of disciplining kids, at least to me.

Kindly tell me why none of us remembers our past births (at least the immediate past birth)?

BrahmANDa is of course an imaginary egg, and the word "brahma" there is essentially to denote its extremely large size, exactly similar to "brahma" which also signifies size or expansion. Hiranya garbha is actually the creator not an egg; because the creator was believed to have come out of a golden egg, he was called hiranya garbha. In course this applied to other supposed creators like Vishnu and also to the sun. How do you interpret the usual "Dakshina-taking" mantra of the priests which goes as under :—

हिरण्यगर्भ गर्भस्थम् हेमबीजम् विभावसोः ।
अनन्तपुण्य फलदम् अतः शान्तिम् प्रयच्छ मे ॥
(hiraṇyagarbha garbhastham hemabījam vibhāvasoḥ |
anantapuṇya phaladam ataḥ śāntim prayaccha me ||) ?

Your sentiment "we are using our free-will to earn His mercy" sounds identical to the underlying principle of Islam. I am unable to accept a creator god who will create humans just so that they will go on paying to that creator for his mercy. What sort of a god is that when even ordinary human beings no longer expect such scrounging from their children?

 

[sarang]

I am glad that you are born in this country and not in neighbouring pakistan or iran or bangladesh. Of course it is your prerogative to feel the way you do now.

Shri sarangji,

According to my belief, each one of us is born here in accordance with the Karmas which each of us has accumulated and whose results have to be experienced during this particular birth. We are born accordingly in a country, state, village, family, parents, religion, caste and every conceivable coordinate. Hence, if I were to be born in the surrounding land or in the middle east, I believe that my costume would have been different and there is nothing to thank my stars in that; but may be the accumulated Karma, yes. It is all like which division of a particular class or standard one studies and this I, you etc., disappears as soon as this body becomes a "dead body" and the present costume also disappears, along with that character, once and for all.

It is because of the ignorance being spread by the religions that we humans are unable to think in any different ways.

I also don't think that "this" alone is a "punyabhoomi"; on the contrary, actual state of affairs will lead any impartial observer to say that south-east asia, including India is the "punishment bhoomi" because of the endemic poverty and all other related problems affecting this area —Gunnar Myrdal's The Asian Drama is still not irrelevant to this area. On the contrary, regions like the USA, West Europe etc., were and still are comfort zones in the world, but by importing many gurus, yoga and what not from our side, they seem to be vying for the "punishment bhoomi" status! Only the nordic regions appear less interested in this matter, but who knows - the collective karma of humanity may make the entire globe into one more or less strict reformatory with rigorous punishments !

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Sir, IMHO God is love! God is Great!! Praise the Lord!!!

நமச்சிவாய வாஅழ்க நாதன் தாள் வாழ்க
இமைப்பொழுதும் என் நெஞ்சில் நீங்காதான் தாள் வாழ்க
கோகழி ஆண்ட குருமணி தன் தாள் வாழ்க
ஆகமம் ஆகிநின்று அண்ணிப்பான் தாள் வாழ்க
ஏகன் அநேகன் இறைவன் அடிவாழ்க

 

[Raghy]

Sir, IMHO God is love! God is Great!! Praise the Lord!!!

நமச்சிவாய வாஅழ்க நாதன் தாள் வாழ்க
இமைப்பொழுதும் என் நெஞ்சில் நீங்காதான் தாள் வாழ்க
கோகழி ஆண்ட குருமணி தன் தாள் வாழ்க
ஆகமம் ஆகிநின்று அண்ணிப்பான் தாள் வாழ்க
ஏகன் அநேகன் இறைவன் அடிவாழ்க

Love this song. Love the next lines too.... 'Eesanadi potri!... Endhai adi potri!...'

If possible, kindly post the full song, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[mskmoorthy]

Here is the website tiruvAcakam of mANikka vAcakar- part I (in tamil script, unicode format)
Another place is http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=8&Song_idField=8101 or http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/songview.php?thiru=8&Song_idField=8101&padhi=001

where Sri Vikrama has contributed in translating into Sanskrit
From that website,
1. சிவபுராணம்

(திருப்பெருந்துறையில் அருளியது
தற்சிறப்புப் பாயிரம்)

