• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Discrimination - can it be stopped?

Status
Not open for further replies.

prasad1

Well-known member
According to UN:Understanding Discrimination - print

Your birth, religion, race, height, nationality, language, education, money and even your gender are factors that most people make quick judgments about. Unfortunately, many of these judgments are based on biases and assumptions.

Can we eliminate or should we even try to eliminate discrimination? I do not think it is possible.

The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.

The society should change through education and economics.

In US social discrimination goes on, forced integration is very difficult. The middle class runs from poor neighborhood. Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate.

There is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
prasad,

are we not defined by our sense of discrimination. i mean the word in a 'meaning neutral' term.

we discriminate against somebody, something, some ideas, peoples, religions.

same way, we discriminate or prejudiced for somebody, something, some ideas, peoples, religions.

that is what makes us humans. even the goodest of people hate. they hate the bad, dont they?

so what you are demand, is unreasonable.

n'est pas? :)
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr K,
My very point. I see in various post people saying 'stop discriminating'. I think it is an unfinished sentence without qualification. So when we say stop discrimination we have to qualify it by specifying what discrimination we are talking about.

I am not demanding anything, I am just raising awareness of the meaning of the word discrimination.
 
Last edited:

biswa

New member
But the big reservation debate aside, how many people here have really been hurt by discrimination? I must confess that I have not been victimized by discrimination (yet). Isolated nastiness by various groups yest, but not discrimination. Of course I don't care if white people invite me to their SuperBowl parties or will ever consider my son as a dating option for their daughter. Other than that I think if you have something to offer: money, brains, hard work, you should get by fine.
 

sangom

Well-known member
According to UN:Understanding Discrimination - print

Your birth, religion, race, height, nationality, language, education, money and even your gender are factors that most people make quick judgments about. Unfortunately, many of these judgments are based on biases and assumptions.

Can we eliminate or should we even try to eliminate discrimination? I do not think it is possible.

The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.

The society should change through education and economics.

In US social discrimination goes on, forced integration is very difficult. The middle class runs from poor neighborhood. Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate.

There is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc.

Dear Shri Prasad,

You seem to be bent on "calling a spade a spade": but will the other immigrants from India or elsewhere to US agree? I very much doubt.

When I wrote that that only certain population segments do the lowly menial jobs in the US and these segments are discriminated in very subtle manner, Yamaka was quick to refute it citing Obama, Clinton and 'millions of other instances'.

So, I will be more interested in knowing how you respond to these'justifications' by people who intend to paint a glorious image of US even though they will agree that MLK did a phenomenal job for the African Americans. May be everything is hunky dory now, I don't know.

How do you view the fact that "Even in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate."?

There is a saying in Malayalam, "enthum ceyyaam mahataam" meaning, people considered great can do anything (they have the licence for that). To me it looks as though it should be amended slightly to "enthum ceyyaam american saayippinum madaamaikkum". The opinions of Kunjuppu and Biswa seem to strengthen this view, imho.
 
Last edited:

sangom

Well-known member
Why is discrimination of other forms compared to discrimination in front of God?

It is so miserably shameful to think that a social empire of discrimination was created from "spiritual imperialism", and continues to stem from spiritual arrogance with a ridiculous attitude of "only me spiritual".

How can anyone oppress and suppress people using violence, or endorse such things, and then claim to be spiritual people with sattva gunas, i wonder..

Surely such people must be entered into the guinness book of world records, for no one before them or after them would ever think of creating or upholding such an abominable system.

Happy,

"Discrimination" in the ordinary and all-pervading sense means 'to distinguish', 'to separate', 'to treat differently on some basis', etc. As Shri Kunjuppu has said in post#3, are we not defined by our sense of discrimination in a 'meaning neutral' sense of the word? Further he adds that it is this 'discrimination' that makes us humans. He is therefore of the view that what Prasad demands, is unreasonable.

