Discrimination - can it be stopped
Hats Off Madam. God certainly will be with you together with HIS blessings.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
Hats Off Madam. God certainly will be with you together with HIS blessings.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
-
Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Discrimination - can it be stopped?
- Thread starter prasad1
- Start date
- Status
renuka
Well-known member
Ok may be we can hear now about preference of another kind.
Long back I had a staff a fellow Hindu who worked for me along with some Non Hindu staff.
I usually join my staff for lunch in the clinic and we eat what we bring from home.
I noticed that the Hindu staff never used to feel comfortable eating in front of me and was always hiding her food from me till one day she told me point blank on my face saying "doc I am not comfortable to eat in front of you since you are a vegetarian and I am eating Non veg..can you eat in your own room and not join us for lunch"
I told her I do not mind anyone eating anything veg or non veg so she doesnt have to feel uneasy as I am a vegetarian on grounds of compassion.
To my surprise she told me this" I am not worried about what you eat but since you are a vegetarian you might be cursing my food each time you see non veg and I am afraid your thoughts will affect me when I eat"
I was thinking OMG she was afraid that I would curse her food...God knows what gave her the thought.
Ok next...then a few days later this very same staff storms into my room to complain to me that the Non Hindu staff is eating beef for lunch and this staff wanted me to ban beef in the clinic.
I told her its not againts Non Hindu dharma to consume beef so I can not ban it from clinic lunch room and the Hindu staff got so mad with me and said she hasnt met a Hindu like me who allows staff to eat beef in the premise.
She stopped after that becos she said she was uncomfortable to sit with the Non Hindu staff who ate beef during lunch and didnt want to sit where beef was eaten.
I dont know what she was thinking but I was thinking to sit with a vegetarian she had a problem and even to sit with a person who consumed beef she had a problem too.
So I guess each one of us has a reason for our personal preferences..
Long back I had a staff a fellow Hindu who worked for me along with some Non Hindu staff.
I usually join my staff for lunch in the clinic and we eat what we bring from home.
I noticed that the Hindu staff never used to feel comfortable eating in front of me and was always hiding her food from me till one day she told me point blank on my face saying "doc I am not comfortable to eat in front of you since you are a vegetarian and I am eating Non veg..can you eat in your own room and not join us for lunch"
I told her I do not mind anyone eating anything veg or non veg so she doesnt have to feel uneasy as I am a vegetarian on grounds of compassion.
To my surprise she told me this" I am not worried about what you eat but since you are a vegetarian you might be cursing my food each time you see non veg and I am afraid your thoughts will affect me when I eat"
I was thinking OMG she was afraid that I would curse her food...God knows what gave her the thought.
Ok next...then a few days later this very same staff storms into my room to complain to me that the Non Hindu staff is eating beef for lunch and this staff wanted me to ban beef in the clinic.
I told her its not againts Non Hindu dharma to consume beef so I can not ban it from clinic lunch room and the Hindu staff got so mad with me and said she hasnt met a Hindu like me who allows staff to eat beef in the premise.
She stopped after that becos she said she was uncomfortable to sit with the Non Hindu staff who ate beef during lunch and didnt want to sit where beef was eaten.
I dont know what she was thinking but I was thinking to sit with a vegetarian she had a problem and even to sit with a person who consumed beef she had a problem too.
So I guess each one of us has a reason for our personal preferences..
Clearly it shows "might is right". Always. Only the mighty can bulldoze through regardless!
renuka
Well-known member
I guess no one was really following the rule all that much cos I also dont really know who is B and NB at one glance but believe me people can really guess, I had a friend who was a iyengar who could guess any caste at one glance as she was always right.
Dont ask me how but she could even tell who is a Gounder,Devar, Iyer,Iyengar Gowda Saraswat,Konkani Brahmin, Northern Indian Brahmin and Northern Indian Non Brahmins like Auroras etc by just looking at them.
Amala and Renu,
Nice discussion.
Frankly i do not mind the seating arrangement, but i do mind rolling over the ecchilelai practice.
i do not know what skin diseases get cured, but wonder if some actually could have contracted diseases in this medley..
