Why Would God Want Us to Praise Him?

[prasad1]

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Why God would want us to praise and worship Him? Since we assume that a person who demands praise is a pompous big-head. I think there are many out there who secretly wonder about this—afraid to ask the question (lest they be thought unspiritual), but bothered all the same.

God is completely self-sufficient and doesn't need our praise and worship.

"Why praise God?" reminds me of a teacher my daughter had. at the end of the class, all children had to say "we love you, Miss Jones."

Miss Jones may have been the best teacher that ever lived and entirely worthy of praise--but the expression was contrived and mandatory, and therefore could not be sincere.

 

[prasad1]

I believe in Advaita and Brahman. I do not believe in activist god.

 

[prasad1]

The activist god is omniscient. This means that he knows everything. This notion entails the problem of free will.

If God knows everything, he also knows what we humans will do. This means that our lives are predetermined. We have no way to do something that God does not already know we will do. This means that we humans are not free to do what we decide, but that we can only decide what God knows we will decide. This entails that we do not have free will. If we do not have free will, then our entire moral system collapses. A murderer is not free to choose to abstain from the deed, because he has to do what God knew he would do. If he is unable to abstain from the deed, then how can we punish him? Furthermore, most religions require free will in order to voluntarily adhere to the faith. If a person cannot decide out of their free will to adhere to the religion or to abandon it, then how can God punish those who abandon it? After all, they did not have the choice.

We may argue that God knows everything, but not what we humans will decide. But then, he knows basically not much. Most of the things that happen to us in life are due to some decisions by ourselves or by our fellow humans.

This is why omniscience looks implausible to many atheists. Personally, however, I do not find this argument convincing. The argument says that if God knows that a human will make a certain choice, then the human cannot act otherwise. Thus, the human does not have free choice. Theists can argue that God’s knowledge does not determine a person’s will. It just correlates perfectly with the person’s will. God knows that I will make a particular choice if and only if I will indeed make this particular choice. But this does not mean that I would not have the free will to make this choice as I wish. If God knows that I will not change my mind, then, as it happens, I will not have the desire to change my mind. Thus, free will and God’s knowledge are not in contradiction in my view.

This becomes even more clear with the notion of free will that this book proposes: For this book, human behavior is just the consequence of chemical processes in the brain. We call these processes “free will” only because they are so complex that we cannot predict them. However, the chemical processes are ultimately deterministic. Thus, God could theoretically know all these chemical processes. Then God would know how we decide, but we would still have as much free will as we have now. Therefore, the notion of divine omniscience and human free will are not contradictory.

Atheist Bible: Abrahamic God

This chapter of The Atheist Bible discusses the god of the Abrahamic religions: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Spiritism, and the Bahai Faith.

suchanek.name

 

[ekaputra]

However, the chemical processes are ultimately deterministic. Thus, God could theoretically know all these chemical processes. Then God would know how we decide, but we would still have as much free will as we have now. Therefore, the notion of divine omniscience and human free will are not contradictory.

There is something very similar in "East of Eden" by Steinbeck which I read some years back. A Chinese house help is deeply interested in finding the original intent of passages in the bible which intrigue him and he goes back to the original Hebrew bible. He learns that the original Hebrew "You may overcome sin" (choice or free will) has been inaccurately translated in the English version as "You shall overcome sin" (which can be interpreted as command or differently as prediction/ divination).

I am surprised to find there is also an internet link for this:
Similar opinion in Steinbeck novel

 

[renuka]

A few days ago I had stopped at a traffic light and I saw an elderly Rohingya man begging for money.
I felt sad for him and decided to call him to my car to give him some money as he was going car to car asking for money.

I gave him money and to my surprise he uttered " Bismillah" ( In the name of God) instead of Alhamdullilah( Praise the Lord).
Muslims utter Praise the Lord when they get help from others.

I drove away wondering why he uttered In the name of God instead of Praise the Lord.

Then later part of the day it struck me that when I saw the elderly man I felt sad for him..I felt to give him some money..I felt I am the doer at every stage ...so it made sense that I should have given the money in the name of God and not think I am in charge here as I decided to donate..

