• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Why people idolise and romance heroes, leaders, ideologies despite repeated failures?

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Why people idolise and romance heroes, leaders, ideologies despite repeated failures ??


Bakths, please take this in the right spirit, this is not meant to provoke you all into a massive personal fight. Yes, this subject is a hot button issue, and everyone is debating this across the country and incidentally across the world due to trump. LOL. Pl by all means counter this without name calling etc..


Clearly this govt has been a big failure...in the last 4.5 yrs, has repeatedly made numerous self made mistakes and messed up the economy, foreign policy, communal harmony, etc..


Same thing with communism, despite the failure of communist Russia, Cuba and Eastern Europe, we have a lot of people who still swear by this,


Let's take this govt,..it came on development platform...GDP went down after demo and gst as per the govt own numbers, despite that the bakths swear by this govt.


By their own numbers, the banks are in mega debt, ILFS collapsed, IDBI collapsed, and most of the NBFCs are in deep trouble...so clearly it is a contagion as many of us who know economics had predicted. But bakths swear by this govt and blame congress.. Hello,..dudes what about the disastrous demo and gst...but for our bakths, no way did demo and gst cause all this,....despite the fact that these guys have no clue on economy....similar situation on rupee collapse, fuel prices, current account deficit, falling exports, etc.. It is impossible to accept that their great leaders made a mistake with demo and gst that everyone cautioned them about....I mean how can their leaders fail ?, they know what is good for the country and in the long run...say few generations it will all work out... LOL


And even when the deputy rbi governor says, we will head towards Venezuela situation if govt interferes and takes the rbi reserves, our bakths refuse to believe and swear by this govt. remember my post 2 yrs back that people will be rioting in streets as we will run out of money and food. Anyone...??

not to forget, the many other ill advised policies - RERA, bankruptcy law, food pricing policy, etc. And the issues related to governance, cbi infighting and rebellion, enmasse rebellion by rbi governor and employees union...etc...


Now with the development agenda in a mess, the ram mandir issue has started just before elections. For god sake, how can anyone believe that it is correct to demolish a mosque and build a temple on top of it ??? But our bakths believe that this is not only okay but their birth right..


So why are bakths unable to accept that this govt has failed, and also believe that King Babur was at fault 500 yrs back in building the mosque by demolishing the temple ??? LOL


Let's analyse this terrible situation in detail..


1. Hate wrap - hatred is the #1 reason for people uniting together behind an ideology. For eg, communism started with unrelenting hatred against royals, imperialists, and rich aristocrats. Same with the trump group, they are united in their hatred against blacks, immigrants, Jews, etc.. Similarly the right wing group in india is united in their hatred towards Muslims. Bakths uniformly hate Muslims in india in some form or the other, and that congress and regional parties betrayed the majority cause.


2. Bubble wrap - all of us live in a bubble wrap of our own. That is each of us have our own world view built due to personal experiences and influences from our parents, friends, colleagues, etc..For eg, people from keralam will generally be disposed to either communism or congress world view due to predominant view in the ground. They will believe only the views confirmed by people who live in the same bubble wrap world. Trump supporters don't believe anything from the so called liberal media, they will only believe fox news which confirm their world view. Similarly the bakths will only believe their own right wing sources about any of the govt actions, not even the Harvard economists or a highly qualified professional like the deputy rbi governor... LOL.


3. Time wrap - people who have lived with these views and influences and hatred for a long time - will never be open to change. So communists in keralam will never agree that communism has failed despite all keralites working in gulf or other states, and will blame the Russians and Cubans for not knowing how to implement the true principles of communism, LOL. Similarly, the bakths will never believe that this govt has failed. Hey common guys, Give them another term, they can further mess up....oops, they will fix this mess... I mean who is the alternative...


4. History wrap - people love the idea of strong leaders, strong father figures, the mythical heroes who can defeat great enemies and liberate their people. And this is ingrained in our DNA. So they see strong leadership on bjp side and a weak leadership on congress / coalition, and they are drawn to strength despite going backwards in terms of development.


There you go guys...some of the key reasons why people love to idolise leaders !!!
 
