Do we follow some norms and ethics in this forum

[happyhindu]

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While Shri Sangom replies to you...a few inputs reg the point in bold:

1) What has your subscribing to Gandhiji got to do with others digging into past scriptures?

2) Historians do seem to know when the dharmashastras were written.

3) Why do you need to feel embarassed? The ones who need to feel embarassed for propagating untouchability rubbish in this day and age are the ones who practice it (that is, the folks of mutts and some priests).

4) I do not understand what has the muslim sharia, your personal stand of non-discrimination or christians considering the earth being flat got to do with the question of untouchability.

5) Yes you can "always be suspicious about the missionaries and their unethical activities". However, that has nothing to do with some priests and mutts openly propagating untouchability.

Sangom Sir,

Please read the statement of Mahatma Gandhi care fully. He clearly says he will not accept any scripture if it is against moral and ethical values.

Personally I also subscribe to Mahatma Gandhi's view which I have decalared in the forum long back.

In spite of it, some people here are digging into the past scriptures which none of us know when it was written and try to embarrass us again and again.

When the Constitution of India was accepted in 1950, it became the accepted civil code for all the citizens of India irrespective of their personal faith.

Muslim sharia t law doesn't prescribe compensation for divorced women. But Supreme Court ruled that every divorced Muslim woman is eligible for compensation from his erstwhile husband. In fact Supreme court has directed the Government of India to enact a uniform civil code for all the citizens of the country which the Government is delaying for obvious reasons.

Bible says world is flat

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

Is the Government of India or any other state Government asking Christians to amend the above sentence in Bible to continue their faith in Christianity within India?

Because Brahmins are soft targets everywhere including here, questions relating to our old scriptures are repeatedly raised again and again.

That is why I suspect that some other religion may be funding them to raise questions here.

Muslims may not indulge in such things but missionaries will go to any extent.

I have my own experience of how the missionaries will indulge in such activities. I am a member of the society which is running Shri Vaishnavi Temple at Thirumullaivaayil.

Sri Vaishnavi Shrine, Aavadi (Chennai)

We provide accommodation for those who do service to the Devi. We don't discriminate the inmates based on caste when we provide accommodation. Mostly retired widowers settle in the temple campus and participate in the temple activities. Eventhough we allow other religious people to perform pooja to the Devi directly, we don't allow other religious people to stay inside the premises.

On one fine morning to everybody's shock, an elderly occupant came out of his cottage with a cross hanging in his neck and holding a bible in his hand. He said he has changed his name into `John Naidu' and changed his faith to Christianity. We had an awkward time and finally he agreed to vacate his residential accommodation and leave the premises. We never knew that he is following some other faith inside his cottage in the campus.

After that incident, I am always suspicious about the missionaries and their unethical activities

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

happy hindu,

1) What has your subscribing to Gandhiji got to do with others digging into past scriptures?

gandhiji is a revered and sacred being,who by virtue of his personal character swayed the emotions of christians aka british,to win freedom & independance,in a non-violent manner.in hindsight knowing the history,the non-violence was made as negligible as possible,though very severe violence occurred all over undivided india.

2) Historians do seem to know when the dharmashastras were written.

between a historian and an acharyal,most of us will choose an acharyal,especially if it happens to be mahaswamigal of kanchi.

3) Why do you need to feel embarassed? The ones who need to feel embarassed for propagating untouchability rubbish in this day and age are the ones who practice it (that is, the folks of mutts and some priests).

untouchability is still followed,in the name of security,otherwise all sants,gurus,presidents,pms,ministers..etc shud be freely touching all people from all walks of life.

4) I do not understand what has the muslim sharia, your personal stand of non-discrimination or christians considering the earth being flat got to do with the question of untouchability.

christians,muslims learnt the rudimentary theology from us.becz of our ancestor's knowledge and jealousy and greed,these muslims,christians invaded bharath repeatedly.the boiling rage of the past,is dormant amongst many sanathana dharma adherents,wich is being given vent,in a sauve and diplomatic maner,i think.maybe i am totally,out of mark too,if so,kindly ignore this post of mine.

5) Yes you can "always be suspicious about the missionaries and their unethical activities". However, that has nothing to do with some priests and mutts openly propagating untouchability.

their mission is to convert people to christanity,even though we know very well jesus christ never asked to do this conversion.the church is only a tool of the political leaders of an alien nation.the church uses jesus christ as propanganda idol,to divide people,and make another society sub-servient to its christians fanatiscm.i am not sure today,which mutt or which priest is practicing untouchability using shastra as a platform.if provided with information and proof,one can lodge a complaint,to the nearest police station to file fir.which will also save us enormous time and energy,to read this again and again ad nauseaum in threads!thank you.

