Divorcee Marriage : A Paradox

[sarvajithv51]

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No Intention of rubbing anybody's ego the wrong way. Just a plain simple truth in the form of a question.

Among the Brahmins, today, we see, that there is a new concept of altering parts of the shastras, to suit their ego and convenience.

During marriage, there is a mantra recited which enables the change of gotram of the girl.

The other mantras specially mention that the couple will be together facing all the rough weather of life

Today, the number of divorces are on the rise, especially in the Brahmin Community.

One Question here is about the divorcee girl.

Today, the concept of divorcee for divorcee only is hugely popular, probably the result of some wealthy brahmin parent ensuring a well planned mind-game using money power.


For Men, however, they are permitted by the Vedas to take another unmarried girl only. Even Law of Nature equips men that way.

But, how can a divorcee girl ( Gotram already that of her husband ) violate the rules mentioned in the Vedas for women and marry another man ?

Wont that man be marrying someone else's wife ( Gotram already that of her first husband )

So, then will the child born not be invalid ? I mean, mother is the wife of some other man, father is a different person ?

Is this the Effect of Kaliyuga ? Or Lack of commitment to the words " LIFE PARTNERS " ? Or is it nothing but the result of ego gratification ?

25 years from today, for our children's marriage, we probably might be required to ask details of the parents' marriage, who is who,...etc

 

[nachi naga]

No Intention of rubbing anybody's ego the wrong way. Just a plain simple truth in the form of a question.

Among the Brahmins, today, we see, that there is a new concept of altering parts of the shastras, to suit their ego and convenience.

our religion is a dynamic religion,so it's not static.broad guidelines are there,sometimes selective circumventing of sastras are done,on case by case basis.

During marriage, there is a mantra recited which enables the change of gotram of the girl.

The other mantras specially mention that the couple will be together facing all the rough weather of life

Today, the number of divorces are on the rise, especially in the Brahmin Community.

lack of compromising attitude is the cause.older women bore the brunt of nonsense of men in general.now why women shud be subjected to such archaic old fuddy duddy rules of the institution.

One Question here is about the divorcee girl.

Today, the concept of divorcee for divorcee only is hugely popular, probably the result of some wealthy brahmin parent ensuring a well planned mind-game using money power.

just a practical solution thot of,as status will be same.

For Men, however, they are permitted by the Vedas to take another unmarried girl only. Even Law of Nature equips men that way.

biologically men are designed diffrently.so,such a practical assumption,even women can take a younger man,if she wants!

But, how can a divorcee girl ( Gotram already that of her husband ) violate the rules mentioned in the Vedas for women and marry another man ?

kanya danam,is specific.if the rules of engagement is broken,she is dad's gothram back in original form as usual.this is becoz man's xy chromosome detrmine the sex of the child.

Wont that man be marrying someone else's wife ( Gotram already that of her first husband )

see above answere.

So, then will the child born not be invalid ? I mean, mother is the wife of some other man, father is a different person ?

the child gets to choose,either one or both,after 18 years.

Is this the Effect of Kaliyuga ? Or Lack of commitment to the words " LIFE PARTNERS " ? Or is it nothing but the result of ego gratification ?

25 years from today, for our children's marriage, we probably might be required to ask details of the parents' marriage, who is who,...etc

all this is,there in scriptures.kaliyuga will force such matter's to happen,thats the law of natural things to come.equation of god is simple as always,its we humans who make it,complexo complex.

 

[sarvajithv51]

Mr.Nachi Naga Vs. The Vedas

1) From Nachinaga : our religion is a dynamic religion,so it's not static.broad guidelines are there,sometimes selective circumventing of sastras are done,on case by case basis.

*** Vedas say that they are the breath of Parameswara Lord Shiva and to alter scriptures ( Flexibility is different, Alteration is different ) is a Ghora Paavam with disastrous consequences in the future ***

2) From Nachinaga : kanya danam,is specific.if the rules of engagement is broken,she is dad's gothram back in original form as usual.this is becoz man's xy chromosome detrmine the sex of the child.

*** As per ancient Vedic Scriptures ( As revealed by a brahmasri who was the asthana vidwan at Tirumala and is now no more alive ); once the kanya danam is done, that is it. It is all over. She Can NEVER return to her father's gotram. If it is a case of cheating or divorce from the girl's side, she remains like Trisanku, in between state, neither father's gotram nor husband's gotram and the weight of sin going to her father's side or husband's side on case to case basis of dharma vs adharma.

