"ஸ்ரீ''- ஒரு விளக்கம் - Dinamani Velli mani 14-11-2014

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"ஸ்ரீ''- ஒரு விளக்கம் - Dinamani Velli mani 14-11-2014

[h=1]I saw the below article is Dinamani Vellimani 14-11-2014, as this incorrect I posted them a reply and thought of sharing with TB as how half knowledge of some people will cause misery to the public in this information age.

First of all a popular word in mentioned in scriptures can not bear different meaning in the same language to two different people based on his liking or dislike.

Here is the post

"ஸ்ரீ''- ஒரு விளக்கம்[/h]
By - பாளை. வேத நாராயணன்
First Published : 13 November 2014 06:23 PM IST

வைணவர்களைப் பொறுத்தவரையில் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற இந்த சொல் தமிழில் திரு(மகள்) என்றும் விஷ்ணுவின் பத்தினியை "தாயார்' என்றும் குறிக்கும். அளவற்ற செல்வத்தை "மகாலட்சுமி' என்பர்.
ஆனால் சைவர்களிடையே இது எதிர்மறையான விளக்கம் தருகிறது. ""ஸ்ரீகண்ட பார்வதி நாத...'' என்ற ஒரு மந்திரம் பரமசிவனைப் போற்றுகிறது.
இங்கே "ஸ்ரீ' என்றால் கொடிய விஷம்! அதாவது "கொடிய விஷத்தை தொண்டையில் நிறுத்திக் கொண்டவனே' (திரு-நீல-கண்டன்) என்று பொருள்.
ஆகையால் வைணவர்கள் செல்வம் வேண்டி பிரார்த்தனை செய்யும்போது, "ஸ்ரீ'-ஐ போற்றுதலாகவும் சைவர்கள் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற (வாழ்வியல்) நஞ்சு மற்றும் குற்றங்கள் நீங்குவதற்காகவும் பிரார்த்தனை செய்யவேண்டும்!


[h=1]Here is my reply[/h]

இது தவறான கருத்து, வேலூர் கோட்டையில் உள்ள சிவனுக்கு ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்று பெயர், அதன் பொருள் நீரை கண்டத்தில் அதாவது தொண்டை பகுதியில் உள்ளவர் என்று பொருள். இதன்படி பொருள் கொண்டால் நீர்தான் விஷம் என்றாகும்.


ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் என்பதன் உண்மையான பொருள் (மாயையை) கண்டத்தில் கொண்டவன் என்பதே


நாம் காணும் உலகமும் இதில் உள்ள இரண்டான அனைத்தும் (நல்லவை- தீயவை, பாவம்- புண்ணியம், ஒளி - இருள், ஆண் - பெண்.... - பார்க்க "இருள் சேர் இருவினையும் சேரா இறைவன் பொருள்சேர் புகழ் புரிந்தார் மாட்டு - குறள்)
மாயையின் விரிவே. இறைவன் மாயைக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டவன், அதே சமயம் தன் கீழ் நிலையில் மாயையின் உள்ளும் உளன். மாயையை தன் கண்டத்தில் கொண்டோன்


உலகம் முழுமையும் நீரால் ஆனமையால் (பார்க்க "நீரின்றி அமையாது உலகு..." - குறள்) , உலகம் மாயை என்பதால் இறைவன் ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்பது பொருந்தும்.


நம் போன்ற குறைவான அறிவு உள்ளவர்கள் இறைவனை பற்றிய குறிப்புகளுக்கு தக்க பெரியோரிடம் கேட்டு தெரிந்துகொள்ளவேண்டும் இல்லையேல் நமக்கும் பிறர்க்கும் தீங்கை விளைவிக்கும்.


அனைவர்க்கும் நல்லறிவு விளங்க இறைவனை வேண்டுகிறேன்

 

[JR]

Excellent response from you, Sir! Well done!

 

[sangom]

I saw the below article is Dinamani Vellimani 14-11-2014, as this incorrect I posted them a reply and thought of sharing with TB as how half knowledge of some people will cause misery to the public in this information age.

First of all a popular word in mentioned in scriptures can not bear different meaning in the same language to two different people based on his liking or dislike.