This opens to me an as yet unseen aspect of discrimination to me. Any 'egalitarian' society by the 'meaning neutral' sense of the term should have no discrimination and there must be complete equality of all people. But now it looks as though there is, strictly speaking, no true egalitarian society, despite some claims to that effect. And it becomes a simple question of "my discrimination is good and salutary, yours is bad and devilish". I find it difficult to endorse such a view. If one set of discrimination in the US (in Football teams the black players and white players do not integrate; there is strong enforcement of laws against discrimination based on race, color, gender, or disability in housing, jobs etc., which underscores the possibility of such discrimination happening in the absense of these laws and their strict enforcement) is creditable and praiseworthy, then why not another set of discrimination based on some other yardstick in some other place?

I feel Shri Senthil, Shri Suraju et al are right in their views, after all.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Dear Sangom Sir,

Am disappointed to read your post. How can anyone compare racism in the US, and casteism in India.

Am often baffled where is the equivalence of comparison, between racism and casteism. And why do people quote racism / other forms of discrimination as though that somehow justifes casteism.

To me, casteism is the grand ancestor of racism, its a more dangerous beast than racism. It plays on the "religious mind" and breaks the very spirit of a man.

To inflict violence on a man, suppress him into slavery, categorise him as fit for only one birth, declare him not releasable from slavery, to deny him certain rituals, and allow him only certain stuff (to time and again show him he is not capable of anything more in the scheme of god-realisation), is comparable to racism???

Between apples and oranges, the only common thing is both are fruits and share some common nutrients. Similarly the only commonality between racism and casteism is violence and slavery. Apart from that i wud never draw an equivalence between both.

Racism is not enmeshed as part of rituals into a religion. Racism is an open enemy. It can be fought against. But casteism works its way thru "spiritualism" over generations, it works its way into a man's spirit, breaks it down and makes him beleive he is fit for only that much.

Frankly sir, i think casteism is a frankenstein monstor created and honed by the feudal laws of dharmashastras. If brahmins stood to gain from so-called 'middle-castes' during colonial period and vice-versa, then all that anti-brahmanism (and politics associated with it), would not have happened.

Maybe Time decided enuf is enuf. Maybe Kalki came and went, and cud do nothing. Maybe Bali came (as Indra), so did Savarni Manu; and both cud do nothing.

We are living way ahead in the technological world, i feel. So Time had to do something about it. And here we are.

If even now, some people continue to draw equivalence whereever possible, merely to somehow justify casteism, dunno what else to say. Hope they just take note, the future does not belong to them.

What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Happy,
You do great injustice to me and my post. You either did not understand my post or chose to interpret it in your narrow view.
What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.

If you read my original post it very clearly says that birth based discrimination should be eliminated.

The discrimination outlawed by the country and some other birth based discrimination should be stopped.

By the way my post never mentioned caste, I suppose you need to see the true world, please remove your caste colored glasses.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Sangom sir,
Any 'egalitarian' society by the 'meaning neutral' sense of the term should have no discrimination and there must be complete equality of all people. But now it looks as though there is, strictly speaking, no true egalitarian society, despite some claims to that effect.

You are absolutely right, to envisage a society without some discrimination is an Utopian dream, and even not desired.
For example we do want excellence in life and that itself is a discrimination. For instance discrimination based on intelligence, education, ingenuity, etc is desired in job environment.
Similarly personal discrimination in social life is not controlled by law, and condoned by law. I can discriminate as to who can be my friend, and is same is true for you.

By law certain forms of discrimination is illegal (depending on the location). There are other aberrant practices that should be outlawed, and we should work on it. For instance in US the Hispanic Americans are suspected of being illegal and discriminated, and that is wrong.
 
Last edited:

ozone

Active member
What i sense in the posts of prasad1 and suraju is not about lack of a true egalitarian society, its about somehow justifying casteism infact.
Quite the contrary. Caste based discriminations have long been forgotten by the junta. They exists only for political reasons.
Infact they resurface only in verbose form if only to keep the more prevalent discriminations from being given a critical view
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
Dear sangom,

I would not go that far to as to term ‘right after all’ to senthil or even suraju, a dear friend, but with whom I disagree more often..

