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British war memorial - Dalit Pride!

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Vaagmi

Well-known member
#2
I am waiting to hear the following story shortly written by some resourceful Tamil pakuththarivu writer:

The hanging of Veerapandia kattabomman at Kovilpatty was the culmination of brahmin conspiracy ending in a fiasco during the time of Britishers in India. Kattabhommu was under the control of his brahmin advisors. Ettappan, the local chieftain of Ettayapuram was a dalit chieftain. He fought Kattabhommu by joining the Britishers because he wanted to oppose the brahmin domination in the society. So it is necessary that the dalits of Tamilnadu should visit the Kovilpatty memorial of Kattabhommu and celebrate their grand victory every year. On that day there should be stone throwing, Salai mariyal, damaging of all shops on the way etc., on the route to the memorial to make the society realise that Dalits are very active and powerful.

Long live Ettappan.
 
Last edited:
#3
[h=1]Historical reality appears to be different….[/h][h=1]Koregaon Memorial: What Does It Really Signify?[/h]By Aravindan Neelkandan

The so-called ‘new’ Dalit narrative celebrating the Koregaon memorial, erected for the soldiers of the 1818 Anglo-Maratha War, is a very old one. It is also not exactly an alternative or subaltern reading of history. It is only a rehashing of the colonial manipulation of Indian identities and memory.

Let us assume that the Mahar community deliberately sided with the British to defeat the Peshwa regime of the Marathas because of the latter’s casteism. Then all one has to say in historical hindsight is that the Mahars made a blunder in making that decision. However, it was not a decision that had not been taken before in the history of India – communities or chieftains of the country have sided with the British so that they could settle scores with their domestic rivals. Every time an Indic community or chieftain sided with an alien invader, the results have not worked well for them. If we assume that the Mahars intentionally sided with the British, the subsequent history shows that the same fate befell them.

consequence.jpg?w=661&q=60&fmt=pjpeg&auto=format


The most notorious consequence of accepting such a narrative makes the Mahars complicit in the subsequent famines – called by some historians as the ‘Victorian holocaust’. Within 25 years of the British East India Company winning the war in 1818, the famines between 1826 and 1850 killed almost 500,000 people. According to William Digby, by the 1870s, the number of famine deaths had crossed a few million.

Fortunately, the narrative is more a construct than a historical reality. Almost every community had either supported or opposed the British. However, once the evil of colonialism was felt across the board, all came together to fight against it. Otherwise one cannot explain, for instance, why B R Ambedkar did not accept Christianity arguing that it would strengthen colonial stranglehold on the nation.

After the 1857 uprising, Anglophile social reform leaders like Jyotirao Phule sought to depict the Mahars as having sided with the British and even congratulated them for helping in crushing the 1857 rebellion. In reality, the British started considering the Mahars as unreliable in guarding their empire. Historian Shraddha Kumbhojkar of Savitribai Phule Pune University points out that the Mahar Regiment soldiers joining the ‘Indian Mutiny’ “added certain reluctance the British had always shown with regard to the enlistment of Mahars” and that “subsequently they were declared to be a non-martial race and their recruitment was stopped in May 1892”.


Read more at: https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/koregaon-memorial-what-does-it-really-signify
 
#4
Raising a Mahar battalion is history - no story - Dr Ambedkar letter to TOI touches on this Read it with a hand lenses - appears in very small fonts.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/fresh-twist-to-mahas-dalit-politics/articleshow/62347659.cms

Dalit have to fight for their rights! Benovalance like calling them Harijan or திருகுலத்தான் has not improved their social status - Only Affirmative actions lifted many educationally and financially!
 

renuka

Well-known member
#5
Why play caste politics?
If Etappan was Dalit who betrayed Kattabomman becos Ethappan didnt like Brahmins...
Then what was the excuse of a Brahmin to feed info to Muhammad Bin Qasim to invade the port town Debal by giving Muhd Qasim info about the citys defence.


