First lesson in carnatic music

[renuka]

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Dear Renu,

Violin was brought into Carnatic music by some maestros. In fact, after listening to Sri. Lalgudi Jayaraman play on his violin,

the violin maestro Yahudi Menuhin was spell bound and could not believe that such 'gamakam's could be played on the violin.

He presented one violin to Sri. Lalgudi as an appreciation for his talent.

And this is for you - Yehudi Menuhin plays MOhanam!!

Lord Yehudi Menuhin and L Subramaniam

Dear RR Ji,

I am hearing this as I type..It is nice.

I appreciate both Carnatic and Western music(I am trained in western music).

But even in western music I like fast and catchy classical songs and not really like slow types.

Somehow slow types can not hold my attention.

To be frank till date I have not even listened to one single song of Sitar Maestro Ravi Shankar..I don't know why..I somehow prefer listening to electric guitar cos it give us a jolt.

 

[amala]

Desh Tillana-Lalgudi jayaraman - YouTube

my ultimate favourite raag desh thillana of LJ's

 

[amala]

The very western saxophone being played to CM tune by Shri Kadri. I like Venkatachala Nilayam, one my favourite Purandaradasar's composition but it does come on a bit strong on the sax!

Venkatachala Nilayam - Kadri Gopalnath Saxophone - YouTube

 

[sangom]

1. The differences between similar rAgams are there only by such restrictions. And these are known ONLY to refined singers!

We DO need the mELa rAgam to find the swarams that exist in its janya rAgams. All the janya rAgams of a mELa rAgam do not

have the same gamakams. There is an exception even to this. Almost all the janya rAgams of MAyAmALAvagowLa sound the

same and no special gamakams are present!

Smt Raji Ram,

Do you mean to say that all CM artistes go through the circuitous route ragam > janya or janaka? > find janaka (melakartha) raga from table/chart or from memory > aarohana + avarohana of the relevant melakartha raga > arrive at the swaras of the particular janya raga in question?

I am astounded!!

3. Have you not heard Chithoor Subramaniya Pillai and Madurai Somu, Sir?

I did not have many chances to listen to these two. But in my present collection also I find that they do not resort to this gimmick in every katcheri/disc. I am interested in knowing whether you feel these were the two people who were instrumental in bringing this, and what way it benefits audience?

 

[SANDHYAV]

Concierto de violín Paganini - YouTube

sitting violin can produce lumbar probs, standing violin can produce neck probs, if not done with adequate prep for spinal exercises.

 

[Raji Ram]

............ But even in western music I like fast and catchy classical songs and not really like slow types.

Somehow slow types can not hold my attention.........

Dear Renu,

Taste differs! My brother loves to listen to Sri. Madurai Mani Iyer for hours together. He listens to his concerts while going for

long drives too! We sisters like M M I, but not to his level! I enjoy listening to the slow songs of Sri. M. D. Ramanathan too but I

am sure you can't listen even for one full minute!!

P.S: I got a DVD of M M I songs (3.2 GB) and presented to my brother as a new year gift!

 

[Raji Ram]

The very western saxophone being played to CM tune by Shri Kadri.....

After listening to Kadri for the first time, critic Sri. Subbudu was so much overwhelmed that he wrote, 'யானை போன்ற வாத்தியத்தைப்

பூனை போல மாற்றிவிட்டார்!!'

I am also mention about the child prodigy Sri. U. Srinivas who has brought the tiny instrument mandolin to such a level in CM.

When he started his career, there were a few persons who said that he can never play the rAgam ThOdi on mandolin with the

classical flavour. But he soon played extensive ThOdi and proved them wrong. It is very true that 'Practice makes perfect'!

Sri.U.Srinivas-Mandolin-Kaddanuvariki-Thodi-Part-1

Sri.U.Srinivas-Mandolin-Kaddanuvariki-Thodi-Part-2

 

[Raji Ram]

....1. Do you mean to say that all CM artistes go through the circuitous route ragam > janya or janaka? > find janaka (melakartha) raga from table/chart or from memory > aarohana + avarohana of the relevant melakartha raga > arrive at the swaras of the particular janya raga in question?