Personally, I would reserve the term ‘right after all’, only to those who discriminate the same way as I do – ie same likes and dislikes. I think that is human nature, to seek and company of like minded folks.

At the same time, I should confess to prejudices, some of which may be surprising to some, and disgusting to others, even in this very forum. Ofcourse, I will not titillate anyone by listing them ha ha, but it only emphasizes that being human is to be filled with likes and dislikes, in almost all aspects of our life – right from food to attitudes and everything else in between.

There are prejudices that violate what we hold as universal values. To me, one such, is equality before God, which manu, brahminism as I understand it, and the perpetrators of the same. To me, government enforced regulations to set right historic path, is only someone ‘doing the right thing’ unlike many folks here, who think, reservations and quotas in colleges and jobs, is discriminatory against the Brahmins. To me, this is an example of comfortable selective amnesia by the Brahmins – forgetting the millenniums of exclusion of dalits from mainstream, and beating their breasts over some attempt to right the wrongs. And that too for the past 70 years.

The llist of parayars provided by sarang is pathetic. The dalits are 25 – 30% of the population I think, and look at the list. how many educationists are there? how many sports leaders are there? is this not the example of a community suppressed. He has listed meena kandasami (I am a fan of hers), but does he or anyone know the travails of dr. vasantha kandasami, her mother, a phd. And the insults she had to put up at iit madras, by the Brahmin dominated faculty? One dalit. And no one accommodate her. That is the sad fact of today.

I am only commenting on sarang’s list, which anyone could have produced and which probably was lifted from the internet. A dhanush or ilayaraja is not enough to show that dalits are mainstream participants of tamil hindu society. To claim otherwise, I think, is dishonest and much more.

The word ‘parayan’ itself, in my household, meant something so demeaning, that I dare not repeat it here. I am quite sure, it was the same in all Brahmin households. Let us not claim innocence. I am more with happy hindu, in the cunning instigative skills of casteism, and today, our whipping boys are the middle castes, except these same, have also come to bite the hand that fed them intellectually. Poetic justice, in a strange form.

Biswa, I think today 1 in 10 desi marriages in the usa/Canada is to a white. This, based only on the folks I know and my own family. A desi would prefer a white any day to a marriage to a muslim or a black, or worse African, African muslim in that order. This is what defines a desi today in north America. I do not know if biswa is in the usa. If you are here for a long time, and of the social kind to make friends with the whites, you will find no ending invitations to super bowl or Halloween parties.

There is no broad based ‘white people’ who have a grand plan to exclude desis from their social circle. In fact the reverse is true. Whenever I have tambram gatherings at my home, I studiously avoid inviting certain relatives of mine who is married to a white or black. More because the few times when I did, these were excluded in all the chit chats, and ended up watching TV by themselves.

this too in canada. where the invitees have spent 30 years or so. still the need to cling only to fellow paappaans over drinks and gossip. such is life. these are my friends, and much as i like their company, i have to exclude certain other folks, to accommodate to their prejudices. such is reality of life!! we cannot but accommodate prejudice in our day to day life, if we are make a living or be part of society.

finally, for anyone trying to justify casteism, here is a story of self inflicted defeat. we all might remember lakshmipuram, that village, where the dalit mass converted to islam 20 years or so ago. a few years ago, a journalist visited the village and found this. the dalits no longer bothered the caste hindus, because no they had their own mosque. the hitherto insulted were now imams and the previous oppressors, now addressed these as 'bhais', which is a common term of reference to muslims in tamil nadu. literally in a village, we drove 30% of the population to islam through our prejudice. now what do you make of this? does one in today's india have to convert to islam or christianity to get dignity and respect? why do we automatically bestow respect to a muslim or christian, yet treat our own like the dirt underneath our feet? strange strange things casteism does. and we have apologists for manu still in our society.
 
