A very Unusual Hindu wedding.

[Janaki Jambunathan]

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I am sorry.
It was a boy-boy marriage.
When I said the bride (boy) I assumed it was clear.

Joy Joy this year.Boy Boy next year! was the message tagged with a gift I received for my wedding decades back- That was the conventional thinking about wedding at that time It is all different or Ulta now For this Boy Boy marriage reversing the message could be highly insensitive - This may be appropriate Boy Boy this year Enjoy for Ever!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

There is nothing wrong in something acting as a guidance for us. That guidance from tradition generally stood the test of time and so based on enduring principles. One may add to it or adapt it according to times but not wise to reject it and so traditional views definitely have a place in guiding one's thoughts.

Dear Sravna,

I do not have an acute need to be "good".

I like to flirt with the idea of being free and let myself flow with my thoughts...there is a certain beauty to let the mind float even if at times it tilts poles...enjoy the intoxication that pleasure and pain gives.

I do not strive to be spiritual...neither do I want to be evil.

I cant define how I would want to be.

Traditional or modern..that does not describe me for those are the ways of the world...not mine.

What is me? What is mine?

I don't know...yet I don't want to know!

Why care? Let the bliss of ignorance envelop my mind for all I care.

In ignorance at times we find freedom but at the same time knowledge forms a prison.

So do I want to escape or be bound?

What if I desire neither?

 

[renuka]

I am sorry.
It was a boy-boy marriage.
When I said the bride (boy) I assumed it was clear.

Sorry..I was just a bit confused.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I do not have an acute need to be "good".

I like to flirt with the idea of being free and let myself flow with my thoughts...there is a certain beauty to let the mind float even if at times it tilts poles...enjoy the intoxication that pleasure and pain gives.

I do not strive to be spiritual...neither do I want to be evil.

I cant define how I would want to be.

Traditional or modern..that does not describe me for those are the ways of the world...not mine.

What is me? What is mine?

I don't know...yet I don't want to know!

Why care? Let the bliss of ignorance envelop my mind for all I care.

In ignorance at times we find freedom but at the same time knowledge forms a prison.

So do I want to escape or be bound?

What if I desire neither?

Well Renuka, I also believe that one should not force oneself to be something one is not. Being true to nature is the right thing to do provided it does not mean harm to others.

 

[Raji Ram]

........This may be appropriate Boy Boy this year Enjoy for Ever!

How about this: Boy Boy this year! Joy Joy for ever!!

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

How about this: Boy Boy this year! Joy Joy for ever!!

Sounds better!

 

[Raji Ram]

Sounds better!

:yo:

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

In an organization of good repute, where more than 10000 people work, in my friend's project 2 ladies in their mid-twenties joined 2 years ago. They were always together, had lunch together, went for tea break together, sometimes found smoking in the smoking zone together, if one went on sick leave other was also on leave. Both of them when asked individually if they were married they answered in the affirmative and when enquired who are staying with them (to know if their in-laws are with them) they would answer they are staying with their spouses. My friend and her colleagues thought they were perhaps best friends since childhood. a few months ago both of them were suddenly transferred to different projects in different locations far apart. My friend and her colleagues were wondering at the reason for this sudden transfer which seemed not required. however when inquisitively investigated they found that their management had discovered they were married to each other and hence decided to put them in different projects coz as per their company policy 2 people married to each other could not be in same project.

And there are numerous such cases in the city we live.

kali yuga or kaali yuga whatever you call it. this has become almost common in the current times.

 

[prasad1]

Why blame the Kali yuga.
In Ramayana by Rajaji, that Ahalya had seen through the disguise of Indra when he approached her and she accepted his advances.
Extramarital relation must have been in vogue in TRETA yuga.

Mahabharata took place in the Dwapara Yuga.
Incest, Rape, extra Marital relations must have been rampant.

I am not degrading these epics, nor am I degrading the message in these epics. I am just pointing out that every yuga, and every civilization has different practices, they seem out of place to others.

Going back to opening post, I am not a traditionalist.
But even to me the marriage ritual performed for this gay wedding was unusual. The Kanya Danam was height of hypocrisy.

 

[Raji Ram]

You are yet to answer my Q, Prasad Sir.

How was the boy bride dressed up? Like a male or female?

 

[tbs]

Why blame the Kali yuga.
In Ramayana by Rajaji, that Ahalya had seen through the disguise of Indra when he approached her and she accepted his advances.
Extramarital relation must have been in vogue in TRETA yuga.

Mahabharata took place in the Dwapara Yuga.
Incest, Rape, extra Marital relations must have been rampant.