Here is the post

"ஸ்ரீ''- ஒரு விளக்கம்


By - பாளை. வேத நாராயணன்
First Published : 13 November 2014 06:23 PM IST

வைணவர்களைப் பொறுத்தவரையில் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற இந்த சொல் தமிழில் திரு(மகள்) என்றும் விஷ்ணுவின் பத்தினியை "தாயார்' என்றும் குறிக்கும். அளவற்ற செல்வத்தை "மகாலட்சுமி' என்பர்.
ஆனால் சைவர்களிடையே இது எதிர்மறையான விளக்கம் தருகிறது. ""ஸ்ரீகண்ட பார்வதி நாத...'' என்ற ஒரு மந்திரம் பரமசிவனைப் போற்றுகிறது.
இங்கே "ஸ்ரீ' என்றால் கொடிய விஷம்! அதாவது "கொடிய விஷத்தை தொண்டையில் நிறுத்திக் கொண்டவனே' (திரு-நீல-கண்டன்) என்று பொருள்.
ஆகையால் வைணவர்கள் செல்வம் வேண்டி பிரார்த்தனை செய்யும்போது, "ஸ்ரீ'-ஐ போற்றுதலாகவும் சைவர்கள் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற (வாழ்வியல்) நஞ்சு மற்றும் குற்றங்கள் நீங்குவதற்காகவும் பிரார்த்தனை செய்யவேண்டும்!


Here is my reply



இது தவறான கருத்து, வேலூர் கோட்டையில் உள்ள சிவனுக்கு ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்று பெயர், அதன் பொருள் நீரை கண்டத்தில் அதாவது தொண்டை பகுதியில் உள்ளவர் என்று பொருள். இதன்படி பொருள் கொண்டால் நீர்தான் விஷம் என்றாகும்.


ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் என்பதன் உண்மையான பொருள் (மாயையை) கண்டத்தில் கொண்டவன் என்பதே


நாம் காணும் உலகமும் இதில் உள்ள இரண்டான அனைத்தும் (நல்லவை- தீயவை, பாவம்- புண்ணியம், ஒளி - இருள், ஆண் - பெண்.... - பார்க்க "இருள் சேர் இருவினையும் சேரா இறைவன் பொருள்சேர் புகழ் புரிந்தார் மாட்டு - குறள்)
மாயையின் விரிவே. இறைவன் மாயைக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டவன், அதே சமயம் தன் கீழ் நிலையில் மாயையின் உள்ளும் உளன். மாயையை தன் கண்டத்தில் கொண்டோன்


உலகம் முழுமையும் நீரால் ஆனமையால் (பார்க்க "நீரின்றி அமையாது உலகு..." - குறள்) , உலகம் மாயை என்பதால் இறைவன் ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்பது பொருந்தும்.


நம் போன்ற குறைவான அறிவு உள்ளவர்கள் இறைவனை பற்றிய குறிப்புகளுக்கு தக்க பெரியோரிடம் கேட்டு தெரிந்துகொள்ளவேண்டும் இல்லையேல் நமக்கும் பிறர்க்கும் தீங்கை விளைவிக்கும்.


அனைவர்க்கும் நல்லறிவு விளங்க இறைவனை வேண்டுகிறேன்

Vaishnavam or Vaishnavam is more cultic than the general run of hinduism and usually most Vaishnavites find solace by strictly complying with whatever is ordained or instructed in their holy books, etc., and not even daring to think beyond. In this case this particular gentleman seems to have thought "out of the box", for a change, and wanted to show vaishnavism in a better light as compared to his own "frog-in-the-well" belief system. While I appreciate that you responded quickly and correctly, is not it said that xxxx may bark but the sun doesn't change his course? Is it not better to neglect such things?

 

[Vaagmi]

Vaishnavam or Vaishnavam is more cultic than the general run of hinduism and usually most Vaishnavites find solace by strictly complying with whatever is ordained or instructed in their holy books, etc., and not even daring to think beyond. In this case this particular gentleman seems to have thought "out of the box", for a change, and wanted to show vaishnavism in a better light as compared to his own "frog-in-the-well" belief system. While I appreciate that you responded quickly and correctly, is not it said that xxxx may bark but the sun doesn't change his course? Is it not better to neglect such things?

Respected Sri Sangom sirji,

I am not as much well versed in Sankrit as some members here. But Sanskrit is a language which will bite you if you go before it and will kick you if you go behind it. You may have reasons to believe that "sri"" means poison indeed. If that be the case you should have given it here in detail so that we all stand enlightened. Instead you have unnecessarily spewn your "sri" on vaishnavas. Your understanding of vaishnavas is completely wrong. They are only as much cultic as the smarthas-in fact the very word smartha stands for a kind of cultic following of smritis which includes those smritis which are not in tune with times. That brings us to vaishnavism. Vaishnavites are revolutionaries who dumped the outdated smritis, retaining only those which had valuable truths. They are people who had the guts to boldly declare that there is only one God, that worshipping multiple gods is childish, that srutis are more authoritative than the smritis which came much later and were contribution of human beings. This is the reason why you have more temples for vishnu in India. And more people among hindus worship vishnu (even iyers and other saivites) taking cover under the so called shanmatha sthapana, panchayatana pooja etc. etc., Try to come out of your box in time. Otherwise it may get sealed.