Last edited:

Nara

Well-known member
...This opens to me an as yet unseen aspect of discrimination to me. Any 'egalitarian' society by the 'meaning neutral' sense of the term should have no discrimination and there must be complete equality of all people.
Shri sangom sir, "egalitarian" society to me is not one in which everyone is perfectly equal, but one in which people have the same equal opportunity as anybody else to make anything out of themselves. This is also not easy to achieve. Here in the land of the free Chelsea Clinton is hired by NBC as special correspondent not based on her proven track record of journalistic excellence, so were Meghan McCain and Jenna Bush.

But, IMO, such cases, or the dubious claim players do not integrate, must not be taken as proof of the failure of the egalitarian ideal itself, or worse, oppressive and exploitative discrimination like the varna/jAti system is inevitable and must be endured.

Some people will always enjoy birth-based advantages, but as a society we must try to (i) dismantle oppressive discrimination and (ii) ensure all of its members are able to pursue their goals based on their hard work and perseverance. The only socio-political system that can move a society towards this goal is liberal, representative, constitutional democracy that protects minority rights.

Cheers!
 

suraju06

Well-known member
The only socio-political system that can move a society towards this goal is liberal, representative, constitutional democracy that protects minority rights.

Well said. In Indian Context are brahmins a minority or not? And should their rights be protected or not like that of the Muslims, Parsies, Jains, Narikkoravas etc.,?
 

sangom

Well-known member
Smt. HappyHindu,

My position in this matter is that it is necessary to record our disfavour on all types of

discrimination, whether caste-based, or race-based or on any other basis. I do not find

any significant differences as between caste-based discrimination and racism, despite

your arguments. What I object to strongly is the double standards - looking at the

racial discriminations aginst AAs and Latin Americans as something not very bad and

criticizing the Indian caste system with hellish fury as though the whole world is one

beautiful egalitarian system and only India with its castes is the only single blot on

humanity.

I suppose the AAs have their black churches and do not go to the whites' churches

where they are not favoured. You may say the sudras were denied their own temples

but that is only a partially true statement because almost all castes right down to the

doms had their own gods, kuldevata temples and priests for those.

Your comparison to "apples and oranges" is, I am glad to say, truth in its own way.

Both are fruits, tasty and some like one better, others the other. Both are basically

harmless and can be used for healthy living. Then why should some people start an

anti-apple (for example) campaign and cry hoarse about its bad effects and keep quiet

as if orange has no bad quality at all and is very desirable and eating orange is

crediatble?

Shri Kunjuppu,

I feel you will have noticed by now that I am talking about society discriminating -

showing differential treatments to some sections which that society itself

acknowledges as part of it. It is not about the likes & dislikes at the individual level.

But supposing there is a small neighbourhood in which one person or family does not

allow a certain individual to come into the neighbourhood and all the rest of the

people in that neighbourhood also individually feel similarly. Then that particular

person will become a persona non-grata in that neighbourhood. May be that person

belongs to a group similar to the 'thieves' villages' of Tamil Nadu whence gangs come

and commit thefts in Kerala often. In such a situation, all people from that thieves'

colony will become "no-entry" people in the neighbourhood first referred to. Can this

be objected to as discrimination or is this to be legally allowed as individual

discrimination?

I don't know how you will answer, but discrimination, if it is to be allowed at the

individual level, will easily become group discrimination, imo. Hence what I feel is that

we cannot discriminate between different kinds of discriminations and have to voice

our opposition to any kind of discrimination, except those permiited by the law of the

land.

Shri prasad,

Preference for excellence, imo, may not be viewed by law as a form of pernicious

discriminatory practice; if you need a carpenter you will like to hire the best carpenter

who will give you the best value for money, and it may not be sensible to compel you

to hire a musician for that job, merely because he is the first applicant!
 

amala

Well-known member
What I object to strongly is the double standards - looking at the

racial discriminations aginst AAs and Latin Americans as something not very bad and

criticizing the Indian caste system with hellish fury as though the whole world is one

beautiful egalitarian system and only India with its castes is the only single blot on

humanity.

I suppose the AAs have their black churches and do not go to the whites' churches

where they are not favoured. You may say the sudras were denied their own temples

but that is only a partially true statement because almost all castes right down to the

doms had their own gods, kuldevata temples and priests for those.