Some say, everyone takes part in such rituals, so whats wrong. However, to me, it remains a fact that various groups evolved over time, and have become brahmins also..i do not think those who came from traditional brahmin families wud take part in this...some say brahmins proper were forbidden from going to temples even...
So just by saying some brahmins also do rolling over ecchilelai does not make sense. No man in his sane sense would make an other human roll over his leftover food. Somewhere there is the element of showing one set low and another set high.
We Indians are really so dumb when it comes to religious practice...next i could create a ritual in ujjain; of smearing fresh cowdung from head to toe and eating 5 plates of fresh cowdung everyday for 14 days to cure food poisoning; by saying Lord Mahadev did it Himself just 200 years back.
I will not be surprised to see doctors, engineers, lawyers, officers of public service commissions, businessmen, all pouring in from various parts of India fighting for a place to perform this ritual.
Nice discussion.
Frankly i do not mind the seating arrangement, but i do mind rolling over the ecchilelai practice.
i do not know what skin diseases get cured, but wonder if some actually could have contracted diseases in this medley..
Some say, everyone takes part in such rituals, so whats wrong. However, to me, it remains a fact that various groups evolved over time, and have become brahmins also..i do not think those who came from traditional brahmin families wud take part in this...some say brahmins proper were forbidden from going to temples even...
So just by saying some brahmins also do rolling over ecchilelai does not make sense. No man in his sane sense would make an other human roll over his leftover food. Somewhere there is the element of showing one set low and another set high.
We Indians are really so dumb when it comes to religious practice...next i could create a ritual in ujjain; of smearing fresh cowdung from head to toe and eating 5 plates of fresh cowdung everyday for 14 days to cure food poisoning; by saying Lord Mahadev did it Himself just 200 years back.
I will not be surprised to see doctors, engineers, lawyers, officers of public service commissions, businessmen, all pouring in from various parts of India fighting for a place to perform this ritual.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear HH,
I get your point but my response to this line you wrote ...
....not that I am superstitious but Lord Mahadev swallowed Hala Hala poison for all of us so I guess if the situation warants I am sure many of us wont mind doing what you just wrote with full devotion.
After all what is Cow Dung compared to Hala Hala?
Dont get me wrong but sometime faith even in a unintelligent practise might just work wonders becos of intense faith in God.
People who have
Anjaneya Upadesam can tell instantly and in fact I have a friend who used to tell by applying the eye liner on the betel leaves
He used to say like a film moving and the present status of the problem that is being put before him.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
Peope with Anjaneya Upadesam can tell the caste of a person just by looking at him/her ???????
Paavam Anajaneyar, why bring him into this. He himself was a casteless vanara (jungle dweller), what has he got to do with caste...
Last edited:
/audio-slideshow-karate-champion-lakshmi-has-come-a-long-way-from-her-indian-slum/
here is the story about lakshmi, part of the ongoing series on their struggle and effort at upward mobility published in a very reputable canadian newspaper the toronto globe and mail.
this is an upbeat story, of human endeavour to find dignity and ultimately success, in the face of so many odds.
these stories are true and cannot be denied. i do not think these present india in a bad light. these tell of india, her ancient baggage, and the effort in the current century to emancipate and reach her full potential - in short a true free india.
here is the story about lakshmi, part of the ongoing series on their struggle and effort at upward mobility published in a very reputable canadian newspaper the toronto globe and mail.
this is an upbeat story, of human endeavour to find dignity and ultimately success, in the face of so many odds.
these stories are true and cannot be denied. i do not think these present india in a bad light. these tell of india, her ancient baggage, and the effort in the current century to emancipate and reach her full potential - in short a true free india.
the ashkenazim of india - guess who?
the-ashkenazim-of-india/
here is an interesting read. even more interesting are the comments this blog produced.
it is over the fact that 3 of the 4 noble laureates from india/indian origin are tambrams (ahem!!). why so, this blogger wonders?
why so? answer the comments.
whatever it may be, i do not think we are the ashkenazim of india. there is no ashkenazim of india. or in india.
the-ashkenazim-of-india/
here is an interesting read. even more interesting are the comments this blog produced.
it is over the fact that 3 of the 4 noble laureates from india/indian origin are tambrams (ahem!!). why so, this blogger wonders?
why so? answer the comments.
whatever it may be, i do not think we are the ashkenazim of india. there is no ashkenazim of india. or in india.