A traitor is a criminal..crime has no caste.

Capture of Debal:

Muhammad-bin-Qasim led his army towards Debal, a famous seaport, where the Arab’s ships were looted by some pirates. The port town Debal was well protected by strong fortifications, and it was not easy on the part of the Qasim’s army to penetrate into it so easily. A nephew of Dahir was the governor of Debal. Though he had an army of very small size with him, he tried to resist Qasim. But it became futile, when a treacherous Brahmin deserted the fortress and gave Qasim all the information’s regarding the secrets of its defence.

He also came to know from the Brahman that the strength of the Sind army lay in the massive Hindu temple inside the fort of Debal and as long as the red flag fluttered atop the temple, he could not defeat the Hindus. The temple was also garrisoned by 4000 Rajput’s and 3000 Brahmins serving at the temple. However, after a fierce battle Qasim brought down the red flag and the Arabian army resorted to a massacre. Despite a bold fight, the Hindus of Debal were defeated by the Arabs.

The nephew of Dahir who was the governor fled away. Debal was captured and a huge booty with a large number of women fell into the hands of the Arabs. The people were given the option of accepting Islam or death. Many thousands of Hindus including Brahmans were mercilessly killed on their refusal to embrace Islam. The massacre continued for three days. It was very unfortunate that Dahir who had prior information of the Arabian attack, did not care at all.


Taken from article Arabian invasion of Sindh.
 

renuka

Well-known member
#6
Changing camps is nothing new.
In Mahabharat Drona was sucking up to the Kauravas becos he was hell bent on defeating Drupada for insulting him.
Ekalavya could have wrecked revenge on Drona or even killed him instead of cutting off his thumb when Drona shamelessly asked Guru Dakshina even though Ekalavya was self taught..still Ekalavya never gave in to revengeful thoughts..so its not caste..its about ethics.

Chanakya..next..he too was all about revenge cos he was insulted by King Dhana Nanda hence nurtured Chandragupta Maurya for revenge on the Nanda Kingdom.

So nothing new when it comes to revenge games be it Brahmin or Dalit....if oppression is sweet (Dalitam Madhuram)..so is revenge(Pratikaram Madhuram).
 
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#7
As author has put it in black and white....may be partly imaged .................

[h=1]Koregaon Bhima: How Today’s Political Mobilisation Needs Reimagined History[/h][h=1]By R. Jagannathan[/h][h=1]The Koregaon Bhima martyrs included not just Mahars, but also Marathas, Rajputs, Muslims and the odd Jew or two.[/h]So, for today’s Marathas to think they lost to a Dalit army or for Dalits to think that they humbled the Brahminical Peshwas is partly imagined “truth”.

The caste tensions engineered in Maharashtra over a battle that happened 200 years ago between the British and the Peshwas, resulted in one death, the destruction of properties worth crores, and disruption of ordinary life in Pune and parts of Mumbai. It is a testimony to the fact that history is often needed to aid modern-day political mobilisation.

Briefly, this is the backdrop: On 1 January 1818, the British East India Company’s forces, which had many native Indians in its ranks, fought the Peshwa army at Koregaon Bhima near Pune. The Peshwas, despite being present in larger numbers, could not defeat the British, and the main phalanx of the Peshwa army went elsewhere to participate in what it felt was the bigger battle, to attack Pune. Most historians think the Koregaon Bhima battle ended inconclusively, though Peshwa power was already in serious decline and only some time away from yielding totally to the East India Company.

The company’s army comprised many Mahars, the caste that Babasaheb Ambedkar hailed from. A British memorial erected to commemorate the battle was visited by Ambedkar in 1927. When he found the names of various martyred Mahars mentioned in the memorial, it helped him build a narrative where the oppressed castes took on the might of the Brahminical Peshwas. Since then Dalits visit the memorial every year to commemorate the victory of the British Indian army over the oppressive Peshwas, who sometimes had laws that dehumanised the “untouchables”.

