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Dealing with Brahmin girl attracted towards white boy

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
I am going to state a bitter truth.
Do you know the reason why we do not have successful Tamil Brahmin women? It is because of Tamil Brahmin society, mainly men, and their archaic rules. They have chained the women to the yoke of raising
children and upholding culture, more importantly, their three meals.
Not any more, Prasad Sir!

Those days when a woman obeyed her husband, whether she was a home maker or an office goer, are gone! Now a days, equality is demanded!

Newly wedded guys are always under pressure, whether the spouse will be with him or go to family court for, you know what!!
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
I am going to state a bitter truth.
Do you know the reason why we do not have successful Tamil Brahmin women? It is because of Tamil Brahmin society, mainly men, and their archaic rules. They have chained the women to the yoke of raising
children and upholding culture, more importantly, their three meals.

Dear Prasad ji...
Could you define success for a woman?
For me success is gaining a balance of everything in proportions conducive for physical, mental,economic and spiritual well being and not just a high flying career.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
On another note can you ever see a Tamil Brahmin having fun?
For Tamil Brahmin, everything is a solemn Religious affair.
Birth, marriage, and Death are religious affairs.
Going to work, attending Temple, and maybe Carnatic music, even in that you have to adhere to religious songs only. We basically lead a very boring life full of guilt and misgivings about us.

Is lok ko bji apana sake, use lok may be pachtaoge.
Loose translation:
You could not accept the present world, you will be sorry in other worlds too.
 
Last edited:

Iyest

Active member
Could you define success for a woman?
For me success is gaining a balance of everything in proportions conducive for physical, mental,economic and spiritual well being and not just a high flying career.

Balance and priorities are critical. For some 'success' unfortunately means being brainwashed by western ideas and to ape them as much as possible in daily life. Sprituality is hardly a priority and mental well being is handled by periodic visits to a shrink.
 

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Prasad ji...
Could you define success for a woman?
For me success is gaining a balance of everything in proportions conducive for physical, mental,economic and spiritual well being and not just a high flying career.
You are an exception. I could not define what is a success for a Shankaracharya.

The only person that can answer the question above is you. I am neither able nor willing to prescribe the ultimate definition of success, as this is not possible. Every person is thinking differently about being prosperous in life and is defining success in another way, so there can’t exist a definition that is suitable for all.

There is a generally accepted norm for mortals, and there is a different standard for Sadhu's etc.
Here I am talking in terms of worldly achievements that can be measured.

Financial success, material success, etc. The very reason for which the parents migrated to the USA.
If spiritual well-being was the goal, there was no need for the migration.
 

renuka

Gold Member
Gold Member
You are an exception. I could not define what is a success for a Shankaracharya.

The only person that can answer the question above is you. I am neither able nor willing to prescribe the ultimate definition of success, as this is not possible. Every person is thinking differently about being prosperous in life and is defining success in another way, so there can’t exist a definition that is suitable for all.

There is a generally accepted norm for mortals, and there is a different standard for Sadhu's etc.
Here I am talking in terms of worldly achievements that can be measured.

Financial success, material success, etc. The very reason for which the parents migrated to the USA.
If spiritual well-being was the goal, there was no need for the migration.

Migration isnt for money alone I am sure.
Its mainly for a secure future.

Spiritual well being needs contentment which comes mostly when other aspects of well being are met.
You cant preach Advaita to a hungry man who isnt sure if he would get a meal for his family.

Money technically is not a foe..its just inert but only uncontrolled desires turn into a foe.

Its like a knife...in the hands of a killer it kills..in the hands of a surgeon it heals.

Anyone male or female wont be able to be in an overdrive for too long.
If in persistent overdrive..they mostly start facing health issues which would warrant a reset to their mind and body complex.

Disease at times is like a traffic cop....it slaps us with a ticket to slow down and we should listen to our body signals.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Friends,

We have a situation where a Brahmin girl in upper teens (soon to be 18) is attracted to a white boy in USA. As per state laws, age of 18 is considered major. Parents confided me and looking for help. They are not totally orthodox but against the very thought of this dating. Can some of you please share the experience of dealing with this situation and suggestions?

Thanks
Sun
The issue stated has nothing to do with white boy, brahmin girl etc. It will be better if any 18 year old does not get emotionally entangled with any guy. Of course such reasoning will not work with the girl because she has tuned out (rightfully so) her parents.

