Brahmins for Bharathanatyam and Saastriya sangeetham

[Visalakshi Ramani]

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Respected Mr. Nara,

Sound HAS tremendous influence on us and our lives.

Why do we insist on the the correct pronunciation, maatra and spuritham in Vedic chanting?

Otherwise the whole effect may become contrary to what was intended at the first place.

Surely you must be knowing the story of the boon sought by Kumbakarna.

Instead of asking for "Nithyathvam" he asked for "Nidrathvam" and spent six months in an year in sleeping, for the rest of his life.

Why is the chanting of "OM" given so much importance? It is only a sound after all!

Words must be used with utmost care. We have to remember these words:-

"Theeyinaal chutta punn aarume aaraathu
nnavinaal chutta vadu."

with warm regards,
V.R

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Respected Mr. Sangom,

If you can't (or won't ) give the answers to the queries, then who would?

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

There was a time when microphones did not exist and still vocalists could be heard by the large number of audience.

The advance technology and the acoustics of the concert hall do affect the concerts, these days.

They highlight both the good and the bad points!

The almost inaudible gamakas played on a veena are magnified magnificently. So also any lapse in the srtuthi and swarasthaanam.

Truly there can be no unmixed blessing

with warmest regards,
V.R.

 

[sangom]

hi sangom,

i am somewhat surprised by the nostalgic sounding, 'those were the good old days' reply from you.

Dear Kunjuppu,

It is long since you had a post of some size to me; I am glad and honoured. I do not know why my "good old days" feeling surprised you. After all we, I think, all have some sort of a Maxwellian Distribution Curve when it comes to "fixations" with certain periods in our life, for each aspect, especially entertainment. Personally, I feel I was "moving with times" till I was about 60; thereafter I started getting a feeling that many things are changing in such a way that I can either not find any substance in the changes or cannot grasp the enormity of the change. The modern cinema music (what goes by the name "item song" or something like that) is something I find very difficult to appreciate; similarly 'some' types of "fusion" - not all, however. In my view the music of many of the old-timers had their "real" stamp, which is now rare. Just this morning I was listening to a radio programme of B.V. Raman & B.V. Lakshmanan, a genius duo who, unfortunately did not get the recognition and adulation they really deserved IMO.

Coming to Sruti, I feel as long as one can hear the music clearly (without having to strain your ears) any slip of Sruti will announce itself unless it is for a few micro-seconds. As I said in my post, there was one great parsonality who faltered in his Sruti and that is commonly known secret. But, by and large, the singers who used to give public performances cultivated their voices and music during the "lean" season; I read somewhere that even the best of them used to meticulously practice right from "variSai" in different rAgAs with "akAra" rendering whenever they felt it was necessary!

thanks to better technology, we are now able to detect 'deterioration' of sruti, which we might not have been able to before.

folks like pattanam subramania iyer has not been recorder. some other minimally. even gnb recordings are the old analog variety with a lot of background noises. in that context current recordings highlight any 'fault' instantly and magnifies them.

I am not an expert but my sons - who are all IT people - tell me that analog is more "real" and digital cannot ever come near analogue quality. Analog by itself will not create background noise.

i am quite sure kamala or gnb or madurai 'tripped' in their own time. except there are no recordings of the same. in my youth, i have been to one gnb concert, and witnessed with gusto, (thanks to my uncle next to me), gnb imbibing soma from kooja every 15 minutes or so. the concert noticeably got more creative with each swallow. i guess that this process is out of question for bharatanatyam dancers.

I am only an ordinary human when it comes to dance and do not have any knowledge of its technicalities. But as a layman, I found kamala and some others had very graceful movements which is now becoming rarer by the day, so to say. gnb used to falter in Sruti but mm not to my memory. If some one had perhaps heard/seen a lot of the performances of kamala or mm with a critics ears/eyes, probably what you say might have been found. But what we want is that we get most of the times good performances.

nowadays, the chief source of income for any classical music, is through tuition. my cousin (of the 1000 dancers fame) has about 100 students, and a few in the u.s. to whom she visits once a year, and performs arangetram (another source of lumpsum gratuity).

May be because of the mass dissemination of cm (even through the internet!) quality has been sacrificed to some extent.

classical arts are treated much the same way in the west. an elite entertainment. there is no way to compare their popularity to that of the pop music groups or cinema.