That is the reason, why the parents of girls till the recent past, went all out in ensuring that the girl merges completely with her husband and his family ( The one that she actually belongs to ) adjusting to all the rough weather of life

***

*** Just quoting the greats. Truth is Truth. Best to accept it as soon as possible ***

 

[nachi naga]

Mr.Nachi Naga Vs. The Vedas

1) From Nachinaga : our religion is a dynamic religion,so it's not static.broad guidelines are there,sometimes selective circumventing of sastras are done,on case by case basis.

*** Vedas say that they are the breath of Parameswara Lord Shiva and to alter scriptures ( Flexibility is different, Alteration is different ) is a Ghora Paavam with disastrous consequences in the future ***

samnskritham language is such,some are ambiguous.if breath is compared,its a continous process isn't it?as life force prana depends upon it.such words like ghora paavam were mentioned to enforce or implement rules of engagements.

2) From Nachinaga : kanya danam,is specific.if the rules of engagement is broken,she is dad's gothram back in original form as usual.this is becoz man's xy chromosome detrmine the sex of the child.

*** As per ancient Vedic Scriptures ( As revealed by a brahmasri who was the asthana vidwan at Tirumala and is now no more alive ); once the kanya danam is done, that is it. It is all over. She Can NEVER return to her father's gotram. If it is a case of cheating or divorce from the girl's side, she remains like Trisanku, in between state, neither father's gotram nor husband's gotram and the weight of sin going to her father's side or husband's side on case to case basis of dharma vs adharma.

the beauty of sastras are interpretations and it all depends upon who interprets and who is bonafide acahrya who is saying it.

That is the reason, why the parents of girls till the recent past, went all out in ensuring that the girl merges completely with her husband and his family ( The one that she actually belongs to ) adjusting to all the rough weather of life

it's a practical thing to do,that is all,so that progenies flourish.but if two parties are at each others throat,and feel mutually to seperate,there is no onus of responsibility only on the girl or girls side.

***

*** Just quoting the greats. Truth is Truth. Best to accept it as soon as possible ***

truth is subjective and we must look at it objectively and be practical in life.for successful marriage,sacrifice compassion understanding give and take compromise is essential ingredient infused with self respect and love.we are humans not some computer,where commands are prescribed to churn out performance.

 

[kr subramanian]

Sir
Do you think that there will be arranged marriage (in majority cases) after 25 years. Even now we see in the matrimonial column sub sects no bar (which we used to strongly look 10 years before) If we are still insisting all these our children and grand children will prefer love marriage (with other caste/religion) . In Kerala the King or upper caste had Gandharva Vivaha and after two are three generation what can be said. As per Christian we all are born to Adam & Eve and if we go back to trace we all will be Brothers and Sisters.

 

[nachi naga]

72-yr-old to have baby with grandson - UK - World - The Times of India
:faint:

 

[Jambu]

I really do not know if a divorcée can be remarried according to our Hindu rites .Some Vathiyars regularly do this as per Hindu rites But Catholic churches do not do this Their wedding vow "Until death do us apart" is strictly applied by these churches If any catholic divorcée wants to remarry it is outside the purview of the church and is not found in church"s records. They opt for civil wedding In registrars office. Only Islam recognizes Talaq and hence they are free to marry again according to their Nikha rites Jambu:argue:

 

[nachi naga]

I really do not know if a divorcée can be remarried according to our Hindu rites .Some Vathiyars regularly do this as per Hindu rites But Catholic churches do not do this Their wedding vow "Until death do us apart" is strictly applied by these churches If any catholic divorcée wants to remarry it is outside the purview of the church and is not found in church"s records. They opt for civil wedding In registrars office. Only Islam recognizes Talaq and hence they are free to marry again according to their Nikha rites Jambu:argue:

jambhu

our sanathana dharma composes of various darshanas,which after 1200 years rule of aliens in 1947 ended.technically,a woman seperated or man seperated after mutual consent or panchayath seperation,the tradition was each was free to choose a spouse.now,we are in 5112 kali yugam,that too 8 th cycle of the yuga cycles...so we have to evolve to present conditions also,not some nutty ways of past if at all it was nutty!today women and man are just physically different,otherwise skills talents etc everything is equal,so we need to be fair,otherwise women will leave us and marry some timbuctoo placed guys.i think brahmins girls need to stay with us otherwise our breeding system of swayamvaram by tradition sampradayam will be lost forever.

