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Debates and Arguments

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a-TB

Active member
I read somewhere (perhaps even here) that debates are to figure out WHAT is right and arguments are to show WHO is right.

In arguments ego has the most role. Content does not matter. It is to tell others you won who also do not care because they are absorbed in their egoic thinking LOL

In debates ego is subordinated to finding out what is right and opponents have the same goal which is to know what is right.

In forums like this people can get carried away and start saying things that go against the forum guidelines (not just the rules).

If a thread degenerates due to arguments, then sometimes the thread is altogether gotten rid of which is the right thing to do.

In arguments with ego flaring there are attacks at a personal level. However it is best if the attacks are on the content.

Knowing this distinction is key to avoid degeneration of threads.

I have challenged, some may say attacked the content. Of late, I have not attacked anyone because it is silly to attack someone I do not know. All we know are what a person claims. Most use a user name which is not their real name anyway.

But attacking or challenging statements made is fair game. If some statements have hatred against any group, exposing that content for what it is , again is not an attack but a service.

Sometimes a person is out of words and cannot argue, much less debate. Then they resort to name calling sometimes using nasty words and profanity. That is a clear defeat and such people are not worth the time to argue with. Of course if such people again write content that is illogical and possibly hurtful they can be challenged.

Best is to challenge content and stay in that goal as focus and not attack anyone personally, even while trying to understand the motivation of a piece of content.

What say you....
 

naithru

Active member
Mr. a-TB says...In arguments ego has the most role. Content does not matter. It is to tell others you won who also do not care because they are absorbed in their egoic thinking LOL
ha ha ha , ... I remember this
All arguments have two sides, and some have no ends
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Hilarious to see people who attack others personally or put Jalra to those who attack others personally want to claim moral high ground.

After reading entire ramayanam, if one asks sitayiku Raman Chittappa ?, it only shows the the questioners poor intellectual capability - unfortunate but true. Similar to asking me basic questions after the 100s of posts I posted on "my view" of the "history" of our culture over the years. I can understand new members will not have read them, but for someone in the forum for a long time, what can one say.

My advise to people - hatred always always destroys those who harbour them. Be careful what you sow in life. Learn to give respect and take respect first. Love people and not hate them.

This is why this govt collapsed under its own disastrous self goals. No one forced them to make such mistakes.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Just because someone refuses to answer should not be construed as not having an answer, it is a foolish assumption.

No offence to anyone. Let's take 2 examples.

1. Lord Ayyappan culture - Lord Ayyappan is w tribal God and the tantris in Sabarimala temple are not Brahmins. Now some Tamil Brahmins worship Ayyappan.

So is the culture and traditions surrounding Ayyappan are Tamil Brahmin culture or Tamil Non Brahmin culture Or just Tamil culture ?

2. Bharatanatyam - This is largely practiced only by Tamil Brahmins now. But in history it was only practiced by devadasis till this system was abolished post independence. Brahmin or upper caste girls never danced in public in the past. We TBs adopted this only after independence. Should we then classify this under Tamil culture ??

3. Sage Valimiki writes one of the most important epic Ramayanam, and he is a non Brahmin as per his own accounts.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
By the way, all these points were discussed and debated already in my earlier threads on history at length.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Only fools will assume "not answering" to "out of words or cannot argue". Lol.

The stupidly is astounding after "answers and supporting evidences" were already given and discussed so many times in 100s of posts.

Only those who have "absolute zero content" will spend their entire time questioning others. Not a single thread of worthwhile contribution from them !!

Finally, have the common sense to pick an enemy whom you can win against, who is weak, cannot debate well. it is foolish to pick a fight with medavis !!
 

renuka

Well-known member
I read somewhere (perhaps even here) that debates are to figure out WHAT is right and arguments are to show WHO is right.

In arguments ego has the most role. Content does not matter. It is to tell others you won who also do not care because they are absorbed in their egoic thinking LOL

In debates ego is subordinated to finding out what is right and opponents have the same goal which is to know what is right.

In forums like this people can get carried away and start saying things that go against the forum guidelines (not just the rules).

If a thread degenerates due to arguments, then sometimes the thread is altogether gotten rid of which is the right thing to do.