2. I did not have many chances to listen to these two. But in my present collection also I find that they do not resort to this gimmick in every katcheri/disc. I am interested in knowing whether you feel these were the two people who were instrumental in bringing this, and what way it benefits audience?

Dear Sir,

The method of learning is like this. The name of the rAgam, whether it is janya / janaka rAgam, if janya, then derived from which

mELa rAgam, the ArO - avarO with anya swarams, if any! I was mentioning that if a new mELa rAgam is presented in a kuchEri,

then I can find only its number in the mELA chart and if the name does not come to my memory - sometimes water molecules

replace the brain cells when we get old - refer to the chart, later! Once upon a time, I knew all the 72 names! In a concert that

I heard recently, Sri. Balamuralikrishna, he presented a Thyagaraja krithi in 'KanakAngi' rAgam and I could identify very easily.

How can the very first rAgam be forgotten?


2. I have only heard about Chithoor Subramaniya Pillai's 'thALak kaNakku' from my appa. I have heard Sri. Somu's concerts a

few times in Pollachi Mariamman temple uthsavams. Hundreds of people used to throng the maidhAnam. All of them are not CM

rasikAs. So he used to reach to top 'Panchamam' - only for that note, claps will be spontaneous - even the more higher notes

will go unnoticed - in all the rAgams. Sing the 'jinjAmirtham' (from appa's vocabulary) swarams for the main songs. The thukkadA

section will be more than half of the concert, which sometimes will go up to midnight !

 

[Raji Ram]

Forgot to answer one more point. The present day KachEri pattern was established by Sri. Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar and till

date our artists are following it as far as possible. Abangs are the new additions in the concerts. The 'thAla kaNakku' used appear

only in R T P extensively. After the 'theermAnam's entered the end of swara prasthArams, people started liking the speedy

rendition. More and more 'kaNakku' entered the kuchEris. Kalki classified the audience as first class - those who enjoy the pure

form of CM; second class - those who enjoy only the songs and do not like delineation of rAgams and swarams and interclass -

those who clap when top 'Pa' is reached OR when all the percussion artist make all possible noise at the end of a long swaram!

I think Sri. Chithoor S Pillai and Sri. Somu were the forerunners for this style of singing. :drum:

 

[Raji Ram]

The audio level is too high in most of the sabhas. Hence this write-up!

இனிமையா? கொடுமையா?

நம் கர்னாடக இசையின் மேன்மையே, அது
நாம் இறைவனை அடையும் வழி என்பதே!

பக்தி ரசம் ததும்பும் பாடல்களைப் பாடுவது
முக்தி பெறும் எளிய மார்க்கம் என்றிடுவார்!

மேன்மையான இந்த வடிவ இசையைத் தர
மென்மையான ஒலிபெருக்கிகள் போதுமே!

செவிப்பறைகள் கிழியும் அளவு அதிகமான
ஒலிபரப்பை ஏன் பலரும் விரும்புகின்றார்?

சில சமயம் எனக்கு ஒரு ஐயம் எழும்! மிகச்
சிலர் மட்டுமே என்னைப்போல் இருப்பரோ?

காது கிழியும் ஓசையே பொறுக்காமல், என்
காதுகளில் பஞ்சு வைப்பதே என் வழக்கம்!

மிகவும் உயர்வான நிகழ்ச்சியென்று நேற்று
மிகவும் எதிர்பார்ப்புடன் நான் போனபோது,

பஞ்சை மறந்து சென்று, வருந்தி, அதன் பின்
கொஞ்சம் காதுகளை மூடிச் சமாளித்தேன்!

என்னை விநோதமாகப் பார்த்தவர் அறியார்
என்னைப் பீடிக்கும் அந்த 'மைக்ரேன்' பற்றி!

ஒன்று அறிந்தேன் நான்! எந்த நிகழ்ச்சிக்கும்
பஞ்சு உருண்டைகள் சகிதமே செல்லவேண்டும்!