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri KRS, Greetings!

This is why I do not accept your argument.

Yes, I know. As I have said repeatedly, I don't share your view that the current reservation system tantamount to punishment of the progeny of previous oppressors. I just don't see it that way and I base this on various factors I have already presented in detail. I thank you for providing the citation that bolstered my case.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

....This is somewhat detailed and useful:
Keezhavenmani revisited However, i am interested in knowing more about this incident. If you have more detailed info please let me know.

Dear HH,

This incident actually has a silver lining. The Alternative Nobel Prize winner for 2008, Krishnammal Jagannathan, a dalit herself, narrated the ending for this story in the interview she gave to Democracy Now. After long years of struggle, the children of the landowners, who as you rightly point out did not get their hands bloodied (very Brahminical of them), donated their lands to the Land for the Tillers' Freedom (LAFTI). Here is a small excerpt from that interview:

Krishnnammal: "And, you see, last June, it was a thrilling experience for me. I decided I should take all the lands from the landlords who involved themselves in the killing. It happened. They brought all the documents. They came in three cars and gave it ..."
​

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Respectable members,

How many of you have experienced a 'castless' interaction in India? merely mentioning that one does not treat someone else without discrimination (even though that person belonging to a lower caste) is not enough. When we say that 'we are not discriminating', that statement itself is discriminatory. I thought about it so many times. It is almost impossible for us to experience a 'castless interaction' in India.

Recently, I experienced a rare insight to 'casteless interaction'.

I visited our village (to see my mom) along with my daughter. She is 17 years old (She is an Aussie by birth); has no idea about caste differences and mainly she hasn't a clue about caste based discriminations. For her, there are only two differentiations...guys & girls. period. My friends in the village visited me...after the initial shock, my daughter started interacting with everyone....She readily hugged all the women; she addressed all the men with respect; all the women around our home/frequent our home became 'aunties'; all the men became 'uncles' (an auto driver became her favourite uncle!). Fortunately for me, there is no one in our family who could poison her mind. She took that village by surprise. The village would miss her. Everyone asked her to visit again. (As of today, I never disclosed her the impact of her addressing a Harijan maid as 'aunty').

Sow.Sri. Happy Hindu said :-

untouchability, in the context of my post that you quoted, means allowing 'dalits' the right to worship in temples, the right to study, and in the heart of our hearts not considering them inferior in any form...

My daughter showed me that one can 'in the heart of the heart can respect dalits and other castes'. Caste based reservation policies can never bring such a change; when the need to mention 'caste' do not exist, then, caste will just fade away. (for example, wearing a 'panchakacham' is fading away; even wearing 'thiruman' has greatly reduced'....I am sure few other caste based practices would have been discontinued too..).

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri RVR, Greetings!

he person who did the dastarly crime of burning 44 daliths in a hut at Kizhaavenmani belongs to the same caste of EVR,

Yet they revere EVR, and hate Brahminists, why? Think about that.

Even last year Subramanyam Swamy was attacked at Madras Highcourt with rotton eggs

If this is your documented evidence for (i) lot of attacks and (ii) mostly living in fear, then, it really is pathetic.

You have freely and successfully organized strictly castiest Svayamvarams, explictely for Brahmins, all across Tamil Nadu, and you say Brahmins live in fear. This shows that even educated and well-off Brahmins are quite at ease with dizzying levels of cognitive dissonance.

Another example of this is your repeated paranoid suspecion that some of us raising questions about Brahminism are probably funded by other religions. How silly can silly season get? What if somebody were to say, that they have a nagging suspicion that your fund raising for fishermen is actually on behalf of Bajrang Dal to burn down huts of the Christian converts among those fishermen families? How would you feel about that? That would really be silly isn't? The same is the case with your suspicions. I am writing this because you repeated this silly suspicion of yours, in justifying terms, in your reply to Shri sangom.

Well, you can have the last word on this matter, I am not interested in rebutting obsessive paranoia.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

Respectable members,

How many of you have experienced a 'castless' interaction in India? merely mentioning that one does not treat someone else without discrimination (even though that person belonging to a lower caste) is not enough. When we say that 'we are not discriminating', that statement itself is discriminatory. I thought about it so many times. It is almost impossible for us to experience a 'castless interaction' in India.

Recently, I experienced a rare insight to 'casteless interaction'.

