Brahmin Community - Disintegrating by settling abroad !!

[ozone]

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well, if Irish Americans, Europeans, Jews are so focussed on preserving their culture, religion, Identity, then we have every right to worry about our Hindu culture & Identity !!

It would be interesting to understand what and how they preserve.
Is it that they identify with historical events and continue some of their past traditions?
How do they deal with marriages across communities etc.,?
This is a serious question from an ignorant and not a mock.

 

[Jaykay767]

It would be interesting to understand what and how they preserve.
Is it that they identify with historical events and continue some of their past traditions?
How do they deal with marriages across communities etc.,?
This is a serious question from an ignorant and not a mock.

Hi Ozone,

First off - Christianity is in a major revival mode in the US. for eg. Bobby Jindal & Nick Halley, Obama, many others had to declare they are practicing christians during their elections !

The Irish Americans, Jews, Italians, encourage their kids to marry within the community, they propagate their religion, language, traditions like Christmas, Thanks Giving, Good Friday etc.. No of Irish Churches have sprung up in US, similarly Jews places of worship. Easy citizenship to Ireland/Israel for the kids born outside.

In the case of cross marriages, they try & push these families to adopt their religion/culture. for eg, if a Irish marries outside, there is a lot of pressure (irrespective of boy or girl who marries outside) to adopt Irish customs !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[prasad1]

It would be interesting to understand what and how they preserve.
Is it that they identify with historical events and continue some of their past traditions?
How do they deal with marriages across communities etc.,?
This is a serious question from an ignorant and not a mock.

I think we maintain what we want and it is an individual's choice. I might stay in TN Village and follow EVR and my TB culture is dead. Or I might stay in Boston and be like BostonShankara and learn and maintain Tamil culture.

Also the grass is greener across the fence. If you ask the Iris american they too lament in their own way.
http://www.gaelicweb.com/irishampost/year2005/11nov/featured/featured11.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2558753/postshttp://books.google.com/books/about/Inauthentic.html?id=dEiHPeU9xrMC
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[h=3]America[/h]www3.undpress.nd.edu/excerpts/P01486-ex.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
itself in the social and cultural context of an ireland divorced from the shaping literary.... loss of the irish language or, in the case of irish America, toward an au- ...
[PDF]


[h=3]UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN – EAU CLAIRE Irish Assimilation in ...[/h]minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstream/handle/1793/.../OconnellFall10.pdf?...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
Byron describes many factors contributing to his idea of the loss of Irish culture. Firstly he explains that American historians popularize and romanticize events ...

 

[Jaykay767]

I think we maintain what we wantand it is an individual's choice. I might stay in TN Village and follow EVR andmy TB culture is dead. Or I might stay in Boston and be like BostonShankara andlearn and maintain Tamil culture.

Hi Prasad,

Agree, culture varies from family to family but the core Hindu values,traditions, customs remain. Deepavali is celebrated in all families but each ofthem may have a different way to do it.

In this case, I am not referring to what one wants to maintain. It is eitherpreserved (in full or partial or somewhat ) or "lost completely" likein the case of TB/Chinese family !!

My concern in this thread is those cases where it is "lostcompletely" & how do we avoid this !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[biswa]

The (2nd gen and beyond) Irish in America seem much more American than Irish to me. In fact they only way they seem to celebrate their heritage is by drinking a lot of green beer on St Patrick's Day. Or it could be that much of America has turned Irish?

But in any case isn't it natural that when you reside in a foreign land you will lose some of the characteristics of your homeland? Surely that is a choice the immigrants have made?

 

[renuka]

With due intimation and respect to dear Renuka, she said long before that she found herself sharing "Paalum Pazhammum" as newly wedded couples in their respective homes (that is done to solemnize new member's entry in in-laws home), in front of group of relatives was too embarrassing and irritating. That is the impact on PIO's owing to their wider knowledge and intellect and the sense of exploring relevancy of this tradition with respect to the present Globalized era, where there exists the practices of Live in Relationship anywhere, below the roof.

My dear Ravi,

I believe in the Culture that makes one a true human being.
You are qouting me out of context.
I never said I find that irritating cos I was only under the impression that sharing the milk and fruit is a private affair like what it is shown in the movies.

Ravi BTW I think you and I have a different understanding of culture.
As far as I know people tend to view culture outwardly.
I will give you an example:

In Jan 2011 when I was in India., I remember buying some small key chains and ganesha idols from a stall run by a beautiful tamil lady.
I think I said this before in forum.

Ok..she asked me my name and I told her.
She then even asked me if I was married and I said yes.
She asked me my son's name and I said Varun.
First she thought I was from Delhi(god knows why she thought that) but when I spoke to her in Tamil she was very excited.