I think this person has a rare talent. The afore-mentioned temple should employ her (assuming they employ Iyengars) and pay her handsomely to identify the devotees. There is another name for a closely-related practice: racial profiling.
Renu, eating 5 plates of fresh cowdung is no joke. But if you say faith can make you do it, then i cannot, but bow in reverence to the faith in you. Faith, renu, can bind us in so many ways. But renu, as a doctor , do you feel food poisioning can be cured by eating cowdung?
the-ashkenazim-of-india/
here is an interesting read. even more interesting are the comments this blog produced.
it is over the fact that 3 of the 4 noble laureates from india/indian origin are tambrams (ahem!!). why so, this blogger wonders?
why so? answer the comments.
whatever it may be, i do not think we are the ashkenazim of india. there is no ashkenazim of india. or in india.
Mr. Kunjuppu, my understanding is that Ashkenazism is also a genetic trait. Severe inbreeding among the Ashkenazi Jews may result in Nobel laureates, but they also result in some deadly genetic diseases: Ashkenazi Jewish Genetic Diseases
This brings us to an interesting question. Is TamBrahmism also a genetic trait? Is there sufficient inbreeding? Is there natural selection towards brilliant scientists / mathematicians / chess players? Are there genetic diseases that seem to recur?
K sir,
There is this guy whose father died young and his unlettered mother found employment as a sweeper in a stadium. This guy had extraordinary sports talent, went to become a state lever player. His financial (lack of) background and sports excellence opened up 'sports quota' opportunities in top universities.
This guy went on to become highly qualified, well placed, widely travelled. He married a collegue. The colleague, born and raised overseas (second generation), is aware of caste but maybe is not unduly bothered about it. Maybe her priorities were charted differently. She got herself a charismatic and doting husband placed in upper management cadre.
The guy's mother slogs all day taking care of grandchildren, cooking, cleaning, fetching kids to classes, grocery shopping, etc. This is a rare case where the MIL is not complaining. Instead she is proud of DIL's achievements at work. The DIL acknowledged she cannot manage a day without MIL. Relationship b/w MIL and DIL seems perfectly fine.
The MIL is garralous, is not shy to say she retired as sweeper. Those who bring kids to play in common area do not seem to mind either. Maybe such things do not evoke sharp reactions in indians anymore.
Then there is a case of a lady doing phd in english literature falling in love with a guy who painted houses to make a living. To make matters worse, the guy's mother sold fish and his paternity was unknown. The parents cud nothing and relented for their only child's sake.
They made their sambandhi amma stop selling fish, set up a business for the guy. Looking at the guy no one can tell his mother is from the koli fisherfolk or anything about his background. He stands out like a handsome greek god. This happened in my student days and was much gossiped about.
Within the family, there is this girl who eloped and married a roadside guy, who did particularly nothing. After the initial turmoil and all (involving a police case), things surprisingly settled well. The girl's father set the guy up in a business; and the guy with all his street savvy has turned out smart in running it.
A relative of mom, much older to her, eloped and married a muslim in trichy. I did not even knew she existed. To the family she was dead. In contrast, sometime back the spouse's close relative married a muslim. After the emotional turmoil, parent both sides accepted and they were married. The guy did not convert, but joins in hindu prayers. He wife wud come across as a typical hindu, with bindi, thali and all.
There is yet an other relative who married a christian (the third christian wedding in the family). The couple visits both, temples as well as churches. Looking at them, no one can say which one was hindu and which one was chrisitian, before they got married. I suppose we cud go on with stories of folks who got upwardly mobile either thru education or thru a wedding or both.
There are folks i know of, whose fathers did ordinary or odd jobs. The kids, however, have moved on to well placed positions. None of us wud have expected life wud change like this years back. I suppose the playing field is no longer a circle with few people on the top, few at the bottom and the bulk in the middle of the circle. The playing field is getting flatter. No wonder we have the burgeoning 'middle class'...