I visited our village (to see my mom) along with my daughter. She is 17 years old (She is an Aussie by birth); has no idea about caste differences and mainly she hasn't a clue about caste based discriminations. For her, there are only two differentiations...guys & girls. period. My friends in the village visited me...after the initial shock, my daughter started interacting with everyone....She readily hugged all the women; she addressed all the men with respect; all the women around our home/frequent our home became 'aunties'; all the men became 'uncles' (an auto driver became her favourite uncle!). Fortunately for me, there is no one in our family who could poison her mind. She took that village by surprise. The village would miss her. Everyone asked her to visit again. (As of today, I never disclosed her the impact of her addressing a Harijan maid as 'aunty').

Sow.Sri. Happy Hindu said :-



My daughter showed me that one can 'in the heart of the heart can respect dalits and other castes'. Caste based reservation policies can never bring such a change; when the need to mention 'caste' do not exist, then, caste will just fade away. (for example, wearing a 'panchakacham' is fading away; even wearing 'thiruman' has greatly reduced'....I am sure few other caste based practices would have been discontinued too..).

Cheers!

raghy,

how often we have heard of single digit aged kids calling the servants by name - perumal or lakshmi? except these were in their 60s.

here in the west calling by first names is the norm. but not so in india. our children would always address elders as maama or maami. except servants ofcours.

 

[RVR]

Dear Shri RVR, Greetings!



Yet they revere EVR, and hate Brahminists, why? Think about that.

If this is your documented evidence for (i) lot of attacks and (ii) mostly living in fear, then, it really is pathetic.

You have freely and successfully organized strictly castiest Svayamvarams, explictely for Brahmins, all across Tamil Nadu, and you say Brahmins live in fear. This shows that even educated and well-off Brahmins are quite at ease with dizzying levels of cognitive dissonance.

Another example of this is your repeated paranoid suspecion that some of us raising questions about Brahminism are probably funded by other religions. How silly can silly season get? What if somebody were to say, that they have a nagging suspicion that your fund raising for fishermen is actually on behalf of Bajrang Dal to burn down huts of the Christian converts among those fishermen families? How would you feel about that? That would really be silly isn't? The same is the case with your suspicions. I am writing this because you repeated this silly suspicion of yours, in justifying terms, in your reply to Shri sangom.

Well, you can have the last word on this matter, I am not interested in rebutting obsessive paranoia.

Cheers!

Prof Nara,

You are not in India and you are imagining things when you don't have answers to my quarries.

You don't have any idea of who is revering whom in India and Tamilnadu but putting posts here based on your own imaginations. India's largest Dalith party BSP has a Brahmin as its General Secretary and to the best of my knowledge no other dalith party has made any caste Hindu as an important office bearer.

You people are not at all ashamed to bring even sub-castes when it is convenient for you.

"Small corrections about the point in bold:
EVR and Irinjur Gopalakrishna Naidu were not of the same caste. The former was a balija and the latter apparently was a kamma"

I know there are several sub-castes among Naidus such as Kamma Naidu, Balija Naidu, Kavara Naidu etc and they don't mix with each other.

On the contrary Brahmins have not only given up sub-castes but are also willing to marry other language speaking brahmins.

Your colleague called me castiest earlier and now you are calling me castiest.

Yes I have no hesitation in being called as a `BRAHMIN'. Whether you and I like it or not, not only me, my own sons, grandsons and descendents thereof have to carry the tag of 'BRAHMIN' as per the definition of Government of India and State Governments for ever. Even if my descendants go for intercaste marriage, `BRAHMIN' tag will remain with them as per legal pronouncements by the Supreme Court of India

For helping the fellow brahmins if you abuse me, I am gladly willing to take the same without any problem. I am willing to do any sacrifice for the fellow members of my community.

One thing is sure. I will not indulge in violence at any time in my life as I am a firm believer of Mahatma Gandhi's Ahimsa principles and I will not instigate any body on earth to indulge in violence.

You and your colleague are not even condemning violent incidents like burning 44 daliths including women and children but throwing wild allegations against me that I will burn huts of other religious people.

Please don't shed crocodile tears for daliths hereinafter in this forum.

I am not the only organiser of swayamvaram function. Even this website owner Sri Praveen is also an organiser of the swayamvaram along with several others. It is an open secret that we organise exclusively for `All sects of Brahmins'. To avoid possible clashes, we are forced to select Sanskrit College, Mylapore : Sankara Madam, Coimbatore and Srirengam where our community members are in large numbers. We are not deliberately selecting any other place for `fear' only.

All the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Yes I have no hesitation in being called as a `BRAHMIN'. Whether you and I like it or not, not only me, my own sons, grandsons and descendents thereof have to carry the tag of 'BRAHMIN' as per the definition of Government of India and State Governments for ever. Even if my descendants go for intercaste marriage, `BRAHMIN' tag will remain with them as per legal pronouncements by the Supreme Court of India

For helping the fellow brahmins ............................... I am gladly willing to take the same without any problem. I am willing to do any sacrifice for the fellow members of my community.

