Shri. Nara,
If I may be allowed to give my opinion on some of your points,
Honestly, professor,you have to do better than this. A feeling of superiority does not amount to discrimination. If Harvard University says they are the best does it mean they think all other universities are useless. The Indian cricket coach said yesterday "Not for nothing we are the number one team in the world". Does it mean he is discriminating against the South African team. The brahmins, especially the tambrahms took a justified pride in their achievements because they once dominated the engineering, accounting and administrative fields and they did it well. I have also seen the self-deprecating attitude of brahmins who called themselves "thair sadam" because they knew they were pretty useless in business and good enough only to serve others. There were a host of other jobs the brahmins were totally useless in -the blue collared jobs like carpentry, electrical or plumbing. About 30-35 years back one could find very good carpenters, electricians or plumbers who were excellent. I remember an incident where once a plumber who came in to fix something saw my grandpa doing Sandhya and jokingly remarked "இந்த பூஜையெல்லாம் சரி ஐயரே, இந்த கொழாவே ஒன்னாலே சரி பண்ண முடியுமா". Can I say the plumber had a derogatory view of the pooja and had a discriminatory view of the brahmins. You cannot equate a sense of achievement and pride in what they do with discrimination.
Today I saw a NDTV video where a Dalit woman was getting beaten up by a police inspector. Suppose I go and tell the Dalit woman that it is Manu's document which is making the inspector beat her, is it going to make her feel much better or give comfort to the inspector that Manu himself has authorized these things. Can't we start concentrating on how to actually stop these things from happening rather than blaming the poor guy Manu and his document?
I see no harm in taking care of your community's interests. If every community does it, then everyone can thrive. The modern day world is just an extension of this where a country takes care of its citizens first, an employer takes care of his employees first, a school takes care of its pupils first and so on. I always feel the discrimination in the mind is what you need to address first and not the seemingly outward symbols of discrimination. There is enough literature available which says that caste-ism promoted a strong sense of identity and achievement within the members of that community. It has become a much abused system now just like the political system, media, police or the judiciary.
Good luck to you and your feelings about youngsters. We need to go with the flow. Anything which creates harmony and peace has to be encouraged. My only complaint is "Are brahmins the only or the major reason for these ills?".
Even in my Kollu thattha and patti generation I found no discrimination against the non-brahmin servants of the household. Due to rules of madi and aacharam, certain things were not allowed. But these applied equally to me as well in those times. Honestly, I don't know what you consider as discrimination. We have a Christian housemaid who does everything other than entering our pooja room. We don't allow her inside the pooja room because she eats non-veg in her house. She does help my wife sometimes in cooking. This may seem like discrimination to you but to me it is not because I am doing this as some of her practices does not suit us. We don't insult her or treat her inhumanely. We helped her with her son's education. If you call me a hypocrite, I may agree but not discriminatory.
To each his own. I feel you have a visceral loathing for brahmins.
I quite agree with Hari on this. Statistically, Hindus are a huge majority but India has to retain its Hinduness as emphasized by Annie Besant to work as a country just like America's uniqueness comes from its Christian majority or the Gulf countries should retain its Islamic identities. In other words, every country should retain its original identity which came with the culture, traditions and customs of its majority population. It is more so with India as this is the last bastion for the Hindus and its culture. But the solution to conversion lies with the Hindus themselves. They have to retain their Hinduness to keep the other threats at bay.
It is funny that the Christians (West) and the Moslems (Mughals) who were responsible for the destruction of most of the native cultures and traditions throughout the world ruled India for almost 1000 years but still could not subjugate it completely. One reason given by a lot of Western Indologists as well as Indians was the existence of the caste system. The caste system as it existed and understood in those times gave a strong sense of identity and achievement to the members that it was difficult to actually convert them to other religions. Refer to this link on a book written by Lall who says that the caste system was one reason which stopped the Islamisation of India.
Chapter 6 - Factors which Checked Islamization of India
I think the reason why these lower castes are targeted by conversions is the atrocities perpetrated in the name of caste by goons from other castes. I think it is the economic status and not caste which is making them a ripe target for conversions.