Those with hardwork and mettle can manage to come up, and enter into a 'middle-class'...from slum to middle-class, she must be so inspiring to the folks around her...
Biswa, afaik, so far there have been no studies to identify SNPs specific to tambrams for specific diseases. I do not know if the population is sufficiently inbred for such a thing to occur. Yamaka may know better though...
Some say cancer is getting so common, it must be genetic and caste-specific. But then we drink dangerous stuff like pepsi, coke (i dub it cancer water), are exposed to radiation from computers and mobile phones which can damage DNA. We are basically living in a world where electronic stuff use IR light, milk is a concoction of chemicals, etc...its like you cannot escape exposure...
renuka
Well-known member
Dear HH,
You see medically there is treatment for food poisoning which might differ from any traditional belief but when it comes to any religious or faith belief I usually reserve my comments becos I would not want to be swallowing my own words one fine day.
God knows.... one day eating cow dung might even be the cure for some unknown disease yet to come in the future.
lovebird commandos - how many of us have heard of this?
-the-love-commandos
in today's front page of the print edition of toronto globe and mail, we have the pix of veer and puja, as part of globe's ongoing series investigating the complexities of india's caste system.
today's article deals with inter caste (apparently more objections here) and inter religion (almost equal opposition but ic beats ir according to the article) love affairs and marriages.
again, my purpose, is to show the public, how the world views us. the more we know how they see us, the better we can deal with it. not all of what the world hears may be right or factual, but papers like the globe, have a reading of canada's ruling elite and business class ie the people who make the decisions.
the globe finds india imporant enough to have a resident canadian reporter and we get regular dispatches printed with an insight that may be different from the way indians perceive themselves.
i think india is moving in the right direction regarding caste elimination. we are a society in turmoil, and those that are caught in the wrong side of this equation, have angsts, angsts for lost priviliges which appeared to be only fair to some, and to others, equally unfair.
today's quotas, and fights, for and against, are but another chapter, along the road to eventual equality, equality that may not be achieved in our lifetime. but may be by the end of this century!
meanwhile, enjoy a ride with the 'love commandos' of new delhi
-the-love-commandos
in today's front page of the print edition of toronto globe and mail, we have the pix of veer and puja, as part of globe's ongoing series investigating the complexities of india's caste system.
today's article deals with inter caste (apparently more objections here) and inter religion (almost equal opposition but ic beats ir according to the article) love affairs and marriages.
again, my purpose, is to show the public, how the world views us. the more we know how they see us, the better we can deal with it. not all of what the world hears may be right or factual, but papers like the globe, have a reading of canada's ruling elite and business class ie the people who make the decisions.
the globe finds india imporant enough to have a resident canadian reporter and we get regular dispatches printed with an insight that may be different from the way indians perceive themselves.
i think india is moving in the right direction regarding caste elimination. we are a society in turmoil, and those that are caught in the wrong side of this equation, have angsts, angsts for lost priviliges which appeared to be only fair to some, and to others, equally unfair.
today's quotas, and fights, for and against, are but another chapter, along the road to eventual equality, equality that may not be achieved in our lifetime. but may be by the end of this century!
meanwhile, enjoy a ride with the 'love commandos' of new delhi
timeline (guess) re spread of caste concept in india
again, this is in today's toronto globe and mail.
timeline-a-brief-history-of-indias-caste-system
i have to confess, that i did not know about this. nor did i ever think about this.
also, this
caste-a-turbulent-history/
and here are questions posed by canadians to annie namala, dalit scholar. these questions, are, i find, blankly to the point, and innocent, in their content. the biggest quandry for me: is one sent by brenda paquette, .how an advanced spiritual system such as Hinduism can support the huge inequality of the caste system and the disrespect it showers on life'.
if any of the members here, who tend to treat the indignities shown to dalits lightly, or who tend to believe in the superior birth of brahmins, this query alone, should make them think twice. how can we be so cruel?