One thing is sure. I will not indulge in violence at any time in my life as I am a firm believer of Mahatma Gandhi's Ahimsa principles and I will not instigate any body on earth to indulge in violence.


All the best

Sri RVR


:first::yo::clap2:


Greetings

 

[nachi naga]

rvr,

you are being baited,don't bite.remember the guru's abhaya hastam,you will triumph.

nara,

hope ahobilam singar guides you.

folks,

first time,i think people are losing it.this is a brahmin forum for the brahmin of the brahmin from the brahmin.

i think some folks are just kindling,the beauty is,how i am perceived anti-vaishnavan is beyond me,especially when venky bhai is my kula deivam.ellam 7.5 shani panra nonsense or is it a lesson for me,

 

[nachi naga]

raghy,

how often we have heard of single digit aged kids calling the servants by name - perumal or lakshmi? except these were in their 60s.

here in the west calling by first names is the norm. but not so in india. our children would always address elders as maama or maami. except servants ofcours.

kunjuppu,

my experiance has been diff.i was always calling lokky di in kolkatta;balma behen in new-delhi;paychamma in chennai;peelykka in secunderabad;gowrama in bangalore;-but only in chennai i felt the heat of being a tambrahm and some of my actions were not acceptable behooving a brahmin.

elders were always uncle or aunty,mama or mami,akka,anna,p.appa p.amma,chitappa chitti...but in my family calling first names became norm untill older cozin got married became dicey calling by names as mannies were frowny faces when husbands were called by names...but in my in laws all only first names basis including my m-i-l.of course americans formally use last name and once the ice is broken first name basis.which is prolly true in canada,australia,uk...

 

[Nara]

For helping the fellow brahmins if you abuse me, I am gladly willing to take the same without any problem. I am willing to do any sacrifice for the fellow members of my community.

but throwing wild allegations against me that I will burn huts of other religious people.

RVR sir, I think you have not read my post carefully enough and jumped to wild conclusions. I never "abused" you in anyway, let alone "for helping the fellow brahmins". You are not the only one who "helps the fellow Brahmins", many do albeit silently. Even though I oppose Brahminsim with every bone in my body, much of what my wife and I have done that could be called "help" have gone only to Brahmins. The details of these are not the business of anyone. So, any presumption on your part that my argument with you is in any way shape or form, connected to the "charity" work you do is just that, presumption.

Also, I never threw any allegations against you. Here is what I said about burning huts:

What if somebody were to say, that they have a nagging suspicion that your fund raising for fishermen is actually on behalf of Bajrang Dal to burn down huts of the Christian converts among those fishermen families? How would you feel about that? That would really be silly isn't?
​

For your convenience, I have highlighted some key phrases that you seem to have not taken into account.

Also, instead of going on a gratuitous attack on me based on imagined abuse, please answer my charge that you are simply making up the two claims, (i) lot of attacks and (ii) mostly living in fear. Personal episodes are dime a dozen. Give me documented evidence.

----------------
Folks,

I have been an active member of this forum for several months now. During this time I have engaged in many discussions in which I have taken unpopular positions. All the while, I have established a track record of at least trying my best to stay civil even when I got attacked with personal insults. I am a big boy, I can handle it.

But, this time, the attack was not just against me.

There comes a time of clarity, a time when remaining silent is equal to siding with the perpetrators and those who cheer them on. People stayed silent when RVR said "I may not be surprised if some other religion may be funding them to create problems for brahmins here."

Nobody said anything when RVR said "Let us be careful with such guys here."

After first clarifying the target of RVR's comments, I tried to illustrate to him how it will be like to the recipients of his accusations by giving an example. For that, RVR has launched on an attack on me and my "colleague" i.e. HH, and he is getting applauded and encouraged.

Remember Jamadagneya .....

Cheers!

 

[silverfox]

Dear hon'ble members:

It is great that we all can openly discuss various issues -- but -- look at the heading of this thread: "are we following some norms and ethics in this forum?". It seems to me that things are getting hot and heated. May I ask everybody to sit back, relax and introspect? Let us cool it.
As a member, I would like to state the following:
As a boy growing up in the late 50's, the atrocities of EV Ramasamy Naicker (I will not call him 'Periyar') and his hooligans were horrendous. They used to terrorize brahmins by cutting off their 'poonals', 'kudumi', harassing the brahmin women.... the list goes on. I used to be so afraid to even to walk to school. I have been mocked, made fun of, called out names (I was made to wear 'thiruman' by my folks) because the hooligans can easily identify me as a brahmin boy. So, I have to side with Shri RVR about EVR's vituperative activities. I was there and I know what happened.