I am not degrading these epics, nor am I degrading the message in these epics. I am just pointing out that every yuga, and every civilization has different practices, they seem out of place to others.

Going back to opening post, I am not a traditionalist.
But even to me the marriage ritual performed for this gay wedding was unusual. The Kanya Danam was height of hypocrisy.

hi

it should be KUMARA DHANAM.....may be replacing KANYA TO KUMARA...

 

[renuka]

The Kanya Danam was height of hypocrisy.

Prasad ji...its not hypocrisy.

Why think of Kanya as a FEMALE gender?

Kanya represents a virginal feminine principle...anyone XX or XY can identify with it.

Try to think of dance..a dance where a male dancer takes the role of a female..he become the feminine principle..sways to it and gets lost in it.

Likewise...the Gay Bride here identified himself with the Feminine Principle (Prakirti) to unite with "her" Purusha.

So Kanya Danam was actually needed.

 

[renuka]

Kanya denotes a state of purity...even a married woman who has delivered children can still feel she is Kanya cos purity is a state of mind..not just absence of hymen.

 

[auh]

Prasad ji...its not hypocrisy.

Why think of Kanya as a FEMALE gender?

Kanya represents a virginal feminine principle...anyone XX or XY can identify with it.

Try to think of dance..a dance where a male dancer takes the role of a female..he become the feminine principle..sways to it and gets lost in it.

Likewise...the Gay Bride here identified himself with the Feminine Principle (Prakirti) to unite with "her" Purusha.

So Kanya Danam was actually needed.

Doc,

The above would apply only if we subscribe to the theory that only a "female entity (FE)" can get attracted and unite with a "male entity (ME)". It is because that is what we see in the order of nature for procreation. If we move aside from procreation, it is a whole new world altogether. A slight shift in perception.

I think that love / attraction is a feeling that transcends prototypes.

 

[sravna]

This perversion of same sex attraction worse still leading to the absurdity of same sex marriage needs to be opposed strongly by all right thinking people and nipped in the bud before it leads to undesirable consequences.

Some may argue that it is a natural instinct for some but not all natural instincts are desirable from the point of view of society.

 

[auh]

This perversion of same sex attraction worse still leading to the absurdity of same sex marriage needs to be opposed strongly by all right thinking people and nipped in the bud before it leads to undesirable consequences.

Some may argue that it is a natural instinct for some but not all natural instincts are desirable from the point of view of society.

What harm does same sex marriage do to the society? Would you please elaborate?

 

[sravna]

What harm does same sex marriage do to the society? Would you please elaborate?

Dear Auh,

The most telling is , it encourages perversion to be granted acceptance. We can imagine the consequences if that becomes the case.

Also, marriage is just not for procreation and you do not need marriage for procreation. It is to foster and enhance one 's understanding of a important relationship that can have positive effect on the mind. So is the case with any other important relationships. But the point we have failed to see the deeper connotation and have come to a stage where we think marriage is for procreation.

Same sex marriage is just based on physical attraction. There is no other purpose to it. We are seeing a deteriorating situation from marriages to live ins to now same sex marriage. What next? Same sex live ins or something more creative?

 

[auh]

Dear Auh,

The most telling is , it encourages perversion to be granted acceptance. We can imagine the consequences if that becomes the case.

Also, marriage is just not for procreation and you do not need marriage for procreation. It is to foster and enhance one 's understanding of a important relationship that can have positive effect on the mind. So is the case with any other important relationships. But the point we have failed to see the deeper connotation and have come to a stage where we think marriage is for procreation.

Same sex marriage is just based on physical attraction. There is no other purpose to it. We are seeing a deteriorating situation from marriages to live ins to now same sex marriage. What next? Same sex live ins or something more creative?

Dear Sravna, the world has moved away from being only "black and white" where things that are not "normal" are perversions. If you reflect on the situation you would perhaps understand.

If we remove perversion from your reply, there is nothing that holds water in the argument. If the act is between consenting adults, why should it be treated perversion?

 

[sravna]

Dear Auh,

Why do you want to remove the word perversion.That is the central word to the argument. A perversion is something that is abnormal and undesirable. Same sex attraction is indeed not normal and same sex marriage is not desirable either.

Think of another situation. A 18 year old boy who is an adult has the abnormal desire of marrying a 50 plus year old woman and assume there is consent in the relationship. Would you accept it? Can't you see how the situation can quickly worsen if such thoughts are granted acceptance.

There is some solid reason why certain relationships are considered taboo. Moral fear is sometimes required to maintain peace and order.

 

[auh]

Dear Auh,

Why do you want to remove the word perversion.That is the central word to the argument. A perversion is something that is abnormal and undesirable. Same sex attraction is indeed not normal and same sex marriage is not desirable either.

