Children born of live-in relationships are legitimate, Supreme Court says

[Raji Ram]

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........ Extremely sorry for my above posting since I have no other option except to swim along the flow of water reluctantly. I cannot vent my inner feelings here. ......

Dear Sir,

I know that we can not change the world. But I expect at least a few members to record their dismay, in forum!

Why should live in relationships be chosen when there is a ceremony called wedding which not only unites two

individuals but also two families? The society as a whole is becoming self centered and hence such changes happen.

BTW, Ram's elder brother used to say, 'I can not guarantee my own children!'. He is a senior advocate!

 

[krish44]

dear rajiramji
you are our conscience keeper.

your thinking what will happen to our homes if our children went into relationship outside of marriage is a genuine concern straight from the heart of a parent . this happening specially when alternative regular marriage option involving two families is possible .

for relation ships to end in marriage with consent of parents , maturity has to be shown both by children and parents . when both are not flexible and there is mutual doubt regarding acceptance of different point of view , what is the way out ?

we can record our dismay but will it change the mindset of youngsters ?.

society is at cross roads . sweeping changes are taking place .

those who cannot mould themselves and come to terms with the ground realities will break , those who show some understanding and patience
will carry their children and create bonds between two families and accept choices of children different from parents .


I have come to terms with marriage of two children overcoming minor differences of caste . one has to face it that children have their choices which could be different from ours a. as they have to live a lifetime with their choices ,it is best to succumb and accept .

it can be a little painful for some . others take it in their stride and learn to be mature about it , thanking God it was not a worser choice involving more compromises . faster we decide and put it behind us ,more easily we can look forward in life for a better future


.

 

[Raji Ram]

I know that people like me will be branded as 'pazhaiya panjAngam'! :dizzy:

When live in relationships are accepted, it will be fine ONLY if it is a friendly relationship. Living like a wedded couple without a legal

wedding and making the children born as legal has no sense according to me. It might make ALL the children born as legal children

but men and women will have multiple partners and wedding will have no meaning at all.

Soon.......... Back to animal life with legal children! :shocked:

 

[Raji Ram]

Oh! Relationships might increase! :grouphug:

Half brother / half sister /quarter brother / quarter sister ........... :bump2:

 

[renuka]

Extremely sorry for my above posting since I have no other option except to swim along the flow of water reluctantly. I cannot vent my inner feelings here. Sorry, Sorry!!

Dear Dikshita Ji,


I just read what you wrote in your post #23 and I liked it...but now after reading your post #25.. I feel sad yaar..cos your post #25 makes it sound as if post #23 was just to swim along the flow of thought of those who are supporting live -in relationship and not what you really feel...you made it sound as if you are helpless against the majority that seem to favor live in relationships.

Dont be afraid to share how you feel..we are all here to share opinions and thoughts even though our opinions might differ totally.

 

[krish44]

I know that people like me will be branded as 'pazhaiya panjAngam'! :dizzy:

When live in relationships are accepted, it will be fine ONLY if it is a friendly relationship. Living like a wedded couple without a legal

wedding and making the children born as legal has no sense according to me. It might make ALL the children born as legal children

but men and women will have multiple partners and wedding will have no meaning at all.

Soon.......... Back to animal life with legal children! :shocked:

not at all madam. nothing old fashioned about your ideas . It is a moral stand from a conventional

view point . If something is honestly felt and it is moral ,then we have to conclude it is right .

whether one would treat such live in as a wedding or not , the larger issue is whether children of

such an union between live in couple be left in this world without legitamacy . atleast these

require parents name to carry on in this world.what crime have the children committed ?.


supreme court in its wisdom feels that the children require legitamacy and has given a

judgement. Whether the society at large will accept is to be seen? however how the society will

view it fifteen or twenty years from now is a matter we may not be able to guess . if such children

are large in numbers , perhaps it will not be treated as a stigma .
recently we had one

illegitimate son of a politician going to court and forcing his father to accept him as his son .

he won the case in supreme court after a long drawn out fight with the support of his mother

who gave evidence supporting him .

I sincerely hope you will look at the issues involved and consider your views in this light
with best wishes
Krish44

 

[Raji Ram]

............ whether one would treat such live in as a wedding or not , the larger issue is whether children of

such an union between live in couple be left in this world without legitamacy . atleast these

require parents name to carry on in this world.what crime have the children committed ?...........