To Nachi Naga: Please do not indulge in making fun of other sub-sects (it appears that way) of Brahmins; the ball can come back and hit you.

To Prof. Nara: May we have the pleasure of reading your further postings on our Azhwars and their paasurams?

 

[silverfox]

Dear Nachi Naga:
I am sure you know that I am very fair to everybody on this forum. I have to point out this to you: Please address the Ahobilam Srimat Azhagiya Singar with respect; like any other Hindu Acharya, (or, for that matter, any religious head) he, too, deserves our respect. You wouldn't want someone to address casually the Kanchi Sri Acharya; would you?
I know you are not anti-Vaishnava but your words in writing give that impression. Maybe Shani Bhagwan is the reason!!!

rvr,

you are being baited,don't bite.remember the guru's abhaya hastam,you will triumph.

nara,

hope ahobilam singar guides you.

folks,

first time,i think people are losing it.this is a brahmin forum for the brahmin of the brahmin from the brahmin.

i think some folks are just kindling,the beauty is,how i am perceived anti-vaishnavan is beyond me,especially when venky bhai is my kula deivam.ellam 7.5 shani panra nonsense or is it a lesson for me,

 

[Nara]

So, I have to side with Shri RVR about EVR's vituperative activities.

Dear Shri silverfox, I understand you siding with Shri RVR about EVR, but I hope you are not siding with him on making unfounded and gratuitous accusations like being funded by other religions, etc.

To Prof. Nara: May we have the pleasure of reading your further postings on our Azhwars and their paasurams?

You honor me more than I deserve with this suggestion. I will try to live up to your expectation.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Silverfox said:-

the atrocities of EV Ramasamy Naicker (I will not call him 'Periyar') and his hooligans were horrendous. They used to terrorize brahmins by cutting off their 'poonals', 'kudumi', harassing the brahmin women.... the list goes on.

I was told about one such incident. My friend Grew up in Srivilliputhur. He had a huge respect for 'Thamaraikkani', the local MLA. I could not understand why he revered Thamaraikkani so much. He explained....In the late 70's one day DK followers broke into the houses in the agraharam, terrorizing elderly, women and children. One 80 year old Iyengar was beaten up and the 'rational thinking DK followers urinated in his mouth'. Thamaraikkani came to the agraharam and beaten away the பகுத்தறிவுவாதிகள்'. Ramasamy Naicker was a hypocrite.

Cheers!

 

[silverfox]

Dear Prof. Nara
I am sorry it was my omission. But then when I realized that I did not address it, I saw your response to Shri RVR. I can personally vouch for you that YOU are not being funded by other religions!! I doubt if Shri RVR was referring to you personally, however.
I also know Shri RVR is a good soul (so do you). We do lose our prespective in the heat of the moment sometimes. All I can ask of everybody is to just sit back and relax for a while.
When we get back, let us address issues and not getting personal.

All the members in this forum were greatly benefited by your analysis of Azhwar paasurams. I, for one, learned quite a bit. Please continue whenever you find time. Thank you.

 

[Raghy]

Nachi Naga said:-

i think some folks are just kindling,the beauty is,how i am perceived anti-vaishnavan is beyond me,

Whenever I stoodup for Sri.Nara, you said I was supporting a fellow Vaishnava; you used abusive languages towards me in that connection. To your sweet information, I do hold a lamp; there are people who have benefitted by the light shown by me. I still hold the lamp; I have no desire to put it down.

Cheers!

 

[Dr.T.N.Jambunathan]

I think the reservation on caste basis for SC & ST was guaranteed by the constitution adopted in 1950 on becoming a Socialistic Republic. Tamil Nadu takes pride in saying they had it even before in Justice party Period. This gradually expanded and to this current situation after Mandal and the Modern Manu V.P. Singh .This(Reservation on Caste) has become the daily Gayatri Mandram of all politicians and their out fit. Dr. Ramadoss is demanding Caste based Census and is threatening that Tamil Nadu will burn again as happened in 1980, situation created by his outfit Vanniar Sangam before it took the Avatar Of PMK . This according to them will give the true picture of the plight of their caste based on scientific data of Census. This has assumed a ridiculous stage even criminal investigations and further court proceeding if any is fought on the streets by poster war The latest is Uma Shanker Investigation on Corruption charges and Justice Dhinakarans dealings in Land. These posters claim it is all because of their caste! Now Abdulla formerly known as Periyar Dasan was arguing in media about the Ragging case In Annamalai university where a boys was murdered and the accused happened to be Dalit was reason enough to sensationalize the issue! Even Md.Azaruddin claimed because of his religion he was linked with some match fixing investigations And All these out fits were jubilant and extremely happy and congratulated the Government for arresting Sankarachaya of Kanchi. Anything that happens here seems to revolve around caste.