Thanks
If I may be allowed to give my opinion on some of your points,
Come on Hari, which planet are you living in?Most brahmins I have come across think of themselves as gift to humanity from the heavens. They think they are the smartest people in India. They think their culture is more refined. When Jamadagnya poured some of his filth there were many here openly congratulating him for saying things that perhaps they felt shy to admit in the open.
Honestly, professor,you have to do better than this. A feeling of superiority does not amount to discrimination. If Harvard University says they are the best does it mean they think all other universities are useless. The Indian cricket coach said yesterday "Not for nothing we are the number one team in the world". Does it mean he is discriminating against the South African team. The brahmins, especially the tambrahms took a justified pride in their achievements because they once dominated the engineering, accounting and administrative fields and they did it well. I have also seen the self-deprecating attitude of brahmins who called themselves "thair sadam" because they knew they were pretty useless in business and good enough only to serve others. There were a host of other jobs the brahmins were totally useless in -the blue collared jobs like carpentry, electrical or plumbing. About 30-35 years back one could find very good carpenters, electricians or plumbers who were excellent. I remember an incident where once a plumber who came in to fix something saw my grandpa doing Sandhya and jokingly remarked "இந்த பூஜையெல்லாம் சரி ஐயரே, இந்த கொழாவே ஒன்னாலே சரி பண்ண முடியுமா". Can I say the plumber had a derogatory view of the pooja and had a discriminatory view of the brahmins. You cannot equate a sense of achievement and pride in what they do with discrimination.
Today I saw a NDTV video where a Dalit woman was getting beaten up by a police inspector. Suppose I go and tell the Dalit woman that it is Manu's document which is making the inspector beat her, is it going to make her feel much better or give comfort to the inspector that Manu himself has authorized these things. Can't we start concentrating on how to actually stop these things from happening rather than blaming the poor guy Manu and his document?
I see no harm in taking care of your community's interests. If every community does it, then everyone can thrive. The modern day world is just an extension of this where a country takes care of its citizens first, an employer takes care of his employees first, a school takes care of its pupils first and so on. I always feel the discrimination in the mind is what you need to address first and not the seemingly outward symbols of discrimination. There is enough literature available which says that caste-ism promoted a strong sense of identity and achievement within the members of that community. It has become a much abused system now just like the political system, media, police or the judiciary.
Good luck to you and your feelings about youngsters. We need to go with the flow. Anything which creates harmony and peace has to be encouraged. My only complaint is "Are brahmins the only or the major reason for these ills?".
Even in my Kollu thattha and patti generation I found no discrimination against the non-brahmin servants of the household. Due to rules of madi and aacharam, certain things were not allowed. But these applied equally to me as well in those times. Honestly, I don't know what you consider as discrimination. We have a Christian housemaid who does everything other than entering our pooja room. We don't allow her inside the pooja room because she eats non-veg in her house. She does help my wife sometimes in cooking. This may seem like discrimination to you but to me it is not because I am doing this as some of her practices does not suit us. We don't insult her or treat her inhumanely. We helped her with her son's education. If you call me a hypocrite, I may agree but not discriminatory.
To each his own. I feel you have a visceral loathing for brahmins.
I quite agree with Hari on this. Statistically, Hindus are a huge majority but India has to retain its Hinduness as emphasized by Annie Besant to work as a country just like America's uniqueness comes from its Christian majority or the Gulf countries should retain its Islamic identities. In other words, every country should retain its original identity which came with the culture, traditions and customs of its majority population. It is more so with India as this is the last bastion for the Hindus and its culture. But the solution to conversion lies with the Hindus themselves. They have to retain their Hinduness to keep the other threats at bay.
It is funny that the Christians (West) and the Moslems (Mughals) who were responsible for the destruction of most of the native cultures and traditions throughout the world ruled India for almost 1000 years but still could not subjugate it completely. One reason given by a lot of Western Indologists as well as Indians was the existence of the caste system. The caste system as it existed and understood in those times gave a strong sense of identity and achievement to the members that it was difficult to actually convert them to other religions. Refer to this link on a book written by Lall who says that the caste system was one reason which stopped the Islamisation of India.
Chapter 6 - Factors which Checked Islamization of India
I think the reason why these lower castes are targeted by conversions is the atrocities perpetrated in the name of caste by goons from other castes. I think it is the economic status and not caste which is making them a ripe target for conversions.
Thanks