Dear Krish Sir,

The issue is actually like this:

Instead of taking vaccination to prevent a disease, an epidemic is spread freely and later on a medicine is found to cure it!

How about this solution? Let the society accept multiple partners for both genders so that all kids will get their parents' names!
At least the wedding expenses will not be there for the parents. eace:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Dikshita Ji,

I just read what you wrote in your post #23 and I liked it...but now after reading your post #25.. I feel sad yaar. ..........
Dont be afraid to share how you feel..we are all here to share opinions and thoughts even though our opinions might differ totally.

Dear Renu,

I am not scaring anyone! Since I knew from Dhishita Sir's introductory post and another one in music forum that he is from an

orthodox family. Hence I was a sort of shocked to read

The change in the attitude and approach among our guys and girls in recent years are a welcome feature. It is because of Globalization which gave them a windows of opportunity towards exposure of sophisticated and a luxurious way of life. The theory of emancipation of women applied here because of exposure of their higher education that made the girls to shackle the clutches that restricted them in the name of hereditary, tradition, culture and customs in order to breath the fresh air of freedom. In a way, their independency given them strength to lead a life of their choice and the children born out of live-in should be treated as legitimate children in the society. It is high time to the elders to give them way which would pave way for a intellectual society. Why not?

 

[Raji Ram]

To follow tradition, culture and custom does not mean wearing a traditional dress like panchakachcham / madisAr saree everyday!

And, empowerment of women should make women more brave and seek good education but there IS a need to stick to some

moral values too! This applies to men folk also. Gender equality should be in maintaining good values and not in losing them! :nono:

P.S: I have blown my horn!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

I am not scaring anyone! Since I knew from Dhishita Sir's introductory post and another one in music forum that he is from an

orthodox family. Hence I was a sort of shocked to read

Dear RR ji,


I did not mean that you are scaring him..I meant that he need not be scared to write what he really feels cos he himself said that he was just going along the flow of the majority here..it sounded as if he did not want to voice out what he really felt.

BTW RR ji...dont you feel we all need to let go of our fixations that 1 +1 =2 and not expect anyone to think like how we want them to think?

Even though identical twins share the same DNA they still have different finger prints..when God Himself did not make even identical twins fully identical in the real sense ..that shows God wanted variety to be the spice of life...so I guess we just need to enjoy the Garam Masala of existence.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish Sir,

The issue is actually like this:

Instead of taking vaccination to prevent a disease, an epidemic is spread freely and later on a medicine is found to cure it!

How about this solution? Let the society accept multiple partners for both genders so that all kids will get their parents' names!
At least the wedding expenses will not be there for the parents. eace:

what makes you think your solution is not happening in liberal societies , it is not uncommon for

both genders to have more than one live- in in one life . one relationship fails , they for sometime

would be unhappy about it . after sometime , the optimist among them might try again with a

better human being . In failed marriages , do divorcees not marry again ?. there is no stigma to it

. of course multiple partners like divorces are not every day affairs . there is a burn out after

every failed relationship. optimists might try again..

PL married one and had a relationship with two more multi-millionaires . some men might also be

like that . it may not be publicized .

you are not seeing this simple truth about what is happening all over the world .in liberal

societies .

you are feeling repugnant and feel it is immoral due to conservative upbringing . we are all end

products of our background and life experiences .

 

[sarang]

we are following the western model; if we don't learn from what is in front of our eyes, who to blame?
joint family - early marriage - more number of children - supportive family taking care of elders, sick/destitute relatives - nuclear family - late marriage - less than sustaining level children - break up/divorce - multiple partners - precocious pre teen sex adventures - accident pregnancy/abortion - parents/elders/poor relatives left to fend for themselves - domestic violence - child abuse - violent parents under state monitoring - uncared/abandoned children under state care.

This model will collapse.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,
I am happy that I won't live for many decades to see the society with ultra modern outlook. eace:

And, I don't have anything more to share in this thread.