Now why not then a census on (caste based) all proven crimes & that are under investigations? That should give you a scientific data regarding the criminal activities of various castes groups & caste politics. Jambu:fish2:

 

[RVR]

Dr Jambu Sir,

There is a small correction in your statement

"I think the reservation on caste basis for SC & ST was guaranteed by the constitution adopted in 1950 on becoming a Socialistic Republic"

India became a republic in 1950 but the word `Socialism' was not in the original constitution document.

Congress led by Jawaharlal Nehru adopted `Socialism' in Avadi conference which was vehement ally opposed by Rajaji. I still remember Rajaji's writings in Swarajaya long back. He was dead against Licence Control Raj which he said will eventually breed corruption. He use to write `Let the businessman fight at the market place and not at the corridors of Power'

During emergency, Indira Gandhi inserted the word `socialism' in the constitution books. Congress has given up socialism under Narasimha Rao and Manmohan Singh way back in 1991 when the liberalisation started but are keeping the word in constitution books for obvious reasons.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Shri RVR,

1) You often bring up politics and comparisons with mayavati and bsp. Hope you realise that not all states of india are the same when it comes to caste equations, power plays, corruptive abilities of the people themselves, cultural mores, social roles and acceptance, and so on.

2) "You people are not at all ashamed to bring even sub-castes when it is convenient for you....I know there are several sub-castes among Naidus such as Kamma Naidu, Balija Naidu, Kavara Naidu etc and they don't mix with each other".

Wrong. Kammas and balijas are not sub-castes of one another. Naidu is only a title. It is used by members of various castes. I even know of a tamil vanniyar using the title Naicker - his son married a telugu padmasali and started using the title naidu.

You mentioned that gopalakrishna and evr belong to the same caste; and i mentioned that they belonged to diff castes. If you make a wrong claim, wud it be "wrong" of me to correct it?


3) Your colleague called me castiest earlier and now you are calling me castiest....
For helping the fellow brahmins if you abuse me, I am gladly willing to take the same without any problem. I am willing to do any sacrifice for the fellow members of my community.

Who has abused you? And that too for your charity work? What has made you imagine things like that? Please clarify this. Because i am keen to correct myself if this is a result of improper communication on my part.

To me, the term "casteist" is not an abuse term at all. I used the term for you bcoz you bring the caste bias in what you call "rationalism".


4) You and your colleague are not even condemning violent incidents like burning 44 daliths including women and children but throwing wild allegations against me that I will burn huts of other religious people....Please don't shed crocodile tears for daliths hereinafter in this forum.

Ofcourse its a miserably gruesome incident. Who is not condemning it? Imo, the communists deserve better praise for their role in reaching out to the 'dalits' for timely help in such things, but somehow they do not seem to be popular in media.

Nobody has made any allegations about you (wild or otherwise). Please do not imagine things like that. I earnestly request you to read the posts well before you provide a response. Or perhaps better to take a small walk and relax a bit before posting.

Nobody is sheding tears for dalits or anyone. There is no need to. Nobody is bothered about the past. It is all about the present.

5) I am not the only organiser of swayamvaram function. Even this website owner Sri Praveen is also an organiser of the swayamvaram along with several others. It is a open secret that we organise exclusively for `All sects of Brahmins'. To avoid possible clashes, we are forced to select Sanskrit College, Mylapore : Sankara Madam, Coimbatore and Srirengam where our community members are in large numbers. We are not deliberately selecting any other place for `fear' only.

That last sentence is quite a sweeping statement. Am sure you wud have selected a kalyana mandapam, or a convention hall in a hotel, just as easily without any "fear". But they are not easy to get unless booking is made well in advance. I agree violence existed in the post-independence period. But was there any violence against brahmins from the 80s? With this type of posts (that is, allegations of living in fear in the present times) you may be conveying to people who do not know anything about tamilnadu as though all brahmins live there in "fear"; which is not true.

Prof Nara,

You are not in India and you are imagining things when you don't have answers to my quarries.

You don't have any idea of who is revering whom in India and Tamilnadu but putting posts here based on your own imaginations. India's largest Dalith party BSP has a Brahmin as its General Secretary and to the best of my knowledge no other dalith party has made any caste Hindu as an important office bearer.

You people are not at all ashamed to bring even sub-castes when it is convenient for you.