When you say "elite" does it mean the connoisseurs only or the 'upper crust' in general? I think as far as cm is concerned, the audience comprises a few of the cognoscenti, some from the upper crust - with or without a grounding in cm - and some from the hoi polloi too with an ear for music; as for bn perhaps the audience is much restricted.

one interesting phenomenon is the drama theatre. it is very strong in england, and attracts top notch talents. hollywood actors take it as an honour to be able to participate in english theatre dramas, and do so for pittance. our theatre glory days lasted till the 70s when manohar folded. tks brothers folded a few years earlier. nowadays we have only light weight stuff often urban middle class oriented, and out of tune with the masses.

Having spent my youth in Kerala, I do not know much about Tamil dramas. But I have a faint memory of seeing one drama of, possibly, tks; it was really an experience for one who had not seen a drama. Malayalam dramas in those days were mostly of the communist ideology with KPCC lording it in Travancore and, later on, in south Kerala also.

my point, is that there is no deterioration of standards, and there is more popularization, even though in tamil nadu, it is still majority TBs. other communities have to get in too, in proportion of their numbers. soon i hope the stigma associated will be removed, for the conservative elements of all communities.

On the point of deterioration of standards I will agree to disagree. AFAIK, the TNBs and all do not have any stigms as such attached to cm or bn; it is only that they are more accustomed to and influenced by their age-old art forms like karakaattam, kaavadiyaattam, villu paattu, etc.

also, i am against the so called sampradaya purity. art has to evolve, like anything else. one must remember that any production is a time stamped output, and there is no reason, why new winds of change and influence cannot be incorporated. for a while in the 70s, padmini came up with the concept of dance dramas, which were awesome. but those too have gone wayside,

I agree that art also evolves but I will not approve the notion that "art has to evolve" if it is meant to artificially induce evolution or change by compulsory external inputs. No one today sings (can sing?) in the fashion of Chembai or Musiri or even MDR; that, I feel, is due to natural evolution which is good.

personally, i like the fusion stuff. not all. but some. let us leave it at that.

I sail in the same boat as I remarked earlier.

as always, you are a delight to correspond with. God Bless.

Thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

without much ado, right from the horse's mouth... or from a prettier source re the live experience of being one of 1000 in thanjavur...

The Hindu : Arts / Dance : Rhythmic tribute

 

[NSP]

The 'Rasikas' as I understand are those knowledgeable enough to appreciate the music or dance being performed. they are different from those who are going to theater to watch movies wherein no prior knowledge is expected. No doubt the performances can be enjoyed by those without any knowledge also. But these people will shy away from sharing their experience. The effect of any art will induce the audience to share their experience. A recital of BN dance at a temple in the outskirts of Chennai city brings good number of audience who are not Rasikas. They share their experience without any inhibition. But in Chennai Sabhas, an aura has been created that it is for Rasikas. Others keep out.

How to create Rasikas? I really do not know. I only know that no attempt is being made in the formal curriculum. If drawing can be there in the curriculum, why not these dances and music? The Nattuvanars, who teach BN, are generally not happy about Brahmins teaching BN. They feel Brahmins teaching BN are violating a sort of copy right. One of the teacher inquired me that all of the styles like Vazhuvur, Thanjai etc can be patented, if right can be attached to their family. What is your take on this? Should Brahmins teach or perform?

Vertical and Horizontal are all there. I just meant that the people with business suppose to be patronizing this art are doing it for the benefit of their business.Overlap of the business interest is the integration.

Will you are your school performing this season in Chennai madam?

Mr. NSP,

Please clarify the differences between "catering for the rasikas" and " creating rasikas"?

We can only lead a horse to the water but we can't drink the water for the sake of the horse!

I know "Differentiation" and "Integration" but I am hearing about a "Vertical Integration" for the first time!

What is a Vertical Integration? Is there a corresponding "Horizontal Integration" too?

Looking forward to you explanation,

with best wishes
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. NSP,

For enjoying music NO foundation is needed.

Small children, animals, snakes and birds can enjoy music. Haven't you seen in the pictures, a cluster of animals surrounding Lord Krishna when He plays His flute?