My thoughts should have been
" In the name of God let me help this man and thank You God for allowing me to serve a fellow human"


Its not that God wants us to praise Him..its just that its a method of keeping our ahamkara, of I am the doer under check.

 

[a-TB]

Most human beings imagine God in his own image (except in Hindu culture where all kinds of animals images are also seen as God's image).

Human then assigns the creator/sustainer/destroyer roles to this God based on his own sense of doership.

Then he imagines that this God created the human in God's image.

Humans like praise that bloats his ego. Humans tend to be transnational. So this God human created is made to want praise so He can bestow all kinds of goodies to fulfill the human greed

Humans are afraid of snakes (especially in India). So the God has to wear snake or lie on a bed of a huge snake so that God can offer protection.

Is there any wonder why humans created God that he thinks wants to be praised?

I do not consider myself atheist or theist or agostic or with any other labels in offering these comments.

 

[KRS]

Why God would want us to praise and worship Him? Since we assume that a person who demands praise is a pompous big-head. I think there are many out there who secretly wonder about this—afraid to ask the question (lest they be thought unspiritual), but bothered all the same.

God is completely self-sufficient and doesn't need our praise and worship.

"Why praise God?" reminds me of a teacher my daughter had. at the end of the class, all children had to say "we love you, Miss Jones."

Miss Jones may have been the best teacher that ever lived and entirely worthy of praise--but the expression was contrived and mandatory, and therefore could not be sincere.

Sri prasad1 Sir,

I do not know much about the scriptures, the traditions and the deep understanding one needs to comment on the practices of other religions to comment. I only know them at the surface level, and from what I know, ‘God demanding Praise’ may not be correct in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I do not know how Islam treats this, as it is more of a prescriptive tradition.

From what I know, this is associated with praying to God, with four types of prayers identified, with one of them definitely associating with prayers ‘to be thankful and praising God’. I do not think that anywhere in their scriptures there is a ‘demand for praise’ from their God.

One has to also understand that even the english word ‘praise’ may not be correct in translation from the original scriptures.

Now, in our tradition, our Sahasranamam puja/prayers are also very similar the ‘praising’ the God/Goddesses, if they are representations of the Saguna Brahmin. This is part of Bhakthi Yoga, and as such primarily to drive out Ahamkaram (wrong ego), as Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji correctly pointed out above. This prepares one’s mind to disassociate from identifying with the body/mind complex and start going towards understanding Paramatma.

Your post about God and free will is interesting. To me, this is an academic exercise. When you practice any religion, such a question does not arise, as the focus is on doing good works, Dharma, or the Commandments, etc. So, practice is what matters. Such discussions are raised mainly by atheists to try to disprove the existence of God.

 

[renuka]

Sri prasad1 Sir,

I do not know much about the scriptures, the traditions and the deep understanding one needs to comment on the practices of other religions to comment. I only know them at the surface level, and from what I know, ‘God demanding Praise’ may not be correct in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I do not know how Islam treats this, as it is more of a prescriptive tradition.

From what I know, this is associated with praying to God, with four types of prayers identified, with one of them definitely associating with prayers ‘to be thankful and praising God’. I do not think that anywhere in their scriptures there is a ‘demand for praise’ from their God.

One has to also understand that even the english word ‘praise’ may not be correct in translation from the original scriptures.

Now, in our tradition, our Sahasranamam puja/prayers are also very similar the ‘praising’ the God/Goddesses, if they are representations of the Saguna Brahmin. This is part of Bhakthi Yoga, and as such primarily to drive out Ahamkaram (wrong ego), as Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji correctly pointed out above. This prepares one’s mind to disassociate from identifying with the body/mind complex and start going towards understanding Paramatma.

Your post about God and free will is interesting. To me, this is an academic exercise. When you practice any religion, such a question does not arise, as the focus is on doing good works, Dharma, or the Commandments, etc. So, practice is what matters. Such discussions are raised mainly by atheists to try to disprove the existence of God.

Dear KRS ji,

In Islam its clearly stated that God is NOT in need of humans but its humans that are in need of Him though He is denoted as praiseworthy it is also stresssed that He is Self Sufficient and not dependent on praises of humans..