She then told me that she is from Tiruvannamalai and asked me if I even knew where that was.
I said yes I knew and its famous for Arunchaleswar Temple.
And she was OMG you actually know something.
I was thinking she was lucky that I didnt tell her that the famed Swami Nithyananda was from Tiruvannamalai too!!!LOL

Ok next she said "let me test you" and she said 'do you even know the meaning of your son's name Varun"

So I thought to myself..that I have to keep my answers simple obviously I dint want to start from the Root word (Vaari) denoting water blah blah blah so I told her Varun is the name of Varuna Bhagawan.

Then I told her I wanted to buy a shawl that had OM Namah Shivaya on it and she was"you read Hindi?"

I told her well thats actually Sanskrit on that shawl.

Then when I was leaving she asked me this 'You know more than what I expected but how come you are not wearing a saree and a pottu and Thali?"

I didnt tell her anything but just laughed to myself..that people judge a person based on outward appearance and not what a person is within.
So let her have the last word cos that will make her happy.

Ok Ravi now back to you..see culture is not always about who does what and who doesnt do this or that.
Being a PIO doesnt mean that culture is getting eroded.

Some of us might be on the beach in a bikini but still thinking of God when we take a swim in the ocean.


Culture is all about being a true human being and I have come to realize that being NON JUDGEMENTAL is a good start to be a true human even though its not easy.

I might not follow certain rituals in life like Pottu,Thali,or even celebrate certain festivals but I can safely say I am well within the Culture of Humanity.

I am trying to realize God within and not look for external signs and symptoms of culture on anyone else.

The day I can realize that I am also God (Aham Brahmaasmi) that is the day I have attained the true culture that God wanted me to learn.

Ravi there is lots more to life than Paalum Pazhammum.

 

[prasad1]

Reneka,
I kept asking the same question "what is culture", Mr. jk, Ravi, and raju were getting irritated with me. To me culture means different than what it means to them. I do admit that practice is changing, but Like Biswa said it is natural. I know Irish american, Greek american lamenting the loss of heritage.
I guess Mr. JK has not met any old Irish American, or Greek american, or Chinese american who also feel that their culture is lost.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,
I kept asking the same question "what is culture", Mr. jk, Ravi, and raju were getting irritated with me. To me culture means different than what it means to them. I do admit that practice is changing, but Like Biswa said it is natural. I know Irish american, Greek american lamenting the loss of heritage.
I guess Mr. JK has not met any old Irish American, or Greek american, or Chinese american who also feel that their culture is lost.

Now I am going to get poetic..

Oh what have I brought that its loss I am lamenting about?
Do I have to lament that I failed to bring my past birth record?
Dear God You want us to discard ..You make the journey lighter,
Oh God but why do we have to be dragged down by man made culture.

Dear man..fear not what we have to lose.
Existence matters most and not the self imposed noose,
In this impermanent world what is not subject to change?
Even a tree so strong was once a tiny little grain.

Why do we yearn to leave an impression?
A desire not met only spells depression,
I rather spend my time searching within,
Let everything else be Gone with the Wind.

 

[Jaykay767]

Reneka,
I kept asking the same question "what is culture", Mr. jk, Ravi, andraju were getting irritated with me. To me culture means different than what itmeans to them. I do admit that practice is changing, but Like Biswa said it isnatural. I know Irish american, Greek american lamenting the loss of heritage.
I guess Mr. JK has not met any old Irish American, or Greek american, orChinese american who also feel that their culture is lost.

Hi Prasad,

Agree, even the Irish American, Greek, Chinese etc.. feel that their culture islost !!. But that doesnt mean we lose our culture as well !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[Jaykay767]

The (2nd gen and beyond) Irish in America seem much more American than Irish to me. In fact they only way they seem to celebrate their heritage is by drinking a lot of green beer on St Patrick's Day. Or it could be that much of America has turned Irish?

But in any case isn't it natural that when you reside in a foreign land you will lose some of the characteristics of your homeland? Surely that is a choice the immigrants have made?

Agreed !. I am only bringing this topic up for all of us to debate & see if we can do something to preserve our culture.

if some consciously are okay to lose 1000s of years of family traditions, then there is not much anyone can do.

I dont think the immigrants are consciously doing it - at least from my experience. they all rush to the west for better prospects, they hope to come back after sometime, never happens. Once the kids get into the teens, they cannot adjust back in india, so they settle their permanently.

PS: This is what the father of the TB person (married to Chinese) was lamenting over Jack Daniels to me & sadly recalled the customs/traditions his family was following which are totally lost now

 

[renuka]

A
PS: This is what the father of the TB person (married to Chinese) was lamenting over Jack Daniels to me

Dear Jaykay,

You know I once had a chinese female patient who was married to a Tamilian Hindu(NB).
Once I had to do an ECG for her and I told her to remove her Thali and she was "Doctor..how can I remove it and further more today is Friday...I wont remove my Thali."