 

[satyojatam]

There are many smrtis. It means that the codes of conduct have been revised many times according to the needs of the times. All of them are said to be based on Vedas. So it will be fair to revise the dharmasastras to suit the modern conditions, again based on Vedas.

 

[Raghy]

Sri Sarvajith said :-

For Men, however, they are permitted by the Vedas to take another unmarried girl only. Even Law of Nature equips men that way.

Greetings. The above quoted statement is very interesting. What is the defenition of 'unmarried girl'? Is not a girl, who's status stands as 'unmarried' would fulfill that? Would a divorced girl or a widow fit the status of 'unmarried'?
'Even the lawas of nature equips men that way'....If possible, kindly explain this sentance, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[Jambu]

Sri Sarvajith said :-

Greetings. The above quoted statement is very interesting. What is the defenition of 'unmarried girl'? Is not a girl, who's status stands as 'unmarried' would fulfill that? Would a divorced girl or a widow fit the status of 'unmarried'?
'Even the lawas of nature equips men that way'....If possible, kindly explain this sentance, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

I think you do a thing and then you may undo. Unmarried in that sense would mean is a girl married and later is a divorce
The term is used for girls yet to be married also widely I think correct expression would be not married rather than unmarried in this situation Jambu:eyebrows:

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Jambu,

Greetings. Thanks for the explanations. Why would the Vedas direct men to marry only 'non-married' girls only? The same vedas somewhere advices women to bear off-springs, even if it requires trying with multiple partners. In other words, there are somany contradicting advices can be found in the collection of 'vedas'; can we take all of them seriously? I am still wondering about the 'men naturally equipped'....

Cheers!

 

[Jambu]

Sri.Jambu,

Greetings. Thanks for the explanations. Why would the Vedas direct men to marry only 'non-married' girls only? The same vedas somewhere advices women to bear off-springs, even if it requires trying with multiple partners. In other words, there are somany contradicting advices can be found in the collection of 'vedas'; can we take all of them seriously? I am still wondering about the 'men naturally equipped'....

Cheers!

I am ignorant of Vedas But even in science of medicine there were lot of funny expressions explanations regarding women to bear off springs. Normal regular menstrual bleeding was described "crying of unfertilized Ovum". Hysteria was described to be specific psychiatric problem affecting only women The word has it root in hysterics meaning uterus It is supposed move all over the body of women wandering & causing the disease when it has not full filled it normal function that is to carry the fetus to full term. cure suggested was to become pregnant! Now male hysteria is also recognized. Jambu:rockon:

 

[sankara_sharmah]

There are many smrtis. It means that the codes of conduct have been revised many times according to the needs of the times. All of them are said to be based on Vedas. So it will be fair to revise the dharmasastras to suit the modern conditions, again based on Vedas.

I agree.

Vedas have no relevance here. Nothing about the code of conduct and other non-spiritual affairs is stated there.

The Dharmasasthras (Smirtis) codify the conduct of worldly affairs. These law books or smiritis have been revised many times. There are 18 principal smiritis written over a period of time.

Manu Smiriti prohibits Brahmins from staying anywhere other than in Arya Varta. Arya Varta does not include south India.

Again all Smiritis strictly prohibit crossing the sea. You cease to be a Brahmin. Later on they devised Pariharams when our people went to U.K for I.C.S. Now even that is forgotten.

 

[Raghy]

Manusmrithi about the marriage of a divorced or widowed woman...

"Though divorce and remarriage of divorcees is allowed in Manu Smriti, Widow remarriage is sanctioned only if the marriage has not been consummated, otherwise the widow (or widower) are to practice Brahmacharya. If the widow has to continue the family line, they are either to adopt children or apply to a contract called 'niyoga', where a chosen man or a widow fathers children for her (in verse IX: 77)."

Ref - StateMaster - Encyclopedia: Manu Smriti.

Cheers!

 

[sarvajithv51]

Clarification

1) Unmarried means Virgin

2) In Kaliyuga, niyoga is prohibited even among kshatriyas ( Ref: Deivathin Kural : Paramacharyal Maha Periyaval's discourses )

3) For the question by a reader on why a man should marry unmarried girl only, the gotram part of the original article already answers this question.

*** Now a days, in every brahmin household there is some or the other problem. So, each house has it's own list of violations of multiple scriptural rules and regulations, some of them are as serious as divorcee girl/ widow re-marriage.