Every frog calls the other frog as the frog in the well. If you get angry after reading this post you can address me as Sri vaagmi happily. LOL.

 

[VMSGEN]

Thank you sri Sangom ji

Dear Sri Vaagmi

We should hurt none. That is the greatest sin one can ever imagine doing. I am no right person to preach this, but I am honestly trying and willing to do that. Hurting someone is hurting God only. The almighty Atma which I call Shiva and you call as Vishnu is the one is parama aanandha swaroopam, if we just lift the mind(our karmic layer which is our ego, then we become the experience of pramanandha. There is neither experiencer nor experienced. By this what we can understand is that by all our actions, as a true seeker, should help all other living and non-living beings to get rid off the karmic accumulation (which is what we do when we do anything knowing fully well that it will hurt the other). I know I am talking like a seer, but I am just a seeker in all humbleness I request only. As the moment we identify ourselves with the thought of seeking spirituality, we should be open to new learning. We can not keep a dogma or pre conceived conclusion and try to look for topics and views matching ours, this will only bolster the ego resulting in too thick a karmic layer(ego, mind)

Thats why many true and serious seekers will not be broadcasting them here or anywhere, we only need to search as we are all honestly looking for spiritual initiation.

Thanks a lot, please forgive me if I am offensive anywhere

 

[JR]

Even Shaktas call their yantras for worship as 'SRI'chakra - why is it so?

 

[vs_ramki1950]

sarvam sivaarpanam

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Is Vaishnavism is a monotheist Religion? If so, I come across a woman deity and another God with different look called Lakshmi and Anjaneya respectively. Who are they? Are they Hindu deities or just popular human beings like Rama and Krishna. Shall we worship Lakshmi, Anjaneya, Rama and Krishna? Is Vaishnavism forerunner to Islam, if it is a monotheist Religion?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I saw the below article is Dinamani Vellimani 14-11-2014, as this incorrect I posted them a reply and thought of sharing with TB as how half knowledge of some people will cause misery to the public in this information age.

First of all a popular word in mentioned in scriptures can not bear different meaning in the same language to two different people based on his liking or dislike.

Here is the post

"ஸ்ரீ''- ஒரு விளக்கம்


By - பாளை. வேத நாராயணன்
First Published : 13 November 2014 06:23 PM IST

வைணவர்களைப் பொறுத்தவரையில் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற இந்த சொல் தமிழில் திரு(மகள்) என்றும் விஷ்ணுவின் பத்தினியை "தாயார்' என்றும் குறிக்கும். அளவற்ற செல்வத்தை "மகாலட்சுமி' என்பர்.
ஆனால் சைவர்களிடையே இது எதிர்மறையான விளக்கம் தருகிறது. ""ஸ்ரீகண்ட பார்வதி நாத...'' என்ற ஒரு மந்திரம் பரமசிவனைப் போற்றுகிறது.
இங்கே "ஸ்ரீ' என்றால் கொடிய விஷம்! அதாவது "கொடிய விஷத்தை தொண்டையில் நிறுத்திக் கொண்டவனே' (திரு-நீல-கண்டன்) என்று பொருள்.
ஆகையால் வைணவர்கள் செல்வம் வேண்டி பிரார்த்தனை செய்யும்போது, "ஸ்ரீ'-ஐ போற்றுதலாகவும் சைவர்கள் "ஸ்ரீ' என்ற (வாழ்வியல்) நஞ்சு மற்றும் குற்றங்கள் நீங்குவதற்காகவும் பிரார்த்தனை செய்யவேண்டும்!


Here is my reply



இது தவறான கருத்து, வேலூர் கோட்டையில் உள்ள சிவனுக்கு ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்று பெயர், அதன் பொருள் நீரை கண்டத்தில் அதாவது தொண்டை பகுதியில் உள்ளவர் என்று பொருள். இதன்படி பொருள் கொண்டால் நீர்தான் விஷம் என்றாகும்.


ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் என்பதன் உண்மையான பொருள் (மாயையை) கண்டத்தில் கொண்டவன் என்பதே


நாம் காணும் உலகமும் இதில் உள்ள இரண்டான அனைத்தும் (நல்லவை- தீயவை, பாவம்- புண்ணியம், ஒளி - இருள், ஆண் - பெண்.... - பார்க்க "இருள் சேர் இருவினையும் சேரா இறைவன் பொருள்சேர் புகழ் புரிந்தார் மாட்டு - குறள்)
மாயையின் விரிவே. இறைவன் மாயைக்கு அப்பாற்பட்டவன், அதே சமயம் தன் கீழ் நிலையில் மாயையின் உள்ளும் உளன். மாயையை தன் கண்டத்தில் கொண்டோன்


உலகம் முழுமையும் நீரால் ஆனமையால் (பார்க்க "நீரின்றி அமையாது உலகு..." - குறள்) , உலகம் மாயை என்பதால் இறைவன் ஜலகண்டேச்வரன் என்பது பொருந்தும்.


நம் போன்ற குறைவான அறிவு உள்ளவர்கள் இறைவனை பற்றிய குறிப்புகளுக்கு தக்க பெரியோரிடம் கேட்டு தெரிந்துகொள்ளவேண்டும் இல்லையேல் நமக்கும் பிறர்க்கும் தீங்கை விளைவிக்கும்.


அனைவர்க்கும் நல்லறிவு விளங்க இறைவனை வேண்டுகிறேன்

What do you want to say Sir? What is the real meaning of Sri as per your understanding? Why are you bringing Thirukural here? It is said Thiruvalluvar was a Samanar (Jain). Do you want to amalgamate Hinduism and Jainism?

 

[vs_ramki1950]

ஸ்ரீ என்றால் அழகு என்றும் , செல்வம் என்றும் பொருள் கொள்ளலாம். ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் என்றால் சிறப்பான அழகிய கழுத்தை கொண்டவன் என்று பொருள் கொள்ளவேண்டும்.இந்த மண்ணுலகோரும் விண்ணுலகோரும் உய்ய விஷத்தை உண்ண திருஉள்ளம் கொண்டவன் ஸ்ரீ கண்டன்.விஷத்தை தான் உண்டு அமிர்தத்தை உலகிற்கு அளித்தவன் ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் .நல்லதை புரிந்து ஏற்றுக்கொள்வோம்.

 

[Vaagmi]

Is Vaishnavism is a monotheist Religion? If so, I come across a woman deity and another God with different look called Lakshmi and Anjaneya respectively. Who are they? Are they Hindu deities or just popular human beings like Rama and Krishna. Shall we worship Lakshmi, Anjaneya, Rama and Krishna? Is Vaishnavism forerunner to Islam, if it is a monotheist Religion?

Did you look into your Bible-New Testament?The answer is there. Your God is claimed to be Triune God-The Father Son and the Holy Ghost. Whom do you worship the son or father or the ghost? Read your scripture again. Or else come here and declare that Jesus is not your saviour and that Bible is not your scripture. Then we will give answers to all your questions. go evangelist go. We know your true colors. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Did you look into your Bible-New Testament?The answer is there. Your God is claimed to be Triune God-The Father Son and the Holy Ghost. Whom do you worship the son or father or the ghost? Read your scripture again. Or else come here and declare that Jesus is not your saviour and that Bible is not your scripture. Then we will give answers to all your questions. go evangelist go. We know your true colors. LOL.

You are still in Kuva..... hang over. I understand your frustration. Though the query was not directed to you, the reply was not in accordance with my requirement. What is the position of Lakshmi, Anjaneya etc. in all Perumal Temples?

They are people who had the guts to boldly declare that there is only one God, that worshipping multiple gods is childish, that srutis are more authoritative than the smritis which came much later and were contribution of human beings.

My doubt is cleared Badshah. Vaishnavism has been refined in line with Islam.

And more people among hindus worship vishnu (even iyers and other saivites) taking cover under the so called shanmatha sthapana, panchayatana pooja etc. etc.,

Naturally. Vishnu and his avatars (?) Rama and Krishna worshipped Lord Shiva. Rama built a temple at Rameshwaram. Vishnu is still searching the feet of Lord Shiva. It is said Rishaba Vahana is Vishnu. Only in South Arcot, Iyers will have the name of Govindarajan, since Govindaraja Perumal Sannadhi is in Chidambaram, who is said to be the watchman. Are you clear now?

 

[Vaagmi]

You are still in Kuva..... hang over. I understand your frustration. Though the query was not directed to you, the reply was not in accordance with my requirement. What is the position of Lakshmi, Anjaneya etc. in all Perumal Temples?

E

My doubt is cleared Badshah. Vaishnavism has been refined in line with Islam.