These so called orthodox TB tend to be narrow minded and think they are special because they are being strict. While there are exceptions, most are actually hypocrites. The parents have obviously lost their abilities to communicate with their daughter who is making a statement. Also attraction between young girl and boy is but natural.

Here are the only few thing they can do. Let go of their self definition of being orthodox brahmin etc. Learn to relate to the feelings of their daughter. Acknowledge her feelings and teach her not to get entangled with anyone at this point her life.. If she wants to go on a date, let that be dating with other couples and not one on one.

If all these fail, it is not the end of the world. The girl may still do fine in life in the end, Accept the result as will of God (assuming they are theist).
 

tbs

Well-known member
hi

just info...my own daughter dated for 5 years and got married with american white boy.....my

son is doing the same ..dating white girl and to be married....in my home....we feel ok...it depends...

how we feel?....my daughter is a doctor..studied MD in USA....she said 2 things to me about

her marriage....1 boy should not be indian.....2 boy should not be doctor...we can't deny....its her

choice....we like it or not....so im not advising to same as general....it depends on individual families..

i lost my love affair due to my family reasons...so i dont want to do same with my kids...
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
The issue stated has nothing to do with white boy, brahmin girl etc. It will be better if any 18 year old does not get emotionally entangled with any guy. Of course such reasoning will not work with the girl because she has tuned out (rightfully so) her parents.

These so called orthodox TB tend to be narrow minded and think they are special because they are being strict. While there are exceptions, most are actually hypocrites. The parents have obviously lost their abilities to communicate with their daughter who is making a statement. Also attraction between young girl and boy is but natural.

Here are the only few thing they can do. Let go of their self definition of being orthodox brahmin etc. Learn to relate to the feelings of their daughter. Acknowledge her feelings and teach her not to get entangled with anyone at this point her life.. If she wants to go on a date, let that be dating with other couples and not one on one.

If all these fail, it is not the end of the world. The girl may still do fine in life in the end, Accept the result as will of God (assuming they are theist).
You said it Sir,
"attraction between young girl and boy is but natural".
The aim of nature in creation is all the same for living beings. "Creation, multiplication, propagation and protection". All the activities circle
around these only.

We cannot write off arranged marriages as failures. Yes, for long standing disciplined family life requires a lot of give and take.
ultimate aim is to lead a happy life.
Happiness in life depends on our state of mind.
Wishing you well.
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Friends,

We have a situation where a Brahmin girl in upper teens (soon to be 18) is attracted to a white boy in USA. As per state laws, age of 18 is considered major. Parents confided me and looking for help. They are not totally orthodox but against the very thought of this dating. Can some of you please share the experience of dealing with this situation and suggestions?

Thanks
Sun
This is teenage, when such things usually happen, as concept of dating is more common and accepted in US she has thought about it. She has discussed this with parents as a responsible child and not kept them in dark.
So Parents please don't get anxious as it would cloud your intelligence and ability to handle situation. Please stay calm. Maintain two communication with the daughter else she may seclude herself which is not what you want
 

Mayuran

Member
Friends,

We have a situation where a Brahmin girl in upper teens (soon to be 18) is attracted to a white boy in USA. As per state laws, age of 18 is considered major. Parents confided me and looking for help. They are not totally orthodox but against the very thought of this dating. Can some of you please share the experience of dealing with this situation and suggestions?

Thanks
Sun
Recently I was speaking with a Girl born in the US for India-origin parents. She married a white guy. She said she did meet with several Indian guys (both US born as well as immigrants from India) and got quite disappointed with their attitude. Invariably these guys (and their parents) think they are the most handsome on earth and deserve only a Cleopatra or Aishwarya Rai. And they want only a fair-skinned girl even if the guy loos like charcoal. The girl said hell with such guys and decided to go with a white guy. In fact, it is common to see Indian guys of age even 40-45 in the US still unmarried and still looking for the perfect fair skinned Aishwarya Rai. With atitude like that from the guys of India-origin, do you really find fault with the girl?
 

tbs

Well-known member
Recently I was speaking with a Girl born in the US for India-origin parents. She married a white guy. She said she did meet with several Indian guys (both US born as well as immigrants from India) and got quite disappointed with their attitude. Invariably these guys (and their parents) think they are the most handsome on earth and deserve only a Cleopatra or Aishwarya Rai. And they want only a fair-skinned girl even if the guy loos like charcoal. The girl said hell with such guys and decided to go with a white guy. In fact, it is common to see Indian guys of age even 40-45 in the US still unmarried and still looking for the perfect fair skinned Aishwarya Rai. With atitude like that from the guys of India-origin, do you really find fault with the girl?
hi

you said it......when my daughter married white guy....before she said 2 things to me....she is born in india

and migrated to USA...studied MD in USA...1 she doesnt want doctor guy...2 she does not want indian guy...

even i agreed these 2 things....in fact ...the white guy and his parents are far better than indian guys/

indian parents...no ego/greedy in attitudes...they are very simple than my own daughter....often times

they are better than my own daughter attitudes....our attitude has to change....otherwise we will

miss the opportunity....
 