In arguments with ego flaring there are attacks at a personal level. However it is best if the attacks are on the content.

Knowing this distinction is key to avoid degeneration of threads.

I have challenged, some may say attacked the content. Of late, I have not attacked anyone because it is silly to attack someone I do not know. All we know are what a person claims. Most use a user name which is not their real name anyway.

But attacking or challenging statements made is fair game. If some statements have hatred against any group, exposing that content for what it is , again is not an attack but a service.

Sometimes a person is out of words and cannot argue, much less debate. Then they resort to name calling sometimes using nasty words and profanity. That is a clear defeat and such people are not worth the time to argue with. Of course if such people again write content that is illogical and possibly hurtful they can be challenged.

Best is to challenge content and stay in that goal as focus and not attack anyone personally, even while trying to understand the motivation of a piece of content.

What say you....
I get a feeling you are also a moderator.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
A moderator should not have biased views.
Some people assume that they are the administrator. They want people to accept their direction. If people share this "administrators" views they are not moderated.
Case in point Mr. Narayanswamy iyer was so obnoxious, but just because he shared some opinions with one other member, he was never cautioned, on the other hand, he was supported and praised.
I like Praveen as Moderator and administrator.
He never participated in any threads and does not express personal bias.
 
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renuka

Well-known member
Just to add.
Abuse should not be tolerated by considering it an opinion.
An arguement need not to be abusive.
A debate need not be abusive.
Abuse is abuse..it WILL NOT be tolerated or sugar coated to be shoved down anothers throat as " its an opinion".

Get real..everyone has an Ego.
Its not about being right always but criminally abusive behavior should not be tolerated.
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi

opinions are different...every coin has two sides....sometimes we have to accept two sides....but

finally most arguements/opinons end up with CLOSE THREAD..LOL
 

prasad1

Well-known member
I think the content of the original post is very pertinent.
I only object to the sermon. We must realize that the person being talked down is also included the person talking down.

We all have opinions, none is any better than the other.
We present some personal experiences, and some time we post research positions expressed by others (with credit given to the source).
I do have an EGO, but I know that.
 

a-TB

Active member
Just because someone refuses to answer should not be construed as not having an answer, it is a foolish assumption.

No offence to anyone. Let's take 2 examples.

1. Lord Ayyappan culture - Lord Ayyappan is w tribal God and the tantris in Sabarimala temple are not Brahmins. Now some Tamil Brahmins worship Ayyappan.

So is the culture and traditions surrounding Ayyappan are Tamil Brahmin culture or Tamil Non Brahmin culture Or just Tamil culture ?

2. Bharatanatyam - This is largely practiced only by Tamil Brahmins now. But in history it was only practiced by devadasis till this system was abolished post independence. Brahmin or upper caste girls never danced in public in the past. We TBs adopted this only after independence. Should we then classify this under Tamil culture ??

3. Sage Valimiki writes one of the most important epic Ramayanam, and he is a non Brahmin as per his own accounts.
Let us look at the logic behind the two examples.

This thread is about arguments and debates. So it will be better to start a different thread.

However since an example is quoted let me say in debating this why the reasoning is wrong.

Human beings and a donkey (or any animal) have many features in common. This includes basic functions like eating, excreting, breathing, blood circulation, heart, feelings, ability to move etc etc. That cannot be the basis of the comparison to say they both are similar. The fact that both are living beings means some of these functions are the same.

Similarly many cultures in India come under Hindu culture. So being Hindus there is commonality.

To more accurately compare you have to look at the distinctions. Then one can say how small the distinctions are to say two cultures are more or less the same. For example, outside India there is hardly any difference between Iyer culture and Iyangar culture. They are both TBs and differences are minor.

Let us not talk about Valmiki not being a Brahmin or that Rama-Sita are not Brahmins etc. That is a different topic.

Let us get back to the original topic of post 1
 

a-TB

Active member
I get a feeling you are also a moderator.
We all are moderators of some sort since we care about the health of the forum. I used to be in debating teams in college and was merely sharing my experience to focus on the content, If there is a rude comment, then there are ways to call that out without name calling.