Naturally. Vishnu and his avatars (?) Rama and Krishna worshipped Lord Shiva. Rama built a temple at Rameshwaram. Vishnu is still searching the feet of Lord Shiva. It is said Rishaba Vahana is Vishnu. Only in South Arcot, Iyers will have the name of Govindarajan, since Govindaraja Perumal Sannadhi is in Chidambaram, who is said to be the watchman. Are you clear now?

Evangelist BS. We brahmins do not fight over BS. Declare that Jesus is not your saviour and bible is not your scripture. Then brahmins here will engage u on what you write. Till then you will be suspect. We won't be provoked by your evangelist BS. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Evangelist BS. We brahmins do not fight over BS. Declare that Jesus is not your saviour and bible is not your scripture. Then brahmins here will engage u on what you write. Till then you will be suspect. We won't be provoked by your evangelist BS. LOL.

I told you earlier you cannot antagonize me.

All the Hindu Gods are created by Lord Shiva only. Pray to Lakshmi to help Vishnu reach the feet of Lord Shiva early.

ANBE SIVAM

 

[sangom]

ஸ்ரீ என்றால் அழகு என்றும் , செல்வம் என்றும் பொருள் கொள்ளலாம். ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் என்றால் சிறப்பான அழகிய கழுத்தை கொண்டவன் என்று பொருள் கொள்ளவேண்டும்.இந்த மண்ணுலகோரும் விண்ணுலகோரும் உய்ய விஷத்தை உண்ண திருஉள்ளம் கொண்டவன் ஸ்ரீ கண்டன்.விஷத்தை தான் உண்டு அமிர்தத்தை உலகிற்கு அளித்தவன் ஸ்ரீ கண்டன் .நல்லதை புரிந்து ஏற்றுக்கொள்வோம்.

रुद्रप्रश्नम् (rudrapraśnam) says this very beautifully in the words, नमॊ नीलग्रीवाय च शितिकण्ठाय च (namo nīlagrīvāya ca śitikaṇṭhāya ca ), which means, "salutations unto the one with the white nape and the blue throat".

 

[JR]

You are still in Kuva..... hang over. I understand your frustration. Though the query was not directed to you, the reply was not in accordance with my requirement. What is the position of Lakshmi, Anjaneya etc. in all Perumal Temples?



My doubt is cleared Badshah. Vaishnavism has been refined in line with Islam.



Naturally. Vishnu and his avatars (?) Rama and Krishna worshipped Lord Shiva. Rama built a temple at Rameshwaram. Vishnu is still searching the feet of Lord Shiva. It is said Rishaba Vahana is Vishnu. Only in South Arcot, Iyers will have the name of Govindarajan, since Govindaraja Perumal Sannadhi is in Chidambaram, who is said to be the watchman. Are you clear now?

Namaste Sir

You should STOP this habit of always belittling Vaishnavam AT ONCE.

Rama, Krishna et al DID NOT WORSHIP SHIVA. There is no proof for what you are saying. Rama worshipped Sri Ranganatha whose idol was later was brought to SriRangam and Sri Krishna worshiped the deity 'Ramapriyan' (Vishnu) currently in Melkote. Rama did not build the Rameswaram temple, as much as I heard, there is not even a line in Valmiki Ramayana stating this. While Vishnu is shown searching for the feet of Shiva at Arunachala Mahatmiya, Sri Vishnu is also the ultimate 'savior' of Shiva in the story where Banasura is chasing Shvia to try out his newly acquired boon from Shiva to burn anyone as and when he placed his hand on their head. Saying Nandi is Sri Vishnu is your own original 'Kathai Katti Viduvathu' which you are trying to do because Hanuman is Shiva and he served Rama.

Please stop your hatred filled messages against Vaishnavas, as some support evidences, we can do equal amount IF WE CHOOSE TO, atleast Vaagmi ji doesn't engage you in such a 'whose great at belittling' competition, he has decently identified you as inherently 'Xitian' which is correct in my observation too.

 

[psnarasimhan]

Sarvam Sree Krishnaarpanamasthu.Narayaya,Narayana,Narayana.;;;
Periyavaal during his lifetime when he concludes his Anugraham to his devotees or when his talks with thedevotees, he always uttered the words 'Narayana Narayana Narayana' and never mentioned SivaSiva Siva.. This is quite enough for the present.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Please stop your hatred filled messages against Vaishnavas, as some support evidences, we can do equal amount IF WE CHOOSE TO, atleast Vaagmi ji doesn't engage you in such a 'whose great at belittling' competition, he has decently identified you as inherently 'Xitian' which is correct in my observation too.