Think of another situation. A 18 year old boy who is an adult has the abnormal desire of marrying a 50 plus year old woman and assume there is consent in the relationship. Would you accept it? Can't you see how the situation can quickly worsen if such thoughts are granted acceptance.

There is some solid reason why certain relationships are considered taboo. Moral fear is sometimes required to maintain peace and order.

Perversion is based on how people perceive things as right or wrong. The world cannot be seen through binary eyes, and hence the reason to remove the notion of "perversion". Can you explain why two persons sharing love and physical relationship is deemed perversion?

Reg. the query of marriage of the younger boy with the older woman, it is not for me to judge. There is nothing we can grant to anybody. Nobody seeks our acceptance; we are deluded into thinking that some "society" should accept and endorse the private act of an individual.

Morality is a different subject. It is subject to time, place and interpersonal beliefs.

 

[sravna]

Perversion is based on how people perceive things as right or wrong. The world cannot be seen through binary eyes, and hence the reason to remove the notion of "perversion". Can you explain why two persons sharing love and physical relationship is deemed perversion?

Reg. the query of marriage of the younger boy with the older woman, it is not for me to judge. There is nothing we can grant to anybody. Nobody seeks our acceptance; we are deluded into thinking that some "society" should accept and endorse the private act of an individual.

Morality is a different subject. It is subject to time, place and interpersonal beliefs.

Dear Auh,

I think you would agree with the abnormal part of the act because the overwhelming majority do not have same sex attraction. Though there cannot be a restraint on what a private act of an individual can be yet it cannot be granted public sanction indiscriminately. A individual is also part of the society and his acts have a bearing on other members of the society . So his acts are subject to the overall good of the society. I am sure you are not naive enough to dismiss the consequences that can crop up if every act of an individual has public sanction without restraint.

 

[auh]

Dear Auh,

I think you would agree with the abnormal part of the act because the overwhelming majority do not have same sex attraction. Though there cannot be a restraint on what a private act of an individual can be yet it cannot be granted public sanction indiscriminately. A individual is also part of the society and his acts have a bearing on other members of the society . So his acts are subject to the overall good of the society. I am sure you are not naive enough to dismiss the consequences that can crop up if every act of an individual has public sanction without restraint.

1) We cannot go with the argument that the acts approved by the majority are right and hence the minority acts are wrong.
2) Private acts of an individual that is between consenting adults and not inflicting abuse (physical or mental) to anybody need not await sanction from the society. The public need not pass judgement on an act of an individual. It only shows their lack of understanding.
3) Individuals acts that endanger the life or mental well being (as understood in the normal sense to exercise his free will) of others would definitely be scrutinized and tailored appropriately. But when the society sticks a "tag" on an act because it is deemed unnatural and immoral, there we do have a restriction of free will.

Calling same sex an act of perversion is similar to saying that "dark skinned people are in the minority and hence they are an aberration of society, and deserve to the curtailed".

 

[sravna]

1) We cannot go with the argument that the acts approved by the majority are right and hence the minority acts are wrong.
2) Private acts of an individual that is between consenting adults and not inflicting abuse (physical or mental) to anybody need not await sanction from the society. The public need not pass judgement on an act of an individual. It only shows their lack of understanding.
3) Individuals acts that endanger the life or mental well being (as understood in the normal sense to exercise his free will) of others would definitely be scrutinized and tailored appropriately. But when the society sticks a "tag" on an act because it is deemed unnatural and immoral, there we do have a restriction of free will.

Calling same sex an act of perversion is similar to saying that "dark skinned people are in the minority and hence they are an aberration of society, and deserve to the curtailed".

Dear Auh,

It is not just an act approved by the majority. It is what is natural to the majority.

There will be tag on everything and that is how one can make sense of anything. What else can unnatural and immoral act be called? What is unnatural will be called unnatural and what is immoral will be called immoral.

As I said there is no restriction on what someone does privately but if he desires public sanction, the good of the society will what dictate its acceptance and for the arguments I made I believe it is not in the interest of the society to sanction such acts.

 

[renuka]

This perversion of same sex attraction worse still leading to the absurdity of same sex marriage needs to be opposed strongly by all right thinking people and nipped in the bud before it leads to undesirable consequences.

Some may argue that it is a natural instinct for some but not all natural instincts are desirable from the point of view of society.

Dear Sravna,

I guess you have no contact with gay males and lesbian females...I know many in course of work.

Very normal..not perverts..its just that their orientation differs.

 

[renuka]

Same sex marriage is just based on physical attraction.

Are you trying to say heterosexual marriages are not based on physical attraction?