When I visited the USA, I was shocked to find that right from the age of 4 or 5, children learn to go for night stay in a friend's house. This is known as "Sleep over!" When I asked why we Brahmins should follow this, the answer was "Be a Roman in Rome"!

"Play dates" are fixed and kids play together in a friend's house. Since the dating culture is thrust on them right from the tender age, they search for boyfriends in their teens! The hormones take the blame. Ha, ha!!

Parents have to just keep quiet!
Sleep overs are not co-ed as you said. I have raised two kids, a boy and a girl, and know all SI community in my place. And other religious groups also do the same (As a statistics, 50% of whites are virgins when they go through the first wedding).
The concept of dates comes around teenage years, more from a social and navigating the communication / relationship aspect and finding a suitable partner since the society is based on love marriage (even then, some folks get introduced in Sunday schools and so through parents, relatives, friends) and even there, there are guidelines. Of course, there is always difference in behavior due to socio-economic conditions. It is different from sleep over parties.
 

mangalam

Member
Dear Sun
If we migrate to greener pastures aazham theriyaamal kaalai vidukindrom then it's a sink or swim situation
Advise for the family is instead of going into melodrama talk nicely to the girl about what worries you, surely by now you should have set the expectations for the girl, like what are your boundaries etc, if she has been allowed to party away to kingdom come, then the signals from you are confusing, mudiyumaa mudiyaathaa ? dating, drinking is built into white culture, also Christian philosophy is God created the world for man, so go forth and enjoy, whereas our philosophy in stark contrast is controlling the senses !!
have long chats about is she going to marry this boy ? or are you going to be flipping from one to another,
does a 18 year old know what he/she is doing ? express our fears about the white man that brahmin habits of no meat and no alcohol will have to fly out the window, thinking further down peran piranthaal paruppu nei saatham kodupeengalaa allathu anthappakkam chicken soup kodukumaa ?
1967 they sang மெட்ராஸ் நல்ல மெட்ராஸ் மெட்ராஸ் நல்ல மெட்ராஸ்
மெதுவாப் போறவுக யாருமில்லே இங்கே சரியாத் தமிழ் பேச ஆளுமில்லே
ஆம்பிள்ளைக்கும் பொம்பிள்ளைக்கும் வித்யாசம் தோணல்லே
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
This subject has cropped a number of times in our Forum. But couldn't find a reason for the change in attitude among the new generation of youngsters especially born abroad.

Let us ponder a little, why this happens.
Here's verse from "Hithopadesa" that explains in simple words.

आहार-निद्रा-भय-मैथुनं च समानमेतत्पशुभिर्नराणाम् ।
धर्मो हि तेषामधिको विशेषो धर्मेण हीनाः पशुभिः समानाः ॥


Eating, sleeping, fear, and mating, —these four principles are common to both human beings and animals. The distinction between human life and animal life is "Dharma"(here we can take as discrimination).

Urge to multiply its species is inborn. If we look around we will find all living organisms from single cell amoeba to humans have this urge. Even trees, insects, animals etc.all born in this universe have this urge. At the time of puberty nothing can stop this urge by any means.

In Mahabharata the person who took a vow to forsake this urge was called "Bhishma" meaning "fierce".

All our activities centred around this urge for production and preservation of the species only.

Human species as they progressed generation after generation regularised this in various ways as per their requirements. Religious Codes of ethics are outcome of these. The Vedic society went for further refinement in codifying groups called Gothra and fixed rules for Anuloma and prathiloma
Marriages. Even Girls were gifted before their age of maturity.
Since they lived in the agrarian society without economic independence, they have no problem in following it.

Now look at the changes in our life. We have shifted our families from our roots mostly to new continents. Only for the sake of comfortable living. But the loss cannot be recovered.

It is my view the girls have every right to select their partner in life and lead their life. The partner may belong to Asian, Chinese, coloured or as in this case Caucasian race.