Read more at: https://swarajyamag.com/politics/ko...litical-mobilisation-needs-reimagined-history
 

tbs

Well-known member
#9
Historical reality appears to be different….

Koregaon Memorial: What Does It Really Signify?

By Aravindan Neelkandan

The so-called ‘new’ Dalit narrative celebrating the Koregaon memorial, erected for the soldiers of the 1818 Anglo-Maratha War, is a very old one. It is also not exactly an alternative or subaltern reading of history. It is only a rehashing of the colonial manipulation of Indian identities and memory.

Let us assume that the Mahar community deliberately sided with the British to defeat the Peshwa regime of the Marathas because of the latter’s casteism. Then all one has to say in historical hindsight is that the Mahars made a blunder in making that decision. However, it was not a decision that had not been taken before in the history of India – communities or chieftains of the country have sided with the British so that they could settle scores with their domestic rivals. Every time an Indic community or chieftain sided with an alien invader, the results have not worked well for them. If we assume that the Mahars intentionally sided with the British, the subsequent history shows that the same fate befell them.

consequence.jpg?w=661&q=60&fmt=pjpeg&auto=format


The most notorious consequence of accepting such a narrative makes the Mahars complicit in the subsequent famines – called by some historians as the ‘Victorian holocaust’. Within 25 years of the British East India Company winning the war in 1818, the famines between 1826 and 1850 killed almost 500,000 people. According to William Digby, by the 1870s, the number of famine deaths had crossed a few million.

Fortunately, the narrative is more a construct than a historical reality. Almost every community had either supported or opposed the British. However, once the evil of colonialism was felt across the board, all came together to fight against it. Otherwise one cannot explain, for instance, why B R Ambedkar did not accept Christianity arguing that it would strengthen colonial stranglehold on the nation.

After the 1857 uprising, Anglophile social reform leaders like Jyotirao Phule sought to depict the Mahars as having sided with the British and even congratulated them for helping in crushing the 1857 rebellion. In reality, the British started considering the Mahars as unreliable in guarding their empire. Historian Shraddha Kumbhojkar of Savitribai Phule Pune University points out that the Mahar Regiment soldiers joining the ‘Indian Mutiny’ “added certain reluctance the British had always shown with regard to the enlistment of Mahars” and that “subsequently they were declared to be a non-martial race and their recruitment was stopped in May 1892”.


Read more at: https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/koregaon-memorial-what-does-it-really-signify
hi

even today...i heard in indian army ...mahar regiments/maratha regiments never the same ...both are marathis....in mahar regiments...

they have baba ambetkar's followers more...in maratha....they have morechatrapathi shivaji's followers..
 
#10
hi

even today...i heard in indian army ...mahar regiments/maratha regiments never the same ...both are marathis....in mahar regiments...

they have baba ambetkar's followers more...in maratha....they have morechatrapathi shivaji's followers..

They stand divided...

This article throws more light on 'Mahar regiment'....

[h=1]Indian Army’s Mahar regiment: Home to two army chiefs and a Param Vir Chakra[/h]Excerpts...


resized-696x464.png

[h=3]Under the British[/h]Within the British Army, the Mahar regiment had a circuitous journey — first used during the Anglo-Maratha wars, later abandoned by being classified as a ‘non-martial’ class, only to be resurrected as Britain scouted for troops during World War II and sent to join the Burma campaign.

The regiment served the empire for over a hundred years, including the battle of Koregaon in 1818 when Mahar troops of the British Army prevailed over Peshwa troops. However, after the revolt of 1857, its fortunes declined.
In 1892, the Mahar regiment was disbanded, leading to protests and a movement to resurrect it at the earliest. A shortage of troops during World War I led to the enlisting of only one battalion of Mahar troops, which was merged with the Punjab regiment and did not see action during the war.