Well said Shri Sangom. Even I don't see how its different discrimination colour/religion and caste. Discrimination is discrimination. Having said that at the end of the day people like MLK fought to establish civil rights for the AA legally. But thats all one can do - legislate. Legislature will never make people who are inherently prejudiced/racist/ call it what you will change their minds or more importantly their hearts.

So discrimination will always exists on a social/individual level. This is purely based on my observation and exposure of people. You can make laws but you cannot change people's hearts, sadly. It has to come from deep within oneself. People need to question and introspect why they act the way they do. Having laws will just make one not show their racism openly at work/school etcetc but it wont ever remove it. They will still hang out with who they choose to and go to places or worship where their ethnicity worship and probably give jobs to their own type.

People will always find a reason to discriminate. If its not religion, its race. If its not race, its caste. Even if you remove caste people will still find something else to discriminate about. This is inevitable and sadly I don't see such a thing changing anytime soon!
 

sangom

Well-known member
Well said Shri Sangom. Even I don't see how its different discrimination colour/religion and caste. Discrimination is discrimination. Having said that at the end of the day people like MLK fought to establish civil rights for the AA legally. But thats all one can do - legislate. Legislature will never make people who are inherently prejudiced/racist/ call it what you will change their minds or more importantly their hearts.

So discrimination will always exists on a social/individual level. This is purely based on my observation and exposure of people. You can make laws but you cannot change people's hearts, sadly. It has to come from deep within oneself. People need to question and introspect why they act the way they do. Having laws will just make one not show their racism openly at work/school etcetc but it wont ever remove it. They will still hang out with who they choose to and go to places or worship where their ethnicity worship and probably give jobs to their own type.

People will always find a reason to discriminate. If its not religion, its race. If its not race, its caste. Even if you remove caste people will still find something else to discriminate about. This is inevitable and sadly I don't see such a thing changing anytime soon!

Smt amala,

Or is it Kum. Amala? Excuse me if I made a mistake. I thank you for your support to me. What I find particularly striking is that members who very strongly criticize the caste system in India and brahmins for it, nicely try to sweep the discrimination in US, under the carpet, so to say. Every tom, dick and harry from india now visits the US and/or UK and European countries (Schengen Visa countries) and most people know that the blacks are the Dalit/pancaman counterpart in those countries. And if they have one BHO, india had K.R. Narayanan.

I will be happy if our vociferous members now stop trying to eradicate castes from india and try doing something to voice their views against discriminations in their adopted countries.
 

Nara

Well-known member
Well said. In Indian Context are brahmins a minority or not? And should their rights be protected or not like that of the Muslims, Parsies, Jains, Narikkoravas etc.,?
Raju, Muslims, Parsees and Jains are religious minorities and the right to practice their religion must be protected. Narikuravan is an oppressed jAti grouping and they must be given the opportunity and assistance to improve their lot, both socially and economically. What kind of minority would Brahmins be, given they occupy the upper most hierarchical echelons of the dominant religion, Hinduism? Brahmins are part of the majority religion and theirs is one of privileged castes. What minority protection would they qualify for?

Even so, I will support the right of a person belonging to Brahmin caste to practice his religion the way he wants to, as long as it does not cross over to the public sphere affecting other people of their fundamental rights guaranteed under the constitution.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:

sangom

Well-known member
Shri prasad,

Shri Nara says your observation to the effect that white and black foot ball players do not integrate, is a dubious claim. What is your stand on this and on what basis did you make your statement, please?
 

Nara

Well-known member
Smt amala,
Or is it Kum. Amala?
It is Kumari :)!

What I find particularly striking is that members who very strongly criticize the caste system in India and brahmins for it, nicely try to sweep the discrimination in US, under the carpet, so to say.
If anybody is doing this I would join you in condemning them, could you please be more specific as to who is doing it, in what way?

