Future Initiatives

sravna said:

Dear Renuka,

Wanting to have sex is really a state of mind. It demands the highest level of mental control to exercise restraint in having sex and so be faithful to one's partner. That is the reason I want to work on it.

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Dear Sravna,

So you now one to explore sexual desire and control...whooaaa..

So Sravna...remember Adi Shankara episode? Where he had to inhabit the body of a dead king to find out about married life?

So in your case..I guess you must be Eka Patni types..so you have NO IDEA what it is like to be a polygamous types.

The only way for you to find out is to EXPERIENCE being Polygamous ..only then you understand the need for control better.

renuka said:

Dear Sravna,

So you now one to explore sexual desire and control...whooaaa..

So Sravna...remember Adi Shankara episode? Where he had to inhabit the body of a dead king to find out about married life?

So in your case..I guess you must be Eka Patni types..so you have NO IDEA what it is like to be a polygamous types.

The only way for you to find out is to EXPERIENCE being Polygamous ..only then you understand the need for control better.

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Good point Renuka. But remember a really spiritual state is a complete state. It includes all the physical experiences which are part of the whole.So one is at a vantage point to see what's right or wrong in something. I believe Adi sankara's episode is a made up one as he should have had knowledge about married life without having to find about it

Dear Sravna,

Why do you think that episode is made up?

I dont think so...Adi S was showing the world that practical experience =knowledge.

You cant learn to swim without water.


BTW Sravna...sometimes a person struggles with being attracted to another person even though he/she could be happily married.

Then he/she starts to feel guilty thinking "I am a good person..a moral upright person..why is this happening?"


Actually all these are just fleeting thoughts that traverse our mind...there is no compulsion to act on it and neither do we have to actively suppress it.

One should be able to observe and enjoy how the human mind works without being overly concerned about being right all the while.

By actively suppressing a thought it only grows deeply in our psyche and Lo Behold we have a Vasana.

A friend of mine who used to be very close to some monks from Ramakrishna Mutt in one of the states in India was totally shocked one day when a monk who was vegetarian all his life asked my friend to buy him fried fish.

My friend was totally shocked but at the same time the monk told him that he has this strong craving and had to eat fish..something he had never eaten in his life.

So my friend bought it for him and the monk ate it.

The next day the monk thanked my friend and said he does not feel like eating fish anymore..he was done with it.

Well..look at it 2 ways...sometimes an acute protein deficiency could make us crave for high protein food..so may be this monk had an acute protein deficiency...OR it was a Vasana in his mind..some past birth Vasana that needed to be transcended.

That is why it is always better to not judge any thought that fleets our mind and not suppress it too..just observe it and change its form or make a different choice.

renuka said:

That is why it is always better to not judge any thought that fleets our mind and not suppress it too..just observe it and change its form or make a different choice.

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Yes Renuka. One cannot and should not suppress thoughts but when you transcend them you do not get such thoughts. That is when you are really free from the force of thoughts. Everything is then spontaneous and you do not even pause to think whether something is right or wrong. You move away from the state of analyzing to the state of just experiencing. .

sravna said:

Yes Renuka. One cannot and should not suppress thoughts but when you transcend them you do not get such thoughts. That is when you are really free from the force of thoughts. Everything is then spontaneous and you do not even pause to think whether something is right or wrong. You move away from the state of analyzing to the state of just experiencing. .

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Dear Sravna,

I do not want my mind to be blank... I welcome thoughts..the mind is a canvas and thoughts are written in invisible ink..which only time will erase and then re-write a new story.

So whatever thoughts that come and go...I let it fleet tru..some make me smile..some make me sad..some make me worried..some make me euphoric...this is just being human.

We should learn to flirt with our thoughts..I know it sounds pretty insane but it makes sense eventually.

renuka said:

Dear Sravna,

I do not want my mind to be blank... I welcome thoughts..the mind is a canvas and thoughts are written in invisible ink..which only time will erase and then re-write a new story.

So whatever thoughts that come and go...I let it fleet tru..some make me smile..some make me sad..some make me worried..some make me euphoric...this is just being human.

We should learn to flirt with our thoughts..I know it sounds pretty insane but it makes sense eventually.

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Dear Renuka,

It is not that you do not get thoughts but you do not make the effort to think . It is as if the analysis is done and you get the holistic thinking experience only.

Nice post renuka
krish44

renuka said:

Dear Sravna,

I do not want my mind to be blank... I welcome thoughts..the mind is a canvas and thoughts are written in invisible ink..which only time will erase and then re-write a new story.

So whatever thoughts that come and go...I let it fleet tru..some make me smile..some make me sad..some make me worried..some make me euphoric...this is just being human.

We should learn to flirt with our thoughts..I know it sounds pretty insane but it makes sense eventually.

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Mind is the subject. Thoughts are the predicate. And action is the object.

Thoughts are reinforced by thoughts. Thoughts are neutralized and archived by thoughts. Thoughts are even nurtured by thoughts. But thoughts are never extinguished.

We come here with a mind. We live with the mind. When the time comes we perhaps save all the thoughts in a micro chip in a distant server in the clouds and lock it with a password.

Good thoughts, bad thoughts, gruesome thoughts, forbidden thoughts--all thoughts are enchanting.

All thoughts do not automatically go the next stage of action. Society is the dampener. We are social animals (this includes the lone wolf too!!) and so society is all powerful. LOL.

Some thoughts-this. LOL.

Vaagmi said:

All thoughts do not automatically go the next stage of action. Society is the dampener. We are social animals (this includes the lone wolf too!!) and so society is all powerful. LOL.

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Sometimes FEAR is the dampener.

Fear can even make a person seem like a saint but no one knows his/her thoughts...its just that some do not have the guts to act on their thoughts.

As we age we start to regret sometimes why we let fear dampen our thoughts..whatever the thoughts were...fear can be one's best friend and one's worst enemy.

sravna said:

Dear Renuka,

It is not that you do not get thoughts but you do not make the effort to think . It is as if the analysis is done and you get the holistic thinking experience only.

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Dear Sravna,

Its your mind that is analyzing and also experiencing.

renuka said:

Dear Sravna,

Its your mind that is analyzing and also experiencing.

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No Renuka not required to analyze. When your mind syncs to high enough energy it gets the whole. Analysis is only to present to the external world. I said that analysis is done and the whole is seen only to imply it is an equivalent of directly getting the whole

renuka said:

Sometimes FEAR is the dampener.

Fear can even make a person seem like a saint but no one knows his/her thoughts...its just that some do not have the guts to act on their thoughts.

As we age we start to regret sometimes why we let fear dampen our thoughts..whatever the thoughts were...fear can be one's best friend and one's worst enemy.

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Fear of what?

Sravnaji,

Now getting back to your initiatives seriously:

1. How to maintain virginity before marriage and be faithful in a marriage?

a) Virginity is maintained only to be lost one day. There is nothing great about it as far as the society is concerned. It is purely a private fetish. A virgin wants to lose the virginity to another virgin. Both, after losing it go about their life as usual. they are not even sure whether they lost it to a virgin at all. So virginity by itself is not anything important deserving a discussion.

b)Moving further, the next item is faithfulness in a marriage.

A partner has to be faithful in a marriage for several reasons. Some of these reasons are possessiveness, love and affection, integrity of family ties, social security, direction in life, sharing of family responsibilities, being honest etc., All these are easily understood and so do not need a detailed discussion here. For all these reasons one has to be faithful to the spouse.

Whatever be the strength of the temptations to stray, we generally avoid deviating from the path of faithfulness. Those who are swept of their feet for some reasons are a case altogether different. They would themselves admit that faithfulness is the best path.

Now this takes us to another important aspect which is common to virginity and faithfulness.

This is strictly for evolved ones among the human beings.

A man or a woman considers his/her body and mind as holy. Any violation of these two is an afront to the individual. My body is sacrosanct because it houses me and so it is me. I keep it clean and livable and respect it. Any free wheeling sexual episode basically dehumanises me. I am no animal. I am a human. So I look at losing my virginity to one who is not a similar virgin as a food for the greed of the opposite party. So I reserve my right to lose it to one whom I choose. In that first experience I look for several other things besides a sexual climax. So this is sufficient reason for me to maintain virginity with the fervor of a zealot. Hope this gives another important angle to the discussion here. Besides body my mind is also sacro sanct to me. My mind has a fundamental right to keep its secrets to itself. The famous writer Jayakanthan said " அந்தரங்கம் புனிதமானது" and wrote a short story with that title-a very interesting short story which I have discussed with my friends for days together while still a college student. Yes. The privacy of an individual is holy and it is best to leave it that way. I wont permit my privacy to be violated under any circumstance. In losing my virginity my mind and body are both involved and I would certainly avoid any violation there. Period.

For those who ask, "dont you have emotions? Losing yourself to your emotions is a pleasurable experience and you will be missing that", my answer is that "even as my emotions gallop, I would like them to be controlled with reins rather than with blinkers". So I said in the beginning that this is for evolved beings. LOL.

The post loss-of-virginity faithfullness to a spouse also falls in the same category. My sharing of my body's and mind's privacy is reserved for that one individual who is special to me. If I keep sharing it with several others it will be a gross violation of my basic personal being. For this reason alone I would remain faithfull.

These are some of my thoughts on your initiative 1.

In a gist: I won't lose my virginity in a rape incident. I will remain faithful to my partner. Because I respect myself.

Vaagmi said:

Fear of what?

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Sometimes we restrain ourselves becos we fear what others would think..how we will be viewed..fear loss of credibility...that way I admire criminals...they do not fear anything!LOL

Vaagmi said:

Sravnaji,

If I keep sharing it with several others it will be a gross violation of my basic personal being. For this reason alone I would remain faithfull.

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Now for highest evolved humans:


Ayam nijah paroveti ganana laghuchetasam,
udaracharitanantu vasudhaiva kutumbakam.

The most evolved..shares everything with the whole world!

He/She is faithful to all.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I find it disturbing that people these days are more attracted to superficial things. Style more than substance is what gets people's attention. When a person decides that one's virginity is not that important it shows how the mental attitude is taking shape. If the threshold of virginity is crossed there is no greater threshold to be crossed with regards to temptation. Mind is ready to go astray by the wrong influences.

I believe there should be a number of moral checks and balances at least till people can get into evolved thinking. But those who impose such morality themselves need to be wise and know exactly what they are doing. They should know how much restraint to exercise , when to exercise the restraint and how to inculcate independent thinking in youth . The last is what ultimately important

It is a complex problem but many a times I think a complex problem has a simple solution. We need to figure out that solution.

sravna said:

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I find it disturbing that people these days are more attracted to superficial things. Style more than substance is what gets people's attention. When a person decides that one's virginity is not that important it shows how the mental attitude is taking shape. If the threshold of virginity is crossed there is no greater threshold to be crossed with regards to temptation. Mind is ready to go astray by the wrong influences.
.

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Dear Sravna,

No one kills self or kills another by having sex or losing virginity.

To be frank I do not think anything is lost when anyone has sex even for the very 1st time. None of us underwent any major change after any sexual episode!LOL We were and still are the same person.

Its just like how a child drinks milk for the very first time....its just an experience. Do we call it superficial if we eat for the 1st time?

Likewise one has decided to use their body for the first time to engage in sexual act..what is so superficial of that?

Sex need not have even an iota of emotions...it can be a purely physical act like how we drink water when we are thirsty.

Do we get all emotional when we drink a glass of water when we are thirsty? Nope..its just quenching the thirst.

So the human body has sex as it function too and sexual act quenches the Trishna for a physical union.

There is no acute need to even be in love with anyone to have sex.

I do not feel you should feel disturbed by how people want to lead their lives.

Everyone can use their body the way they want as long no self harm or harming others.

P.S..men like to imagine that a female needs emotions to have sex...boy are they wrong!
A female can be a smooth criminal!LOL

Dear Renuka,

You are talking about the act alone but I am talking about the mindset that makes one feel losing virginity is not wrong. The act cannot be seen in isolation as mind-body is the integrated reality.

sravna said:

Dear Renuka,

You are talking about the act alone but I am talking about the mindset that makes one feel losing virginity is not wrong. The act cannot be seen in isolation as mind-body is the integrated reality.

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dear Sravna,

A human is like a car...it needs maintenance.

Simple as that...when car breaks down..we repair it.beyond repair..car cant be used.

Same with human body..after sometime we die.

Every act need input from mind..even eating needs signals from mind and brain.

The problem is you are unable to look at the sex act as a function of the human body and your are conferring virtue to chastity and virginity.

Try to go beyond bodily attachment.

I am surprised you talk about spirituality yet attach so much importance to virginity.

Am I the body? No.

Am I the mind? No.

The body does it functions and so does the mind but in reality both do not define me.

Its that simple...dont complicate stuff.

Virginity is a cultural definition...it does not define anything..technically Virginity does not even exist..so how can we lose something that is not even an organ with no known function..its not even a vestigial organ.

Its not as if we are losing and hand or leg!

renuka said:

Virginity is a cultural definition...it does not define anything..technically Virginity does not even exist..so how can we lose something that is not even an organ with no known function..its not even a vestigial organ.

Its not as if we are losing and hand or leg!

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Exactly Renuka. It does not have physical existence. It is a concept and a thing of the mind. You are not losing any part of your body but even more seriously removing from your mind, a fundamental concept necessary for discipline in life.

So I can get into the bedroom of my neighbour this night? LOL. Yes. Vasudaiva kutumbakam--quoted out of context.

Vaagmi said:

So I can get into the bedroom of my neighbour this night? LOL. Yes. Vasudaiva kutumbakam--quoted out of context.

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The subconscious mind is not governed by society and culture!LOL

sravna said:

Exactly Renuka. It does not have physical existence. It is a concept and a thing of the mind. You are not losing any part of your body but even more seriously removing from your mind, a fundamental concept necessary for discipline in life.

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No Sravna...its not exactly...you and I are not on the same page!LOL

You are enforcing rules on yourself by equating losing a non existent state with the loss of discipline in life.

For me I am willing to accept anything in life as experiences that shape my existence.

I could have been anything in my previous lives...same with you Sravna..for all I know anyone of us could have been a serial killer or even a sex worker.

Human existence is shaped by everything that we go tru in every life.

I do not feel I need to view anything as losing a fundamental concept necessary for discipline in life...life is like flow of water...if we stop it by man built dams in our mind...we change the whole environment and when the pressure builds up we burst into extremism..its not healthy in my opinion.

We should just learn to exists...usually self is the best teacher in life..we eventually know our strength and weaknesses and we decide for ourselves ....even if it means falling down in any scale..I would not like to judge myself or anyone for that matter.

If someone needs help we can help them or even if we need help we can try reaching out to those we can trust.

But at the end of the day we can not make another person a clone of our mind...we need to respect another's choice of life.

I treat many sex workers too in my line of job.I never judge their profession..all I say is to use protection.

Folks,

I am getting good responses for my initiatives. I will be tied up with that and will not be able to spend a lot of time on the forum. Anyone willing to be part of the initiatives contact me at

[email protected]