Dr B.R. Ambedkar, whose father had been a soldier in the British Indian Army, was a strong advocate of raising the Mahar regiment again, an effort that paid off only during World War II, when the British Empire once again stared at a lack of troops to cover all fronts.
The first battalion of the Mahar regiment was raised in Belgaum, with the Koregaon pillar featuring in its logo. The 1st and 3rd Mahar units served in the North-West Frontier Province during the war, and the 2nd Battalion was pushed into duty for the Burma campaign.
In 1946, after the unit switched to machine guns, the logo was changed to include two crossed Vickers machine guns over the Koregaon pillar.
[h=3]Post-independence[/h]“During the disturbed conditions in the aftermath of partition, the regiment helped in the safe transfer of lakhs of refugees, in the face of violent armed mobs,” the official history of the Mahar Regiment reads.

“In 1956, the regiment absorbed three battalions of the Border Scouts, which had been earlier raised for manning the disturbed Punjab border. The class composition of the regiment changed over the years, to accept men from all states and classes while retaining basic Mahar composition in some battalions.”

Read more at: https://theprint.in/2018/01/03/indi...me-to-two-army-chiefs-and-a-param-vir-chakra/
 
#12
History - was Ettappan a traitor ?


But how did the myth that Ettayappan was the traitor come to effect?

It owes itself not only to the movie Veerapandya Kattabomman (based on the book written by Ma Po Sivagnanam), but also the many Nattu pattu’s amongst which are Pulittevan Sindhu, Kattabomman Kathaipadal, Kattabomman Kummi, Kattabomman Kuttu, Kattabomman Villupattu etc.

So much so that today whenever the name Kattabomman comes up, one is reminded of Shivaji Ganesan. It goes without saying that he did great justice to the role he played and in this particular case, so fine was the portrayal that history was virtually rewritten in the modern Tamil mindset.

https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100203092927AA6XTvq
 
#13
[h=1]Leaders adding fuel to fire........[/h][h=1]‘Breaking news’ craved medias exploiting the issue[/h][h=1]Vested interest twisting the........[/h][h=1][/h][h=1]Battle of Koregaon : Lessons in Unity[/h]It is unfortunate that in the year 2018, India is witnessing caste clashes which, if unchecked, could blow into a major civil war. We are seeing Media and “Youth” politicians like Jignesh Mevani and Rahul Gandhi adding to the conflagration of caste politics.

This is what Rahul Gandhi tweeted:

The current President is a Hindu who comes from the Dalit community and he is the chief executive. He became the President when RSS/BJP are ruling at the Centre. Yet, a PM aspirant tweeted this falsehood.

To top it all, our Media that is perpetually on a spree of “Breaking News”, has added fuel to the fire by portraying it as a “Dalit vs Hindu“ issue.


Picture2.jpg


For a really long time, we have been wanting to highlight how History has been, and still is, twisted by vested interests to exploit, existing or imaginary, fault lines within the Indian society. Most of the times, we have found media outlets acting as catalysts. They act as a platform for disseminating atrocity content. One such example of manufactured atrocity porn that was doing the rounds on Social Media came to our notice.

In the last few years, the fifth column has been working hard to foment and hype inter-caste fissures among Hindus. These entities (vested interests) in India, often aided from abroad, keep attempting to exploit internal, existing or imaginary, fault lines of the Indian society. They rely extensively on atrocity content to promote distrust among communities or groups of people. National and Global media and myriad “scholars’ of Indology and “South Asian Studies” have also been found to be acting as conduits.

These forces are determined to inculcate the feeling of victimhood internally among some communities within Hinduism to ensure that
unity in the Hindu society does not get fortified. They also try to create groups based on faith and gender.

The Koregoan battle is just one of the many battles fought between the British and the Marathas. But suddenly it is in the news. Why should this battle, hardly an indecipherable footnote of history, be in the news now? Because, the fifth column has been trying hard (without success) to search for one battle in History where Dalits battled Brahmins. There are no such battles. This is the only such event, the facts of which, when twisted provide a good template to write atrocity porn – demonize one community (Brahmins) and inculcate the feeling of victimhood in another (Mahars/Dalits).