I certainly agree that castiesm and racism are both ugly and to be condemned thoroughly. Racism is illegal in U.S. and the government has enacted laws to prevent racism from all public spheres, both governmental and private companies. They have strong affirmative action programs to help the historically oppressed Americans achieve their full potential. India has done well in this regard as well. India has strong reservation system, but the difference is, it is only in education and Government jobs. There is no affirmative action program of any kind in private companies, but in the U.S. any large enough company must show their hiring and promotion policies result in fair representation of the community both race and gender wise. The onus of proof is upon the company.

Racism in the U.S. and casteism in India share one more similarity, both are alive and kicking. Racism often lurking just below the surface. But the big difference is, in the U.S. except for some lunatic fringe, nobody tolerates overt racism. No public official however mighty can express racially motivated comments and not face swift disgrace. The run of the mill racist has to hide his racism. In contrast, in India, casteism is in full display. Caste-based discrimination occurs routinely in a matter of fact manner. Nobody thinks there is anything wrong in practicing casteism. That I think is one important difference.

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr. Nara,
But, IMO, such cases, or the dubious claim players do not integrate, must not be taken as proof of the failure of the egalitarian ideal itself,

Dubious Huh? Do you claim that privately people in USA do not have prejudice? You must be living under some rock.

That said your point is similar to mine.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Well said Shri Sangom. Even I don't see how its different discrimination colour/religion and caste. Discrimination is discrimination. Having said that at the end of the day people like MLK fought to establish civil rights for the AA legally. But thats all one can do - legislate. Legislature will never make people who are inherently prejudiced/racist/ call it what you will change their minds or more importantly their hearts.

So discrimination will always exists on a social/individual level. This is purely based on my observation and exposure of people. You can make laws but you cannot change people's hearts, sadly. It has to come from deep within oneself. People need to question and introspect why they act the way they do. Having laws will just make one not show their racism openly at work/school etcetc but it wont ever remove it. They will still hang out with who they choose to and go to places or worship where their ethnicity worship and probably give jobs to their own type.

People will always find a reason to discriminate. If its not religion, its race. If its not race, its caste. Even if you remove caste people will still find something else to discriminate about. This is inevitable and sadly I don't see such a thing changing anytime soon!

Well said.
 

Nara

Well-known member
...Dubious Huh? Do you claim that privately people in USA do not have prejudice? You must be living under some rock. .
prasad1, the rock under which I live has many shades of grey, it is not black and white like the players don't integrate or there is no prejudice.

Anyway, please do answer Shri Sangom's question, namely, on what basis do you make this claim that the players don't integrate.

Cheers!
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Smt amala,

Or is it Kum. Amala? Excuse me if I made a mistake. I thank you for your support to me. What I find particularly striking is that members who very strongly criticize the caste system in India and brahmins for it, nicely try to sweep the discrimination in US, under the carpet, so to say. Every tom, dick and harry from india now visits the US and/or UK and European countries (Schengen Visa countries) and most people know that the blacks are the Dalit/pancaman counterpart in those countries. And if they have one BHO, india had K.R. Narayanan.

I will be happy if our vociferous members now stop trying to eradicate castes from india and try doing something to voice their views against discriminations in their adopted countries.

Sir Sangom, I have been saying what you so beautifully phrased it. The past is spilled milk, let us move on with the present, and future.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
dear sangom,

i am not sure how to answer your queries. i live in canada, where 30+ years when i came, it was impossible to find a job if you were non white. today 1 1/2 generation of nonwhites have been born and grown up here.

we have MLAs MPs who are non whites. these are not tokens. they have to stand for elections just like in india. my children do not talk about being discriminated against, and in our case, almost all their friends are white. it just happened that way.

they will be free to date and marry whites. when they attend music conerts or theatre, they just join the hordes of screaming crowds without being set aside as someone from another country. nobody tells my kids, 'go back to where you come from', something that was often heard 30 years ago.

there are no exclusive white areas in toronto, though there are low income group areas, fraught with drug dealers and some crime.

we have a huge black caribbean immigrant population here, and their participation in all sorts of criminal activities is way out of proportion to their percentage of population. nobody can understand as to why the blacks alone of all immigrant groups, did not take to, the opportunities that canada afforded, and the new generation even more entrenched in crime.