"Small corrections about the point in bold:
EVR and Irinjur Gopalakrishna Naidu were not of the same caste. The former was a balija and the latter apparently was a kamma"

I know there are several sub-castes among Naidus such as Kamma Naidu, Balija Naidu, Kavara Naidu etc and they don't mix with each other.

On the contrary Brahmins have not only given up sub-castes but are also willing to marry other language speaking brahmins.

Your colleague called me castiest earlier and now you are calling me castiest.

Yes I have no hesitation in being called as a `BRAHMIN'. Whether you and I like it or not, not only me, my own sons, grandsons and descendents thereof have to carry the tag of 'BRAHMIN' as per the definition of Government of India and State Governments for ever. Even if my descendants go for intercaste marriage, `BRAHMIN' tag will remain with them as per legal pronouncements by the Supreme Court of India

For helping the fellow brahmins if you abuse me, I am gladly willing to take the same without any problem. I am willing to do any sacrifice for the fellow members of my community.

One thing is sure. I will not indulge in violence at any time in my life as I am a firm believer of Mahatma Gandhi's Ahimsa principles and I will not instigate any body on earth to indulge in violence.

You and your colleague are not even condemning violent incidents like burning 44 daliths including women and children but throwing wild allegations against me that I will burn huts of other religious people.

Please don't shed crocodile tears for daliths hereinafter in this forum.

I am not the only organiser of swayamvaram function. Even this website owner Sri Praveen is also an organiser of the swayamvaram along with several others. It is a open secret that we organise exclusively for `All sects of Brahmins'. To avoid possible clashes, we are forced to select Sanskrit College, Mylapore : Sankara Madam, Coimbatore and Srirengam where our community members are in large numbers. We are not deliberately selecting any other place for `fear' only.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Shri Silverfox,

Am not sure if this might convey that perhaps Shri RVR is referring to me personally. No matter what i say, am not sure if any amount of reasoning will apply in this case. I too believe Shri RVR is a kind soul. And there certainly is no need for him to take things personally to heart about certain discussions. But am not so sure about loosing perspective. We may lose our perspective once in a while and misread or misunderstand others' posts. However, Shri RVR is rather consistent with claims of victimized state of brahmins in the present times and fear...and possibly if anyone mentions things non-supportive of that, he may not like it. Anyways, i suppose its best to let this thread and all the folks on it rest for a while; or move on to other topics.

Regards.

Dear Prof. Nara
I am sorry it was my omission. But then when I realized that I did not address it, I saw your response to Shri RVR. I can personally vouch for you that YOU are not being funded by other religions!! I doubt if Shri RVR was referring to you personally, however.
I also know Shri RVR is a good soul (so do you). We do lose our prespective in the heat of the moment sometimes. All I can ask of everybody is to just sit back and relax for a while.
When we get back, let us address issues and not getting personal.

All the members in this forum were greatly benefited by your analysis of Azhwar paasurams. I, for one, learned quite a bit. Please continue whenever you find time. Thank you.

 

[happyhindu]

Just now viewed the online interview. God bless her and her husband for the work they do. But was wishing the wrong usage of 'dravidian" as used by Smt.Krishnammal ji was not used.....Good to know that the landed folks handed over land to the landless finally.

Was told that in the past when land (formerly seized by the british) got into the hands of the farmers (from 1860s onwards due to various reasons), the farmers wud claim to belong to an other 'caste' (like palli or padayatchi farmers would take on the title naicker or mudaliar after becoming land owners). Some enterprising ones (even if they managed to get small patches of land) wud also lay lineage claims to link themselves up to zamindaris (which wud not be wrong, just that they were not so-called 'legitimate' - this whole legitimacy thing can get rather funny actually with everyone having their own opinions and delusions about it). Anyways, its so hard to think that one must be bonded to an occupation by birth, instead of having a choice. Was appaled to think folks are made to do they do not like even now for their birth: YouTube - IN SCHOOLS - India Untouched - The Movie - Part 3

Dear HH,

This incident actually has a silver lining. The Alternative Nobel Prize winner for 2008, Krishnammal Jagannathan, a dalit herself, narrated the ending for this story in the interview she gave to Democracy Now. After long years of struggle, the children of the landowners, who as you rightly point out did not get their hands bloodied (very Brahminical of them), donated their lands to the Land for the Tillers' Freedom (LAFTI). Here is a small excerpt from that interview:

Krishnnammal: "And, you see, last June, it was a thrilling experience for me. I decided I should take all the lands from the landlords who involved themselves in the killing. It happened. They brought all the documents. They came in three cars and gave it ..."
​

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

Originally Posted by Raghy Respectable members,

How many of you have experienced a 'castless' interaction in India? merely mentioning that one does not treat someone else without discrimination (even though that person belonging to a lower caste) is not enough. When we say that 'we are not discriminating', that statement itself is discriminatory. I thought about it so many times. It is almost impossible for us to experience a 'castless interaction' in India.