 

[Raji Ram]

Many of the CM artists do not take proper care of their voices and deviate form 'sruthi' often!

The racy style of singing is entering like slow poison in the concerts. Here is my 'pulambal':

இது ஒரு தோஷம்தான்!

ஆதவன் சுட்டெரிக்கும் சிங்காரச் சென்னையில்,
ஆறுதல் தருவது மார்கழியின் குளிர் மட்டுமே!

இந்தக் காலம்தான் விடுமுறையும் வருவதால்,
எந்த மாதமும் இல்லாத இசை மழை பொழியும்!

இசைக் கலைஞர்கள் அவதிப்படுவர், தங்களை
இசைக்க விடாது தடுக்கும் ஜலதோஷத்தினால்!

சிறு இருமலும், ஒலிபெருக்கி வழியே மிரட்டும்;
சிறு கம்மலும், தொண்டையில் வந்து அரட்டும்!

கம்மலைக் காதுகளிலே அணிந்தால் மின்னும்!
கம்மல் தொண்டையில் வந்தால் என்னவாகும்?

சரீரத்தை அழகை மேம்படுத்துமளவு, இவர்கள்
சாரீரத்தை கவனிக்க விழையாதது கொடுமை!

எல்லொருக்கும் மின்னல் வேக ஸ்வரங்களை
எல்லாப் பாடல்களிலுமே பாடவும் வேண்டும்.

இப்படி ஆசை ஒன்றினை மனதில் கொண்டால்,
எப்படி அது சாத்தியமாகும், ஜலதோஷத்தோடு!

என் குருநாதரிடம் கற்ற ஒருவர் பாடும் பொழுது,
தன் ஸ்ருதி 'சற்றே விலகி இரும் பிள்ளாய்' என

அடம் பிடித்து விலகிப் போக, கவலையே இன்றி,
தடம் விலகிப் போன வண்டியைப் போலவே பாடி,

நல்ல மாலை வேளையையே கெடுத்துவிட்டார்!
நல்ல சரீரத்தைச் சீராக வைக்க மறக்கலாமோ?

கம்மல் சரீரத்துடன் மேடை ஏறுவதைத் தடுக்கக்
கட்டாயச் சட்டம் வந்தால் நன்றாய் இருக்குமோ?

:lock1:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Taste differs! My brother loves to listen to Sri. Madurai Mani Iyer for hours together. He listens to his concerts while going for

long drives too! We sisters like M M I, but not to his level! I enjoy listening to the slow songs of Sri. M. D. Ramanathan too but I

am sure you can't listen even for one full minute!!

P.S: I got a DVD of M M I songs (3.2 GB) and presented to my brother as a new year gift!

Dear RR Ji,

The only Carnatic Music Artist I really like is Prince Rama Varma.
I can listen to all his songs for hours.

There is a lot of difference I feel if the singer is singing for a living and a singer who is singing it out of love for music.

Prince Rama Varma sings out of passion and love for music.

I love his facial expressions when he sings.

 

[Raji Ram]

The sampoorna melakarta system has thrown up two beautiful ragas viz Harikambhodhi and Keeravani which are not found in the Asampoorana padhdhati followed by Dikshitar, who composed kritis only in Kambhodhi and KeeranavaLi. There may be some more new ragas that were created in the former system, upon which Madam Raji Ram can throw light. Thus Sampoorna melakarta system has been beneficial to CM.

Dear Sir,

Though practice only makes perfect, it is essential to learn grammar. The 'katapayAdhi mELa chakram' should be learnt

at least for its beauty! There is no doubt about it. I teach this chakram to all my students, once they learn a few rAgams.

I don't teach the preliminary lessons, anyway! If the student has some foundation and is able to learn and repeat what I

teach, she is selected! That is how I do it.


A few new vivAdhi mELa rAgams are coming into circulation and listeners are able to identify them - at least with the guide

that Sri. Nalli has given free with purchase of saree at his store!