In fact those with less foundation enjoy the music better-since they don't get involved in the technical points.

No sabha can keep out the prospective audience and still survive in Chennai!

Dance recitals are pleasing visuals performed by well decorated and pretty youngsters. No wonder the perfromance draws a good crowd, even when arranged in the outskirts of chennai.

No copy right for Paanis! They should actually relax the paanis and infuse fresh elements in their dance forms.

Brahmins can perform when they are young and change over to teaching as their age progresses-both for practical reasons and for the visual delight of the audience!

Dance and music can not be included in the school curriculum. I know how difficult it is to teach pupils not interested in these arts.

Well, those who promote classical arts will definetely like to benifit out of it in some way or other. No one is 100% selfless in this world. That they continue to promote these arts is itself a great thing deserving our appreciation.

Your explanation of vertical integration is not at all satisfactory!

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Harini]

In my opinion a Cinema Dance Director would have made a better work of 1000 X Bharathanatyam by some innovation. Things like Rasa Garba are excellent feast even when only the Thala is in Sync amongst the performers in it.

Bharathanatyam performers do only Dance Drama with large numbers and it always ends in dispute as to who should do the lead role. Such attitudes comes from indiscipline and ego. Bharathanatyam has got everything in it to bring in clinical precision in synchronization and coordination with any number. Padma madam has failed to experiment with such great tools.

Dear Ms. Harini,

The questions in #50 were put on your behalf and were not directed to you!

1000 member strong dance recital will be fit only for Guinness Record. Isn't their motto "More the merrier!"

A dance recital by 1, 2 or 3 persons is best to watch. The number can be safely increased to 5 or 7 or even 9. Beyond that perfect coordination becomes very difficult.

This is not film dancing where a few movements are sufficient to perform all dance numbers.

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Ms.Harini,

If only the rhythm or thalam has to be maintained, synchronization among a large number of participants is possible.

But Bharata Naytam involves mudras, bhaavas and Rasas! Larger the group, more difficult to synchronize.

We should however appreciate Dr. Padma's courage in taking up a project of this magnitude. May be the group will do much better next time.

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Harini]

One should not allow respect for an artiste to prejudice the appreciation or criticism of their performance. Just like 'Sruthi' in music, 'rhythm' and 'thala' are fundamental for dance and should not be allowed to waver no matter how many are performing. Great spectacles are possible with good number in Bharathanatyam also and the inauguration ceremony of CWG has proved it to some extent. Thanjavur gave greater opportunity then CWG for Bharathanatyam and therefore much more should have been delivered.

About CWG, I found our 'Thavil' or even 'Mridhangam' was missing in the grand performances with the drums. Just like our Bharathanatyam artistes, our other artistes also do not gel well for grand performances. Here all live a life of 'thani Aaavarthanam'.

Dear Ms.Harini,

If only the rhythm or thalam has to be maintained, synchronization among a large number of participants is possible.

But Bharata Naytam involves mudras, bhaavas and Rasas! Larger the group, more difficult to synchronize.

We should however appreciate Dr. Padma's courage in taking up a project of this magnitude. May be the group will do much better next time.

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Ms. Harini,

May be gelling well with others is not the solution to all the problems.

May be some people shine better when placed alone.

It takes all kinds of people to make up the world.

It is said that a (drama) critic is one "who does not leave any turn unstoned."

it is so easy to find fault but the people involved in the show will have different stories to tell

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Harini]

But I was telling about those who were not seen in the CWG show. They will only sing my story. They were left alone but not with the intention of facilitating them to excel.

it is so easy to find fault but the people involved in the show will have different stories to tell

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Anybody can become a Subbudu (a famous music critic) but

there can be only one Subbulakshmi (Bharat Ratna M.S.S)

 

[R. Ramanujan]

Sir ji One of the deciding factor to be a Brahmin should be based on the expertise in the fine arts of Bharathanatyam and Saastriya sangeetham. well i agree with this point. plus veda knowledge, good knowledge of mother tongue and sanskrit, yoga and hinduism.
In past others could not learn it simply coz they kept to themselves and brahmins never allowed them to mix with them/allowed them. so thats why they have always excelled in it.
well things r changing.

nandrigal.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Ramanujan,

There are certain things which even if given freely, can not be ingested or digested by all the people.