Freedom of observation must be respected.

All these years, you people have been describing Shiva devotees as Asuras, in order to popularize your religion. Since Smarthas and Shaivites were quiet, you people are indulging in mud slinging. Why didn't you stop that.

Who constructed Rameswaram temple? How does the name come into existence?

Before you advise me, you people stop the hatred shown to Shiva devotees. If not, please don't move with Smarthas, leave us alone. Being a staunch Smartha, I have every right to say this.

If you endorse a holy Muslim cow calls me 'Xitian' , I will treat you also in the same category of that holy cow. It is quite natural since both belong to same community.

You can very well point out your evidences. I welcome criticism. I will not bark.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Sarvam Sree Krishnaarpanamasthu.Narayaya,Narayana,Narayana.;;;
Periyavaal during his lifetime when he concludes his Anugraham to his devotees or when his talks with thedevotees, he always uttered the words 'Narayana Narayana Narayana' and never mentioned SivaSiva Siva.. This is quite enough for the present.

That shows the religious discipline. Finally, it leads to Vellore Jail.

Siva Siva Siva Siva Siva.

 

[Vaagmi]

I told you earlier you cannot antagonize me.

All the Hindu Gods are created by Lord Shiva only. Pray to Lakshmi to help Vishnu reach the feet of Lord Shiva early.

ANBE SIVAM

Yes, even while saying this innocuous sounding invention of you, you have been very careful and faithful to your Jesus. So according to you All the Hindu Gods are created by Lord Shiva only. Not including Jesus Christ. Why our Siva should create only Hindu Gods and leave aside the Christian God? Is it because you do not want to antagonize your original milk powder masters? Evangelist, your slip is again showing. Go cover yourself up. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Yes, even while saying this innocuous sounding invention of you, you have been very careful and faithful to your Jesus. So according to you All the Hindu Gods are created by Lord Shiva only. Not including Jesus Christ. Why our Siva should create only Hindu Gods and leave aside the Christian God? Is it because you do not want to antagonize your original milk powder masters? Evangelist, your slip is again showing. Go cover yourself up. LOL.

It shows your absolute ignorance. Since I am a Hindu Smartha, I can talk about only Hindu Gods. Be steady. Why should I talk about other Religion? You should not expect me to behave like you Janab (!).

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Namaste Sir

You should STOP this habit of always belittling Vaishnavam AT ONCE.

Rama, Krishna et al DID NOT WORSHIP SHIVA. There is no proof for what you are saying. Rama worshipped Sri Ranganatha whose idol was later was brought to SriRangam and Sri Krishna worshiped the deity 'Ramapriyan' (Vishnu) currently in Melkote. Rama did not build the Rameswaram temple, as much as I heard, there is not even a line in Valmiki Ramayana stating this.

Following is the synopsis from Wikipedia regarding Rameshwaram and Nandi:

QUOTE

Rameswara means "Lord of Rama" in Sanskrit, an epithet of Shiva, the presiding deity of the Ramanathaswamy Temple.[SUP][4][/SUP] According to Hindu epic Ramayana, Rama, the seventh avatar of the god Vishnu, prayed to Shiva here to absolve any sins that he might have committed during his war against the demon-king Ravana in Sri Lanka.[SUP][5][2][/SUP] According to the Puranas (Hindu scriptures), upon the advice of sages, Rama along with his wife Sita and his brother Lakshmana, installed and worshipped the lingam (an iconic symbol of Shiva) here to expiate the sin of Brahmahatya incurred while killing of the Brahmin Ravana.[SUP][6][/SUP] To worship Shiva, Rama wanted to have the largest lingam and directed his monkey lieutenant Hanuman to bring it from Himalayas.[SUP][7][2][/SUP] Since it took longer to bring the lingam, Sita built a small lingam, which is believed to be the one in the sanctum of the temple.[SUP][7][/SUP] This account is not supported by the original Ramayana authored by Valmiki,[SUP][8][/SUP] nor in the Tamil version of the Ramayana authored by Tamil poet, Kambar (1180–1250 CE). Support for this account is found in some of the later versions of the Ramayana, such as the one penned by Tulasidas (15th century)

Some Puranas describe Nandi or Nandikeshvara as bull faced with a human body that resembles that of Shiva- in proportion and aspect, although with four hands, two hands holding the Parasu (the axe) and Mruga (the antelope) and the other two hands joined together in the Anjali(obeisance). Brahma Vaivarta Purana mentions Krishna himself to have taken the form of a bull as no one else in the Universe can bear Shiva.