Last edited:

a-TB

Active member
Do you think you are not in any of those 'wraps'? Your writing speaks for itself, pal
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Good post.

1. We idolize people who are successful, we respect success.
Warren Buffet, Asim Premji, Mukesh Ambani etc. It also helps that they are generally nice Human beings.

2. We idolize people in public eye, again we are enamored by their success and their charm, we even overlook their failings.
Amitab Bachan, ShahRook Khan, Rajinikant etc.

3. Some idolize A Politician because they believe in that politician and their false promises.
Jaya Lalitha, Trump, Hitler, etc.

4. Some want to idolize a person even if he is criminal.
Veerappan, Sanjay Dutt etc.

5. Then there are Modi Bhakt, I have no clue about that.

You rightly said all these demi-gods have feet of clay. Some fall hard, others are pushed hard, but they all get pushed eventually.

Sometimes they get revived by another like Julias Ceaser by Marc Antony.
Or Sardar Patel and Bose getting revived by RSS, BJP etc as a foil to Mahatma Gandhi or Jawaharlal Nehru.

UP government is replacing the world famous Taj Mahal just because it was built by another Hindustani (but non-Hindu).
 
Last edited:

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Do you think you are not in any of those 'wraps'? Your writing speaks for itself, pal
BIG NO. I don't like to talk or boast about myself, just responding to your post.


1. Not everyone spend their lives hating others. I do not hate people, including Bakhts. I dont hate the rss or bjp but I absolutely do not agree with the Muslim hating agenda, the Gujarat riots etc.. Yes, I know they were acquitted by the court but the fact they all refused to apologise to the Muslim community for their deep loss is not correct and unconscionable.


2. Not everyone is in a bubble world where they refuse to listen to others views with an open mind, I hear both sides of the arguments and listen to everyone's opinion. For eg, I hear about a lot of trumps supporters opinion but I do not agree with them. I agree with the democrats..there can be no nation and prosperity that can be built on racism, sufferings of the minorities. howsoever republicans can be successful with the economy and jobs. Similarly I listen to all the Bakhts opinions, I agree with some and disagree with a lot.


3. Not everyone lives hating others for years and decades. Neither did I.


4. Yes we all like strong leaders but most importantly good and just leaders.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
5. Then there are Modi Bhakt, I have no clue about that.

UP government is replacing the world famous Taj Mahal just because it was built by another Hindustani (but non-Hindu).

LOL. Trump supporters are united in their hate ideology but they have a clear agenda and they hold leaders accountable however disgusting their hate agenda is.

The problem with the Bakhts are, they don't want to hold the leaders accountable on anything. They just want to idolise their leaders. Their leaders can do NO wrong and they will support them even if the original development agenda is a total mess.

i have yet to see a bakth who has criticised the govt in any of the mistakes so far !!!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Most worryingly the Bakhts will not accept any criticism of their leaders despite calling that we are a great democracy and all have their opinions, lol. They will outshout, out criticise, out shame any and all opposition.

Everybody else is wrong, rbi governor and deputy governor are wrong, cbi chief is wrong, Supreme Court justices who came out on the media calling out the govt are wrong, all stalwart economists who opposed demo are wrong, Raghuram Rajan is wrong, india cannot be compared to Argentina, media is wrong and deliberately targeting them, political parties are on vendetta, people who support other parties are wrong, Mallya and Nirav Modi are congress fault, Chidambaram is controlling the Rbi and cbi and pretty much the entire bureaucracy and creating rebellion against the govt. (one of the bjp spokesperson actually said this in one of the tv debates...lol), everyone is wrong except the govt.

no one one can criticise the lack of jobs, the collapse of the economy, the debt contagion, rupee collapse, petrol at 90 Rs..lol
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Most worryingly the Bakhts will not accept any criticism of their leaders despite calling that we are a great democracy and all have their opinions, lol. They will outshout, out criticise, out shame any and all opposition.