Quran(35:15) O people, it is you who stand in need of God ;as for God,He is Self-Sufficient, Immensely Praiseworthy.

 

[KRS]

Thank you for adding the clarification, Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji.

 

[renuka]

Why God would want us to praise and worship Him? Since we assume that a person who demands praise is a pompous big-head. I think there are many out there who secretly wonder about this—afraid to ask the question (lest they be thought unspiritual), but bothered all the same.

God is completely self-sufficient and doesn't need our praise and worship.

"Why praise God?" reminds me of a teacher my daughter had. at the end of the class, all children had to say "we love you, Miss Jones."

Miss Jones may have been the best teacher that ever lived and entirely worthy of praise--but the expression was contrived and mandatory, and therefore could not be sincere.

Dear Prasad Ji,

Why praise God?

Om Bhur Bhuvaḥ Swaḥ
Tat-savitur Vareñyaṃ
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yonaḥ Prachodayāt
General meaning: We meditate on that most adored Supreme Lord, the creator, whose effulgence (divine light) illumines all realms (physical, mental and spiritual). May this divine light illumine our intellect.
Word meaning: Om: The primeval sound; Bhur: the physical body/physical realm; Bhuvah: the life force/the mental realm Suvah: the soul/spiritual realm; Tat: That (God); Savitur: the Sun, Creator (source of all life); Vareñyam: adore; Bhargo: effulgence (divine light); Devasya: supreme Lord; Dhīmahi: meditate; Dhiyo: the intellect; Yo: May this light; Nah: our; Prachodayāt: illumine/inspire.

Taken from Sathya Sai Website.



Dear Prasad ji,
In the Gayatri mantra the word Varenyam means adore as in adore the best of the best.

The element of praise is also seen in the Gayatri mantra.


On daily basis when we see a movie and like the acting of the actor we praise his acting and say " what an excellent actor! An award winning preformance"

When we see a beautiful Miss Universe..we say " what a beautiful woman..totally deserving of the crown"

Even when a dog does a trick or two we praise it by saying " Good boy!" and we proceed to reward it with a snack.

At every level we praise something on daily basis.
Did the actor asked to be praised? Did the Miss Universe asked to be praised?.Did the dog asked to be praised?"
Nope!
Its we who decided to praise them.
The actors acting or the beauty of the Miss Universe or the dogs trick are not dependant on our very existence itself yet we decided to praise them.

Reason? Cos we appreciated something in them.
Likewise humans appreciated nature and the universe and started to wonder what lies beyond all these..who or what created or manifested all these..how does it sustain?

So naturally praise would be the word that comes to our minds just like how we would admire the painting of an artist and praise it..same way we would praise the One who painted existence.


You always say you follow and believe in the Advaita -Brahman concept.
By saying so isnt that praising Advaita too?
Why even subscribe to Advaita -Brahman?
What is it about Advaita concept of Brahman that appeals to you so much?
Is it because the philosophy is worthy of PRAISE?

 

[a-TB]

Dear Prasad Ji,

Why praise God?

Om Bhur Bhuvaḥ Swaḥ
Tat-savitur Vareñyaṃ
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yonaḥ Prachodayāt
General meaning: We meditate on that most adored Supreme Lord, the creator, whose effulgence (divine light) illumines all realms (physical, mental and spiritual). May this divine light illumine our intellect.
Word meaning: Om: The primeval sound; Bhur: the physical body/physical realm; Bhuvah: the life force/the mental realm Suvah: the soul/spiritual realm; Tat: That (God); Savitur: the Sun, Creator (source of all life); Vareñyam: adore; Bhargo: effulgence (divine light); Devasya: supreme Lord; Dhīmahi: meditate; Dhiyo: the intellect; Yo: May this light; Nah: our; Prachodayāt: illumine/inspire.

Taken from Sathya Sai Website.



Dear Prasad ji,
In the Gayatri mantra the word Varenyam means adore as in adore the best of the best.

The element of praise is also seen in the Gayatri mantra.


On daily basis when we see a movie and like the acting of the actor we praise his acting and say " what an excellent actor! An award winning preformance"

When we see a beautiful Miss Universe..we say " what a beautiful woman..totally deserving of the crown"

Even when a dog does a trick or two we praise it by saying " Good boy!" and we proceed to reward it with a snack.