Some of them Chinese ladies married to Indians do follow Indian tradition fully.

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Jaykay,

You know I once had a chinese female patient who was married to a Tamilian Hindu(NB).
Once I had to do an ECG for her and I told her to remove her Thali and she was "Doctor..how can I remove it and further more today is Friday...I wont remove my Thali."

Some of them Chinese ladies married to Indians do follow Indian tradition fully.

Great to hear !!

 

[renuka]

Check this out...Hanuman appeared in the Homa Fire in New Jersey.
God has no problems manifesting Himself in any part of the world..so why think Culture is on the decline?
Click on image to enlarge it.

Hanuman appeared in Agni…… on the day of Ramanavami !

Date: Saturday, March 31st
Time: 8am to 10am
Place : Shri Krshna Vrundavana, New Jersey.
Homa performed By : Yogeendra Bhat
Homa was Sponsored and Photo taken By: Dr. Raghunandan​

​

 

[ozone]

Reneka,
I kept asking the same question "what is culture", Mr. jk, Ravi, and raju were getting irritated with me. To me culture means different than what it means to them. I do admit that practice is changing, but Like Biswa said it is natural. I know Irish american, Greek american lamenting the loss of heritage.
I guess Mr. JK has not met any old Irish American, or Greek american, or Chinese american who also feel that their culture is lost.

Let me try an attempt to see if some aspects of culture have evolved or lost.
(This may or may not be in line with JK's OP purpose)
Culture (or tradition I see can be used interchangeably here) starts right from the time we wake up. It is our practice to start the day with cleaning the front yard, decorating it with Kolam, taking your bath, lighting a lamp and then setting up your cooking. Before you partake your food, few words of praise or thanks and offerings to your ishta devata or kula devata. To what extent has the world changed to dump these? To a large extent these practices are still in vogue in India barring some very evolved families who find it a fashion to shun them. In the west you see these only in a few families. The norm is to cook for a week, dump it in the Fridge and consume it through the week. This is not a tradition. Even science has no explanation for consuming this stale and frozen food.

 

[Jaykay767]

Let me try an attempt to see if some aspects of culture have evolved or lost.
(This may or may not be in line with JK's OP purpose)
Culture (or tradition I see can be used interchangeably here) starts right from the time we wake up. It is our practice to start the day with cleaning the front yard, decorating it with Kolam, taking your bath, lighting a lamp and then setting up your cooking. Before you partake your food, few words of praise or thanks and offerings to your ishta devata or kula devata. To what extent has the world changed to dump these? To a large extent these practices are still in vogue in India barring some very evolved families who find it a fashion to shun them. In the west you see these only in a few families. The norm is to cook for a week, dump it in the Fridge and consume it through the week. This is not a tradition. Even science has no explanation for consuming this stale and frozen food.

Absolutely !. I would add some knowledge/learning on our vedic texts will be good

 

[renuka]

Let me try an attempt to see if some aspects of culture have evolved or lost.
(This may or may not be in line with JK's OP purpose)
Culture (or tradition I see can be used interchangeably here) starts right from the time we wake up. It is our practice to start the day with cleaning the front yard, decorating it with Kolam, taking your bath, lighting a lamp and then setting up your cooking. Before you partake your food, few words of praise or thanks and offerings to your ishta devata or kula devata. To what extent has the world changed to dump these? To a large extent these practices are still in vogue in India barring some very evolved families who find it a fashion to shun them. In the west you see these only in a few families. The norm is to cook for a week, dump it in the Fridge and consume it through the week. This is not a tradition. Even science has no explanation for consuming this stale and frozen food.

Ok let me add a few points:

Out here we cook almost twice a day cos its not good to eat stale food.
Frozen and re heated food comes under Tamasic category.
So none of us do this here at all.

Kolam or Rangoli is drawn on festivals and for Diwali last year my son even made some cartoon rangoli besides an AUM rangoli.

Most of us do recite the food prayers before we eat.

So nothing is really lost I feel.

I was wondering how come the same people who keep harping on tradition and culture dont mind wearing pants and shirt to work?LOL!!!

 

[renuka]

Absolutely !. I would add some knowledge/learning on our vedic texts will be good

My dear Jaykay,

Most of us here make an attempt to learn such text too.
My father conducts religious classes for children and adults every week.
When I was in India in my stay I remember I had an Iyengar friend from a traditional family whose parents were looking out for a groom.

So she was asked to polish up her knowledge in mantras,bhajans etc.
I remember I spent a lot of time teaching her all the mantras until her parents commented that "renu we might itself ask the groom to marry you instead"

So we really cant take it for granted that everyone in India knows their stuff.


P.S BTW I do not tend to imply that a persons lack of knowledge of Mantras is synonym with lack of Bhakti.
Bhakti is different from Vibhakti.
My friend had lots of Bhakti in God.