As we will show in the article, Koregaon was NOT a battle between Dalits and “Upper Castes”. The British did NOT win in this battle. More importantly, we will show that this “Dalits against non-Dalits” narrative, where only the former are oppressed, and only the latter are oppressors, is the most misleading misconception perpetuated over the years to paint Hinduism as a proponent of segregation.
We are writing this post not only to refute this article, but also as a case study to highlight how you can identify atrocity content. In that way, it is a rebuttal to all those posts that use this set template!

…………………………….
……………………………
We leave you with these lines from the Kathopnishad:

उत्तिष्ठत जाग्रत प्राप्य वरान्निबोधत
,
क्षुरासन्न धारा निशिता दुरत्यद्दुर्गम पथ: तत् कवयो वदन्ति|

Arise! Awake! Approach the great and learn.


Like the sharp edge of a razor is that path,


so the wise say−hard to tread and difficult to cross.

[h=1]Read more at: http://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-in-unity/[/h]
 

a-TB

Active member
#14
Leaders adding fuel to fire........

‘Breaking news’ craved medias exploiting the issue

Vested interest twisting the........

Battle of Koregaon : Lessons in Unity

It is unfortunate that in the year 2018, India is witnessing caste clashes which, if unchecked, could blow into a major civil war. We are seeing Media and “Youth” politicians like Jignesh Mevani and Rahul Gandhi adding to the conflagration of caste politics.

This is what Rahul Gandhi tweeted:

The current President is a Hindu who comes from the Dalit community and he is the chief executive. He became the President when RSS/BJP are ruling at the Centre. Yet, a PM aspirant tweeted this falsehood.

To top it all, our Media that is perpetually on a spree of “Breaking News”, has added fuel to the fire by portraying it as a “Dalit vs Hindu“ issue.


Picture2.jpg


For a really long time, we have been wanting to highlight how History has been, and still is, twisted by vested interests to exploit, existing or imaginary, fault lines within the Indian society. Most of the times, we have found media outlets acting as catalysts. They act as a platform for disseminating atrocity content. One such example of manufactured atrocity porn that was doing the rounds on Social Media came to our notice.

In the last few years, the fifth column has been working hard to foment and hype inter-caste fissures among Hindus. These entities (vested interests) in India, often aided from abroad, keep attempting to exploit internal, existing or imaginary, fault lines of the Indian society. They rely extensively on atrocity content to promote distrust among communities or groups of people. National and Global media and myriad “scholars’ of Indology and “South Asian Studies” have also been found to be acting as conduits.

These forces are determined to inculcate the feeling of victimhood internally among some communities within Hinduism to ensure that
unity in the Hindu society does not get fortified. They also try to create groups based on faith and gender.

The Koregoan battle is just one of the many battles fought between the British and the Marathas. But suddenly it is in the news. Why should this battle, hardly an indecipherable footnote of history, be in the news now? Because, the fifth column has been trying hard (without success) to search for one battle in History where Dalits battled Brahmins. There are no such battles. This is the only such event, the facts of which, when twisted provide a good template to write atrocity porn – demonize one community (Brahmins) and inculcate the feeling of victimhood in another (Mahars/Dalits).

As we will show in the article, Koregaon was NOT a battle between Dalits and “Upper Castes”. The British did NOT win in this battle. More importantly, we will show that this “Dalits against non-Dalits” narrative, where only the former are oppressed, and only the latter are oppressors, is the most misleading misconception perpetuated over the years to paint Hinduism as a proponent of segregation.
We are writing this post not only to refute this article, but also as a case study to highlight how you can identify atrocity content. In that way, it is a rebuttal to all those posts that use this set template!