At every level we praise something on daily basis.
Did the actor asked to be praised? Did the Miss Universe asked to be praised?.Did the dog asked to be praised?"
Nope!
Its we who decided to praise them.
The actors acting or the beauty of the Miss Universe or the dogs trick are not dependant on our very existence itself yet we decided to praise them.

Reason? Cos we appreciated something in them.
Likewise humans appreciated nature and the universe and started to wonder what lies beyond all these..who or what created or manifested all these..how does it sustain?

So naturally praise would be the word that comes to our minds just like how we would admire the painting of an artist and praise it..same way we would praise the One who painted existence.


You always say you follow and believe in the Advaita -Brahman concept.
By saying so isnt that praising Advaita too?
Why even subscribe to Advaita -Brahman?
What is it about Advaita concept of Brahman that appeals to you so much?
Is it because the philosophy is worthy of PRAISE?

The meaning of Gayatri Mantra from Sathya Sai site is consistent with other meanings. However it is the meaning for believers in dualism.

I have read detailed exposition as to why dualism ( I am real, the world is real and God is real) that is our experience is not the real truth. There are alternative meanings to the Gayatri Mantra that are Advitic in nature. I do not know enough to articulate such meanings here.

Within duality any imaginations are fine. People take dreams to be real and they make it more real by saying that God came in the dream to build temples. The religions of the world are in dualism only.

So the meaning of the word Varenyam (choosing) will be incorrect because it is interpreted with dualism in mind. Then it can be seem as a praise and such.

Human beings like to praise God they imagine to extract something

 

[a-TB]

Sri prasad1 Sir,

I do not know much about the scriptures, the traditions and the deep understanding one needs to comment on the practices of other religions to comment. I only know them at the surface level, and from what I know, ‘God demanding Praise’ may not be correct in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I do not know how Islam treats this, as it is more of a prescriptive tradition.

From what I know, this is associated with praying to God, with four types of prayers identified, with one of them definitely associating with prayers ‘to be thankful and praising God’. I do not think that anywhere in their scriptures there is a ‘demand for praise’ from their God.

One has to also understand that even the english word ‘praise’ may not be correct in translation from the original scriptures.

Now, in our tradition, our Sahasranamam puja/prayers are also very similar the ‘praising’ the God/Goddesses, if they are representations of the Saguna Brahmin. This is part of Bhakthi Yoga, and as such primarily to drive out Ahamkaram (wrong ego), as Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji correctly pointed out above. This prepares one’s mind to disassociate from identifying with the body/mind complex and start going towards understanding Paramatma.

Your post about God and free will is interesting. To me, this is an academic exercise. When you practice any religion, such a question does not arise, as the focus is on doing good works, Dharma, or the Commandments, etc. So, practice is what matters. Such discussions are raised mainly by atheists to try to disprove the existence of God.

It is hard to separate the teachings from actual practice. Tomorrow if a God through a messenger or directly appear and says "Hey you all humans - from now on I want to make it clear that no prayer will be answered and all your beliefs about Me doing anything to help you is all just your imagination. You are just enjoying the fruits of your Karma. So if you want to pray , go for it. I never am there to reward you or make your problems go away. I take all being to be the same adn do not do favors. So dont ask me for anything because it is futile. Dont trust any godmen if they say anything differently. " .

If this was believed by masses, how many will go to temples and pray god? How many will say "Let me pray to get rid of my ego" .. Probably a tiny number but a vast majority would quit.. That is my guess and I can be proven wrong.

 

[prasad1]

It is hard to separate the teachings from actual practice. Tomorrow if a God through a messenger or directly appear and says "Hey you all humans - from now on I want to make it clear that no prayer will be answered and all your beliefs about Me doing anything to help you is all just your imagination. You are just enjoying the fruits of your Karma. So if you want to pray , go for it. I never am there to reward you or make your problems go away. I take all being to be the same adn do not do favors. So dont ask me for anything because it is futile. Dont trust any godmen if they say anything differently. " .

If this was believed by masses, how many will go to temples and pray god? How many will say "Let me pray to get rid of my ego" .. Probably a tiny number but a vast majority would quit.. That is my guess and I can be proven wrong.