Everybody else is wrong, rbi governor and deputy governor are wrong, cbi chief is wrong, Supreme Court justices who came out on the media calling out the govt are wrong, all stalwart economists who opposed demo are wrong, Raghuram Rajan is wrong, india cannot be compared to Argentina, media is wrong and deliberately targeting them, political parties are on vendetta, people who support other parties are wrong, Mallya and Nirav Modi are congress fault, Chidambaram is controlling the Rbi and cbi and pretty much the entire bureaucracy and creating rebellion against the govt. (one of the bjp spokesperson actually said this in one of the tv debates...lol), everyone is wrong except the govt.

no one one can criticise the lack of jobs, the collapse of the economy, the debt contagion, rupee collapse, petrol at 90 Rs..lol

Welcome to Modi-Raj, it is like Ram-Rajya with a twist.
In Ram Rajya you criticize Ram and he banishes his wife, In Modi-Raj if you criticize Modi, they hand your head in a platter.
 

a-TB

Active member
BIG NO. I don't like to talk or boast about myself, just responding to your post.


1. Not everyone spend their lives hating others. I do not hate people, including Bakhts. I dont hate the rss or bjp but I absolutely do not agree with the Muslim hating agenda, the Gujarat riots etc.. Yes, I know they were acquitted by the court but the fact they all refused to apologise to the Muslim community for their deep loss is not correct and unconscionable.


2. Not everyone is in a bubble world where they refuse to listen to others views with an open mind, I hear both sides of the arguments and listen to everyone's opinion. For eg, I hear about a lot of trumps supporters opinion but I do not agree with them. I agree with the democrats..there can be no nation and prosperity that can be built on racism, sufferings of the minorities. howsoever republicans can be successful with the economy and jobs. Similarly I listen to all the Bakhts opinions, I agree with some and disagree with a lot.


3. Not everyone lives hating others for years and decades. Neither did I.


4. Yes we all like strong leaders but most importantly good and just leaders.
Name calling, focusing on personalities instead of ideas are symptoms of closed mind. Anyone can claim anything but name calling like Bhakth itself reveals the wrap , I am sorry to say
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Name calling, focusing on personalities instead of ideas are symptoms of closed mind. Anyone can claim anything but name calling like Bhakth itself reveals the wrap , I am sorry to say
First off, if you read the OP, it is more focussed on the "why" people idolise leaders. It does not focus on any personality in specific. It focus on the reasons, etc..

Second, calling the supporters in general as Bakhts is not derogatory. Also I am not calling anyone in this forum as bakth. I see a lot of people on social media calling themselves proudly as Bakhts !!!

as long as the counters are civil, no need to say sorry. I am happy to debate back and forth.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
First off, if you read the OP, it is more focussed on the "why" people idolise leaders. It does not focus on any personality in specific. It focus on the reasons, etc..

Second, calling the supporters in general as Bakhts is not derogatory. Also I am not calling anyone in this forum as bakth. I see a lot of people on social media calling themselves proudly as Bakhts !!!





as long as the counters are civil, no need to say sorry. I am happy to debate back and forth.


Case in point Ram Bhakt Sri Hanuman, I do not think that is insulting Hanuman.

On the other hand, Ravan Bhakt x-aa might be insulting to x-aa, but Mandodari may not have felt insulted.
 
Last edited:

a-TB

Active member
First off, if you read the OP, it is more focussed on the "why" people idolise leaders. It does not focus on any personality in specific. It focus on the reasons, etc..

Second, calling the supporters in general as Bakhts is not derogatory. Also I am not calling anyone in this forum as bakth. I see a lot of people on social media calling themselves proudly as Bakhts !!!

as long as the counters are civil, no need to say sorry. I am happy to debate back and forth.
People who idolize anyone typically have lost their ability to reason. They are blind supporters. In this context use of Bhakth is derogatory even if it is not aimed at anyone here. It is same as calling someone stupid.

The problem is that Post 1 focuses on stupid people and why they are stupid instead of discussion about reasons why some support is not correct. That will be a focus on reasons.

As one of the members says often - "please perceive" ( that discussion about stupid people itself is being in a wrap.)