…………………………….
……………………………
We leave you with these lines from the Kathopnishad:

उत्तिष्ठत जाग्रत प्राप्य वरान्निबोधत
,
क्षुरासन्न धारा निशिता दुरत्यद्दुर्गम पथ: तत् कवयो वदन्ति|

Arise! Awake! Approach the great and learn.


Like the sharp edge of a razor is that path,


so the wise say−hard to tread and difficult to cross.

Read more at: http://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-in-unity/
So the famous quote of Sw Vivekananda 'Arise, Awake ..' is from Kathopanishad.. I learnt something today (though is not going to help me in anyway) LoL
 
#16
It may be also a truth that every political party has an agenda...hidden agenda... for survival and success

[h=1]Koregaon: Congress Is Back To A Plan It Knows Too Well[/h]

GettyImages-900729380.jpg?w=640&q=60&fmt=pjpeg&auto=format


[COLOR=rgba(54, 54, 52, 0.6)][FONT=&quot]Violent protests erupted in several parts of Mumbai and Thane, with protesters damaging buses, blocking roads, staging rail rokos and forcing shops to shut down (Sanket Wankhade/Hindustan Times via Getty Images
[/FONT][/COLOR]​
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A fancy French quote “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose” or its more popular English version “the more things change, the more they stay the same” came to mind watching the visuals on the Bhima-Koregaon issue. Indian society is changing and hence this quote is not contextual, one may say. That is true. Rather, this quote is about mercenaries within trying to foment unrest based on the tried and tested faultline of caste.

Identities, real or imagined, and associated grievances, again real or imagined, are important to people. Traditionally, Indian society has had reasonable space for identities to coexist and grievances to be expressed and addressed without much rancour. Dr Ambedkar himself is a prime example. While he was a fervent critic of Indian society, his acumen and his work along with his activism was enough for him to win over the same society. The society that he was critical about, made space for him to have an indelible role in shaping the future of this country. Similarly, the Bhima-Koregaon memorial meet, even with its contested history, has been happening for many years now with very little trouble.

What was different this year then? A down and almost out Congress party and its ecosystem think they have tasted blood, and are thirsty for more. The more things change, the more they remain the same – of course, this applies to the Congress party’s strategy. Indira Gandhi covertly backed Bhindranwale to break the grip of the Akalis and ended up creating a monster that almost did permanent damage to our nation. Rajiv Gandhi too tried to be more Islamist than Islamists in both the Shah Bano and Salman Rushdie cases, while also trying to play the soft Hindutva card. Playing both sides is an old Congress strategy that helps it find electoral relevance by dividing people into smaller groups and appeasing the minimum necessary parts. Rahul Gandhi, 20 years later, seems to be on the same track. After exploiting caste discontent in Gujarat by aligning with caste leaders of the state and tasting marginal success, the Congress has moved on to Maharashtra. They have started engaging with and supporting certain elements, some of whom openly call for street wars to resolve caste conflict.

Read more at: https://swarajyamag.com/politics/koregaon-congress-is-back-to-a-plan-it-knows-too-well
 

renuka

Well-known member
#17
The truth is that both Brahmins and Marathas are okay with a certain kind of submissive Dalit. But both communities are finding it difficult to adjust with the new assertive Dalit.

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatim...k.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TOIBlogs
Good to know Dalits are rising and not afraid to speak up.
To stand and speak up is the birth right of every human.

Its high time Hindus admit that they treated their own kind without any respect.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
#18
It is very hard to accept that what we accepted as normal behavior was cruel to others.
It is easy for me now, because I am seeing in from afar. I could not see it when I was in the thick of it all.

I see that among American whites towards other minorities in USA or England.

But it also does not help when they rub it in, with this in your face attitude shown in these protests.


On a different level, it is wrong to glorify an oppressive leader or an episode depicting an episode we would rather forget.

In the USA the monuments to Confederate generals who fought against the Union is slowly being moved away from public squares to museums.

I think we should learn from it. Yes, it is part of Indian history, but there is no need to be reminded every day.
 
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