 

[krish44]

let us see what some those in literary field say

Gnani , well known for his outspoken views felt- marriage ought to be a result of friendship

between genders . also he made a pact with his spouse on marriage ,if friendship deteriorates

after marriage , they will give priority to friendship and live separately .

another well known brahmin writer , sahitya akademi winner T janakiraman ,wrote a novel

" marapasu' in sixties . In the novel , A brahmin woman Ammini is a free independant soul who

believes in being herself and with likes and dislikes of her own.she favoured many men , not for

monetary considerations but to show her liking and make herself and the men happy . she

believed life is meant for love and happiness of people.

the novel created a storm in social and literary circles. How can a writer write irresponsibly

and writ a novel extolling free love.writer Critics like Jayakanthan slammed him asking what kind of

message such writing is sending to society .

he wrote also wrote "mohamul" also -made into a film by yukisetu depicting the love of babu

the central character for yamuna who is a friend much older to him and he ultimately he ends

up marrying her


tamil brahmin society is still conservative and does not take kindly to live-in and such

concepts .A conservative member feeling revolted with a high achieving tamil brahmin girl in US

not living upto strict codes of moral behaviour in male -female relationship have to be viewed

in that light

 

[krish44]

Dear Renu,
I am happy that I won't live for many decades to see the society with ultra modern outlook. eace:

And, I don't have anything more to share in this thread.

we all wish a long long life for RRji
pl do not leave. we value your inputs. conservative view point will lose a voice which is articulate

 

[Raji Ram]

​Thank you for you good wishes, Krish Sir!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,
I am happy that I won't live for many decades to see the society with ultra modern outlook. eace:

And, I don't have anything more to share in this thread.

Dear RR ji,

Actually I feel society is also like cyclical Yugas..it keeps changing...it goes to a stage of no return than it goes back to old ways again and then the cycle repeats.

So I wish you a long healthy life..please be here in this thread..we value your opinions too.

RR ji dont get me wrong..I respect conservative values too but there is no harm we debate any differences of opinion and try not to judge each other.

Forum is boring without you engaging in Chit Chat section too.

We need all kinds of opinions to have a healthy relationship here.

 

[krish44]

Going back in time[fiftees and seventies] , joint families were the norm for living . large families were presided over by patriarch often in sixties with children and grand children. All extolled the virtues of joint living together , sharing the joys and sorrows. any body not observing this norms of families were punished

in late eighies or so so they all distintegrated to nuclear type with the exception of some rural households .

many movies got made reflecting the the virtues of joint families and also showing the new trends of nuclear households .

I remember a nice film "sumaithangi" of sridhar based on short story of R K RANGARAJAN . IN this film Gemini ganesan sacrifices his all including marrying his lady love for the sake of his joint family . the film goers lapped it up and it was a super hit . also the song ' manithan enbavan thevamagalam' of kannadasan is shown on TV frequently even today after 50 plus years .

now nobody talks of joint family except in nostalgia , and many senior citizen think of it when ill treated by their children and they have to view the prospect of living in sr . citizen homes .

when renukaji talks of cyclical yugas , I think of the past and the warmth of those days and wonder whether they will ever return again .

 

[renuka]

when renukaji talks of cyclical yugas , I think of the past and the warmth of those days and wonder whether they will ever return again .

Warmth and Coldness if our perception and our expectations..when our expectations are met..we call it warm and when our expectations are not met..we call it cold.

At the end of the day the human existence is a very individualized, personalized well camouflaged selfish existence but we fool ourselves into believing that we care for others and others care for us.

The so called joint family system gave a massive ego boost to any aging Patriarch or Matriarch..when the human ages he or she knows that they need to establish themselves to be in authority in some way or the other..the human ego wants to "rule' at any cost and as long they can be in control the signs and symptoms of old age wont hit them that bad in their mind.


If we dissect human relationships and life in detail everyone is just trying to be in charge that's all and we all get carried away thinking its all warmth. The human ego is a very fragile one that will go to any extent to defend itself.

So no need to hope for anything to return..nothing gone can ever return.
If its gone its gone for a reason.

 

[krish44]

when you said cyclical , I thought in a cycle things get repeated after a while
But at the same time , you add nothing gone can ever return . if something has gone for a reason , there will be other reasons to get them back in slightly different form may be .

If joint family can disintegrate to nuclear , it is not far off that nuclear will further split to more singles with both genders becoming highly economic viable and more single parents .

Equally nuclear families unable to cope with less people even with Two incomes besides need for more human resources for runnning their lives may try to integrate adding more relatives or human resources to become viable .

The family models will remain in a flux combining or disintegrating depending on needs of the times .