In view of the economic freedom and education the present day girls enjoy,
parents could only guide and do nothing more.
Perhaps a time may come to change the cycle of marriage alliance.

I wish the members of the forum give a fresh look at the issue and give their valued opinion.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

Rudra_Maha

New member
This subject has cropped a number of times in our Forum. But couldn't find a reason for the change in attitude among the new generation of youngsters especially born abroad.

Let us ponder a little, why this happens.
Here's verse from "Hithopadesa" that explains in simple words.

आहार-निद्रा-भय-मैथुनं च समानमेतत्पशुभिर्नराणाम् ।
धर्मो हि तेषामधिको विशेषो धर्मेण हीनाः पशुभिः समानाः ॥


Eating, sleeping, fear, and mating, —these four principles are common to both human beings and animals. The distinction between human life and animal life is "Dharma"(here we can take as discrimination).

Urge to multiply its species is inborn. If we look around we will find all living organisms from single cell amoeba to humans have this urge. Even trees, insects, animals etc.all born in this universe have this urge. At the time of puberty nothing can stop this urge by any means.

In Mahabharata the person who took a vow to forsake this urge was called "Bhishma" meaning "fierce".

All our activities centred around this urge for production and preservation of the species only.

Human species as they progressed generation after generation regularised this in various ways as per their requirements. Religious Codes of ethics are outcome of these. The Vedic society went for further refinement in codifying groups called Gothra and fixed rules for Anuloma and prathiloma
Marriages. Even Girls were gifted before their age of maturity.
Since they lived in the agrarian society without economic independence, they have no problem in following it.

Now look at the changes in our life. We have shifted our families from our roots mostly to new continents. Only for the sake of comfortable living. But the loss cannot be recovered.

It is my view the girls have every right to select their partner in life and lead their life. The partner may belong to Asian, Chinese, coloured or as in this case Caucasian race.

In view of the economic freedom and education the present day girls enjoy,
parents could only guide and do nothing more.
Perhaps a time may come to change the cycle of marriage alliance.

I wish the members of the forum give a fresh look at the issue and give their valued opinion.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Hi Sir, Let me add my two cents to this. Honestly, I feel women today are more economically independent and are able to pull the cards efficiently. The question only arises when, whether they choose to identify themselves with the brahmin ancestry or their individual sense.

I feel, today in this community, all people with kids have been indoctrinating their kids with individualism without even teaching them, what it takes to be a Brahmin, which is why you see these issues arise, maybe because the parents themselves have not figured this out.

When someone, say marries out or chooses a white/black/japanese national, I could only decipher this about them:-

1. Either this person doesn't care about his roots/ancestry.

2. His/her parent has done a bad job on him

3. Too much of independence. Lack of awareness of dharma/say understanding of ancestral baggage.

The whole concept of Kanyadaanam itself is lost. If economic success and educational degrees are becoming the major parameter to decide for marriage, i see a huge fundamental issue here. When they Shastras itself is being taken for a ride, what more to say.

A brahmin who is supposed to guide the society himself prioritises Kama over dharma and moksha, what more can happen?. This lack of a dharmic clarity, is the main core.

Personally, I would say if any such person does it, we must never make it an example and start preaching on the open mindedness of the family/society. If as a community, you cannot stand up to safeguard your own rituals from being watered down in the name of liberalism and modernity, then it deserves to be wiped out.

Protect the traditionalists and never mind the astray ones. We must never make such cases as a mainstream and market them, as they will set a bad precedent.

This I believe applies to all communities and not just the brahmin

Regards,
Rudra.
 
Last edited:

prasad1

Gold Member
Gold Member
I do not believe in social engineering. We all are individuals and should follow our own path.
Adi Shankara advises us to come out of attachments in Bhaja Govindam:–

Kaa te kaantaa kaste putrah
Samsaaroyam ateeva vichitrah
Kasya tvam kah kuta aayaatah
Tattvam chintaya tadiha bhraatah (8)

Who is your wife? Who is your son? Supremely wonderful, indeed, is this empirical process! Of whom are you? Who are you? From where have you come? O brother, think of that Truth here.
Dr T M P Mahadevan comments on this sloka:

“Family relations and institution of the household have only a limited value. They have value in so far as they serve to liberate the individual from ego-centred existence. But when they have served their purpose, they must be left behind. Family is the home of trial and testing; it is not one’s destination. This does not mean that he should be cruel to them or hate them; nor even that he should be callous to their interests. What it means is that he should no longer regard them as his property, nor himself as their property”.