If there is a hate message of some sort calling that out is fine too without implying that the person is necessarily bad
 

a-TB

Active member
A moderator should not have biased views.
Some people assume that they are the administrator. They want people to accept their direction. If people share this "administrators" views they are not moderated.
Case in point Mr. Narayanswamy iyer was so obnoxious, but just because he shared some opinions with one other member, he was never cautioned, on the other hand, he was supported and praised.
I like Praveen as Moderator and administrator.
He never participated in any threads and does not express personal bias.
I prefer not to discuss about anyone but since a name is raised I can share my views

Mr Iyer was polite and friendly when he first joined the forum. Then he said some things that did not go well with some people based on being provoked. He was banned I think for a while.

He is an older person close to 90 and is a scholar in many subjects. I think when I mentioned the idea of being focused on content and not attack a person, he readily agreed.

The forum can benefit with his vast knowledge and wit. We all need to hit a reset in this regard.

If there was unprovoked aggression from anyone that should be taken up with the admin by using the Report function rather than discussing the person which is rude
 

a-TB

Active member
Just to add.
Abuse should not be tolerated by considering it an opinion.
An arguement need not to be abusive.
A debate need not be abusive.
Abuse is abuse..it WILL NOT be tolerated or sugar coated to be shoved down anothers throat as " its an opinion".

Get real..everyone has an Ego.
Its not about being right always but criminally abusive behavior should not be tolerated.
Agreed. Abuse need not be sugar coated as opinion but one has to look at the history and total context.

In any case best way to deal with abuse is to report to moderator as Mr Praveen says all the time. Or try to work this out via private messages.

It usually takes two to tango
 

renuka

Well-known member
Agreed. Abuse need not be sugar coated as opinion but one has to look at the history and total context.

In any case best way to deal with abuse is to report to moderator as Mr Praveen says all the time. Or try to work this out via private messages.

It usually takes two to tango
Yes...it takes two to tango but I do not need you to supply the music.

Have you ever played the musical piece Tarantula?
Its so intoxicatingly haunting ..a a story as how the bite of a Tarantula makes one go into trance like frenzy and jump up into the air and dance before one collapses and succumbs.

So do not add music to my bite..I know how to paralyze my victim.
 

renuka

Well-known member
We all are moderators of some sort since we care about the health of the forum. I used to be in debating teams in college and was merely sharing my experience to focus on the content, If there is a rude comment, then there are ways to call that out without name calling.

If there is a hate message of some sort calling that out is fine too without implying that the person is necessarily bad
No..
We are not moderators.
You are.

And if one cant be a just one..quit the post.

Old age or young age isnt an excuse for lack of respect and indecent accusations.

It might be tolerated in some cultures but certainly not in any civilized culture.
 

a-TB

Active member
Yes...it takes two to tango but I do not need you to supply the music.

Have you ever played the musical piece Tarantula?
Its so intoxicatingly haunting ..a a story as how the bite of a Tarantula makes one go into trance like frenzy and jump up into the air and dance before one collapses and succumbs.

So do not add music to my bite..I know how to paralyze my victim.
This forum is not about just one person. All I said in Post 1 is that let us debate on merits of an argument. If there is a serious issue with anyone then we are told to use the Report function.

I am not supplying music or talk about your capacity to strike LOL

The forum is better if we go back to debating points. I hope you can agree on that
 

renuka

Well-known member
This forum is not about just one person. All I said in Post 1 is that let us debate on merits of an argument. If there is a serious issue with anyone then we are told to use the Report function.

I am not supplying music or talk about your capacity to strike LOL

The forum is better if we go back to debating points. I hope you can agree on that
What points?
To play reverse psychology to make one accept abuses as part of an opinion?
Also if you are a moderator you need to admit it.
You seem to be playing too hard to prove some convulated points here after being impartial.
 

a-TB

Active member
What points?
To play reverse psychology to make one accept abuses as part of an opinion?
Also if you are a moderator you need to admit it.
You seem to be playing too hard to prove some convulated points here after being impartial.
I never said you to accept any abuses. I am member like you. You are well known member and I am an active member. I am not trying hard to prove anything. The topic of the discussion is about how to debate and argue in this thread. You can share your views on how to argue.
 
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