[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/breaking-caste/qa-annie-namala-takes-your-questions-about-caste/]-annie-namala-takes-your-questions-about-caste/article2254991/[/URL]
again, this is in today's toronto globe and mail.
timeline-a-brief-history-of-indias-caste-system
i have to confess, that i did not know about this. nor did i ever think about this.
also, this
caste-a-turbulent-history/
and here are questions posed by canadians to annie namala, dalit scholar. these questions, are, i find, blankly to the point, and innocent, in their content. the biggest quandry for me: is one sent by brenda paquette, .how an advanced spiritual system such as Hinduism can support the huge inequality of the caste system and the disrespect it showers on life'.
if any of the members here, who tend to treat the indignities shown to dalits lightly, or who tend to believe in the superior birth of brahmins, this query alone, should make them think twice. how can we be so cruel?
[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/breaking-caste/qa-annie-namala-takes-your-questions-about-caste/]-annie-namala-takes-your-questions-about-caste/article2254991/[/URL]
கருப்பாயி என்கிற நூர்ஜஹான்
karuppaayi ..
in 1981, in meenakshipuram, thirunelveli, a whole dalit village Converted to islam, as they had had enough of caste based insults from the
upper castes (thevars here btw..not that it makes any difference to the dalits).
About in 1990 or so, 10 years after the incident, I read an article somewhere… re what happened since. The article reported, about the
new mosque, but otherwise life was peaceful and things normal.
Now comes this novel, written by a newly converted muslim. … re while he got respect with islam, within islam he is still at the bottom…
I have also read about castes in islam, and someone who tried to fight it, and suffered for it…. Unfortunately I cannot find the url for
that article..which was written by the reformer…
karuppaayi ..
in 1981, in meenakshipuram, thirunelveli, a whole dalit village Converted to islam, as they had had enough of caste based insults from the
upper castes (thevars here btw..not that it makes any difference to the dalits).
About in 1990 or so, 10 years after the incident, I read an article somewhere… re what happened since. The article reported, about the
new mosque, but otherwise life was peaceful and things normal.
Now comes this novel, written by a newly converted muslim. … re while he got respect with islam, within islam he is still at the bottom…
I have also read about castes in islam, and someone who tried to fight it, and suffered for it…. Unfortunately I cannot find the url for
that article..which was written by the reformer…
sangom
0
Caste-based inequality is such a thing that muslims, christians, sikhs, why, even jains have this in their midst. This can be removed only when marriages happen across castes at least within each of these communities. But that is a long way to go!
As per the practice of the people criss-crossing, I promise you there will be more number of Brahmins to be content with as a good number of NBs, boy or girl, are happy to call themselves as half-Brahmins or whole-Brahmins. Indeed, a welcome prospect!
sangom
0
In my school days such half-brahmins, ara-pattars or, as one Malayalam munshi once jocularly remarked, "saami saamis" (Saami in sanskritized Malayalam means half; saami was also the usual address of a brahmin by NBs in Travancore.) were not so rare, thanks to the many "sambandhams" of tabras.
Yesterday I happened to read in a book, where in a sloka titled Rajatarangini of Kalhana
composed sometime during 11th Century CE. It says Pancha Gauda Brahmins - people
hailing from North India i.e. north of Vindhya Mountains and Pancha-Dravida - people
of South of Vindhya Mountains.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
composed sometime during 11th Century CE. It says Pancha Gauda Brahmins - people
hailing from North India i.e. north of Vindhya Mountains and Pancha-Dravida - people
of South of Vindhya Mountains.
Balasubramanian
Ambattur
sangom,
I had a very unusual experience last week here at a tambram get together.
One of the regulars is a malayali family, whose antecedents involved the one of the ruling families of kerala. This gentleman has a very classy wife. All of these are in their 60s.
There was a heated discussion about caste, reservations and periyar, and for the first time, yours truly spoke out my usual views expounded here.
The malayali gentleman took me aside, and revealed that his wife’s grandfather was a pattar, and acknowledged relationship. I asked how the wife felt about it, and also the attitudes of Toronto tambrams?
Last edited:
- Status
Share this page
Similar threads
- Locked
Share this page
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Catering service required for Grahapravesam function in OMR, Chennai
- Latest: vivekanandaravichandran