நமச்சிவாய வாஅழ்க நாதன் தாள் வாழ்க
இமைப்பொழுதும் என் நெஞ்சில் நீங்காதான் தாள் வாழ்க
கோகழி ஆண்ட குருமணிதன் தாள் வாழ்க
ஆகமம் ஆகிநின்று அண்ணிப்பான் தாள் வாழ்க
ஏகன் அநேகன் இறைவன் அடிவாழ்க 5

வேகம் கெடுத்தாண்ட வேந்தன் அடிவெல்க
பிறப்பறுக்கும் பிஞ்ஞகன்தன் பெய்கழல்கள் வெல்க
புறந்தார்க்குச் சேயோன் தன் பூங்கழல்கள் வெல்க
கரங்குவிவார் உள்மகிழும் கோன்கழல்கள் வெல்க
சிரம்குவிவார் ஓங்குவிக்கும் சீரோன் கழல் வெல்க 10

ஈசன் அடிபோற்றி எந்தை அடிபோற்றி
தேசன் அடிபோற்றி சிவன் சேவடி போற்றி
நேயத்தே நின்ற நிமலன் அடி போற்றி
மாயப் பிறப்பு அறுக்கும் மன்னன் அடி போற்றி
சீரார் பெருந்துறை நம் தேவன் அடி போற்றி 15
ஆராத இன்பம் அருளும் மலை போற்றி

சிவன் அவன் என்சிந்தையுள் நின்ற அதனால்
அவன் அருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கிச்
சிந்தை மகிழச் சிவ புராணம் தன்னை
முந்தை வினைமுழுதும் ஓய உரைப்பன் யான். 20

கண் நுதலான் தன்கருணைக் கண்காட்ட வந்து எய்தி
எண்ணுதற்கு எட்டா எழில் ஆர்கழல் இறைஞ்சி
விண் நிறைந்தும் மண் நிறைந்தும் மிக்காய், விளங்கு ஒளியாய்,
எண் இறந்த எல்லை இலாதானே நின் பெரும்சீர்
பொல்லா வினையேன் புகழுமாறு ஒன்று அறியேன் 25

புல்லாகிப் பூடாய்ப் புழுவாய் மரமாகிப்
பல் விருகமாகிப் பறவையாய்ப் பாம்பாகிக்
கல்லாய் மனிதராய்ப் பேயாய்க் கணங்களாய்
வல் அசுரர் ஆகி முனிவராய்த் தேவராய்ச்
செல்லாஅ நின்ற இத் தாவர சங்கமத்துள் 30

எல்லாப் பிறப்பும் பிறந்து இளைத்தேன், எம்பெருமான்
மெய்யே உன் பொன் அடிகள் கண்டு இன்று வீடு உற்றேன்
உய்ய என் உள்ளத்துள் ஓங்காரமாய் நின்ற
மெய்யா விமலா விடைப்பாகா வேதங்கள்
ஐயா எனவோங்கி ஆழ்ந்து அகன்ற நுண்ணியனே 35

வெய்யாய், தணியாய், இயமானனாம் விமலா
பொய் ஆயின எல்லாம் போய் அகல வந்தருளி
மெய் ஞானம் ஆகி மிளிர் கின்ற மெய்ச் சுடரே
எஞ்ஞானம் இல்லாதேன் இன்பப் பெருமானே
அஞ்ஞானம் தன்னை அகல்விக்கும் நல் அறிவே 40

ஆக்கம் அளவு இறுதி இல்லாய், அனைத்து உலகும்
ஆக்குவாய் காப்பாய் அழிப்பாய் அருள் தருவாய்
போக்குவாய் என்னைப் புகுவிப்பாய் நின் தொழும்பின்
நாற்றத்தின் நேரியாய், சேயாய், நணியானே
மாற்றம் மனம் கழிய நின்ற மறையோனே 45

கறந்த பால் கன்னலொடு நெய்கலந்தாற் போலச்
சிறந்தடியார் சிந்தனையுள் தேன்ஊறி நின்று
பிறந்த பிறப்பு அறுக்கும் எங்கள் பெருமான்
நிறங்கள் ஓர் ஐந்து உடையாய், விண்ணோர்கள் ஏத்த
மறைந்திருந்தாய், எம்பெருமான் வல்வினையேன் தன்னை 50

மறைந்திட மூடிய மாய இருளை
அறம்பாவம் என்னும் அரும் கயிற்றால் கட்டி
புறம்தோல் போர்த்து எங்கும் புழு அழுக்கு மூடி,
மலம் சோரும் ஒன்பது வாயில் குடிலை
மலங்கப் புலன் ஐந்தும் வஞ்சனையைச் செய்ய, 55