Thyagaraja swami, Papanasam Sivan and pattaNam Subramaniya Iyer have composed very appealing songs in KeeravANi

and HarikAmboji. :thumb:

 

[raju14554]

Sir,
I have opened a concerned thread that why tamil lessons could not be introduced for the beginners for carnatic music. Pl read my post. My subsequent posts have not been published. But opinions on raga and other things have been received for this post.The site is itself tamilbrahmins and not allowing the subsequent posts of the original thread is not understood. I have not asked any questions on ragas composition etc. Moderator should see to it that the discussion is also going in right ways. Only one person has given a useful tamil site .

 

[amala]

Raji mami mandolin Srinivas is brilliant. I never miss any of his concerts if i can. Even here. Very humble and wonderful person on a personal level as well.

 

[Raji Ram]

The greatness of the mandolin maestro is that he does not dilute CM for the sake of the instrument but brings out the

beauty of classical carnatic music on this tiny instrument, by making a few alterations in the settings. :thumb:

 

[sangom]

Just to tell all interested members/readers that CM seems to be going down due to the importance now being given to the Melakartha scheme and the chakras, etc., I append below an extract from a blog :

"Purva prasiddha ragas like Kambhoji or Sankarabharanam should not be viewed in the context of the modern linearized krama arohana/avarohana regime which is the legacy of the Sangraha Cudamani or the Melakarta system designed sometime during the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] /19[SUP]th[/SUP] century. It’s indeed sad that today ragas are viewed as a mere aggregation of notes strictly defined by an arohana/avarohana. The concept of murcchanas and how they need to be sequenced to define a raga has now been lost in our music. Hindustani Music still has as its pivots those very concepts, with terminologies such as calans, pakads etc. The concepts underlying the structuring of these older ragas & the way of understanding them are best illustrated by Dr S Sita ³and by Sri K V Ramachandran⁶. I will quote them verbatim to substantiate my understanding. “…….The chaya or complexion of a raga is a sum total value of many aesthetic factors including the raga form. What is of real significance is not the actual number or quantity of svaras present either in the aroha or avaroha but how the respective svaras progress in their characteristic movement ( calana) gAnakriya in the raga involving arohana, avarohana and combination of both kramas. In this larger sense, the concept of arohana and avarohana is of very little significance. Essentially the nature of the tonal movement or behavior in the raga taken as a whole is the crucial factor."
(The Mystery about Kambhoji -Part 2 « guruguha.org)

 

[Raji Ram]

An interesting video by Sri. T. M. Krishna.

RASIKATVAM - TM Krishna

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... Violin was brought into Carnatic music by some maestros. In fact, after listening to Sri. Lalgudi Jayaraman play on his violin,

the violin maestro Yahudi Menuhin was spell bound and could not believe that such 'gamakam's could be played on the violin.

He presented one violin to Sri. Lalgudi as an appreciation for his talent. .........

A tribute to Legend Sri Lalgudi G Jayaramam

 

[Raji Ram]

There is a great difference between rendering rAgam is C M style and the way they are used in film music.

Sri. G. Ramanathan, Sri. M S V - Ramamoorthy and Sri. Iyalaraja were sticking to the tradition of the rAgams

as far as possible. But, after Mr. Rahman entered, all the rAgams have become 'Misra' in the sense that they

have many anya swarams added. Just for an example, here is a lovely love song set with ChArukEsi as base -

added to this is the 'shatsruthi Rishabam' to enhance the beauty - check out its first appearance in this video,

from 1m 12secs to 1m 14. (What a difference from the famous 'Manmatha leelayai' song!!)

Udhaya from Udhaya by Pragathi and Sathyaprakash The youngster Ms. Pragathi is just awesome! :clap2:


P.S: We can not do such changes in CM!! :nono:

 

[Raji Ram]

1. Maya malava koula raga is used in the basic lesson in carnatic music. Then one is taught, talas, degrees etc.etc.

2 And the first songs are usually in sanskrit or in telugu which could not be understand by this region.

3. Why not introduction of music lessons, like how the music comes, what are the nodes and all that be taught in the regional language as any other subject before attempting other languages. I have great regards for the classical music.