Only persons who have single minded devotion can learn the higher branches of knowledge.

I have heard a story in a Vedanta class.

One day a student of gurukulam asked the wife of his guru who was serving him food, why she would always give him only Til oil and never once pure ghee!

When the wife reported the incident to her husband, the guru, he promptly sent back the student since he was more interested in food than in education.

The guru was wonder struck that the boy could distinguish between oil and ghee-unlike his other students.

Those were the days when people had to learn every thing by heart-as there were no written books or printed books.

with best wishes,
Mrs.V.R.

 

[Harini]

Why should musicians shy away from criticism? It is only critics like Subbudu can get the best from MS. Critics just express demand for higher quality. This is appreciated in any society valuing merit. But that is not Tamilnadu.

Anybody can become a Subbudu (a famous music critic) but

there can be only one Subbulakshmi (Bharat Ratna M.S.S)

 

[NSP]

It is illegal to dance in temple or before deity and it will be deemed as prostitution. This is what the law seems to mean as per the following link!

NITYASUMANGALI - Devadasi Tradition In South India

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Don't start the topic again please!

Don't degrade high class artists!

What do you really know about them?

What do you know about their life style?

Don't try to relate the obsolete concepts of the past with the present-the 21st Century!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

M.S.S. would have given the world her best music-
in spite of the presence or absence of a Subbudu!

She was too great to need to be shaped by the
scalpels of the so called critics-who make the
artists wish that, they were never born!

 

[kunjuppu]

M.S.S. would have given the world her best music-
in spite of the presence or absence of a Subbudu!

She was too great to need to be shaped by the
scalpels of the so called critics-who make the
artists wish that, they were never born!

very correct visa.

as jawaharlal nehru said of M.S., ' .. before her i am merely a mortal'...

i see a tendency to rewrite history among many. they look backwards and count the supposed crimes committed against the hindus. i wonder if they would include the crimes committed by caste hindus against the dalits.

one of these years, the united nations is going to brand this as another cimes against humanity. already the u.k. has done this.

if you go to the u.k., and prevent a dalit from coming to a temple (this has happened and hence the law), you will be charged per the hate crimes law. maybe we can learn some more from the british after all..

thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

Why should musicians shy away from criticism? It is only critics like Subbudu can get the best from MS. Critics just express demand for higher quality. This is appreciated in any society valuing merit. But that is not Tamilnadu.

harini,

anyone can be a critic. it does not take much to find faults (or kudos).

it takes more than that to excel. MS is the benchmark of excellence. subbudu perhaps should be confined to the garbage heap of history, as none of this critiques have been worht preserving.

if you need an example of good criticism of the arts, google for pauline kael. she was the movie critique at new yorker magazine. her every review of movie was a classic product by itself, and has stood the test of time.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

When the artists come out to perform in the public, the people think they become public property!

They can chase them, stalk them, comment on them and their personal lives and deny them even a minute of privacy.

This should become a crime punishable by law!

Artists are also human beings. They have their plus points and minus points. No one is perfect in the world. That does not entitle the public to give them a hard time.

Already they are under pressure for contemporary competitors and the general public seems to add fuel to the fire.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Ms. Harini,

Any one can taste the food and find any number of faults.

That does not mean that the fault finders are better cooks!

The same thing with the critics. They can only find faults.

They can't sing or dance!

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[RKB]

An umpire is not a player in Cricket. He need not be a player of yesteryear as well. Same goes with the commentator in the game. But the game is not complete without them. Try to look at Critics as those showing you the scope for improvement.

But Subbudu is very good with his instrument. Though he has not performed, his vocal is also good. In reality all the percussionist are viewed as good critics and even very seniors take their take after every performance.

Dear Ms. Harini,

Any one can taste the food and find any number of faults.

That does not mean that the fault finders are better cooks!

The same thing with the critics. They can only find faults.

They can't sing or dance!

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[NSP]

If this is the law, it has to be repealed. If you have a strong feeling, then your voice should be stronger than others in this regard madam. Can it be illegal to perform in temples?

Don't start the topic again please!

Don't degrade high class artists!

What do you really know about them?

What do you know about their life style?

Don't try to relate the obsolete concepts of the past with the present-the 21st Century!