I know you did not use the word stupid anywhere but I used it to highlight the point being made in post 1
 

prasad1

Well-known member
There are lots of Trump fan who would not admit to supporting him, but secretly have Trump-like opinions and Vote for Trump or his surrogate.

So they secretly idolize trump. They think they have the ability to reason.

Sometimes idolizing defies reason.
 

Vaagmi

Well-known member
Why people idolise and romance heroes, leaders, ideologies despite repeated failures ??
Bakths, please take this in the right spirit, this is not meant to provoke you all into a massive personal fight. Yes, this subject is a hot button issue, and everyone is debating this across the country and incidentally across the world due to trump. LOL.
Let's take this govt,..it came on development platform...GDP went down after demo and gst as per the govt own numbers, despite that the bakths swear by this govt.
What a rant!!

By their own numbers, the banks are in mega debt, ILFS collapsed, IDBI collapsed, and most of the NBFCs are in deep trouble...so clearly it is a contagion as many of us who know economics had predicted. But bakths swear by this govt and blame congress.. Hello,..dudes what about the disastrous demo and gst...but for our bakths, no way did demo and gst cause all this,....despite the fact that these guys have no clue on economy....similar situation on rupee collapse, fuel prices, current account deficit, falling exports, etc.. It is impossible to accept that their great leaders made a mistake with demo and gst that everyone cautioned them about....I mean how can their leaders fail ?, they know what is good for the country and in the long run...say few generations it will all work out... LOL
I do not hold a candle to any leader here. I know there are good and bad leaders. I know that good leaders also commit mistakes at times. In the governance of a country as complicated as India, it takes time for things to fall in place and I am ready to wait giving the leader time before pressing the button. But this rant borders on uncouth outpouring.
--the banks are in mega debt. Yes.
--the ILFS and IDBI collapsed. Yes.
--NBFCs needs crutches to stand up. Yes.
Not that it all happened just in the last 4 years. To believe so will be naive. And the reasons why this happened over the decades is well known and well analysed and documented and are available for everyone to read. But intellectuals have to have a scape goat so that they can celebrate their knowledge and its find. And the red hue shines better than other hues on their shawls. And call every one else a bhakth-another trendy name added to the numerous others including the classic and revolutionary bourgeois.

OMG!!! What is happening to these "intellectuals"? They have a vocabulary which has only catch words from the 1960s to use and snigger. Poor guys.

Let us discuss the reasons if Demo has flipped and fell flat. First decide whether it has failed at all. Talk economics and not street language like "the unlettered poor flower seller lost a thousand rupees because she had two notes of 500 each". That is nonsense. And GST. Why this hurry to pass a judgment that it is a failure so early? When it is working well in other countries what is special here that will make it a failure? If it is good, let us make it work here and derive the benefits.

And even when the deputy rbi governor says, we will head towards Venezuela situation if govt interferes and takes the rbi reserves, our bakths refuse to believe and swear by this govt. remember my post 2 yrs back that people will be rioting in streets as we will run out of money and food. Anyone...??
There can always be at least two views on any economic issue. Why this aversion to try the other one? And holding a gun to my head threatening me with hyperinflation of the Venezuela type is a game. And plainly I do not like this game being played with political score card. Stupid! it is people's welfare and aspirations and not ........


not to forget, the many other ill advised policies - RERA, bankruptcy law, food pricing policy, etc. And the issues related to governance, cbi infighting and rebellion, enmasse rebellion by rbi governor and employees union...etc...
Is RERA, bankruptcy law amendments, food pricing are all bad? WOW. Well it is your right. But I do not think so. Period.


Now with the development agenda in a mess, the ram mandir issue has started just before elections. For god sake, how can anyone believe that it is correct to demolish a mosque and build a temple on top of it ??? But our bakths believe that this is not only okay but their birth right..
Development agenda is not the exclusive property of any one party. It is an eternal agenda of the people of the country. Ram Mandir is an issue involving several emotional undercurrents. Every political party here is exploiting it to the hilt for votes.