But the moment you tell them these, their ego, fragile ego gets affected and they jump at you

So many people with vedic knowledge have retreated into a shell, preferring solitude than humiliation ***

*** 25 years from now, just imagine how it will be for parents during a matrimonial exercise for their children. Exchange of horoscope will be replaced with exchange of questions such as " Is your mother a first-time married woman, or is she a divorcee that married your father ? If yes, who was her first husband,...etc "

***

Even christians speak in very derogatory terms of divorce and divorcee girls remarriage.

Brahmins are probably the only ones who spring upon others who remind them of the TRUTH.......Law of Nature

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Ways of life and society goes through constant change. When the change is gradual , and only improvement on the existing ways, the adaptation is easy. When changes are in contrast with the till then adopted ways, adaptation becomes difficult and resistance develops. But at any time , there will be instant acceptance for the new change, from a part of the society. Once the society feels the change is good, changed ways gradually are accepted by those who initially resisted also. Those who even then stay resisting will find isolated. However this new way also may undergo change if a better alternative develops.

Any doctrine, Sastra, edicts, etc are all for the orderly existence of society and comfort of its members. Anything which gives comfort will be easily accepted.
Rigidity and obstinacy will not be welcomed.

Every society , every religion has always different sets of people , reacting differently to the changes made. Still there are many such topics where there is difference of opinion. For eg: abortion, homosexuality, women priests, marriage of priests, worshipping rights for women, and lot like that.

Nobody can ultimately claim that his side only is right. It was believed that earth was flat till it was widely accepted as round. We do not know whether a new theory will find way in future. . Wheels enable speed. But new theory is that wheel is the stumbling block for speed.So the magnetic levitation .This also may change.

We cannot put the clock back.We cannot put the society and civilization back to pre historic times or stone age. The move has to be forward only. Compromises may occur to avoid the change shocks.

When fresh milk is not available, we are using milk powder, dairy whitener. Lot of such compromises are resorted to in life. Initially there may be difficulty in accepting , and we will develop lot of theories to justify resistance. When that is the only alternative it will be accepted. Then also we will put forth theories justifying that

Change is constant .Time is the best moderator.

Greetings

 

[ambes]

In todays modern and fast world everything from rituals to traditions is a matter of convenience. No hard and fast rules could be followed.or is followed. As correctly said by Mr. Satyajatam it will be and can be revised to suit modern times

 

[sarvajithv51]

Divorcee Marriage

Even With Changing Times, some things remain a constant.

Brother is a Man, but he is a Brother. He cannot marry sister just because she is a Woman.

But, if a person's basic natural senses are not fully functional, error in judgement is his/her headache and no one can help it.

Just to satisfy one's ego, and to justify the condition of one's family, the rules of nature cannot be violated.

Ramanujacharya is one example of a very powerful achiever, who attempted to change many a rule.

It has today seriously mis-fired, with many iyengars themselves being greatly divided over accepting the other converts into brahminical caste, and this is after disastrous experiences they have had.

All because of one person called ramanujacharya

I feel, some non-brahmins have given fictitous identities and are posting on this forum

Please check before giving membership

 

[nachi naga]

Jambu

Now male hysteria is also recognized. :rockon:

sir,i am hysterical at times,and i am male as per physiognomy.how do i become pregnant?thinking about this,i am hysterical even more,sir plz dont help:decision:

 

[nachi naga]

Even With Changing Times, some things remain a constant.

Brother is a Man, but he is a Brother. He cannot marry sister just because she is a Woman.

But, if a person's basic natural senses are not fully functional, error in judgement is his/her headache and no one can help it.

Just to satisfy one's ego, and to justify the condition of one's family, the rules of nature cannot be violated.

Ramanujacharya is one example of a very powerful achiever, who attempted to change many a rule.

It has today seriously mis-fired, with many iyengars themselves being greatly divided over accepting the other converts into brahminical caste, and this is after disastrous experiences they have had.

All because of one person called ramanujacharya

I feel, some non-brahmins have given fictitous identities and are posting on this forum

Please check before giving membership

sarvajit sir,i beg you plz leave acaryas alone,as there are many devoted devotees here,and their feelings will get hurt.its a ayyangar matter,we shud leave it alone as exclusivity is their domain of operations.

 

[kunjuppu]

I feel, some non-brahmins have given fictitous identities and are posting on this forum

Please check before giving membership

sarv,

i think this forum is open to all. there is no discrimination based on caste.

let us not be exclusive or think exclusivity.

.