விலங்கு மனத்தால், விமலா உனக்கு
கலந்த அன்பாகிக் கசிந்து உள் உருகும்
நலம் தான் இலாத சிறியேற்கு நல்கி
நிலம் தன்மேல் வந்து அருளி நீள்கழல்கள் காட்டி,
நாயிற் கடையாய்க் கிடந்த அடியேற்குத் 60

தாயிற் சிறந்த தயா ஆன தத்துவனே
மாசற்ற சோதி மலர்ந்த மலர்ச்சுடரே
தேசனே தேன் ஆர்அமுதே சிவபுரானே
பாசமாம் பற்று அறுத்துப் பாரிக்கும் ஆரியனே
நேச அருள்புரிந்து நெஞ்சில் வஞ்சம் கெடப் 65

பேராது நின்ற பெருங்கருணைப் போராறே
ஆரா அமுதே அளவிலாப் பெம்மானே
ஓராதார் உள்ளத்து ஒளிக்கும் ஒளியானே
நீராய் உருக்கி என் ஆருயிராய் நின்றானே
இன்பமும் துன்பமும் இல்லானே உள்ளானே 70

அன்பருக்கு அன்பனே யாவையுமாய் இல்லையுமாய்
சோதியனே துன்னிருளே தோன்றாப் பெருமையனே
ஆதியனே அந்தம் நடுவாகி அல்லானே
ஈர்த்து என்னை ஆட்கொண்ட எந்தை பெருமானே
கூர்த்த மெய் ஞானத்தால் கொண்டு உணர்வார் தம்கருத்தில் 75

நோக்கரிய நோக்கே நுணுக்கரிய நுண் உணர்வே
போக்கும் வரவும் புணர்வும் இலாப் புண்ணியனே
காக்கும் என் காவலனே காண்பரிய பேர் ஒளியே
ஆற்றின்ப வெள்ளமே அத்தா மிக்காய் நின்ற
தோற்றச் சுடர் ஒளியாய்ச் சொல்லாத நுண் உணர்வாய் 80

மாற்றமாம் வையகத்தின் வெவ்வேறே வந்து அறிவாம்
தேற்றனே தேற்றத் தெளிவே என் சிந்தனை உள்
ஊற்றான உண்ணார் அமுதே உடையானே
வேற்று விகார விடக்கு உடம்பின் உள்கிடப்ப
ஆற்றேன் எம் ஐயா அரனே ஓ என்று என்று 85

போற்றிப் புகழ்ந்திருந்து பொய்கெட்டு மெய் ஆனார்
மீட்டு இங்கு வந்து வினைப்பிறவி சாராமே
கள்ளப் புலக்குரம்பைக் கட்டு அழிக்க வல்லானே
நள் இருளில் நட்டம் பயின்று ஆடும் நாதனே
தில்லை உள் கூத்தனே தென்பாண்டி நாட்டானே 90

அல்லல் பிறவி அறுப்பானே ஓ என்று
சொல்லற்கு அரியானைச் சொல்லித் திருவடிக்கீழ்
சொல்லிய பாட்டின் பொருள் உணர்ந்து சொல்லுவார்
செல்வர் சிவபுரத்தின் உள்ளார் சிவன் அடிக்கீழ்ப்
பல்லோரும் ஏத்தப் பணிந்து. 95

திருச்சிற்றம்பலம்

 

[V.Balasubramani]

God does exist.

Sir, There was a Brahmin in Bengal (1774-1833). He was one of the greatest reformer. He did many reforms. He was deeply versed in Indian thoughts and philosophy. He wanted to learn Holy books of most of the religion. He mastered Arabic, Parsian, Sanskrit to study all vedhas and English. He studied the Holy books and made a comparative study of all the religions prevailed all over the world. It was his belief that the philosophy of Vedanta was based on the principles of reason which was the final touching stone of truth in all doctrine. He preached that 'God is one'. He was Raja Ram Mohan Roy.

for more information:Raja Ram Mohan Roy (1774 - 1833 )

 

[Sastri]

god is brahmin.

god is love personified.

 

[SANDHYAV]

Thiruvasagathirku urugathar oruvasagathirukum urugathar, amazing poems (art) glorifying GOD.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof M S K Sir,

Your post brought this scene to my memory:

Shambho Mahadeva - Thiruvilayadal

 

[P.R.RADHAKRISHNAN]

Friends,

The existence of GOD is like an axiom. This is what Gandhiji said. It is self proved.