So why are bakths unable to accept that this govt has failed, and also believe that King Babur was at fault 500 yrs back in building the mosque by demolishing the temple ??? LOL
"intellectuals" may think that the Govt has failed and may wonder why Bhakts are not agreeing. But there are others like me who believe that the Government is sincerely trying and has not failed.

I wrap up with this. LOL. No further wraps and rants.
 
Last edited:

Jaykay767

Well-known member
People who idolize anyone typically have lost their ability to reason. They are blind supporters. In this context use of Bhakth is derogatory even if it is not aimed at anyone here. It is same as calling someone stupid.

The problem is that Post 1 focuses on stupid people and why they are stupid instead of discussion about reasons why some support is not correct. That will be a focus on reasons.

As one of the members says often - "please perceive" ( that discussion about stupid people itself is being in a wrap.)

I know you did not use the word stupid anywhere but I used it to highlight the point being made in post 1
Not at all !!! if that is the case, any attempt to understand why the left in india is still supporting communism even though it is a major failure in Russia Cuba and Eastern Europe will be called derogatory !!!!

lets take the trump supporters. For them, right or wrong, immigration is the biggest issue and they want it stopped in anyway possible, so they support trump even if he is openly racist, sexist, etc.. They are not bothered about the right way of doing it and democrats unfortunately did not offer a proper alternative or communicate during the 2016 elections, So the support is NOT without reason. They have their reasons, just that we don't agree with them,

similalry the Bakhts have their reasons for continuing to support this govt despite failures. My post is to understand the why? So the OP is definitely not meant to call the Bakhts stupid directly or indirectly.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
What a rant!!



I do not hold a candle to any leader here. I know there are good and bad leaders. I know that good leaders also commit mistakes at times. In the governance of a country as complicated as India, it takes time for things to fall in place and I am ready to wait giving the leader time before pressing the button. But this rant borders on uncouth outpouring.
--the banks are in mega debt. Yes.
--the ILFS and IDBI collapsed. Yes.
--NBFCs needs crutches to stand up. Yes.
Not that it all happened just in the last 4 years. To believe so will be naive. And the reasons why this happened over the decades is well known and well analysed and documented and are available for everyone to read. But intellectuals have to have a scape goat so that they can celebrate their knowledge and its find. And the red hue shines better than other hues on their shawls. And call every one else a bhakth-another trendy name added to the numerous others including the classic and revolutionary bourgeois.

OMG!!! What is happening to these "intellectuals"? They have a vocabulary which has only catch words from the 1960s to use and snigger. Poor guys.

Let us discuss the reasons if Demo has flipped and fell flat. First decide whether it has failed at all. Talk economics and not street language like "the unlettered poor flower seller lost a thousand rupees because she had two notes of 500 each". That is nonsense. And GST. Why this hurry to pass a judgment that it is a failure so early? When it is working well in other countries what is special here that will make it a failure? If it is good, let us make it work here and derive the benefits.



There can always be at least two views on any economic issue. Why this aversion to try the other one? And holding a gun to my head threatening me with hyperinflation of the Venezuela type is a game. And plainly I do not like this game being played with political score card. Stupid! it is people's welfare and aspirations and not ........




Is RERA, bankruptcy law amendments, food pricing are all bad? WOW. Well it is your right. But I do not think so. Period.




Development agenda is not the exclusive property of any one party. It is an eternal agenda of the people of the country. Ram Mandir is an issue involving several emotional undercurrents. Every political party here is exploiting it to the hilt for votes.




"intellectuals" may think that the Govt has failed and may wonder why Bhakts are not agreeing. But there are others like me who believe that the Government is sincerely trying and has not failed.