UNQUOTE

ANBE SIVAM

 

[Vaagmi]

1. Freedom of observation must be respected.

2. All these years, you people have been describing Shiva devotees as Asuras, in order to popularize your religion. Since Smarthas and Shaivites were quiet, you people are indulging in mud slinging. Why didn't you stop that.

3. Who constructed Rameswaram temple? How does the name come into existence?

4. Before you advise me, you people stop the hatred shown to Shiva devotees. If not, please don't move with Smarthas, leave us alone. Being a staunch Smartha, I have every right to say this.

5. If you endorse a holy Muslim cow calls me 'Xitian' , I will treat you also in the same category of that holy cow. It is quite natural since both belong to same community.

6. You can very well point out your evidences. I welcome criticism. I will not bark.

1. Freedom is not to be used for abusing or belittling other's faith. Learn this first lesson.

2. You should talk to Valmiki, Kamban, Parasara, Vyasa and ask them to rewrite what they wrote. Try to do that if you can.

3. That temple was constructed by the masons and labourers under the employ of Sethupathy. Do you know who is Sethupathy? Ask someone who comes to your church to give Qurbani.

4. You are not a smartha nor a brahmin. You are an evangelist who is a trojan who has come here to create rift among brahmins. Better shut up and go to your church.

5. I am amused. LOL.

6. Where in Valmiki Ramayana or Kamba Ramayana is it said that Rama worshipped Siva at Rameswaram after building a temple?. Being a Evangelist you can go to one of those theological seminaries that dot Tamilnadu, read those books and come back and enlighten us on that. If you have been banned by them for your temperament please inform me here. I have friends(classmates) at the highest level in one of those seminaries. I can make a recommendation Otherwise say Jesus is not your saviour and Bible is not your scripture. Then we will accept you as a ill informed, short tempered, smartha brahmin and try to enlighten you.

 

[sangom]

Sarvam Sree Krishnaarpanamasthu.Narayaya,Narayana,Narayana.;;;
Periyavaal during his lifetime when he concludes his Anugraham to his devotees or when his talks with thedevotees, he always uttered the words 'Narayana Narayana Narayana' and never mentioned SivaSiva Siva.. This is quite enough for the present.

The word nārāyaṇa does not appear anywhere in the Rigveda except as the name of the ṛṣi who composed the famous puruṣa sūkta; and in that context it does not mean anything more than a patronymic, i.e., son of nara or Man. Even in the Manu Smriti (I - 10) the word nārāyaṇa has been used as 'son of the Original Man' which is the puruṣa of the puruṣa sūkta.

Hence, smārtas use this word not to indicate Vishnu as depicted in Vaishnavam but to denote the Parabrahman of Advaita. Since the word is the same we should not jump to conclusions, because, as one very learned member put it some time back, "Sanskrit is a language which will bite you if you go before it and will kick you if you go behind it"!!

This Parabrahman nārāyaṇa became viṣṇu of the Vaishnavas by and by. The tenth chapter of Taittiriya Aranyaka, known as "mahānārayaṇopaniṣat" was probably composed and added; both Bhattabhaskara, who wrote a commentary on the entire Krishna Yajurveda (much before Sayana did) and Sayana consider this tenth chapter of Taittiriya Aranyaka as a Khila or "supplementary" (later addition, that is). Significantly AdiShankara has not written commentary on this Upanishad.

IMHO, it is in this upanishad that we come across the vishnu gayatri which goes as "नारायणाय विद्महे वासुदेवाय धीमहि । तन्नो विष्णुः प्रचॊदयात् ॥" (nārāyaṇāya vidmahe vāsudevāya dhīmahi | tanno viṣṇuḥ pracodayāt ||). According to Bhattabhaskara, the commentator, nārāyaṇa here denotes, again, the Paramatman, vāsudeva signifies the immanent aspect of the Paramatman indwelling in all creatures, and viṣṇuḥ denotes His all-pervasiveness. Note that there is no reference to the Vaishnavite vāsudeva or viṣṇuḥ here.

When the Vaishnavite cult started gaining popularity, these terms acquired their present, and popular meanings such as the vaishnavite godheads nārāyaṇa, vāsudeva and viṣṇuḥ which then came to denote Krishna as well!!

Therefore, when a sufficiently learned person like "Periyavaal" said nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, it did not denote the Krishnaite nārāyaṇa but the advaitic Parabrahman to whom a smārta dedicates all his religious acts with the final mantra, "sarvaṃ brahmārpaṇam astu".

JFYI please.

 

[Vaagmi]

The word nārāyaṇa does not appear anywhere in the Rigveda except as the name of the ṛṣi who composed the famous puruṣa sūkta; and in that context it does not mean anything more than a patronymic, i.e., son of nara or Man. Even in the Manu Smriti (I - 10) the word nārāyaṇa has been used as 'son of the Original Man' which is the puruṣa of the puruṣa sūkta.

Hence, smārtas use this word not to indicate Vishnu as depicted in Vaishnavam but to denote the Parabrahman of Advaita. Since the word is the same we should not jump to conclusions, because, as one very learned member put it some time back, "Sanskrit is a language which will bite you if you go before it and will kick you if you go behind it"!!

This Parabrahman nārāyaṇa became viṣṇu of the Vaishnavas by and by. The tenth chapter of Taittiriya Aranyaka, known as "mahānārayaṇopaniṣat" was probably composed and added; both Bhattabhaskara, who wrote a commentary on the entire Krishna Yajurveda (much before Sayana did) and Sayana consider this tenth chapter of Taittiriya Aranyaka as a Khila or "supplementary" (later addition, that is). Significantly AdiShankara has not written commentary on this Upanishad.

IMHO, it is in this upanishad that we come across the vishnu gayatri which goes as "नारायणाय विद्महे वासुदेवाय धीमहि । तन्नो विष्णुः प्रचॊदयात् ॥" (nārāyaṇāya vidmahe vāsudevāya dhīmahi | tanno viṣṇuḥ pracodayāt ||). According to Bhattabhaskara, the commentator, nārāyaṇa here denotes, again, the Paramatman, vāsudeva signifies the immanent aspect of the Paramatman indwelling in all creatures, and viṣṇuḥ denotes His all-pervasiveness. Note that there is no reference to the Vaishnavite vāsudeva or viṣṇuḥ here.

When the Vaishnavite cult started gaining popularity, these terms acquired their present, and popular meanings such as the vaishnavite godheads nārāyaṇa, vāsudeva and viṣṇuḥ which then came to denote Krishna as well!!

Therefore, when a sufficiently learned person like "Periyavaal" said nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, it did not denote the Krishnaite nārāyaṇa but the advaitic Parabrahman to whom a smārta dedicates all his religious acts with the final mantra, "sarvaṃ brahmārpaṇam astu".

JFYI please.

Respected Sangom sirji,

Why this laboured interpretation of parabrahmam as something different from the Narayana of vaishnavam?

You have said "Hence smartas use this word not to indicate vishnu as depicted in vaishnavam but to denote the parabrahmam of advaitam".You know very well that vishnu is considered the parabrahmam by vaishnavam. I am sure you do not mean that there is more than one parabrahmam. we are not saying smarthas are talking about the chandragupta of the gupta dynasty while vaishnavites are talking about the chandragupta of the Maurya dynasty. LOL. We speak about the ultimate parabrahmam. Vaishnavam calls him Narayana, Vishnu, Krishna etc., and also by the name parabrahmam.

And you have also said "According to Bhattabhaskara, the commentator, nārāyaṇa here denotes, again, the Paramatman, vāsudeva signifies the immanent aspect of the Paramatman indwelling in all creatures, and viṣṇuḥ denotes His all-pervasiveness. Note that there is no reference to the Vaishnavite vāsudeva or viṣṇuḥ here."
What is this vaishnavite visnuh as different from the bhattabhaskara's visnuh? And what is the difference among the two Vasudevas?

If I conclude that your understanding of vaishnavam is absolutely poor it won't be far from truth.

"When the Vaishnavite cult started gaining popularity, these terms acquired their present, and popular meanings such as the vaishnavite godheads nārāyaṇa, vāsudeva and viṣṇuḥ which then came to denote Krishna as well!!"
What is the popular meaning of the vaishnavite godheads nArAyana, vAsudeva and visnuh that you appear indicate here? Will you elaborate your point?

Therefore, when a sufficiently learned person like "Periyavaal" said nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, nārāyaṇa, it did not denote the Krishnaite nārāyaṇa but the advaitic Parabrahman to whom a smārta dedicates all his religious acts with the final mantra, "sarvaṃ brahmārpaṇam astu".

It appears you are in a terrible hurry to differentiate Narayana from the parabrahmam of advaitam and in the process forgotten the popular sAtvika ThyAgam done by all smartas "kAyEnavachA......narAyanAyethi samarpayAmi". LOL.

Though Adi sankara has said "nahi nahi rakshathi............" the temptation to do a hair-splitting without even a strand of hair to start with is pretty strong for some people. LOL.