What does it mean:

I feel, today in this community, all people with kids have been indoctrinating their kids with individualism without even teaching them, what it takes to be a Brahmin, which is why you see these issues arise, maybe because the parents themselves have not figured this out.
It sounds good, but is it not just your values? Is there a book of guidelines for a Brahmin? Is it universal?
 

Rudra_Maha

New member
I do not believe in social engineering. We all are individuals and should follow our own path.
Adi Shankara advises us to come out of attachments in Bhaja Govindam:–

Kaa te kaantaa kaste putrah
Samsaaroyam ateeva vichitrah
Kasya tvam kah kuta aayaatah
Tattvam chintaya tadiha bhraatah (8)

Who is your wife? Who is your son? Supremely wonderful, indeed, is this empirical process! Of whom are you? Who are you? From where have you come? O brother, think of that Truth here.
Dr T M P Mahadevan comments on this sloka:

“Family relations and institution of the household have only a limited value. They have value in so far as they serve to liberate the individual from ego-centred existence. But when they have served their purpose, they must be left behind. Family is the home of trial and testing; it is not one’s destination. This does not mean that he should be cruel to them or hate them; nor even that he should be callous to their interests. What it means is that he should no longer regard them as his property, nor himself as their property”.


What does it mean:


It sounds good, but is it not just your values? Is there a book of guidelines for a Brahmin? Is it universal?
Great. Regarding social engineering: Yes, one must follow his own path to achieve his own goals and to attain moksha, salvation or whatever. But however, not everyone is an AdiShankar. Most of us are just confused spirits, wandering in this journey of life, not knowing where to go, but was given the description of how to attain vaikunta. Am I asking to radicalize the people and create a rigid system to help them find a way?, nope..but I'll say, there is no harm in having a system for the people who may need support.

Wise men like Shankara are always exceptions. I cannot equate myself with him and market his philosophy as mainstream. Shankar a never had a family. But I do. One can say, never be attached to your kids, they are not your property, but is this even possible, even goddess parvathy caved in, when it came to her son Ganesha. Shankaras philosophy of advaita is remarkable. Applies to all of humanity at the spiritual/cosmic level, but at our level , by the way, what is our level?. My level of understanding and thinking may not be the same as yours. And when each of us starts thinking the same way, its going to end in chaos. And if I can muster a majority to support my Individual thought or idea, I can devise a juggernaut and finish anyone who walks around with their own sense of individualism, cause I wouldn't want ant opposing belief. So, there goes individualism out the window.

The first thing to acknowledge, is not everyone is the same. Each one is blessed with different sense of intellect and opportunities. I can't expect an handicapped person to think on the same lines as I do. So, I do have a moral responsibility to think for himself too, if I am caring and I telling enough.

As mentioned by someone in the thread before, times have changed, back in the day of Shankara, he did not face problems which we as a group is not. He never lived in a democracy, where people are taken for a ride and left to fend for themselves. If Shankar a were here today, in my idea of him , he would have become a traditionalist instead of the poster liberal. Probably be branded as a sanghi, maybe.

Regarding the value system for brahmins, yes there are certain codes prescribed to be followed. I had mentioned about some in another thread in this community:-

1. Like regular study of Vedas, puranas .
2. Study of opposing philosophies.
3. Nityakarmas.
4. Protect the community from attacks and ridicule.
5. Teaching kids about history.

And many more. A sense of community has to exist for all. We are still not at a point where the govt would help people on social securit in an unbiased manner. Until that is reached, every person will fall back on his own community for support, since thats the only group he will trust or get genuine help .

All I am saying is, you can have your own idea of world, but now, protect the traditionalists, who have given you the freedom to think and explore. Once these, freedoms are lost, there may come a new tradition that may not approve of your idea of individualism. On that day, if I can form a potent idea and weaponise it, that's it , consider yourself done, cause your just an individual with a crazy idea while I am organized battle tank.

Its just like say, getting oneself insured, I may not die tomorrow, but at least, there is a protection cover for the people who trust me when something happens to me. Dont be alone, cause it ain't safe. Its always better to get insured, become a part of the system and then explore/travel life.
 
Friends,

We have a situation where a Brahmin girl in upper teens (soon to be 18) is attracted to a white boy in USA. As per state laws, age of 18 is considered major. Parents confided me and looking for help. They are not totally orthodox but against the very thought of this dating. Can some of you please share the experience of dealing with this situation and suggestions?

Thanks
Sun
Another Kamala Harris in the making
 

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