I find a good definition in SWETHASHWATHARA UPANISHAD, which I quote here :-" EKO DEVAH SARVA BHOOTHESHU GOODA, SARVA VYAAPEE SARVA BHOOTHAANDARAATHMA, KARMAADYAKSHA SARVA BHOOTHESHU VASAH SAAKSHEE CHETHO KEVALO NIRGUNASCHA".
This upanishad can be seen in BLACK YAJURVEDA known as KRISHNA YAJURVEDA. The meaning is very simple. There is only one GOD.
HE/SHE is ominipotent, omnipresent, lives in the ANTHARATHMA of every person, omniscient, but he is a witness to all our doings yet has no GUNA. One may call GOD by any name but there is only ONE GOD.You may call Him/HER as KRISHNA, NARAYANA, SHIVA, GANAPATHI,PARVATHY, AMBAL etc.


Regards and Namaskarams,

P.R. RADHAKRISHNAN

 

[Govinda]

Here is the website tiruvAcakam of mANikka vAcakar- part I (in tamil script, unicode format)

Sir, you may post in the Religion section or own blogs, so they are available for reading.

But, posting 'lenghty' poems in the General Discussion section, without highlighting the context for the thread, is distracting.

Pl. quote few important lines and explain your point against any opinion or view.

Thanks, Govinda.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Govinda Sir,

Many of our members can not read Tamil fonts. So they might be scrolling down when Tamil scripts appear!

Those who can read Tamil and believe in Lord Shiva can enjoy the poem. I posted a part of the poem which

appeared in a movie. It is the wish of the reader to listen to it or skip it.

 

[Govinda]

Dear Govinda Sir,

Many of our members can not read Tamil fonts. So they might be scrolling down when Tamil scripts appear!

Those who can read Tamil and believe in Lord Shiva can enjoy the poem. I posted a part of the poem which

appeared in a movie. It is the wish of the reader to listen to it or skip it.

A part of apeom, or few lines that can be used as a reference to instantiate a point or message is o.k.

Whether read or not , posting wall of poems on Vishnu or Siva's glory will not be beneficial, is my point!

 

[mskmoorthy]

Post #87 Sri Raghyji posted "If possible, kindly post the full song, please." (you can see that post link here http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11589-god-does-exist-9.html#post183550 )

In Post #88 I posted the whole song as per request - I have given the URL - But to ease the reader of one more click I posted the song in full.
( Ref: the link http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11589-god-does-exist-9.html#post183571 )

I apologize if I have violated some (neti)etiquette and sorry for the diversion.

 

[Raji Ram]

Post #87 Sri Raghyji posted "If possible, kindly post the full song, please." (you can see that post link here http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11589-god-does-exist-9.html#post183550 )

In Post #88 I posted the whole song as per request - I have given the URL - But to ease the reader of one more click I posted the song in full.
( Ref: the link http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/11589-god-does-exist-9.html#post183571 )

I apologize if I have violated some (neti)etiquette and sorry for the diversion.

Dear Prof. M S K Sir,

There is no such rule in our forum, as far as I know. Almost every thread deviates and goes in

many directions. Since you have given the correct explanation and posted it for the sake of

Raghy Sir, I don't think there is any need for you to apologize!

 

[Raji Ram]

A part of apeom, or few lines that can be used as a reference to instantiate a point or message is o.k.

Whether read or not , posting wall of poems on Vishnu or Siva's glory will not be beneficial, is my point!

Dear Govinda Sir,

IMHO, anyone's point need not be accepted by everyone in our forum.

As long as the post is not abusive or arrogant, it could be posted.

This poem was requested and hence posted and that is it!

 

[zebra16]

Dear Prof. M S K Sir,

There is no such rule in our forum, as far as I know. Almost every thread deviates and goes in

many directions. Since you have given the correct explanation and posted it for the sake of

Raghy Sir, I don't think there is any need for you to apologize!

Although i substantially agree with your point, my point of disagreement is only in respect of the part of the sentence given in italics and underlined.

My view is that like the slokA 'sarvadevaH namaskAraH keSavam pratigacChathi" all threads invariably levitate towards supposed brahmin attrocities on all other jAtis or varNAs etc. right from the dinosaur age.