 

[ozone]

I was wondering how come the same people who keep harping on tradition and culture dont mind wearing pants and shirt to work?LOL!!!

Actually, I wouldnt mind it, but since my work involves jumping the tables and climbing the ladders, I decided it would be more comfortable for others if I am in Pants.
Now that the company is thinking of offering such tasks to ladies with skirts, I think I can switch back

 

[renuka]

Now that the company is thinking of offering such tasks to ladies with skirts, I think I can switch back

So whats the problem dear? shouldnt that make everyone in the office happy with the Darshan they are going to receive?LOL!!

 

[Jaykay767]

Infact there is not much difference between Hindus & christian lifestyles !!. they pray before food every day, celebrate all the festivals, read / attend Church prayers !!.

this is what we are saying we should do as Hindus which our ancestors have been following for 1000s of yrs !!

 

[Jaykay767]

My dear Jaykay,

Most of us here make an attempt to learn such text too.
My father conducts religious classes for children and adults every week.
When I was in India in my stay I remember I had an Iyengar friend from atraditional family whose parents were looking out for a groom.

So she was asked to polish up her knowledge in mantras,bhajans etc.
I remember I spent a lot of time teaching her all the mantras until her parentscommented that "renu we might itself ask the groom to marry youinstead"

So we really cant take it for granted that everyone in India knows their stuff.


P.S BTW I do not tend to imply that a persons lack of knowledge of Mantras issynonym with lack of Bhakti.
Bhakti is different from Vibhakti.
My friend had lots of Bhakti in God.

Hi Renuka,

if you ask a Christian, they will recite entire pages from the Bible. eventhose who dont follow any rituals, customs, or attend church, will tell you thecore essence of Bible.

The Hindus in the west, have completely forgotten our roots & moved away.they have NO clue on our scriptures, nobody is saying learn mantras - OMG thatstoo much to ask , we have moved our expectations to the lowest level. even ifthey know the word - Veda - we would be pleased !!

Look at Nick Halley, Bobby Jindal - they are more happy to proclaim themselvesas christians !! I can point to many more such cases from my friend/colleaguecircle !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

if you ask a Christian, they will recite entire pages from the Bible. eventhose who dont follow any rituals, customs, or attend church, will tell you thecore essence of Bible.

The Hindus in the west, have completely forgotten our roots & moved away.they have NO clue on our scriptures, nobody is saying learn mantras - OMG thatstoo much to ask , we have moved our expectations to the lowest level. even ifthey know the word - Veda - we would be pleased !!

Look at Nick Halley, Bobby Jindal - they are more happy to proclaim themselvesas christians !! I can point to many more such cases from my friend/colleaguecircle !!

Cheers,
JK

Dear JK,

I have no idea who you have met from the west?
How come all those I meet know lots about religion,culture,art and dance?
They speak with heavy american accents but still know everything about what is supposed to be known.

Most of my friend from USA who studied with me in India were still even vegetarians and these were also some Non Brahmins.

I really have no idea who you have met from the west.

 

[renuka]

Infact there is not much difference between Hindus & christian lifestyles !!. they pray before food every day, celebrate all the festivals, read / attend Church prayers !!.

this is what we are saying we should do as Hindus which our ancestors have been following for 1000s of yrs !!

Well I beg to differ..there is lots of difference between Hindu and Christian lifestyles.
Christians are always so sure they are going to heaven and every non christian rots in hell.
They are not so open minded as it seems to be.

We Hindus on the other hand are the ultimateஇளிச்சவாய்''s who at times give too much space to others to dictate us.

I might not be a culture obsessed person but I certainly dont want to be an இளிச்சவாய்.

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear JK,

I have no idea who you have met from the west?
How come all those I meet know lots about religion,culture,art and dance?
They speak with heavy american accents but still know everything about what is supposed to be known.

Most of my friend from USA who studied with me in India were still even vegetarians and these were also some Non Brahmins.

I really have no idea who you have met from the west.

Hi Renuka,

Let me repeat again !!. Pl look at the 2nd, 3rd gen kids of Indian immigrants !!

you re referring to the 1st gen like you who are all rooted in our culture. Pl look at the kids of those who migrated in 50s/60s/70s like Bobby Jindal, Nick Halley !!

Cheers,
JK

 

[Jaykay767]

Well I beg to differ..there is lots of difference between Hindu and Christian lifestyles.
Christians are always so sure they are going to heaven and every non christian rots in hell.
They are not so open minded as it seems to be.

We Hindus on the other hand are the ultimateஇளிச்சவாய்''s who at times give too much space to others to dictate us.

I might not be a culture obsessed person but I certainly dont want to be an இளிச்சவாய்.

I was just referring to the similarity of lifestyles certainly not "comparing" the religions. !!