I wish an egoless god would say that.

माला फेरत जुग भया, फिरा न मन का फेर ।​

कर का मन का डार दे, मन का मनका फेर ॥​

MEANING IN HINDI​

ये उन लोगों के ऊपर कटाक्ष है जो धर्मभीरु होते हैं. कबीर कहते हैं कि माला फेरने से कुछ नहीं होता. धर्मभीरुता छोड़ के अपने मन को बदल.

MEANING IN ENGLISH​

This is sarcasm on people who follow religion blindly. Kabir says you spent your life turning the beads of a rosary, but could not turn your own heart. Leave the rosary and try and change the evil in your heart.

पाथर पूजे हरि मिले , तो मैं पूजू पहाड़ .​

घर की चाकी कोई ना पूजे, जाको पीस खाए संसार​

​

MEANING IN HINDI​

कबीर कहते हैं कि यदि पत्थर कि मूर्ती कि पूजा करने से भगवान् मिल जाते तो मैं पहाड़ कि पूजा कर लेता हूँ .
उसकी जगह कोई घर की चक्की की पूजा कोई नहीं करता , जिसमे अन्न पीस कर लोग अपना पेट भरते हैं .

MEANING IN ENGLISH​

Kabir says people worship idols made from stone. If it was possible to reach God this way, he would worship a Hill.

Instead, no one worships home flour mill (chakki) which gives us the flour to eat.

Kabir ke Dohe with meaning in Hindi and English - ShishuWorld

Sant Kabir Das ke Dohe Sant Kabirdas was a weaver by proffession and acted as teacher and a social reformer by the medium of his writings. Sant Kabir ke dohe are full of meaning and teachings. He believed God is one and people just worship Him with different names. Below are some of his famous

www.shishuworld.com

a-TBji post is accurate.

The majority are brainwashed to beg for favors from god. If it is explained that it is futile, No one will pray, and organized religions will fail. If organized religions fail all these moochers who make money from the average person will lose their income. I wish our religious leaders were like Sant Kabirdas and set us straight.

 

[prasad1]

The meaning of Gayatri Mantra from Sathya Sai site is consistent with other meanings. However it is the meaning for believers in dualism.

I have read detailed exposition as to why dualism ( I am real, the world is real and God is real) that is our experience is not the real truth. There are alternative meanings to the Gayatri Mantra that are Advitic in nature. I do not know enough to articulate such meanings here.

Within duality any imaginations are fine. People take dreams to be real and they make it more real by saying that God came in the dream to build temples. The religions of the world are in dualism only.

So the meaning of the word Varenyam (choosing) will be incorrect because it is interpreted with dualism in mind. Then it can be seem as a praise and such.

Human beings like to praise God they imagine to extract something

This is quoting from one of the lectures. Of course, there is an organized religion aspect to it.

Gayatri Mantra was revealed to Sage Vishwamitra who was the Rishi or the seer of this mantra, who gave out this most precious jewel of the Vedas. Truly as His name implies, He is the Mitra, or friend, of the Vishwa or entire universe. Later on, in history, the Gayatri was personified as the all-loving and benevolent Mother Goddess known as Gayatri Devi or Savitri Devi.

Benefits:

1. Sharpens the intellect.
2. Increases learning power, concentration
3. Protects from negativities
4. Makes the mind quiet and balanced
5. Dispels ignorance
6. Improves communication abilities
7. Opens psychic vision
8. Brings direct knowledge of the Eternal truths

Gayatri is the meter. The original prayer is to the Sun god and not to Gayatri Devi

 

[renuka]

The meaning of Gayatri Mantra from Sathya Sai site is consistent with other meanings. However it is the meaning for believers in dualism.

I have read detailed exposition as to why dualism ( I am real, the world is real and God is real) that is our experience is not the real truth. There are alternative meanings to the Gayatri Mantra that are Advitic in nature. I do not know enough to articulate such meanings here.

Within duality any imaginations are fine. People take dreams to be real and they make it more real by saying that God came in the dream to build temples. The religions of the world are in dualism only.