Recently, I experienced a rare insight to 'casteless interaction'.

I visited our village (to see my mom) along with my daughter. She is 17 years old (She is an Aussie by birth); has no idea about caste differences and mainly she hasn't a clue about caste based discriminations. For her, there are only two differentiations...guys & girls. period. My friends in the village visited me...after the initial shock, my daughter started interacting with everyone....She readily hugged all the women; she addressed all the men with respect; all the women around our home/frequent our home became 'aunties'; all the men became 'uncles' (an auto driver became her favourite uncle!). Fortunately for me, there is no one in our family who could poison her mind. She took that village by surprise. The village would miss her. Everyone asked her to visit again. (As of today, I never disclosed her the impact of her addressing a Harijan maid as 'aunty').

Sow.Sri. Happy Hindu said :-


My daughter showed me that one can 'in the heart of the heart can respect dalits and other castes'. Caste based reservation policies can never bring such a change; when the need to mention 'caste' do not exist, then, caste will just fade away. (for example, wearing a 'panchakacham' is fading away; even wearing 'thiruman' has greatly reduced'....I am sure few other caste based practices would have been discontinued too..).

Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

I stayed in diff places as a child; and am trying to recollect the castes of all those i interacted with as a kid and as a young adult - am not able to do so. I was not disallowed from touching or playing with anyone. Same for the brahmin kids i played with..they too did not know such things.

An iyer friend in chennai used to exchange notes, and hang out with tea and gossip with his best-friend who lived in a hut near a construction site (who wud apparently be a dalit)....Like this i can recollect so many instances of interaction (that were totally casteless as a child with some vague idea of caste as a young adult) ....

for that matter the ideas of 'caste' was not so well-formed in my mind until a few years ago when i began digging into stuff..

i think many of us realise "caste" only after we grow up. When we try to recollect our childhood we are quite puzzled that we did not know and still do not know the castes of some of our playmates.

So far personally i have not come across even the remotest existence of untouchability. Casteless interaction is a reality everywhere , i think.

Nobody wud be interested in prohibitting dalits from entering temples or getting an education due to their birth in this day and age..however, we understand that such things do exist in some places and folks who subscribe to such mentality belong to various classes. What is disconcerting is the role of some religious folk in propagation of such things. But am certain the younger generation will certainly override all that stuff.

Btw, the younger generation (including my nephew and neice) call me by name...apparently the term aunty is confusing to them since everyone else is an aunty as well..

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Sri.Happy Hindu said:-

So far personally i have not come across even the remotest existence of untouchability. Nobody wud be interested in prohibitting dalits from entering temples or getting an education due to their birth in this day and age..however, we understand that such things do exist in some places and folks who subscribe to such mentality belong to various classes. What is disconcerting is the role of some religious folk in propagation of such things. But am certain the younger generation will certainly override all that stuff.

Sow. Happy Hindu,

Greetings. You seem to have a lot of faith in the younger generation. Between the period of 18 years and 25 years of age, the younger generation can be easily persuaded; that is the time, most youngsters like to learn more about their religion or become 'more religious'. It is up to the elders to discuss and show the youngsters the right path. This is the time to safe guard the youngsters from religious persons who lack the touch with realities. Also, this is the time, the Government should positively encourage the youngsters. As you rightly mentioned, some of the religious persons and the Government policies in India are against the healthy nurturing of youngsters. Most youngsters override all the negative stuff inspite of certain Government policies and inspite of few religious leaders.

(By the way, I managed to watch 'India untouched' completely last night. Some of the serious issues faced by the dalit land workers were not covered in detail; North India seem to be more discriminative than the south India; Discrimination is at every level, I mean some of the discriminating castes would be discriminated by other 'higher castes'; Voilence as the mantra is despicable (the tea shop in Trichy...I have seen this in my own village when I was very young. I am glad, such things don't exist in our village anymore). On the other hand, this movie seems like one sided. About the Pandit...his views were edited and shown at the end of a discrimnatory episode; it sounded as if that Pandit was justifying that incident. But in reality, that pandit was not addressing any particular incident. Stalin could have asked the Pandit's opinion at the end of each incident; that Pandit would have said something in justification anyway, but it would have been more natural than the edit job. Kudos for covering Christian and Muslim discriminations too! That was a real good move).

Cheers!
Cheers!