I wrap up with this. LOL. No further wraps and rants.
First off, your unnecessary comments on rant and uncouth actually borders on uncouth outpouring !! Now let's seriously discuss without calling names of each other posts !!!

second the economy is in an absolute bad state. Media is not covering the issues in detail and that's causing a lot of confusion. Do you know many of the farmer riotings a were not covered by the media?, even those that happened in Delhi 2 'months back. maha and Mp farmers rioted for months and months??, these were not covered by the mainstream media, so most don't know.

third, in a country like india where most of the traders are uneducated and come from long held small family businesses, they neither know how to read or write English nor Hindi nor their local mother tongue. So how can you expect them to install the gst system and start filing multiple returns every month,?? Many have shut shop or reduced their operations. For eg, none of the mobile operators like Samsung, etc,, will not give their products to any traders without gst registration as they cannot claim the credits later. So the small traders who were earlier selling these phones are now out of business !!!

fourth, let's understand why demo is such a economic disaster. Let's say, there is a textile manufacturer who has taken 500 cr loan from a bank and started his operations. He manufactures 50 cr clothes every month and sends to distributors who in turn send to the shop keepers. Post the demo, the business sentiment collapsed and people simply stopped buying for months and months. They did not buy anything except for the essentials. So if the people stopped buying, how can the shop keepers sell clothes?, so they returned the unsold clothes back to distributor who in turn send back to manufacturer. Now how will the manufacturer service his bank loan when he has NO sales and hence no profit ?? So now you know why the bank NPA went up? Similarly the builders defaulted as even people with white money stopped buying houses, flats leading to builders defaulting in their bank loans. So just extrapolate this to all businesses across the country. And the manufacturer closed his business and let go his employees. How can he pay employees when he has no sales and no profit?

fifth, as per govt and quoted in cnbc, the NPA went from 2.5 lakh cr to 7 lakh cr after demo and then went to 12 lakh cr after gst and then now stands at 18'lakh cr !!! Clearly reflected in the banks debt, ilfs collapse, idbi collapse..

sixth. So how you know why the govt wants to tax more and more for fuel prices, raid Rbi reserves and service this gigantic debt !!! Fuel prices have not come down despite crude coming down to 70$ from 86 $.

Seventh, now you know why the crazy idea was floated that the depositors money will be taken and instead shares will be given to them..lol though it was later shot down,

Eigth, Rera is over regulating the real estate market and you can see it has not recovered even now. Bankruptcy law - in business cash flow will always be inconsistent, so businesses sometimes pay the loan after skipping payment 2 or 3 times, As per this law, you need to declare these good businesses immediately as bankrupt and start proceedings without any grace period. So good businesses are going out of business due this I'll conceived law.

please realise there is NO money with the govt, all the money is lost in managing this 18 lakh cr debt... Now you know why deputy rbi gov said if we lose this last reserve, we will collapse like Venezuela !!!

now you all decide in this dire crisis, should we have the RBI led by professional bankers manage the NPa mess or the govt led by political interest ??
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
And for the food pricing policy, when there is NO money, when the treasury aka Tijori is empty, how can you pay twice the price for the produce ?? So with this ill conceived policy, the govt is further incurring debt as they are buying at 2X price and selling it at X !!!!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
This is precisely why i said, we are all in our own bubble world. Liberals get their news and opinions from liberal news media, and conservatives from the Fox News. Why because, they each distrust each other's media !!

similarly the right wing media outlets in india continue to say demo is a success and misleading the people.
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
And lastly this is not a mistake, it is a catastrophic disaster.

just imagine if people wake up in a few weeks and see the banks have collapsed and their retirement savings are gone....because the govt took the last reserves from RBI and gave it to the NBFCs to revive the economy before elections....all the money is gone...sayonara...

then they will come to the streets and start stoning the banks and rioting...like what happened in the case of global trust bank and uti64 !!!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
This is like giving money to the stock market hero who has lost 18 lakh crores but will get all of it back only if we loan him another 3.5 lakh crores only to find all of it gone...spoof !!!!LOL.

now up know why is said, acharya may have just saved us from this tsunami !!!!
 

Jaykay767

Well-known member
Please also note the RBI is fighting to save your money deposited in the banks !!! The govts is not bothered about bank collapse, they are worried about NBFCs collapse as that will bring down the entire rural sector.

RBI is focussed on saving the banking system and not the NBFCs !!! The 3.5 lakh cr is the reserve that will save our banks in the event of a major default, and our money !!!!

now you know why both are at loggerheads. So for all of our sake, the banks should not collapse, and hence all of you should support RBI and not the govt !!!
 
Top