So the meaning of the word Varenyam (choosing) will be incorrect because it is interpreted with dualism in mind. Then it can be seem as a praise and such.

Human beings like to praise God they imagine to extract something

Advaita or Vishistadvaita or Dvaita or Multiplicity or Abrahamic...all have the same potential and there is no correct nor incorrect.

Correct or incorrect is the data we have accumulated in the disc space of our mind.
Only by clearing the cache and browsing data acquired by our perception , then we would get the feel that honestly we are " ignorant" and have no idea of anything...even intelligence would feel over rated and has to be cleared up from our cache...so what remains? Absolutely nothing.
Its this Nothingness that we all try to describe by our personal perception and at one stage we have to admit that we know truly nothing about it and just submit and Be in the moment and Praise that which is beyond perception.

 

[a-TB]

From scripture the teaching is that there in an underlying reality that is non-dual. This not coming from any logic or perception. Duality as the ultimate reality is diametrically opposite to that teaching.

While logic is not the main part of these teachings, logic is very much taken into account. Otherwise there will be no need for any explanation, commentaries and even discussions here.

The so called 'logic' provided with Gayatri Mantra example on this topic (of the thread) has holes, That is all I was commenting on and pointing out.

One is free to believe anything and I have no comments on beliefs.

 

[a-TB]

This is quoting from one of the lectures. Of course, there is an organized religion aspect to it.

Gayatri Mantra was revealed to Sage Vishwamitra who was the Rishi or the seer of this mantra, who gave out this most precious jewel of the Vedas. Truly as His name implies, He is the Mitra, or friend, of the Vishwa or entire universe. Later on, in history, the Gayatri was personified as the all-loving and benevolent Mother Goddess known as Gayatri Devi or Savitri Devi.

Benefits:

1. Sharpens the intellect.
2. Increases learning power, concentration
3. Protects from negativities
4. Makes the mind quiet and balanced
5. Dispels ignorance
6. Improves communication abilities
7. Opens psychic vision
8. Brings direct knowledge of the Eternal truths

Gayatri is the meter. The original prayer is to the Sun god and not to Gayatri Devi

Thank you. However the meaning of the Gayatri Mantra as explained in the youtube segment is conceptual and dualistic to me. Just meditate to be realize oneness could be said about any chanting. Someone explained the advitic meaning once but I do not have the background to appreciate that

 

[prasad1]

From an average person's point of view:

Let us say that you are a student of a brilliant professor.
Your child did not study and prepare for your examination, and the teacher failed the student.
You would advise the student to go back and prepare and retake the examination.
Instead of that advice would you ask the student to sing the praise of the teacher in front of his office, expecting the teacher to change his mind and award the student. An honest teacher would not fall for that,
But that is exactly what we do in religion. We did not prepare (karma) and sing the praise of God to get his Grace. Is god, less honest than that teacher? Do you expect god will grant you your wishes?

If this god is that vain and dishonest is he worth our faith?

 

[renuka]

From an average person's point of view:

Let us say that you are a student of a brilliant professor.
Your child did not study and prepare for your examination, and the teacher failed the student.
You would advise the student to go back and prepare and retake the examination.
Instead of that advice would you ask the student to sing the praise of the teacher in front of his office, expecting the teacher to change his mind and award the student. An honest teacher would not fall for that,
But that is exactly what we do in religion. We did not prepare (karma) and sing the praise of God to get his Grace. Is god, less honest than that teacher? Do you expect god will grant you your wishes?

If this god is that vain and dishonest is he worth our faith?

Karma functions differently from wordly situations.

Ok..in the case above..
The student who fails ..goes back and sings praises of the teacher.
In real life there are a few possible outcomes

1) Teacher tells the student to shut up ,study hard repeat the exam and stop trying to sing praises.
2) Teacher has a change of mind and lets re evaluates the exam paper to see if the student can pass the exam.
3) Teacher asks the student for a bribe and changes the marks and makes student pass.


Now in case of Karma.
If we are not making any changes in our behavior and still commit horrible acts..then we go sing praises of God expecting things to fall in our favor...these are the outcomes.

1)All the " bad" actions still leave karmic imprints to be experienced cos we make no effort to introspect and change.