True ,joint family system put the oldies in strong position to exercise authority and gives an ego boost and might have contributed to individual selfish existence of oldies . they might have justified to themselves that it is their reward for looking after a large family and. others should care for them as they cared for others .

even in nuclear families , most parents have these expectations of their children , they expect support in old age from them as a matter of right for what they have done for them when they were young in their childhood and teenage. this reciprocity is part of nuclear family living .

now the conflict is ,the next generation with double income couples are not ready to reciprocate and support their parents

old parents have no stake in these types of nuclear families which does not have a good safety net for the survival of oldies .so why should they continue to put up with all this .

they may also abdicate their responsibilities towards the young couples of next generation , not look after their grand children ,not help them in housework . they may become utterly selfish for their own good and look for family forms which will give them a better role and authority .

they may even adopt strangers in return for services or think of some other crazy scheme where their need for authority and good life are met . the need of senior persons are urgent . by 2050 , about 20 percent will belong to this category .
A huge business opprtunity to cater for . the market forces will bring forth models for their good life starting with retirement homes for various groups from 60 -90 yrs , from middle class to affluent .Other products like holidays for the old ,special food ,geriatric medical care , forums providing human resources, medical appliances catering to them will flood the market .

time will come , young people will struggle hard to find parent like figures in family . TB boys are not finding TB brides these days . Matter of time they will not get TB parents who will live with them .lol

 

[dhikshita]

Dear RR ji,


I did not mean that you are scaring him..I meant that he need not be scared to write what he really feels cos he himself said that he was just going along the flow of the majority here..it sounded as if he did not want to voice out what he really felt.

BTW RR ji...dont you feel we all need to let go of our fixations that 1 +1 =2 and not expect anyone to think like how we want them to think?

Even though identical twins share the same DNA they still have different finger prints..when God Himself did not make even identical twins fully identical in the real sense ..that shows God wanted variety to be the spice of life...so I guess we just need to enjoy the Garam Masala of existence.

Doctor Madam,

Thank you for supporting my write-up which encouraged me since I had an opportunity to teach on two commerce subjects to teenagers in hundreds in my early years around H.H.Sri Parthasarathy Swamy's temple in Tripliace where a large number of urban TB families habitat. I used to advice the students, particularly girls to stand on their own legs in order to face the challenging and formidable world boldly besides keeping an eye over their parent's well being in their old age.

Secondly I don't have any hesitation to fall in line with Madam Raji's view though not 100% as on date owing to changing circumstances which are beyond one's control.

I appreciate your theory on patriarch and matriarch which camouflaged the society to certain extent in yes`ter-years though not exists as on date because the youngsters desire to lead an independent life of their choice which landed the parents into Old Age Homes.

A lot more knocks my tiny brain yet but I hesitate to continue in this particular thread.

Thanks to both of you considered to be very bold modernists with plenty of capacity to drive any hard path or any given subject i.e, either sensitive or intellectual to reach the desired goal. Your contributions on any subject which are thought provoking, as why not? would be highly valuable and cherished.

 

[renuka]

Doctor Madam,

Thank you for supporting my write-up which encouraged me since I had an opportunity to teach on two commerce subjects to teenagers in hundreds in my early years around H.H.Sri Parthasarathy Swamy's temple in Tripliace where a large number of urban TB families habitat. I used to advice the students, particularly girls to stand on their own legs in order to face the challenging and formidable world boldly besides keeping an eye over their parent's well being in their old age.

Secondly I don't have any hesitation to fall in line with Madam Raji's view though not 100% as on date owing to changing circumstances which are beyond one's control.

I appreciate your theory on patriarch and matriarch which camouflaged the society to certain extent in yes`ter-years though not exists as on date because the youngsters desire to lead an independent life of their choice which landed the parents into Old Age Homes.

A lot more knocks my tiny brain yet but I hesitate to continue in this particular thread.

Thanks to both of you considered to be very bold modernists with plenty of capacity to drive any hard path or any given subject i.e, either sensitive or intellectual to reach the desired goal. Your contributions on any subject which are thought provoking, as why not? would be highly valuable and cherished.

Dear Sir,


Kindly continue if you wish to do so cos all types of thoughts and opinions are welcomed.

After a certain age most of us just sit back and read all different views as a witness and try to decipher what lies beyond what meets the eye.

That is why I like to read all views ranging from Ultra Conservative to totally out of control views.

When we compare and contrast the either ends of the spectrum only then we can chose the middle path for ourselves and help guide others.

We Indians have a tendency to rule by the iron fist when it comes to morality and in that process sweep any problem under the carpet.

May be if we all tried to have a more analytical view on life and human behavior we could understand the present generation better.

Times have changed and one shoe does not fit all anymore.

Thank you for your reply sir.

regards