4. Instead of working out the theorem and then proving in actual circumstances in the mathematics, why the problems are given and then the solutions

Dear Sir,

1. The reason for choosing this rAgam is already given in post # 14.

2. I think you denote the Geethams as first songs. Most of them are composed by Sri. Purandara Dasa in his mother tongue

Kannada and also in Sanskrit. CM learners start with this foundation of swarams set by him and these Geethams. The short

compositions of Dheeshithar, in SankarAbharaNam - western style, are also taught. The Tamil Geethams composed by

Sri. Papanasam Sivan are taught in 'Papanasam Sivan Academy' only. (may be you missed to read this in my earlier post)

3. The swarams do not have language Sir! In Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam and Sanskrit, they are the same! A beginner

has to have a strong foundation of swarams for a good learning of CM, imho.

4. It is not a problem to learn the meaning of Geethams in Kannada / Sanskrit! In fact I have to tell the meaning of Tamil songs

to my students, even if their mother tongue is Tamil, because spoken Tamil is different from pure Tamil!

 

[raju14554]

Hi, Atleast I have received a concerned reply from rajiram. But regarding point no. 3 and 4, i have some say. The query is "give the problem first and then prove the answer by theorem or by solutions". In simple words, will it not be better if lessons, like what is cm, what is a, b, c of carnatic music and then the practical. I do know that swarams have no language barrier. But understanding of the meaning of songs always play a major role in giving the bhava for a song. If the meaning is known, then the song could be sung with known inter meaning. When i learnt i was given song in kannada or telegu , "EEE maguva nera jan". I did not know the meaning and sung as i was told. This is one example. But nowadays it is very heartening that youngsters do learn and sing in the languages in which the regional rasikas would love the song. Thanks for the reply and if some more tips could be given then this thread will be useful for all to read

 

[Raji Ram]

Student will ask me: 'Ma'am! Please give the meaning of this Tamil song in spoken Tamil'!


I like the fast portions in the compositions of Dheekshithar and OoththukAdu. I think the end portion of Sri. Swathi Thirunal's

'BOgeendra sAyinam' was set in fast tempo to enhance the beauty of the song, though Alathoor brothers used to render it in

medium speed only! I love the lyrics in 'பால் வடியும் முகம்' composed by OoththukkAdu. I have to explain the meaning in

spoken Tamil to my students!!


"கருத்த குழலொடு நிறத்த மயிலிறகிறுக்கி அமைத்த திறத்திலே

கான மயிலாடும் மோனக் குயில் பாடும் நீல நதியோடும் வனத்திலே

குழல் முதல் எழிலிசை குழைய வரும் இசையில் குழலொடு மிளிர் இளங் கரத்திலே

கதிரும் மதியும் என நயன விழிகளது நளினமான சலனத்திலே

காளிங்கன் சிரத்திலே கதித்த பதத்திலே என் மனத்தை இருத்தி

கனவு நனவினொடு பிறவி பிறவிதொறும் கனிந்துருக வரம் தருக பரங்கருணை (பால் வடியும் முகம்)"

 

[Raji Ram]

..........The site is itself tamilbrahmins and not allowing the subsequent posts of the original thread is not understood. I have not asked any questions on ragas composition etc. Moderator should see to it that the discussion is also going in right ways. Only one person has given a useful tamil site .

Dear Sir,

There will be several twists in almost all the threads in our forum. So there is nothing to worry about. If only the OP is answered,

there will be hardly ten replies. Please be happy that we discuss only MUSIC and nothing else!!

 

[SANDHYAV]

Sir,
I have opened a concerned thread that why tamil lessons could not be introduced for the beginners for carnatic music. Pl read my post.

CM is centered around Thyagaraja and chennai being the business hub, cant do away with telugu. i know a keyboard teacher, who is also trained in CM, just teaching his students some notes and starts with a simple tamil film song from SATTENDRU MARUDU VANILYE PENNEY NEE PIZHAI. i am sure if you identify a good demand from a group of say 50 students then u will find a teacher, who can tailor the course for you.