2) The singing praises of God initially would solely be with motives but it does have conducive vibes on the mind and body.
In the course of time it could have effect on polishing the persons mind to make better choices.
Then behavior modification starts and we improve.
But do all our problems get solved?
Nope! Its just that we become better equipped to handle ups and downs of live with mindfulness and equinamity.

Bhagavad Gita clearly says

Chapter 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized​

TEXT 40
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat

TRANSLATION
In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.



So its clear that the little advancement of singing praises of God even if with personal motives over time can transform a person.

 

[prasad1]

Karma functions differently from wordly situations.

Ok..in the case above..
The student who fails ..goes back and sings praises of the teacher.
In real life there are a few possible outcomes

1) Teacher tells the student to shut up ,study hard repeat the exam and stop trying to sing praises.

That should be the answer, or students should be expelled for trying to influence the outcome.

2) Teacher has a change of mind and lets re evaluates the exam paper to see if the student can pass the exam.
3) Teacher asks the student for a bribe and changes the marks and makes student pass.

An honest teacher would not even consider these alternatives, hopefully, god is better than that. Moreover, god is responsible for 7+ billion humans and numerous other species on this planet and some on other planets as well.

Now in case of Karma.
If we are not making any changes in our behavior and still commit horrible acts..then we go sing praises of God expecting things to fall in our favor...these are the outcomes.

1)All the " bad" actions still leave karmic imprints to be experienced cos we make no effort to introspect and change.

2) The singing praises of God initially would solely be with motives but it does have conducive vibes on the mind and body.
In the course of time it could have effect on polishing the persons mind to make better choices.
Then behavior modification starts and we improve.
But do all our problems get solved?
Nope! Its just that we become better equipped to handle ups and downs of live with mindfulness and equinamity.

What are bad actions? Good and bad actions are purely the relationships of the ego with actions. In Advaita there are actions, but they do not have any qualifications as good and bad. Good and bad actions are purely ascribed by society and morality. That should not play any part in Religion.

Bhagavad Gita clearly says

Chapter 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized​

TEXT 40
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat

TRANSLATION
In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.



So its clear that the little advancement of singing praises of God even if with personal motives over time can transform a person.

I am not asking anyone to change their belief system. My opinions are purely based on my observation.

If God (Brahman) is subtler than space, air, water and is all-pervading and all-powerful then god should be nonjudgemental. Space does not judge you, why should god judge you?
Karma theory stands on its own, it has nothing to do with god.

 

[renuka]

That should be the answer, or students should be expelled for trying to influence the outcome.

An honest teacher would not even consider these alternatives, hopefully, god is better than that. Moreover, god is responsible for 7+ billion humans and numerous other species on this planet and some on other planets as well.


What are bad actions? Good and bad actions are purely the relationships of the ego with actions. In Advaita there are actions, but they do not have any qualifications as good and bad. Good and bad actions are purely ascribed by society and morality. That should not play any part in Religion.

I am not asking anyone to change their belief system. My opinions are purely based on my observation.

If God (Brahman) is subtler than space, air, water and is all-pervading and all-powerful then god should be nonjudgemental. Space does not judge you, why should god judge you?
Karma theory stands on its own, it has nothing to do with god.

You are right..Karma has nothing to do with God.
If one understands this then they start to respect the idea of the Universal Consciousness/God cos It/He does NOT judge nor favors anyone nor hate nor is partial.

Again you are right..there are only actions.
I used the word bad just to make a point..that way we can also say there is no begging nor there is praise...there are ONLY actions.
So why is begging and praising a issue here if in Advaita everything is classified as actions?

Isnt it so futile to be unsettled about actions of another?
This is where I note many hardcore Advaitins have issues with the idea of God and prayer but on the contrary Adi Shankara had no issues praising God in all His stotrams.

Think about it why Adi Shankara was a paradox..Advaitin yet He praised God.
May be the answer lies in the paradox of being both yet neither.

 

[a-TB]

Karma functions differently from wordly situations.

Ok..in the case above..
The student who fails ..goes back and sings praises of the teacher.
In real life there are a few possible outcomes

1) Teacher tells the student to shut up ,study hard repeat the exam and stop trying to sing praises.
2) Teacher has a change of mind and lets re evaluates the exam paper to see if the student can pass the exam.
3) Teacher asks the student for a bribe and changes the marks and makes student pass.


Now in case of Karma.
If we are not making any changes in our behavior and still commit horrible acts..then we go sing praises of God expecting things to fall in our favor...these are the outcomes.

1)All the " bad" actions still leave karmic imprints to be experienced cos we make no effort to introspect and change.

2) The singing praises of God initially would solely be with motives but it does have conducive vibes on the mind and body.
In the course of time it could have effect on polishing the persons mind to make better choices.
Then behavior modification starts and we improve.
But do all our problems get solved?
Nope! Its just that we become better equipped to handle ups and downs of live with mindfulness and equinamity.

Bhagavad Gita clearly says

Chapter 2: Contents of the Gita Summarized​

TEXT 40
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat

TRANSLATION
In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.



So its clear that the little advancement of singing praises of God even if with personal motives over time can transform a person.

To me it appears there is no basis to interpret anything like and call it Karma theory.

Singing praise to get out of fruits of action? That is ludicrous.

Making an effort to improve will not change the outcome of Karma Phala. Period

I looked up the verse. It is not talking about Karma but about Karma yoga which is NOT the same as Karma.

Certainly singing praise of some imagined godhead is NOT Karma yoga.

 

[a-TB]

You are right..Karma has nothing to do with God.
If one understands this then they start to respect the idea of the Universal Consciousness/God cos It/He does NOT judge nor favors anyone nor hate nor is partial.

Again you are right..there are only actions.
I used the word bad just to make a point..that way we can also say there is no begging nor there is praise...there are ONLY actions.
So why is begging and praising a issue here if in Advaita everything is classified as actions?

Isnt it so futile to be unsettled about actions of another?
This is where I note many hardcore Advaitins have issues with the idea of God and prayer but on the contrary Adi Shankara had no issues praising God in all His stotrams.

Think about it why Adi Shankara was a paradox..Advaitin yet He praised God.
May be the answer lies in the paradox of being both yet neither.

Adi Sankara's understanding of God is not the same as the dualistic ideas of God that is pervasive in all religions. Also there are many sankara acharyas and not all stotrams are composed by the original sankara.

 

[prasad1]

Adi Sankara's understanding of God is not the same as the dualistic ideas of God that is pervasive in all religions. Also there are many sankara acharyas and not all stotrams are composed by the original sankara.

We can clearly see that stotras in his name are not actually written by him. For example

The hymn devi aparadha kshamapana stotra is a famous hymn for the goddess which is attributed to sankara. But the author in this hymn says that he is already 85 years old!!

Parityaktaa Devaa Vividha-Vidha-Sevaa-Kulatayaa
Mayaa Pan.caashiiter-Adhikam-Apaniite Tu Vayasi |
Idaaniim Cenmaatas-Tava Yadi Krpaa Na-Api Bhavitaa
Niraalambo Lambodara-Janani Kam Yaami Sharannam ||5||

Meaning:
5.1: (O Mother) Letting go (i.e. Left or Never undertaking) the various Ritualistic Worship servicesof the Devas ...
5.2: ... by me, more than Eighty Five years of my life has passed,
5.3: Even at this moment (nearing death), if Your Gracedo not descend, O Mother (Who is) of the form of Bliss-Consciousness, ...
5.4: ... Where will this Niralamba (one without any support) seek Refuge, O Lambodara Janani (Mother of Lambodara or Ganesha),

There is another hymn called subramanyam bhujangam where the author prays for married life and children etc.

So from such examples it is clear that many books and hymns are under his name but not actually penned by him. Even the mutts do not endorse every text to be by him.
Assisted m Internetby Google.

 

[renuka]

Adi Sankara's understanding of God is not the same as the dualistic ideas of God that is pervasive in all religions. Also there are many sankara acharyas and not all stotrams are composed by the original sankara.

Could you kindly give evidence that Adi Shankara did not write all stotrams?
As far as I know only Bhajo Govindam was a combined effort with him and his shishyas.

Adi Shankara did install the idol at Mukambika too.
He had no issues for murti worship too.