various ethnic groups are stereotyped in somewhat ways. we have a ukrainian maid. she is thorough and satisfies my finnicky wife, which the previous madis from caribbean or phillipines or mexico did not. today my wife would prefer anyday a european maid to clean the house, only because, for the same money, she gets better service.

educationwise, there was this talk that due to the jewish establishment, that admissions to medical colleges will be perserved as was, and immigrant children will not get a fair deal. there are now more chinese students in the medical colleges (over 40% in university of toronto), and indians in fair number. if at all anything, the anglo saxons are under represented, along with other groups. there are hardly any black or filipinos. there is one somali female doctor.

in one generation, indians have risen upto top echelons of government in canada. and to some extent in the usa. the chief minister of one of our provinces was an immigrant sikh ujjal dosanjh, who came to canada only in 1967 or 68. nikki haley daughter of sikh immigrant is a governor of a u.s. state. likewise bobby jindal, son of another immigrant.

29 year old athika sitsabeisan became the first MP of tamil descent. she is not a token one. it was a hard fought election, which she beat canada born white lady. i think, when we talk of a tolerant society, we are talking of giving equal opportunities to all its citizens, both in body and mind.

fortunately, barring its abominal treatment of its aboriginal people, since 1967 when it opened its doors to the whole world, canada has kept up its word, that it will transform itself into a fair multicultural society. that much credit we should give the white anglo saxon establishment which made it possible. the situation in quebec maybe different. i dont know.

if we compare that in india, we still have villages where dalits are not allowed to walk on certain streets. maybe it is that fact, that riles many of us, especially those who live abroad. our sensitivies are sharpened, due to the fact, that we ourselves are minorities in the countries where we live, and are afforded so much liberty and freedom, that very freedom is afforded to sections of our own, our own with whom we have shared the land for milleniums. in any new country they immigrate, barring the mid east, indians are the foremost to assert their rights, even before understanding the host culture and civilities. fortunately with the next generation, things settle down.

so, i think, on a society level, the perception of discrimination is comparative. to a tambram, the current quotas in jobs and college admissions, is discriminatory and unfair. to the OBC and dalit, this is social engineering, for the upliftment of the society.

which is why i would like to go back to my earlier post: that all of us are discriminatory. that is what defines us. it is just when our prejudices violates moral norms or universal truths, that we need to introspect.

hope this explains.. somewhat. or maybe, all is clear as mud, as the canadians would say. :)

ps.. i have a hindu nadar female friend from the village of k****i in southern tamil nadu. ilayaraja was from the same area. she used to narrate stories of how her father and his friends used to chase raja from the main village streets when they were young. it was apparently a popular teenager pasttime to run in dalit boys...

she told me that there were no brahmins in the village. or had ever been. yet she has an inborn complex against urban convent educated brahmin girls and their poise and suaveness. this, coming from, though a village born girl, now an excellent writer in english, a post graduate from a london univeristy with a senior job and resident in england. i cant figure this out :(
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
Mr. Sangom,
A 1999 Pentagon survey revealed that racism is still rife in the US military, after 79% of Hispanic and 76% of both African-American and American Indian active-duty service personnel reported that they had experienced offensive behaviour on account of their race. A report by the Applied Research Center released in March 2000 concluded that minority students are discriminated against in US public schools, as they are less likely to be accepted into advanced classes and gifted programs, they are suspended or expelled more often than white students, and the proportion of minority teachers is seldom as high as that of minority students.
Racial prejudice - Hutchinson encyclopedia article about Racial prejudiceRacial prejudice among some white Americans—even if unintentional—influences their views of President Barack Obama's "Americanism" and their assessment of how well he is performing in office, according to a University of Delaware doctoral student.
Award-winning research shows racial bias influences views of Obama
USA Network's New 'United or Divided' Poll Shows Americans Believe Racial, Ethnic, Political Divisions are Worse Than Just a Year Ago.

USA Network's New 'United or Divided' Poll Shows Americans Believe Racial, Ethnic,... -- NEW YORK, Dec. 8, 2010 /PRNewswire/ --
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks