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yagnjopaveetham for women

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Dear all,

Recently I gone through an article by Jakki Vasudev in which he wrote in vedic period women's were used to wear yagnjopaveetham and do santhyavanthanams's, etc.

He gave an example of Yagnavalkiar's wife Mythreyi, who married him after winning in a debate. I enquired about this with a sasthri and my uncle who were the followers of sukla yajurvedam. They confirmed this and said seetha also did santhyavanthanam while she was in ashokavanam.

I asked them if it is a vedic tradition why we are not allowing our girls to do that? But I didn't get right answer.

I asked the sasthri if it is dharma, i want to do it to my daughters. He told me I'm ready to that as I'm accepting, but after that nobody will treat me as vathiar for their functions. I have to survive.

Why I'm writing this so many seniors and knowledgable persons in this forum can give a solution and take steps to bringout the right dharmas to everyone to follow.

Our family is ready to do the upanayanam for my daughters if it is the right dharma. Please clarify.

My personal opions if the rights given back to our mathas the dharma will be protected.

sarvam krishnarpanam

Sathyan
 
Dear all,

Recently I gone through an article by Jakki Vasudev in which he wrote in vedic period women's were used to wear yagnjopaveetham and do santhyavanthanams's, etc.

He gave an example of Yagnavalkiar's wife Mythreyi, who married him after winning in a debate. I enquired about this with a sasthri and my uncle who were the followers of sukla yajurvedam. They confirmed this and said seetha also did santhyavanthanam while she was in ashokavanam.

I asked them if it is a vedic tradition why we are not allowing our girls to do that? But I didn't get right answer.

I asked the sasthri if it is dharma, i want to do it to my daughters. He told me I'm ready to that as I'm accepting, but after that nobody will treat me as vathiar for their functions. I have to survive.

Why I'm writing this so many seniors and knowledgable persons in this forum can give a solution and take steps to bringout the right dharmas to everyone to follow.

Our family is ready to do the upanayanam for my daughters if it is the right dharma. Please clarify.

My personal opions if the rights given back to our mathas the dharma will be protected.

sarvam krishnarpanam

Sathyan

sathya,

you have my support for it. i think, poonul is a coming of age ceremony for all youngsters and an occassion of celebrations for their parents.

however it need necessarily be confined to girls. all hindu boys and girls should have that opportunity.

nowadays, all the brahmin boys i know in my family, have big poonul functions, because their parents are rich and this is an occassion to show off and buy expensive saris for their relatives. nary a boy, knows his abhivaadeye and the poonul rests on his shoulders barely 24 hours.

given the case, let us give a chance to girls and other castes.
 
Dear all,

Recently I gone through an article by Jakki Vasudev in which he wrote in vedic period women's were used to wear yagnjopaveetham and do santhyavanthanams's, etc.

He gave an example of Yagnavalkiar's wife Mythreyi, who married him after winning in a debate. I enquired about this with a sasthri and my uncle who were the followers of sukla yajurvedam. They confirmed this and said seetha also did santhyavanthanam while she was in ashokavanam.

I asked them if it is a vedic tradition why we are not allowing our girls to do that? But I didn't get right answer.

I asked the sasthri if it is dharma, i want to do it to my daughters. He told me I'm ready to that as I'm accepting, but after that nobody will treat me as vathiar for their functions. I have to survive.

Why I'm writing this so many seniors and knowledgable persons in this forum can give a solution and take steps to bringout the right dharmas to everyone to follow.

Our family is ready to do the upanayanam for my daughters if it is the right dharma. Please clarify.

My personal opions if the rights given back to our mathas the dharma will be protected.

sarvam krishnarpanam

Sathyan

sathya,

you have my support for it. i think, poonul is a coming of age ceremony for all youngsters and an occassion of celebrations for their parents.

however it need necessarily be confined to girls. all hindu boys and girls should have that opportunity.

nowadays, all the brahmin boys i know in my family, have big poonul functions, because their parents are rich and this is an occassion to show off and buy expensive saris for their relatives. nary a boy, knows his abhivaadeye and the poonul rests on his shoulders barely 24 hours.

given the case, let us give a chance to girls and other castes. optionally ofcourse! given the increased numbers of candidates, in sum total, there may end up more sincere folks practsing yagnopaveedam than our regular annual avani avittam பேர்வழிஸ் who do a few gayatri, and retire to gossip and consume idlivadaicoffee.
 
In the Book"The Position of women in Hindu Civilasation" by sri.Anantha Sadhasiv Altekar,published by Motilal Bbanarasidas,(well known Hindu Religious/Aurvedic book publisher)Varanasi,1959-reprint 1987, has mentioned:- In the work "Sarvaanukramaamika" it is found hat Rg vedam was "Revealed" to atleast 20 women--(Somayaji)=>I am NOT enlisting all of them--a few of them are--sarva sri.Vagambruni(Ambrunar's daughter)--she is a Brahmavaadhini(Virgin Asctics--Experts in Theology and Philosophy) and NOT Saadhyavadhu(married woman)--Lopamudra-Visvavaara--Sinataa--Nivavari-Ghosha--Rg vedha Mantras revealed to them--I-179--V-28-vii-9--ix-11-20--

It is also said:-" PoorvaMeemaamsa is more abtruse than Mathematics--a VERY LARGE number of Ladies were adept in Poorva Meemaamsa--this is given in the work "Kaasakritsanaas"--again I(somayaji) give a few of them only--those who are intested can read the Book.---Sarva sri.Sulabha Maitreyi(wife of sri.Yaagnavalkya)--Vaasava Praathiteyi---Gaargi Vaachakanavi--In Aithreya Samhita also some names ar given.In another work #2 Brahmavaadhinis and 10 sadhyavadhus who were adeptin vedham is Given.It is also mentioned all the women mentioned above were "Initiated"(Brahma Upadesam) and were wearing "Yagjnopaveetham"(to be continued)
 
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Vak Amabirini is the Vedic Rishi who is the author of Sri Suktam. It is known as Vak Suktham also. Lopamudra is the Rishi who gave the Kadi Vidya mantra of SriVidya. Gargi was the one who declared Yagnavalkya to be the winner of the grand debate about the nature of Brahman.

But that is all thousands of years back. The Vedas were evolved over a period of thousands of years. The concepts changed. The concept of Brahman which is found in the later Vedic period was unknown during the early Vedic period. Even the Gods changed.

Society also changed during this period. We are talking about thousands of years. Just compare the Tamil Brahmin of 1910 with the Brahmin of 2010. If so many changes have taken place in a mere hundred years, how may changes would have taken place in a period of thousands of years.

What you are trying to revive is a tradition which has been given up thousands of years back. The Dharmasasthras are against this. They do not even give the right of offering prayer to God to women.
 
bhagavan sathya sai baba has openly allowed women and all to have gayathri manthram chanted.so,no sastrigal need be worried about income or patronage.in fact,his biz shud flourish,as the target audience exanded exponentially on account of the advice of baba :)
 
bhagavan sathya sai baba has openly allowed women and all to have gayathri manthram chanted.so,no sastrigal need be worried about income or patronage.in fact,his biz shud flourish,as the target audience exanded exponentially on account of the advice of baba :)

Sathya Sai Baba does not even claim to be a Hindu.

Arya Samaj which is based on pure Vedic traditions allows everyone to chant the Gayatri Mantra. Arya Samaj is responsible for the Gayatri Mantra becoming popular all over India. This was done long before the birth of any Babas.

The Deeksha of Gayatri mantra is only a part of the Yagnjopaveetham. In fact the Gayatri Mantra is attributed to Rishi Viswamitra who is not a Vedic Rishi. Yagnjopaveetham predates the Gayatri Mantra.
 
North Indian men and women recite Gayatri Mantra loudly.

Arya Samaj teaches vedhas to all without any discrimination of gender, caste etc.

Infact Arya Samaj is the first organisation to convert other religious people to Hinduism. Now ISKON and some other organisations are also doing it.
 
Dear sir,

Thanks a lot for your support.

I welcome your additional information that the poonul to all hindus. I have seen the patayachi people in north tamilnadu wearing poonul & sigai in my childhood. Nowadays they are not wearing poonul.

Lot of people are against the samprathyas which are not in sasthras and to adopt sasthras as in vedic period. But nobody trying to bell the cat.

Really we convinced our family to give important for vaitheega vishayam and not for unwanted samprathayam(for example there is no need of so many homams and great function at the time of Grahapravesham, only the owpasanam has to be taken to the graham and the family has to cook there, In sashtiyaptha poorthi as it is a birthday no need of mankalyathranam and other rituals) expenses and we tried our level best to follow it.

I believe if the real and the needed dhrmas come out and everyone follow it definitely there will be a change in the society which will lead to a free of violance, etc world.

Sarvam krishnarpanam

sathya,

you have my support for it. i think, poonul is a coming of age ceremony for all youngsters and an occassion of celebrations for their parents.

however it need necessarily be confined to girls. all hindu boys and girls should have that opportunity.

nowadays, all the brahmin boys i know in my family, have big poonul functions, because their parents are rich and this is an occassion to show off and buy expensive saris for their relatives. nary a boy, knows his abhivaadeye and the poonul rests on his shoulders barely 24 hours.

given the case, let us give a chance to girls and other castes. optionally ofcourse! given the increased numbers of candidates, in sum total, there may end up more sincere folks practsing yagnopaveedam than our regular annual avani avittam பேர்வழிஸ் who do a few gayatri, and retire to gossip and consume idlivadaicoffee.
 
In the Book"The Position of women in Hindu Civilasation" by sri.Anantha Sadhasiv Altekar,published by Motilal Bbanarasidas,(well known Hindu Religious/Aurvedic book publisher)Varanasi,1959-reprint 1987, has mentioned:- In the work "Sarvaanukramaamika" it is found hat Rg vedam was "Revealed" to atleast 20 women--(Somayaji)=>I am NOT enlisting all of them--a few of them are--sarva sri.Vagambruni(Ambrunar's daughter)--she is a Brahmavaadhini(Virgin Asctics--Experts in Theology and Philosophy) and NOT Saadhyavadhu(married woman)--Lopamudra-Visvavaara--Sinataa--Nivavari-Ghosha--Rg vedha Mantras revealed to them--I-179--V-28-vii-9--ix-11-20--

It is also said:-" PoorvaMeemaamsa is more abtruse than Mathematics--a VERY LARGE number of Ladies were adept in Poorva Meemaamsa--this is given in the work "Kaasakritsanaas"--again I(somayaji) give a few of them only--those who are intested can read the Book.---Sarva sri.Sulabha Maitreyi(wife of sri.Yaagnavalkya)--Vaasava Praathiteyi---Gaargi Vaachakanavi--In Aithreya Samhita also some names ar given.In another work #2 Brahmavaadhinis and 10 sadhyavadhus who were adeptin vedham is Given.It is also mentioned all the women mentioned above were "Initiated"(Brahma Upadesam) and were wearing "Yagjnopaveetham"(to be continued)

Sir,

Its Interesting and looking to know more

sarvam krishnarpanam
 
Vak Amabirini is the Vedic Rishi who is the author of Sri Suktam. It is known as Vak Suktham also. Lopamudra is the Rishi who gave the Kadi Vidya mantra of SriVidya. Gargi was the one who declared Yagnavalkya to be the winner of the grand debate about the nature of Brahman.

But that is all thousands of years back. The Vedas were evolved over a period of thousands of years. The concepts changed. The concept of Brahman which is found in the later Vedic period was unknown during the early Vedic period. Even the Gods changed.

Society also changed during this period. We are talking about thousands of years. Just compare the Tamil Brahmin of 1910 with the Brahmin of 2010. If so many changes have taken place in a mere hundred years, how may changes would have taken place in a period of thousands of years.

What you are trying to revive is a tradition which has been given up thousands of years back. The Dharmasasthras are against this. They do not even give the right of offering prayer to God to women.

Sir,

I do not know which we have to follow that's why I made this question.

Vedic period allows women to do everything - am I right
Dharmasasthras against this - Can you please give in details which dharma sasthra when it made it, why it changed this tradition. Please help me to know

Why dharmasasthra is against vedic tradition?

Why I'm trying to revive it In that period I hope people lived a best life.

I'm not saying we are not living better but trying for the best to build a dharmic society.

And its our duty to bring back the right to women. I believe they only can hold and keep for long generations the dharma.

sarvam krishnarpanam
 
ss,
Sathya Sai Baba does not even claim to be a Hindu.

bhagavan sathya sai baba was born to hindu parents.that makes him a hindu technically.


I have come to light the lamp of Love in your hearts, to see that it shines day by day with added luster. I have not come on behalf of any exclusive religion. I have not come on a mission of publicity for a sect or creed or cause, nor have I come to collect followers for a doctrine. I have no plan to attract disciples or devotees into my fold or any fold. I have come to tell you of this unitary faith, this spiritual principle, this path of Love, this virtue of Love, this duty of Love, this obligation of Love. 4 July 1968, Baba


Arya Samaj which is based on pure Vedic traditions allows everyone to chant the Gayatri Mantra. Arya Samaj is responsible for the Gayatri Mantra becoming popular all over India. This was done long before the birth of any Babas.

in 1836,shirdi sai baba,already gave freedom to women.satcharitha is evidence.

The Deeksha of Gayatri mantra is only a part of the Yagnjopaveetham. In fact the Gayatri Mantra is attributed to Rishi Viswamitra who is not a Vedic Rishi. Yagnjopaveetham predates the Gayatri Mantra.
that is truth.
true.vedas can be chanted by women.
 
S.Sharma(nn) -(quote) Vak Amabirini is the Vedic Rishi who is the author of Sri Suktam. It is known as Vak Suktham also. Lopamudra is the Rishi who gave the Kadi Vidya mantra of SriVidya. Gargi was the one who declared Yagnavalkya to be the winner of the grand debate about the nature of Brahman.(en-quote)

Somayaji:-Vaagambrni's Mantras in Rg Vedam are recited without any change even today(29 th June 2010) by Rg Vedhi MALES--What has changed?


Sharma:-(quote) But that is all thousands of years back. The Vedas were evolved over a period of thousands of years.


Somayaji:-There is NO evolution or devolution in Vedham--Vedham is Eternal-dismutable-"Revelation" of Vedham to Arshas/Arshinis has happenened over a period of time-it is the stand taken by Scholars all over the world--that is in other forums

S.Sharmann:-(quote)The concept of Brahman which is found in the later Vedic period was unknown during the early Vedic period.

Somayaji:-Whatever information available in Vedham and Upanishads about Brahman(called Mahaa Vaakyaas) -earlier- or later has NOT changed--but are elaborated in the work of sri.Vedha Vyaasa's Brahma Sutram(564 aphorisms according to Acharya sri.SANKARA),and the GLOSS (Bhaashyam)written by about 13 Acharyas starting from sri.Acharya SANKARA,which are collectively known as Vedhaantham.Brahma Sutram itself talks -"Saastra Yonivat"=the concept of Brahman has emerged(Yonivat) from Vedham(Saastram)=>here the Sabdham "Saastram" is interpreted as VEDHAM in the Gloss(one may read Chief Justice of Supreme Court of India sri.Gajendra Gaadkar's book on this subject)--Vedhantham is "Aaptha Vaakyam" or Smrithi where as Vedham is Sruthi(God "Revealed").SRUTHI is un-changeable.Nothing can be added,delted,altered,abridged--dismutable--(One can read sri.Vishaal Agarwal's excellent-indisputable arguments --what are the "safe-guard" mechanisms inherent in the Paatam,Kramam,Ghanam etc) itself-because the pet/oft-repeated argument of the protagonists of Predominant Western religion in Foreign Religious Fora is "Vedham is NOT dismutable"- So there is NO change in the concept of Brahman in the Vedham -during earlier or later periods or till date.

(quote)"Even the Gods changed."---Somayaji;-this is very Amusing--how can God change?--"Vipra Bahudhaa Vadhanthi"==new names of ONE God(Ekam Sat) could have been added in the course of time

(Quote)Society also changed during this period. We are talking about thousands of years. Just compare the Tamil Brahmin of 1910 with the Brahmin of 2010. If so many changes have taken place in a mere hundred years, how may changes would have taken place in a period of thousands of years.(en-quote)

the only thing which is changed is Dharma Saastras.Ladies had right for ancestral properties--by 1956 and 1972 amendments--Ladies have EQUAL rights in ancestral property(Hindu Avibhaktha/Meethaakshara Kutumbams)--even Kerala's Marumakkathaayam has changes by these amendments.Varna Sangraham is becoming the "RULE"--NOt an exception.

(quote) "What you are trying to revive"---Somayaji:- I am NOT trying to revive anything--I have just quoted from a book--sri.Altekar is a great Scholar--like many in Bhandarkar Institute,Punay.


S.Sharma:-(quote) The Dharmasasthras are against this. They do no the right of offering prayer to God to women.

Somayaji:-this is a retro-grade step introduced by Dharma Saastrms.Only the followers of Semetic religions are lamenting that their religious texts state that a woman "Shall NOT open her mouth in a place of worship".In Hindu places of Religion Women should open their mouths

Somayaji:- even during Acharya sri.SANKARA'S period,(which is NOT Vedhic period)sri.Ubhaya Bharathi was accepted as a judge to adjudicate the discussion between Acarya sri.SANKARA and sri Mandan Mishra.Both Intellectual Giants would NOT have agreed, if sri.Bharathi was NOT adept in Vedham ,Saastram,Puraanam,Agamam,Kalpam etc.
 
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Sir,

I do not know which we have to follow that's why I made this question.

Vedic period allows women to do everything - am I right
Dharmasasthras against this - Can you please give in details which dharma sasthra when it made it, why it changed this tradition. Please help me to know

Why dharmasasthra is against vedic tradition?

Why I'm trying to revive it In that period I hope people lived a best life.

I'm not saying we are not living better but trying for the best to build a dharmic society.

And its our duty to bring back the right to women. I believe they only can hold and keep for long generations the dharma.

sarvam krishnarpanam

First of all all my replies are to your queries only.

Dharmasasthra are books which lay down the code of conduct. These were written between 700 A.D and 1947 A.D. They were more often a codification of the then prevalent rules. Indian society had changed in the thousands of years.

Dharmasasthras did not change the society. The Dhramsasthras reflected the change in the society. Change in our attitude towards women.

I am going by the Samasheptha Dharmasasthra by Manjakudi Venkatrama Sasthry which is the one referred by our Purohits. That has excerpts from different Dharmasasthra relatinf to the conduct of a Brahmin.

I had said earlier about the Vedic period.

1. The dead bodies were buried during the early Vedic period.

2. They were not Vegetarians. They took Sacrificial meat. Animal sacrifices were common in all Vedic Yagnas.

2. There were no Temples or temple worship.

3. Gods like Krishna, Rama and Lalitha were not known. Most of the Gods/Goddesses we worship today are Pauranic in origin.

We do not have a clear idea of how our ancestors lived during the Vedic period. In fact in the absence of any real history we can only guess about how they lived during these periods.

Even about the Gayatri mantra there are many theories. It is a Mantra for worship of the Sun. Later on Gayatri mantras for different Gods/Goddessses were evolved based on the original Gayatri mantra.

Then someone conceived a Goddess called Gayatri. ISKCON people claim that the Gayatri Mantra is for Krishna. Of course many claim that it is addressed to the Supreme Brahman.

I have written these points only to show how difficult or well nigh impossible it is for us to go back to any period in the past because we do not have the required information.

I am in total agreement with you that Women should be allowed to undergo Yagnopaveedham and recite the Vedas. A small start has been made in Pune

YouTube - Pune embraces female Hindu priests

The women priests of Pune, India ? they earn and they learn. A wide angle view of India
 
with increasing empowerment of women, it is only a matter of time, i think, before women demand to be made priests too.

when this happened in the christian churches, the catholics still refuse. but the protestants, after much discussion, agreed, and they have women bishops, priests etc.

for us, it should be easier. we can look back at the vedas, and agree that it was ok then, and will be ok now.
 
Dear Sir,

Thanks for the information.
First of all all my replies are to your queries only.

Dharmasasthra are books which lay down the code of conduct. These were written between 700 A.D and 1947 A.D. They were more often a codification of the then prevalent rules. Indian society had changed in the thousands of years.

Dharmasasthras did not change the society. The Dhramsasthras reflected the change in the society. Change in our attitude towards women.
YES I UNDERSTAND THE DHARMASATHRAS REFLECT THE SOCIETY BUT I'M AFRAID IT SHOULD NOT BE INFLUENCED BY SOME PEOPLE.

I am going by the Samasheptha Dharmasasthra by Manjakudi Venkatrama Sasthry which is the one referred by our Purohits. That has excerpts from different Dharmasasthra relatinf to the conduct of a Brahmin.

I had said earlier about the Vedic period.

1. The dead bodies were buried during the early Vedic period.
OK MOSTLY WE ARE DOING THE SAME NOW.
2. They were not Vegetarians. They took Sacrificial meat. Animal sacrifices were common in all Vedic Yagnas.
I HEARD IT BUT THE CAHNGE IS GOOD AND WELCOMED BY ALL I HOPE. SINCE IT RELATED TO HEALTH AND MIND. BUT WHEN THE FOOD IS SACRIFICIAL ONE I HOPE ITS GOOD.
2. There were no Temples or temple worship.
YES I HEARD IT AND THE TEMPLES ARE ONLY TO HELP THE PEOPLE TO MEDITATE AND SO ON. THEY ARE WELL USED FOR THE SOCIETY TO SERVE AS SCHOOL, BANK, ETC
3. Gods like Krishna, Rama and Lalitha were not known. Most of the Gods/Goddesses we worship today are Pauranic in origin.
THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION AS I'M NOT WELL AWARE OF VEDAS AND PURANAS.
We do not have a clear idea of how our ancestors lived during the Vedic period. In fact in the absence of any real history we can only guess about how they lived during these periods.

Even about the Gayatri mantra there are many theories. It is a Mantra for worship of the Sun. Later on Gayatri mantras for different Gods/Goddessses were evolved based on the original Gayatri mantra.

Then someone conceived a Goddess called Gayatri. ISKCON people claim that the Gayatri Mantra is for Krishna. Of course many claim that it is addressed to the Supreme Brahman.

I have written these points only to show how difficult or well nigh impossible it is for us to go back to any period in the past because we do not have the required information.
THAT'S WHY I REQUEST SOME SCHOLLARS TO DO SOME RESEARCH, GATHER INFORMATIONS AND RELEASE A BOOK IT IS WELL FOR THE PEOPLE LIKE ME TO LEARN AND FOLLOW. MAYBE LOT OF BOOKS BUT THIS SHOULD COME FROM A GROUP OF MEMBERS FROM ALL SECTS.

I am in total agreement with you that Women should be allowed to undergo Yagnopaveedham and recite the Vedas. A small start has been made in Pune
OK, THANKS FOR THE NEWS.
YouTube - Pune embraces female Hindu priests

The women priests of Pune, India ? they earn and they learn. A wide angle view of India


SARVAM KRISHNARPANAM
 
Present day ladies doesn't want to wear `thaali'. Why they are particular about wearing a `poonal'

I am unable to understand

All the best
 
At Vaishavi temple, Thirumullaivayil, Chennai we permit ladies to perform poojas directly to Devi. We don't discriminate people based on religon, caste, race, gender etc.

Sri Vaishnavi Shrine, Aavadi (Chennai)
DEAR SIR,

CASTE AND CREED DIFFERENCEA ARE NOT FROM BRAHMINS AND ITS FROM OTHER CASTE HINDUS. I'M SEEING NOWADAYS HARIJANS ARE VISITING FREQUENTLY TO THE TEMPLES NO PRIESTS GIVE PARTIALITY TO THEM. BUT THE CASTE HINDUS REACT ON THIS.

DURING A DISCUSSION ONE QUOTED AS PER VEDAS THE SUDHRAS ARE THE FEET OF GOD. IN OUR RELIGION WE GIVE MOST IMPORTANCE TO THE GOD'S FEET ONLY THAN ANYTHING. THEN WHY SHOULD HATE THE REPRESENTATIVES.

SARVAM KRISHNARPANAM
 
(Some ideas in this post,i already tried to post in the previous post.I thought that it was NOT properly"Saved"--hence som repetitions,which I regeret)


Vedham (Revealed =Sruthi) Never changed. Vedic period is different.

Dharma Saastram(Smrithi=Man made) is conspicous by its frequent changes only.Many of the Dharma Saastrams are very barbarious and filthy and worth to be proud of.

The treatment meted out to a young Brahmin Widow (tonsuring the head,breaking her bangles etc) on the 10 th day of her husband's death (Dasaasthu) on the basis of Dharma Saastrams is very horrible, Scarry and barbarious. Mahathma sri.Phule (at the threat to his life) stopped this practice in Maharashtra,followed in other Southern States.

On the basis of Dharma Saastram the enacted Hindu Succession Act(Avibhaktha/Mithaakshara Kutumbams) during British Rule denied TOTALLY any share for the Brahmin widow from the Interstate of her diceased husband(ancesterol properties),who dies without any biological or adopted children.In my own village-Street(Agrahaaram),I have seen three Brahmin widows pathetically BEGGING for a few measures of Paddy/Rice (the produce of her late husband's property)from her family's "10 dayGjnaayaathis",in the first week of every month.Their pedicament was releived after the 1956 and 1972 amendments to Hindu Successin Act.(Kerala's "Marumakka Thaayam was also nullified by these amendments) All the 3 ladies were very relieved and started living the rest of their life with their brothers families-getting ALL the Paddy of their lte husbands' ancestral properties.

Dharma Saastram:-Manu's notorious quote "Pouring the molten Lead(Pb) into the ears of etc"--Now at every street corner Vedha Mantrams are broadcast through Loud-speakers,thanks to modern Electronic media--Now people can NOT say "Brahmins did NOT teach them Mantras"--basically including Brahmins majority are NOT interested to learn Religious Texts-leave alone Mantrams even Tamil Prayers!!!

Dharma Saastram:-my colleague sri.Ayodhya Pandey told me that Dharma Saastram prohibits anybody telling "Panca Dasaakshari" openly and that the Saastram has described such a person with a very bad "Ketta Vaarthai"--Acharya sri.SANKARA also has talked about these 15 Bheeja Aksharams in a secret language only in Soundarya Lahiri verse starting with "Sivas-Sakthihi-Kaamaha"--- now a Chennai safron clad "Dongu" Samiyar,solicits that he is willing to give "Upadesam"(???!!!)of even " Sowbhaagya Panca Dasaakshari" to any Tom,Dick and Harry for a "Cost".
 
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Somajayi sir,

Thanks for the info on the women composers. I came across another such female, Vishwavara, in the publication "Rigveda Sanhita" (by Trubner & Co, 1857). The book also makes mention about the falsification of the Atreya line thru fabricated geneology of Pratishatra, Pratiratha..

Vak Amabirini is the Vedic Rishi who is the author of Sri Suktam. It is known as Vak Suktham also. Lopamudra is the Rishi who gave the Kadi Vidya mantra of SriVidya. Gargi was the one who declared Yagnavalkya to be the winner of the grand debate about the nature of Brahman.

But that is all thousands of years back. The Vedas were evolved over a period of thousands of years. The concepts changed. The concept of Brahman which is found in the later Vedic period was unknown during the early Vedic period. Even the Gods changed.

Society also changed during this period. We are talking about thousands of years. Just compare the Tamil Brahmin of 1910 with the Brahmin of 2010. If so many changes have taken place in a mere hundred years, how may changes would have taken place in a period of thousands of years.

What you are trying to revive is a tradition which has been given up thousands of years back. The Dharmasasthras are against this. They do not even give the right of offering prayer to God to women.

Were there any particular reasons why the dharmashastras prohibitted something that was common in the vedic period to women?

Sathya Sai Baba does not even claim to be a Hindu.

Arya Samaj which is based on pure Vedic traditions allows everyone to chant the Gayatri Mantra. Arya Samaj is responsible for the Gayatri Mantra becoming popular all over India. This was done long before the birth of any Babas.

The Deeksha of Gayatri mantra is only a part of the Yagnjopaveetham. In fact the Gayatri Mantra is attributed to Rishi Viswamitra who is not a Vedic Rishi. Yagnjopaveetham predates the Gayatri Mantra.

The Mandala 3 of the Rigveda is called the Vishwamitra Mandala. So i suppose Vishwamitra was a vedic rishi. His son Madhuchandas was the author of the sukta to Agni written in the gayatri metre in the Rik. Wearing thread as a ritual for boys coming of age has a tribal origin. Imo, the practice of yagnopaveetam originated in the eastern part of india (pending further study).

First of all all my replies are to your queries only.

Dharmasasthra are books which lay down the code of conduct. These were written between 700 A.D and 1947 A.D. They were more often a codification of the then prevalent rules. Indian society had changed in the thousands of years.

Dharmasasthras did not change the society. The Dhramsasthras reflected the change in the society. Change in our attitude towards women.

I am going by the Samasheptha Dharmasasthra by Manjakudi Venkatrama Sasthry which is the one referred by our Purohits. That has excerpts from different Dharmasasthra relatinf to the conduct of a Brahmin.

I had said earlier about the Vedic period.

1. The dead bodies were buried during the early Vedic period.

2. They were not Vegetarians. They took Sacrificial meat. Animal sacrifices were common in all Vedic Yagnas.

2. There were no Temples or temple worship.

3. Gods like Krishna, Rama and Lalitha were not known. Most of the Gods/Goddesses we worship today are Pauranic in origin.

We do not have a clear idea of how our ancestors lived during the Vedic period. In fact in the absence of any real history we can only guess about how they lived during these periods.

Even about the Gayatri mantra there are many theories. It is a Mantra for worship of the Sun. Later on Gayatri mantras for different Gods/Goddessses were evolved based on the original Gayatri mantra.

Then someone conceived a Goddess called Gayatri. ISKCON people claim that the Gayatri Mantra is for Krishna. Of course many claim that it is addressed to the Supreme Brahman.

I have written these points only to show how difficult or well nigh impossible it is for us to go back to any period in the past because we do not have the required information.

I am in total agreement with you that Women should be allowed to undergo Yagnopaveedham and recite the Vedas. A small start has been made in Pune

YouTube - Pune embraces female Hindu priests

The women priests of Pune, India ? they earn and they learn. A wide angle view of India

The deification of elements as gods predates the vedic period. It continued thru the vedic period into the puranic period. There need not be guess work. With the growing amount of research in multi-disciplinary fields it is only a matter of time for a definitive theories and common consensus on the vedic period. More field work is essential. Apart from the northeastern states, the Sri Lankan worship scene also appears to retain some of the ancient worship motifs intact.

I disagree with the point in bold. The dharmashastras may have reflected changes in the society. However, it is undeniable that men sought social control based on it; and eventually it became a tool to repress and suppress. Women, against their will, were forced to shave their hair if widowed. Child marriage was the norm. Even Jhansi Lakshmi could not get off from the clutches of prevailing customs and had to agree to a child marriage.

Someday in future, the indian government will be better off placing a ban on the law portions of the dharmashastras. We cannot have 2 laws in the land; one religious and the other constitutional. Let there be a uniform civil code which makes the law common for all indians.
 
Happyhindu"(quote)"Thanks for the info on the women composers. I came across another such female, Vishwavara, in the publication "Rigveda Sanhita" (by Trubner & Co, 1857).(en-quote)

thank you for your kind sentiments--In my enumeration from sri.Altekar's book,I have mentioned about Visvaavara.

"Arshas"-/Arshinis-they are NOT considered as "Composers".The synonym used for composers is "Vaagkeyakkara"--Arsha/Arshini is translated as those who directly "Heard"(Szravanam) from GOD--Srothas(wind pipe)=Talking by God--Srothram=ear of the Arsha/Arshini--Sravanam=listening--Christians use the word "Revealing"-Bible is revealed-so in International forum Hindus also use the word "revealed--Vvedham is "Revealed Text".Christians also use another term=>"Word"-,which they say denotes Bible only.In Sanskrit "Sabdha Brahmam" is used for Vedham--In Brahma Sutram one aphorism(Sutram) is----"Ikshather Na Sabdham"--some scholars intrpret Sabdham in this context as Vedham-normally we think "Sabdam" means "Noise"
 
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What Dharma Saasthram?--According D.S. "Superior" Brahmins should lead the life of an "YaaYaavara"=Yaha-Yaha-Vrhee-=wherever,wherever Paddy(available)--they are Not supposed to have a permanent settlement--they themselves amended it to a kind of "Less Superior Brahmins" called "Saaleena Brahmanas"--Shashti Saali=paddy getting ready in 60 days.So they can settle in a place for 60 days--In Andra a "Vaidheeki"(Vedhic profession) brahmin will Not marry a "Niyogi" (in King's Government employee)--now how much this system is "Corrupted"?--where is D.S.?--Till 1960,in my village "Meat" should NOT be sold atleast in a radius of 2 miles from "Chaturvedi mangalam(Agrahaaram").Now most of the Agrahaaram houses have been purchased by "West Asia Returned"-Meat is sold at the end of the street.The story goes:-"Neelakanta Dheekshidar asked Tirumalai Naicker (1563?) a few acres of land where he would NOT hear the sound of roosters in early hours of the day(Paalaamadai in Tirunelveli Dist)"In USA Beef and Vegetables are kept in the same "cold Storage" side by side--all the Tamil,Telugu,Kannada Dheekshidars are picking up those Dharma Saastra vegetables only and they offer to house god also those veg as "Naivedhyam.
There is NO Dharmam nor Saastram.

Vedham has NOT changed--50 years back,Westerners were "mocking" at Hindus that they worship,Air,Fire,water,Earth etc--Today American EPA(Environmental Protection Agency ) says "Pure water,Pure Air,Pure sand is like GOD"--When we say that we said the same 6000years back and say it today also--they ask is it so ?:Are you a Hindu?!!

"Namastay vaayo-Twam eva Prakthyaksham Brahmaasi"

"Aapaha punanthu Prathveem-Prathvee poothaa Punaathu Maam"

"
 
"Arshas"-/Arshinis-they are NOT considered as "Composers".The synonym used for composers is "Vaagkeyakkara"--Arsha/Arshini is translated as those who directly ........

Thankyou sir. I stand corrected. I will use the term Arsha / Arshini from now on.

Regards.
 
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Vedham has NOT changed--50 years back,Westerners were "mocking" at Hindus that they worship,Air,Fire,water,Earth etc--Today American EPA(Environmental Protection Agency ) says "Pure water,Pure Air,Pure sand is like GOD"--When we say that we said the same 6000years back and say it today also--they ask is it so ?:Are you a Hindu?!!

"Namastay vaayo-Twam eva Prakthyaksham Brahmaasi"

"Aapaha punanthu Prathveem-Prathvee poothaa Punaathu Maam"

"


Sri Somayaji,


I relish your posts, and yearn for more such enlightening ones in due course.

I especially liked one of your posts retold in the fashion reminding me

.......uvaacha (......said..) like Arjun Uvaacha, Bhagavaan Uvaacha....

Among the hollow bells (like me) sounding big,

we need full pots( Nirai kudam") like you in this forum.

Pls continue your contributions.

Greetings
 
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